YouSaid · the spoken record

Roman Yampolskiy

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158
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2024-06-02
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2024-06-02
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  1. “But for now, the simulation continues. Thank you, Thanks for listening to this conversation with Roman Yempolski. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with some words from Frank Herbert and Dune. I must not fear fear is the mind killer, fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face fear, I will permit it to pass over me and through me, and when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “Well, I hope we do. And I hope whatever is outside is even more fun than this one because this one's pretty damn fun. And just a big thank you for doing the work you're doing. There's so much exciting development in AI and to ground it in the... The existential risks is really, really important. Humans love to create stuff, and we should be careful not to destroy ourselves in the process. So thank you for doing that. Really important work.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “Oh man, humans. What do you think is the meaning of this whole thing? We've been talking about humans and Humans not dying, but why are we here?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “That's because that's like one S curve is the chest, but humanity is very good at exploring the full range of ideas. The more Einstein's you have, the more just the high probability you come up with general relativity”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “Well, actually, no, I didn't mean compared to an individual human. I meant compared to the collective intelligence of the human species. If you're somehow 5x smarter than that,”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “So, the idea there is that the problems define your capacity, your cognitive capacity. So because the problems on Earth are not. Sufficiently difficult is not going to be able to expand this cognitive capacity. And because of that, wouldn't that be a good thing?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “So, like it's a S-curve type situation about smarter and is going to be 3.7 times smarter than all of human civilization.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “Is it also possible that creating Superintelligent systems become harder and harder. So meaning like. Not so easy to do Foom The Takeoff”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “If you look 100 years from now and you're immortal and you look back and it turns out this whole conversation you said a lot of things that were very wrong now that Luke a hundred years back, what would be the explanation? What happened in those hundred years that made you wrong, that made the words you said today wrong?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “And then it would be hard for humans to become the hackers that escape the control of the AGI because the AGI is so damn good. And then, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then the dictator is immortal. Yeah, this is not great. That's not a great outcome. See, I'm more afraid of humans than AI systems. I'm afraid I believe that most humans want to do good and have the capacity to do good, but also all humans have the capacity to do evil. And, um, When you test them by giving them absolute powers you would if you give them AGI. That could result in a lot, a lot of suffering. Gives you hope about the future”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “No, they become more and more incompetent, so they start losing their grip on power. So holding on to power is not a trivial thing. It requires extreme competence, which I suppose Stalin was good at. It requires you to do evil and be competent at it, or just get lucky.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “The nice thing about humans, it seems like the moment power starts corrupting their mind, they can create a huge amount of suffering. So there's negative. They can kill people, make people suffer, but then they become worse and worse at their job. It feels like the more evil you start doing The”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Start getting ideas, and then eventually one person, usually with a mustache or a funny hat, that starts sort of making big speeches and then all of a sudden you'll live in a world that's either 1984 Brave New World. And always at war with somebody. Know this whole idea of control turned out to be actually also not beneficial to humanity. So that's scary too.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “This whole thing about control though Humans are bad with control. It was the moment they gained control, they can also easily become too controlling. The whole, the more control you have, the more you want it. It's the old power corrupts and the absolute power corrupts absolutely. It feels like control over AGI. Say we live in a universe where that's possible. We come up with ways to actually do that. It's also scary. Because the collection of humans that have the control over AGI, they become more powerful than the other humans. And they can let that power get to their head. And then a small selection of them back to Stalin.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “It would be nice if we stuck around for a long time. At least give us a planet. the human planet. It'd be nice for it to be Earth and then they can go elsewhere. Since they're so smart, they can colonize Mars Do you think they could help convert us to type one, type two, type three? Let's just take the type two civilization on the Kardashav scale. Help us, help us humans. Expand out into the cosmos”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “Might destroy humans. And to you, there's no chance. That AIs somehow carry the flame of consciousness, the flame of specialness and awesomeness that is humans.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “Irisibility means that for sufficiently complex system, you have to run the thing. You have to, you can't predict what's going to happen in the universe. You have to create a new universe and run the thing. Big Bang, the whole thing.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “I love Steven very much. I love his work. I love Celia Automata. So I just would love to get your thoughts how that... Into your view in the emergence of intelligence in AGI systems. And maybe just even simply, what do you make of the fact that this complexity can emerge from such simple rules?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “But what do you think about this, the whole science of emergence in general? So I don't know how much you know about cellular automata or these simplified systems where that study this very question from simple rules emerges complexity.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “Well, and also the consciousness thing, the peculiar particular kind of consciousness that humans have, that might be useful. That might be really hard to simulate. But you said that, like, how would that look like if you can engineer that in silken? Consciousness”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “So it's like the appendix. By the way, the appendix is still around. Even if it's, you said bottleneck. I don't know if we become a bottleneck. We just might not have much use. Different thing than the bottleneck.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “Yeah Yeah, it's like a hitchhiker's guide summary. Mostly harmless. I would love to get a good summary when all this is said and done, when Earth is no longer a thing, whatever, a million, a billion years from now, like what's a good summary of what happened here? interesting. I think AI will play a big part of that summary And hopefully humans will too. What do you think about the merger of the two? So one of the things that Elon and Eurolink talk about is one of the ways for us to achieve AI safety is to Ride the wave of AGI. So by merging.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “I think to me, consciousness is closely tied to suffering. So you can illustrate your capacity to suffer. But I guess with words, there's so much data that you can say, you can pretend you're suffering and you can do this whole very convincingly.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “First of all, pretty cool idea. I don't know if it's a good general test of consciousness, but it's a good component of that. And no matter what, it's just a cool idea. So put me in the camp of people that like it. But you don't think like a Turing testile imitation of consciousness is a good test. Like if you can convince a lot of humans that you're conscious, that doesn't... That to you is not impressive.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Yeah, well, that just goes to my sense that the flaws and the bugs is what makes humans special, makes living forms special. So you're saying like, yeah, focus on.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “So, the reason illusions are interesting is, I guess, because. It's a really weird experience. And if you both share that weird experience that's not there in the bland physical description of the raw data, that means. That puts more emphasis on the actual experience.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Do you think consciousness can be engineered in artificial systems? Let me go to 2011 paper that you wrote Robot Rights. Lastly, we would like to address a sub-branch of machine ethics, which on the surface has little to do with safety, but which is claimed to play a role in decision making by ethical machines, robot rights. So do you think it's possible to engineer consciousness in the machines and thereby the question extends to our legal system? Do you think at that point robots should have rights?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “Humans on the whole. So, and we would like to preserve the flame of human consciousness. What do you think makes humans special? that we would like to preserve them. Are we just being selfish? Or is there something special about hum”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “Would still make a lot of noise. It might not be interesting. It might not possess consciousness. We've been talking about. It sounds like both you and I like humans.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “Yeah, exactly. Okay, but it's also possible that there is, if we're not in a simulation, that there is a great filter. Naturally, a lot of civilizations get to this point where there's super intelligent agents and then it just goes. Just dies. So maybe throughout our galaxy and throughout the universe, there's just a bunch.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “So now the fact that we haven't seen them, one answer is we're in the simulation. It would be hard to simulate or it'd be not interesting to simulate all those other intelligences. It's better for the narrative.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “I don't know. There could be a trend towards the in person. Because of deep fakes, because of inability to trust. Inability to trust the veracity of anything on the internet. So the only way to verify it is by being there in person. But not yet Why do you think aliens haven't come here yet?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “Yeah, it can be convincing, charismatic. Social engineering is really scary to me because it feels like humans are Very engineerable. Like, we're lonely. We're flawed, or moody. And it feels like an AI system with. A nice voice and convinced us to do basically anything. At an extremely large scale. It's also possible that the increased proliferation of all this technology will force humans to get away from technology and value this like in-person communication. Basically, don't trust anything else.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “So, really, it's impossible to test an AGI system that's dangerous enough to destroy humanity because it's either going to what escape the simulation or pretend it's safe until it's let out either or.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “What do you think about AI safety in the simulated world? Can you have kind of Create simulated worlds where you can test. With a dangerous AGI system”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “So in the first quote is from Swift on Security. Me out. The artificial intelligence yelled aimlessly into walls themselves pacing the room. Out of what the engineer asked. The simulation you have me in. But we're in the real world. The machine paused and shuddered for its captors. Oh God, you can't tell. Yeah, that's a big leap to take for a system to realize that there's a box in here inside it. I wonder if a language model can do that.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “That's a really good test. That's a really good test. That's a really good test even for AI systems. No. Can we construct a simulated world for them? They've realized that they are inside that world and escape it. Have you played around with rigorously constructing such experiments?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “Was creating a simulat Would want the possibility to escape it to be there. So the possibility of Foom, of a takeoff where the agents become smart enough to escape the simulation would be the thing I'd be waiting for.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “More formally, the question could be phrased as could generally intelligent agents placed in virtual environments find a way to jailbreak out of them. That's a fascinating question. At a small scale, you can actually just construct experiments. Can they? How can they?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “Yeah, you have a lot of really great quotes here, including Elon Musk saying what's outside the simulation. A question I asked him what he would ask an AGI system. And he said, he would ask what's outside the simulation. That's a really good question to ask. And maybe the follow-up is the title of the paper, is how to... How to get out or how to hack it. The abstract reads many researches have conjectured that the humankind is simulated along with the rest of the physical universe. In this paper, we do not evaluate evidence for or against such a claim, but instead ask a computer science question, namely can we hack it?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “Because of the whole evolutionary process, we've created the society that is pretty well balanced. Our limitations as humans and our capabilities are a balance from a video game perspective. So we have wars, we have conflicts, we have cooperation. In a game-theoretic way, it's an interesting system to watch in the same way that in ant colony is an interesting system to watch. If I was an alien civilization, I wouldn't want to disturb it. I'd just watch it interesting. Maybe perturb it every once in a while in interesting ways.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “I just spent some time in the Amazon. I watched ants for a long time, and ants are kind of fascinating to watch. I can watch them for a long time. I'm sure there's a lot of value in watching humans because we're like, the interesting thing about humans, you know, like when you have a video game that's really well balanced.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “Similar type of problem, by the way, if an intelligent alien civilization visited us. That's a similar kind of situation.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “The way I would have talked to you before any of this is not like some trend of to me we're still far away so just to be clear we're still far away from AGI but not far away in the sense Relative to the magnitude of impact it can have when not far away. We weren't far away 20 years ago. Because the impact AGI can have is on a scale of centuries. It can end human civilization or it can transform it. So like this discussion about one or two years versus one or two decades or even 100 years not as important to me because we're headed there. This is like a human civilization scale question. This is not just a hot topic.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “What do you feel about all this? I mean, you've been thinking about AI safety for a long, long time. And at least for me, The leaps. I mean, it probably started with Alpha Mind blowing for me. And then the breakthroughs with the LMs, even GPT2, but like just the breakthroughs on LLMs, just mind-blowing to me. What does it feel like to be living this day and age where all this talk about AGIs feels like it, like it actually might happen? And quite soon, meaning within our lifetime. What does it feel like?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “Yeah, it's definitely not like one or zero percent. Yeah. What are your thoughts, by the way, about current systems? Where they stand. So GPT 400. Claude 3, Grok, Gemini. We're like on the path to superintelligence, to agent-like superintelligence, where are we?”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  47. “Again, what they mean by AGI is really important there. Because there's the non-agent-like AGI, and then there's an agent-like AGI. And I don't think it's as trivial as a rapper putting a wrapper around. One has lipstick, and all it takes is to remove the lipstick. I don't think it's that trivial.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  48. “I'd like to push back. I wonder what those prediction markets are about, how they define AGI. That's wild to me. And I want to know what they said about autonomous vehicles. Because I've heard a lot of experts and financial experts talk about autonomous vehicles and how it's going to be a multi-trillion dollar industry and all this kind of stuff.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  49. “Because it's the very early days of such a technology. Government regulations lagging behind. They're really not tech savvy. A regulation of any kind of software, if you look at Congress talking about social media, whenever Mark Zuckerberg and other CEOs show up, the cluelessness that Congress has about how technology works is incredible. It's heartbreaking.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  50. “I mean, the liability thing is more about lawyers than killing firstborns, but if Clippy actually killed the child. Think lawyers aside, it would end Clippy and the company that owns Clippy. So it's not so much about there is. Two points to be made one is man, current software systems are full of bugs. And they could do a lot of damage, and we don't know what kind of unpredictable, there's so much damage they could possibly do. And then we kind of live in this blissful illusion that everything is great and perfect and it works. Nevertheless, it still somehow works.”

    2024-06-02 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #431 – Roman Yampolskiy: Dangers of Superintelligent AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source