YouSaid · the spoken record

Robert Kagan

lines on the record: 39
first: 2024-06-05
most recent: 2024-06-05
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Well, I'm not going to get into that, and I don't know whether that's going to happen or not. But honestly, I would be, I mean, right now, I'm content with him losing.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My prediction is the party will not continue to be in its present form. It will split into its respective wings. One is bigger than the other, but even the Trump wing is not big enough to compete by itself. So that would be my hope if Trump loses.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the movement is there, obviously. The question is can it find another leader like Trump? And I think that it's more likely to splinter among different leaders attempting to seize the leadership of this particular group. Trump is clearly special in the way that he's united all these people. He is a quasi-religious figure for some of the more extreme white Christian movements. I don't think anybody else automatically steps into such a role. So, you know, at the end of the day, if we can get past this election, I'm generally mildly optimistic about the future. I think we will continue to have crises. I think as we talked about before, it'll be a very bumpy road after a Biden victory. But I think the Republican Party at that point will split.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Do in the project 2025 report of the Heritage Foundation. Others have made Stephen Miller is talking about what they would do about immigration. I think there is ample evidence to fear that our system will be badly destroyed by a Trump presidency.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Into all kinds of things that could be happening locally. You know, there are these vigilante groups that are waiting to start pushing people around and committing acts of violence. And they're frustrated only by the understanding that the government is opposed to them. What if the government is not opposed to them? We lived in America for a well over a century with violence being committed against black people on a routine basis throughout the South with the federal government having nothing to do with it, having nothing to say about it, not condemning it, not attempting to prevent it. We could go back to that. And I think that doesn't even require Trump to do anything. It only requires him not to do anything. And I think if you look at the people who are going to surround him in a second term, I think we have reason to be very worried. They've spelled out a lot of what they're going to do.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Going to be an obstacle to anything Trump does in a second term. And Congress is not going to be an obstacle if it's a Republican-controlled Congress. And even if it's a split Congress, Congress does not have the power to prevent the president from doing a lot of things, including misusing the U.S. military, which is something that he's already talking about when it comes, for instance, to the deportation of millions of immigrants, which could not be accomplished without both probably the National Guard and perhaps, as Trump himself has said, the US military. So the prospect for him really running rampant over the Constitution, it seems to me to be very clear. It sort of astonishing that anyone like me has to make this point since Trump makes it himself every single day. So I think we will be in a situation where the president is misusing the justice system for his own purposes. And that doesn't even get...”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, you know, no one can say for sure, but I think he certainly is very clear about some of the things that he intends to do. He clearly has said very openly that he will use the justice system to do to his enemies what he is insisting they've done to him. I think his contempt for the justice system will be obvious, so we will have a president who's in charge who has wields the most power of anybody in the world in contempt of our justice system. We already have seen that the Supreme Court in the United States today is totally corrupt. We have at least one but probably more than one justices who actually are so with Trump that they would fly the insurrectionist post January 6th flag. So we now know that the court is not.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, and again, you know, we are suffering in America from a failure of imagination, but it's a failure of imagination that we've already paid the price for. No one could have imagined that someone like Donald Trump could win an election, let alone win an election, attempt to overthrow the government, get renominated and really be the leader of the party after, as I say, attempting to overthrow the government. So we've broken through all kinds of norms and understandings about the way things are supposed to work. And so I think we need to open our imagination a little bit given where we see things are going. And the most important part of this, and it's being demonstrated right now by the response to this verdict, is that the Republicans are literally unmoored from our justice system, and therefore I don't know what is supposed to constrain Trump or any”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In the sense that a Republican state could declare that they don't recognize the legitimacy of the federal government because the election was fraudulent and could kick out government officials from the state, et cetera, et cetera. What a federal government under a Biden administration might do about that, I think is hard to know. But I could definitely see several states engaging either in nullification or secession on these grounds. Because we're already seeing that to some extent. A lot of what Texas is doing right now is a form of nullification and even sort of an”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of sort of local private violence in our country, which I think is very real. We all know there are a lot of guns in America. There are a lot of militias in America. There are already sort of vigilante groups out there. And I think we would definitely see some of that. And they certainly won't be discouraged by Donald Trump as just as he didn't discourage anyone from getting violent on January 6th, to say the least. So I think he may even call for resistance. Beyond that, the question is, what happens in the States? And this is something where I think people have sort of forgotten that even though we haven't had a secession or a threat of secession since the 19th century, and even though the nullification crisis that we think of as in the 19th century, both of those options are available.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, some of what's going to happen is predictable if Biden wins. And the first thing that's predictable is that Trump is going to declare fraud. And he's already promised to do that. But also, it's worth remembering. He's declared fraud in every election, every presidential election he's run in, including the one he won. He said that 2016 was fraudulent because he actually won a majority of the popular vote as well. So he's going to declare fraud. And this time, the Republican Party is not going to kind of mumble and hope that that issue goes away. This time they're going to be with him. I believe that there are going to be significant figures in Republican Party at the top of the Republican Party who will agree or claim to agree that they think that the election was fraudulent. And then the question is, so then what happens then? Others have written and studied the sort of possibility.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's just extraordinary. That's just extraordinary. I mean, there is a real anti-Semitic core to the Trump movement, and it's quite striking to me that American Jews, any American Jew, would not understand that. But again, as you say, there are other issues, other factors involved for someone like Steve Schwartzmann.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That many people may feel. And by the way, I didn't even talk about the tax breaks that Trump is promising people or the energy policies that he's promising to oil producers. So what you're seeing is money following power. And I think you could go down the list of reasons why for individual Americans, they could say, well, you know, it's not such a terrible thing for me if this is where things go. And I think that's the truly horrifying aspect of this that I think even today we're still unwilling to look at.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I mean, that's my question Do they? I think there are certainly, let's let the minority polling question aside. There are certainly many white Americans who believe that whatever happens in the system, they're going to be fine. And my sort of favorite example of that is the comments that Jamie Diamond made in Davos at the beginning of the year when he said that Trump was kind of right about immigration. He was kind of right about NATO. And he also basically said we're good either way. You know, my company's good either way. I'm good either way. And I think that that's true. I think that people like Jamie Diamond will be fine in a Trump dictatorship if they do what they need to do to keep the dictator happy. And so it's not just complacency. I wish it were just complacency. I feel like there are also a perceptions of interest.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“By some police officer inappropriately? Does he think that he will condemn that police officer or does he think that he will cheer him? So my explanation for why people who should know better don't is often that they may be so preoccupied in a way they feel too secure in the situation. I think if they really knew what Trump stood for, and I don't know why they don't because it's very apparent, they would understand that they're the first to lose blacks, Muslims, Asian Americans, Hispanic Americans are definitely going to be losers in the new system. And that they don't see that there's a lot of things that I don't understand. I don't understand why average Republicans who are my neighbors who happily voted for John McCain and Mitt Romney.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I don't know exactly what explains it, and there are all kinds of theories, and I'm not going to articulate them because they wind up being sort of disparaging, and I don't want to get into that. First of all, I do want to say these are polls. Come back to me when the vote occurs. And we're also still talking about a distinct minority. My I do believe that Trump is a white supremacist movement. That's how he introduced himself to this country. And by the way, I'm glad to see that President Biden is out reminding black voters that Trump introduced himself to the American political scene in 2011 running on the berther conspiracy, which was to say that the first American black president was actually not an American. And they need to remember that. And they also need to think about how would Trump respond the next time some black is shot.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Barriers and all the institutions and do what they want to see done, and they're willing to devote themselves to that person, regardless of what that person does or says. Figure out a word for it, but it's not simply authoritarianism. It's not simply autocracy because it does have this devotion to a single leader that is critical to it. So I don't care what you call it, but it is fascism.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And that is what fascism is. It is the popular aversion to liberalism, if you will. Mussolini was very clear, said it very openly, that he was running against liberal democracy, that he was fighting against liberal democracy, and he hoped others would join the way. He saw it as an international activity, and he was very frank about what he was trying to do. And so I think the problem with fascism now is that when people say, well, they're not speaking German, they don't have a funny mustache, they're not marching in Goostep, so therefore they're not fascist. But I think if we understand the term, as you were suggesting, to mean that people have decided that democracy is too messy, that liberalism is not serving their purposes, and they need a person to crash through all the”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, you're talking to the guy who wrote that Trump was a fascist in May of 2016. So you got the wrong audience for that question. And while I do think we should be cautious about the use of fascism, I don't think we should be too cautious. And for this reason, fascism is a product to some extent of living in a popular age. And it may to some extent even be the only actual alternative to democracy in a popular age, by which I mean, at least since the late 19th century and certainly throughout the 20th century and beyond, politics in all nations has become more about the populace rather than, you know, you're not going to have a monarchy now. What's the alternative democracy is not a king. Whoever is going to bring an alternative democracy has to bring, has to claim to speak for the people in some way.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Had the same style of sort of crude, angry, you know, defying norms, being what Daniel Bell referred to as a wrecker. And that has its appeal to these anti-liberal groups because they need someone who will tear down the existing system which they feel is oppressing them. They see these people as champions. And even when I went back to look at the colorful character, racist murderer named Pitchpork Ben Tillman, who was a U.S. senator after Reconstruction and really was a big factor in white supremacy, he also behaved in that way. And it also phonally, he was actually a pretty well-off guy who tried to speak for the people, etc. So this type of demagogue is also pretty typical. I personally think Trump himself is unique as an individual because His particular narcissism and solipsism is really quite extraordinary.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think that that's a good question because, of course, he does represent certainly the groups that have come to support him represent continuity in American politics. And what's happened is that these groups, which have been marginalized, are now dominant in the party. And so that is part of the tradition. And the kind of leader or demagogue, whatever word you want to use that Trump is is also pretty much in the tradition. I was very interested when I went back to sort of research this book reading accounts by liberal political scientists like Richard Hofstadter or Daniel Bell in the 1950s and 60s writing about the McCarthy movement or the John Birch Society, etc. And how similar and also about the particular leader, about McCarthy himself, for instance, or about George Wallace himself.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Anti-liberal forces that had really been squelched since the Second World War. And those people found a foothold. Now, it's important to remember, and this is something I think this is where American liberals and Democrats tend to have a hazy memory, those people were very unhappy at the end with Ronald Reagan. And really, within a few years, Patrick Buchanan was running against the Reagan establishment and then ultimately left the party. And I think what we're seeing are a lot of people who are disaffected even in the Reagan years, people like Josh Hawley, who now talk about the uniparty as if there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats. He was talking about the Reagan Republican Party. I think we have to understand that what is taken over now used to be a kind of fringe minority even in the Reagan years. But does Reagan bear responsibility for bringing them in?”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I've even gone back to question some of my colleagues who are not necessarily hardcore conservatives, but were sort of in the Reagan Revolution. And then I look back on some of the policies they were recommending domestically, which seemed fine to me, I now think I'm beginning to wonder what the core motivation was, you know, because I remember what the justifications were at the time. But now I worry that there was probably more to it than that and that there were racial issues and ethnic issues and other anti-liberal factors at work. So yeah, I don't know, I wouldn't, I'm not sure I want to know what Max is reevaluating. I'm not sure I would change my views about Reagan's foreign policy, of which there's much to criticize. But in terms of his effect, there's no question that he brought back into power for the first time.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think my reevaluation is in the book in the sense that, and I don't want to profess innocence about this. I was a younger person at the time, but nevertheless, I think that I was inadequately aware of just who I was in the government with to some extent. And I blame myself for that because I wasn't sensitive enough to these issues. I, of course, as you suggested, I'm a foreign policy guy. I spend my whole life writing and thinking about foreign policy. I vote on presidents based on my views of their foreign policy. I voted, which has often led me to vote Democratic. I mean, I voted for Al Gore. I voted for Bill Clinton. And so I'm not normally focused on domestic issues. And I think in retrospect that that was a mistake. And I didn't realize as well as I should have what this was all about.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“They hope the behavior would eventually come to approximate more and more those principles. And nobody put that better than Abraham Lincoln, who said that he didn't use the word liberalism in that case, but what he was saying was the principle of declaration need to become ever deeper and ever wider in our system. And that is exactly what's happening. And that's why we're having the rebellion that we're having today because of the success of liberalism. I think that is what is at the core of why we are a liberal society. It's the core of why minorities have the vote, have political power, but we must recognize that this has been a battle from the very beginning.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of the founders. The founders knew that they were being hypocritical. It's not an excuse for them. No one was a bigger hypocrite than Thomas Jefferson. And by the way, everybody knew it at the time. Alexander Hamilton has this wonderful, I'm paraphrasing this statement where he says, it's interesting to see the people who have the Bill of Rights in one hand and a whip in the other. And he was referring quite obviously to Thomas Jefferson. So they knew that there was a contradiction and they hoped that that contradiction would sort of fade naturally. They hoped slavery would disappear sort of naturally. And they thought it would, actually, in the late 18th century and for a variety of reasons it didn't. It actually grew in importance. Were at odds with American behavior at the time.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the 1619 project says a lot of different things, and some of them I agree with, and some of them, the point that you just mentioned, I think is historically inaccurate, but it's not the core. You know, insofar as the 1619 project is saying that race has always been a core factor in shaping American society, both negatively and positively, but certainly negatively. I think that is absolutely true. And I think the efforts by Republicans and conservatives to try to cover that over, to go back and try to rewrite history, to sort of take the race issue out of it, take the fact that America has been a systematically racist country since its founding. And I think 1619 made a contribution in that. Where I think I differ from 1619 is in understanding the intention.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Nothing of it, and that's really the sort of routinization of this. But if you go back to earlier periods in American history, if you go back, for instance, to the 1920s, when the Ku Klux Klan, the second version of the Ku Klux Klan, enjoyed incredibly widespread support and even a degree of political legitimacy running on exactly that theme. Sometimes if I go in my book, I don't know whether you notice that quote, the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, he sounds like a Trump, he sounds like a typical Trump voter. He sounds like Tucker Carlson. He sounds like Ross Duthett, you know, complaining about what's happened to your average American, meaning your average white American. And so, you know, and again, I think it's very important. I think foreigners can see this, actually, people who are not American see this more clearly than Americans can, which is just how much of this entire dispute”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I wish I could say she was a fringe figure. I mean, she behaves like a fringe figure, but I'm not sure her ideas are fringe. I think her ideas, this is what we've discovered many of us to our horror, is that those ideas are not fringe. They're very mainstream, and they are what Donald Trump is running on. And I think it's very important to realize that he's running on what Anne Coulter is saying, that America is basically a white. And I would say Anglo-Saxon. I don't know whose blood is being poisoned other than white Anglo-Saxon Protestants by the arrival of immigrants. So I just think she is expressing something that people used to express more openly in the past, but which we're just not used to hearing. This is Donald Trump's great contribution, is that people like Anne Coulter, who with even Ann Colt, the Anne Coulter of this world, would not have said such a thing 20 years ago in a way that could be quoted publicly. Now think.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It has always been this battle of beliefs between people who believe in the basic principles of the Declaration of Independence.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Dangerously underestimated the continuing vitality of this ethno religious interpretation of America. You know, there are some very fine books out there on this subject. One of them is by Tim Alberta. And he talks about the patriotism of many white Christians is really a patriotism to an ethno-religious definition of America. It's patriotism to a right Christian America, not to the founders America. And I just think It's really important to understand that this is a war of ideas. We've been a war of beliefs, a war that's been going on since the founding. We tend to focus on the immediate proximate complaints that people are bringing up, whether it's about woke this or administrative state or deep state, what have you. There's always been a particular issue that people have focused on, but at root.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The immigration restriction, which was deliberately targeted to let in only Nordic white foreigners and not anybody else. And so, and the religious aspect is really important, and I'm glad you brought that up. You know, for decades after the Declaration of Independence and the Revolution and the Constitution, even though religion was supposed to be separate from government, many of the states had religious tests for public office. You had to be Protestant or you had to believe in Christian teachings or you could not be Jewish or whatever. And so that was another one of those gaps. So this is a deep tradition. I think since the Second World War in particular, the sort of dominant ethos of America has been increasingly liberal and secular in accordance with the founder's wishes. But we have underestimated, and I think as it turns out rather dangerously.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, you're absolutely right. And of course, it took deep root because that was the situation at the time of the founding as well. I mean, you know, most Americans in the early, you know, well, throughout our history, but certainly in the early period, believed that America was fundamentally a Protestant nation. By the way, not a Christian nation. I think it's important to remember now they talk about a Christian nation, but at the time their number one, what they were most opposed to was Catholicism. Catholicism was the number one enemy in America for decades and decades and decades, really into the 20th century. So they believed that we are essentially a Protestant, a white Protestant country. That is what the essence of America is. There has always been a tendency to define America ethno-religiously, again, as a white Protestant country. That came back in the 20th century and the 1920s with...”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sure, because I think that first of all, let me just start with why do you write the book? I wrote the book to try to answer the question that has been bedeviling me and I think many others, which is how is it possible that so many people are willing to support someone who is so clearly uninterested in the basic principles of the Declaration of Independence, who is clearly said.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No. You know, I don't really believe that most of these Republicans believe any of the things they're saying. You mentioned Republican senators who are calling it a show trial. One of those is Marco Rubio. I think he compared it to the trials in the Castro regime. Marco Rubio himself in 2016 basically said that Trump was a corrupt monster completely uninterested in the rule of law, etc. So it's not as if Marco Rubio doesn't know what Donald Trump is, but Marco Rubio isn't exceedingly ambitious man who someday wants to be president. And like Nikki Haley, has decided that the way to eventually be president is to bend the knee to Donald Trump and become basically a slave to whatever Trump wants. And that's what's happened to leading Republican figures in the Republican Party. Markar Rubio was a presidential candidate not so long ago running against Donald Trump. And this is what's happened to the party.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Completely disdainful of the American justice system. I mean, this was a jury of Americans presented with evidence in a clearly legitimate trial. We can have a debate about whether this particular charge is disqualifying or not, but we shouldn't have any debate about whether it is a fair judgment. Obviously it is. And so when Republicans and Donald Trump reject it, they are in fact attacking the central tenets of our justice system, which I find extremely frightening in the context of the possibility that Donald Trump may be our next president or Republican Party may be the ruling party. It is not a party anymore devoted to the rule of law.”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, first of all, it's great to be here and great to be talking to you, Edward. The answer, of course, is yes, these comments, especially it is depressing to hear from Susan Collins, who's one of the more at least has been one of the more independent-minded Republicans left in the party. But what all this shows is basically two things. One is that the Republican Party is Donald Trump's party, period, end of sentence. There is no dissenting in the Republican Party. There are no equivocation in the Republican Party. Whatever people need to do to support Donald Trump, they're going to do, which tells us something, if we go ahead, look ahead to the election. I want to jump too far ahead of our conversation, but should Trump lose? I think you can count on these same people to declare along with Trump that the election was fraudulent. So this gives us, I think, a little bit of a preview. It also shows that Trump and the Republican Party are”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Chief U.S. commentator for the Financial Times based in Washington, DC, and author of books including The Retreat of Western Liberalism. Let's join Edward Now with more”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Welcome to Intelligence Squared where great minds meet. I'm head of programming, Connor Boyle. There's rarely a week in which Donald Trump doesn't make the headlines, but the last few have been particularly potent, with the former U.S. president now officially a convicted felon. It's an appropriate time then to ask ourselves once again how we got to this point, and one voice who has been vocal in lamenting the transformation of the Republican Party into a vehicle for Trump's agenda is Robert Kagan. He's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a historian and contributing colonist at the Washington Post. He's advised on policy for the US State Department and some of the Republican party's most prominent voices in recent decades. His latest book is Rebellion, How Anti-Liberalism is Tearing America Apart again, and it's a reflection on the increasing radicalization of the Republican Party, joining him in conversation to talk about it for this episode is Edward Luce. Edward is”
2024-06-05 · Intelligence Squared · The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT