YouSaid · the spoken record
Roger Penrose
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- 2020-03-31
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- 2020-03-31
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“So it can't just be a mistake in nature. There's something going on there. And this is made more. Pronounce when you think of the cerebellum. Cerebellum has, when I was first thinking about these things, I was told that it had half as many neurons or something like that comparable. And now they tell me it's got far more neurons than the cerebrum. The cerebrum is this sort of convoluted thing at the top people always talk about. Cerebellum is this thing which looks a bit like a ball of wool right at the back underneath.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And it's more than that. If you have this plot of different parts of the brain, there are two of these things called the homunculi, which you see these pictures of a distorted human figure and showing different parts of the brain, controlling different parts of the body. And it's not simply things like, okay, the right hand is controlled, both sensory and motor On the left side, left hand on the right side. It's more than that. Vision is at the back, basically. Your feet at the top. It's as though it's about the worst organization you could imagine.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And so it's a reasonable thing. I mean, you think, what did the brain do? Well, it does do a lot of computation. I think most of what you actually call computation is done by the cerebellum. I mean, this is one of the things that people don't much mention. I mean, I come to this subject from the outside and certain things strike me, which you hardly ever hear mentioned. And you hear mentioned about the left right business, the Move your right arm, that's the left side of the brain. And so on, and all that sort of stuff.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That certain numbers are conscious. Some integers, large enough integers are actually conscious. And this was going to be my reductive ad absurdum. So I started having this argument with him. He simply leapt into the corner. He didn't even need to be painted into it. He took the view that certain numbers were conscious.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So this is a sound of flaw in that kind of viewpoint. I'm not sure how people who take it very seriously. I had this curious conversation with. Going to forget names, I'm afraid, because this is what happens to me at the wrong moment. Hofstadt, Douglas. He had written this book. I wish I liked. I thought it was a fantastic book, but I didn't agree with his conclusion from Girdle's theorem. I think he got it wrong, you see. Well, I'll just tell you my story, you see, because I'd never met him. And then I knew I was going to meet him the occasion, I realize he was coming and you want to talk to me. And I said, that's fine. And I thought in my mind, well, I'm going to paint him into a corner, you see, because I'll use his arguments to convince him.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I guess I was trying to say that people are a bit confused about this. Because if they say these machines will become conscious The degree of computation, and when you get beyond that certain degree of computation, it will become conscious. Then, of course, you have all these problems. You might say, well, one of the reasons you're doing AI is because you understand a device some distant planet and you don't want to send a human out there because then you'd have to bring it back again and that costs you far more than just sending it there and leaving it there. But if this device is actually a conscious entity, then you have to face up to the fact that that's immoral. And so the mere fact that you're making some AI device and thinking that removes your responsibility to it would be incorrect.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you might say that it would be wrong to turn it off if it was actually conscious. I mean, these questions arise, if you think I mean, AI, one of the ideas, it's sort of a mixture in a sense. You say if it's trying to do everything a human can do, and if you take the view that consciousness is something which would come along when the computer is sufficiently complicated, sufficiently whatever criterion you use to characterize its Consciousness in terms of some computational criterion.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure that aspect of it was made completely clear, whether Hal was really just a very sophisticated computer, which really didn't actually have these feelings and somehow. You're right, it didn't like the idea of being turned off. How does”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Where you're basically touching on questions, you see, is one supposed to believe that Hal was actually conscious. I mean, it was played rather that way as though Howell was a conscious being.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's right. It's this view. I don't know whether I disagree with that question, a certain sense, it was telling you it's wrong. The machine seemed to think it was superior to the human. And so it was entitled to get rid of the human beings and run the show itself.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes. And well, it's the one where he throws the bone up into the air and then it becomes this, I mean, that's an amazing sequence there.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“All sorts of scenes there, which is so amazing. And how the science was so well done. I mean, people say, oh no, interstellar is this amazing move, which is the most scientific movie. I thought it's not a patch on 2001. I mean, 2001, they really went into all sorts of details about getting the free fall done and everything. I thought it was extremely well done.”
2020-03-31 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #85 – Roger Penrose: Physics of Consciousness and the Infinite Universe · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source