YouSaid · the spoken record

Ronald Sullivan

lines on the record: 84
first: 2021-03-22
most recent: 2021-03-22
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Of course. Yes. I mean, that's the best part about going into university teaching. You're a lifelong student. I'm always learning. I learn from my students and with my students and my colleagues and you continue to read and learn and modify opinions. And I think it's just a wonderful thing.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Reality to the same degree as a physicist. But that's the purpose of an education. It's to sort of work through these issues. What does it mean to be a human being? And I think it's a fascinating journey. And I think it's a lifelong endeavor to figure out what is the thing, that nugget that makes us human.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, no, I do. I think, and actually I think that's the purpose of an education. What does it mean to be a human being? And in one way or another, we set out to answer those questions and we do it in a different way. I mean, some may look to philosophy to answer these questions. Why is it in one's personal interest to do good, to do justice? Some may look at it through the economist's lens some may look at it through the microscope in the laboratory that the phenomenal world is the meaning of life. Others may say that that's one vocabulary, that's one description, but the poet describes a”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm not afraid of death. I do think about it more now because I'm now in my mid-50s. So I used to not think about it much at all. The harsh reality is that I've got more time behind me now that I do in front of me. And it kind of happens all of a sudden too. You realize, wait a minute. I'm actually on the back nine now. So, yeah, my mind moves to it from time to time. I don't dwell on it. I'm not afraid of it. My own personal religious commitments, I'm Christian, and my religious commitments buoy me that, you know, that death. And I believe this, death is not the end. So I'm not afraid of it. Now, this is not to say that I want to rush to the afterlife. I'm good right here for a long time. I hope I've got 30, 35, 40 more years to go. But no, I don't fear death. We're finite creatures. We're all going to die.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Going out there, giving it your all, and still not quite getting it. And that's a risk, but it's a risk well worth it because you're just going to be the better person, the better student for it. And, you know, and even outside of the academy, I mean, come face to face with your fears. Keep going and keep going in life, and you're going to be the better person, the better human being.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, sure. I'll share some advice. It actually picks up on a question we talked about earlier in the academy and schools, but it's some advice that a professor gave to me. When I got to Harvard, and it is this that you have to be willing to come face to face with your intellectual limitations and keep going. And that's it. And it's hard for people. I mean, you mentioned this earlier to face really difficult tasks, and particularly in these sort of elite spaces where you've excelled all your life and you come to MIT and you're like, wait a minute, I don't understand this. Wait, this is hard. I've never Had something really hard before. And there are a couple options, and a lot of people will pull back and take the gentleman or gentlewoman's B and just go on or risk.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Dostoevsky created in crime and punishment. And I love others of this stuff too, the brothers Keramasov and so forth. But crime and punishment I first read in high school as a junior or a senior, and it is a deep and profound meditation on both the meaning and the measure of our lives. And Dostoevsky obviously in conversation with other thinkers really gets at the crux of a fundamental philosophical problem, what does it mean to be a human being and for that crime and punishment captured me as a teenager and that's another text that I return to often.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would say anyone is a better person for having read Du Bois. It's just he's just a remarkable writer and thinker. And I mean, to the extent you're interested in learning another history, he does it in a way that is quite sophisticated. So it's interesting. I was going to give you three books. I noted the accent when I met you, but I didn't know exactly where you're from But the other book I was going to say is Dostrevsky's Crime and Punishment. And I mean, I've always wanted to go to St. Pete's just to. To sort of see with my own eyes what the word pictures that”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I just think it's a beautiful concept, but he talks about this imaginative ability and it's this active process. So, I mean, so that's a book that's done a lot of work for me over the years. Souls of Black Folk by W.B. Du Bois was absolutely pivotal in my intellectual development. One of the premier set of essays in the Western literary tradition. And it's a deep and profound sociological, philosophical and historical analysis of the predicament of blacks in America from one of our country's greatest polymaths. It's a beautiful text. And I go to it. Yearly.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when you're humble, that's good because this notion that ideas are always already in progress, never fully formed, I think, is the sort of intellectual I strive to be. And if I have a sufficient degree of humility that I don't have the final answer, capital A, then that's going to help me to get to better answers, lowercase A. And Rorty does that. And he talks about in the solidarity part of the book, he has this concept of imaginative, the imaginative ability to see other different people as we instead of they.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What just society is. Yeah, I definitely share the tension and love his vocabulary and the way he's helped me resolve the tension. So, right. I mean, yeah, so like, you know, infanticide, for example, perhaps it's socially contingent. Perhaps it's received wisdom. Perhaps it's anthropological. You know, we need to propagate the species. And I still think it's wrong. And Rorty has helped me develop a category to say that no, I can't provide any, in Rorty's words, non-circular theoretical backup. This proposition at some point it's going to run me in a circularity problem, but that's okay. I hold this nonetheless in full recognition of its contingency. But what it does is makes you humble.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Beliefs are received wisdom and highly contingent along a number of registers. And he does that, but then goes on to say that he nonetheless can hold strongly held beliefs, recognizing their contingency, but still believes them to be true and acronym. It helps you to work through what could be an intellectual tension. So you don't delve into But he gives you a vocabulary to think about how to negotiate these realities.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh wow, yeah. So I'll give you a couple. So one is contingency irony and solidarity by Richard Wardy. He's passed away now but was a philosopher at some of our major institutions, Princeton, Harvard, Stanford contingency irony and solidarity. At least that's a book that really helped me work through a series of thoughts. So it stands for the proposition that our most deeply held beliefs are contingent, that there's nothing beyond history or prior to socialization that's definitory of the human being, that's Rorty. And he says that our most deeply held beliefs.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Very, very, I thought, so one, I believe he absolutely did not commit the crimes that we acquitted him on. I think that was the right answer for that. I don't know enough about Bradley, the first case, I'm sorry, to make an opinion on, but in our case it was just he had the misfortune of a famous name. And the police department just really, just really got on them there. Yes, I miss him a lot. It was very, very sad, surprising.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Aaron, that's going to be tough, man. But he really believed it. And then, you know, for a few days later that to happen, it was just, it was a real shock to me.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“claim and theory. But to answer your question more directly, I mean, I have no idea why he killed himself. It was a surprise and a shock. I was scheduled to go see him like a couple days after it happened. I mean, he was anxious for Jose and I to come in and do the appeal from the murder which he was convicted for. He wanted us to take over that appeal. He was talking about going back to football. I mean, he said, when you talk about this, earlier you talked about the sort of innocent aspect of him. He said, you know, well, Iran, maybe not the Patriots, but I want to get back in the league. And I was like, you know.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“A story broke on the radio. At some point during the trial that Aaron had been in the same sex relationship with someone and some local sportscasters, local Boston sportscasters would be really mushroomed the story. He and everyone was aware of it. You also may know from the court record that the prosecutors floated a specious theory for a minute but then backed off of it that Aaron was that there was some sort of, I guess, gay rage at work with him and that might be a cause, a motive for the killing. And luckily they really backed off of that. That was quite an offensive.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“During, yes, I try to stay away from it. I will view it afterwards. I just hadn't gotten around to watching Aaron because it's kind of sad So just haven't watched it. The press during trial. And, you know, there are some lawyers who watch it religiously to see what's going on. But, you know, I'm confident in my years of training and so forth that I can actively sense what's going on in the courtroom and that I really don't need advice from Joe 476 at gmail. You know, some random guy on the internet telling me how to try cases. It just to me, it's just confusing, and I just keep it out of my mind.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I have not seen it. I did not participate in it. I know I was in it because of there was news footage that, but I did not participate in it. I had not talked to Aaron about press or anything before he died. My strong view is that the Attorney Clive privilege survives death. And so I was not inclined to talk about anything that Aaron and I talked about. So I just didn't participate and have never watched.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when you saw him on television, he looked kind of little. And I was like, so I remember thinking, well, what do those other guys look like in person? And he's extraordinarily polite, young. I was surprised by how young he was”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He was not. He had, I mean, more than just a light, he was luminous almost. He had a radiant million dollar smile whenever you walked in. My first impression I distinctly remember was, wow, this is what a professional athlete looks like. I mean, he walked in and he's just bigger and more fit than anyone anywhere. And it's like, wow,”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So a friend called me, Jose Baez, who is the defense attorney, and he comes to a class that I teach every year at Harvard, a trial advocacy workshop as one of my teaching faculty members. It's a class where we teach students how to try cases. So Jose called me and said, hey, I got a call from Massachusetts, Aaron Hernandez. You want to go and talk to him with me. So I said, sure. So we went up to the prison. And met Aaron and spoke with him for two or three hours that first time. And before we left, he said he wanted to retain us. He wanted to work with us. And that started the representation.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That Aaron Hernandez was somehow involved in that murder that happened in the theater district. That's the district where all the clubs are in Boston and where the homicide occurred. And once the police heard Aaron Hernandez's name, then it was, you know, they went all out in order to do this. They found a guy named Alexander Bradley who was a very significant drug dealer in the sort of Connecticut area, very significant, very powerful. And he essentially, in exchange for a deal, pointed to Aaron. Yeah, I was with Aaron. And Aaron was the murderer. So that's how the case came to court.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so Aaron, whom I miss a lot. So he was charged with a double murder in the case that I tried. And this was a unique case in one of those impossible cases, in part because Aaron had already been convicted of a murder. And so we had a client who was on trial for a double murder after having already been convicted of a separate murder. And we had a jury pool just about all of whom knew that he had been convicted of a murder because he was a very popular football player in Boston, which is a big football town with the Patriots. So, you know, so everyone knew that he was a convicted murderer, and here we are defending for in a double murder case. So that was the context. It was not a case in the sense that This murder had gone unsolved for a couple of years. And then a nightclub bouncer said something to a cop who was working at a club.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. Absolutely. We tell stories. It is fundamental. Since time immemorial, we have told stories to help us make sense of the world around us. So as a scientist, you tell a different type of story. But we as a public have told stories from time immemorial to help us make sense of the physical and the natural world. And we are still a species that is moved by storytelling. So that's first and last in trial work. You have to tell a good story. And, you know, the basic introductory books about trial work teach young students, young students and young lawyers to start an opening. With this case is about. This case is about, and then you fill in the blank, and that's your narrative. That's the narrative you're going to tell”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And but it was not weaved into a narrative. So Cochrane taught us that no matter what type of case it is, no matter what science is involved, it's still about storytelling. It's still about a narrative. And he was great at that narrative and was consistent with his narrative all the way out. Another lesson that was relearned. It's that, you know, you never ask a question to what you don't know the answer. That's like... Trial advocacy 101. And so when they gave OJ Simpson the glove and it wouldn't fit. You don't do things where you just don't know how it's going to turn out. It was way, way too risky. And I think that's what acquitted him.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Translate that into a vocabulary that he bet that that jury understood. So Cochrane was dismissive of a lot of DNA. They said, you know, he said something like, oh, you know, they say they found such and such amount of DNA. That's just like me wiping my finger against my nose and just that little bit of DNA. That was effective because the prosecution hadn't done a good job of establishing that, yes, it's microscopic. You don't need that much. Yes, wiping your hand on your nose and touching something. You can transfer a lot of DNA and that gives you good information. But, you know, it was the first time that the public generally and that jury maybe since high school science had heard nucleotide. I mean, it was just all these terms getting thrown at them.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, you know, that was an interesting case. I was a young public defender, I want to say in my first year. As a public defender, when that verdict came out. So that case was important in so many ways. One, it was the first DNA case, major DNA case. And there were significant lessons learned from that. One mistake that the prosecution made was that they didn't present the science in a way that a laid jury could understand it. And what Johnny Cochrane did was he understood the science and was able to”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That is certainly a possible. Consequence of things you say. I don't think that most lawyers think about that in the context of a case. Your role is much more narrow. You're the partisan advocate as a defense lawyer, partisan advocate for that client, as a prosecutor. You're a minister of justice attempting to prosecute that particular case. But the reality is you are absolutely correct that sometimes the things you say Will have a shelf life. And you mentioned O.J. Simpson before, you know, if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. It's going to be just in our lexicon for probably a long time now. So it happens. But that's not. and shouldn't be foremost on your mind.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So it depends what he's convicted of. And yes, it depends on how much of time the judge gives him if he is convicted. There's a lot of space for people to be very angry. And so we will see what happens.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it could be. All that kind of stuff. I mean, a lot could happen. So it depends on what he's convicted of, you know, one count, I think, like up to 10 years, another count's up to 40 years.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, that's a good point. But it's another basis for the jury. To convict. But look, you never know what happens when you go to a jury trial, so there could be a An acquittal, and if there is, I imagine there would be massive protests if he's convicted. I don't think that would happen because I just don't see at least nothing I've seen or read suggests that there's a big provin camp out there ready to protest.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah. So, yes, there's certainly a possibility that he'll be acquitted for homicide charges for... The jury to convict, they have to make a determination as to Officer Chauvin's former officer's state of mind, whether he intended To cause some harm, whether he was grossly reckless or Causing harm so much so that he disregarded a known risk of death or serious bodily injury. And as you may have read in the papers yesterday, the judge allowed a third degree murder charge in Kentucky, which is the mindset, the state of mind there is not an intention, but it's a depraved indifference. And what that means is that the jury doesn't have to find that he intended to do anything. Rather, they could find that he was just indifferent to a risk. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And your duty bound. Duty bound to look at that testimony and this person's credibility, you know, the same degree as that other witness, right? And now what you have is just a he said, she said, matter. And this is a criminal case that has to be reasonable doubt. Right. So, you know, so you, and really someone who's trying to do the right thing, it's helpful, but no, you're not going to just find 14 people with no biases. That's absurd.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's why we chose you. And I'm confident that you're going to do that here. So when you heard that police officer's testimony, the judge told you you can't give more credit to that testimony just because it's a police officer. And I trust that you're going to do that and that you're going to look at witness number three. You know, John Smith, you're going to look at John Smith. John Smith has a different recollection.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When a bias is working and actively try to do the right thing. That's the best we can ask. So if a juror says, yeah, you know, look, I grew up in a place where I tend to believe what police officers say. That's just how I grew up. But if the judge is telling me that I have to listen to every witness equally, then I'll do my best and I won't weigh that testimony any higher than I would any other testimony. If you have someone answer a question like that, that sounds more sincere to me. It sounds more honest. And if you want a person, you want a person to try to do that. And then in closing arguments, right, as the lawyer, I'd say something like, ladies and gentlemen, you know, we chose you to be on this jury because you swore that you would do your level best to be fair.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, look, I do not believe that people can be completely unbiased. We all have baggage and bias and bring it wherever we go, including to court. What you want is to try to find a person who can at least recognize.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To know because they know that they'll get excused for cause. And others who you can tell really badly want to get on the jury. So they pretend to be the most neutral, unbiased person in the world. What the law calls the reasonable person. We have in law the reasonable person standard. And I would tell my class, the reasonable person in real life is the person that you would be least likely to want to have a drink with. They're the most boring. Neutral, not interesting sort of person in the world. And so a lot of jurors engage in the performative act of presenting themselves as the most sort of even killed, rational, reasonable person because they really want to get on the jury.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They may bring other problems. So I don't mind so much people who've heard about the case or folks who formed initial opinions, but what you don't want is people who have tethered themselves to that opinion in a way that they can't be convinced otherwise. But you also have people who, as you suggested, who just lie because they want to get on the jury or lie because they want to get off the jury. So sometimes people come and say, you know, the most ridiculous, outrageous, offensive things.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Whether an individual has formed an opinion, notwithstanding whether an individual knows about the case, that individual can set aside any prior opinions, can set aside any notions that they've developed about the case and listen to the evidence presented at trial in conjunction with the judge's instructions on how to understand and view that evidence. So if a person can do that, then they're considered unbiased. So, you know, as a longtime defense attorney, I would be hesitant in a big case like this to pick a juror who's never heard of the case or anything going around because I'm thinking, well, who is this person and what in the world do they do? Or are they lying to me? I mean, how can you not have heard about this case?”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so a couple things. So, first, yes, it is televised. As they say gavel to gavel, so the entire trial, the whole thing is going to be televised. People are getting a view of how laborious jury selection can be. I think as of yesterday, they had picked six jurors and it's taken a week. They have to get to 14. So they've got probably another week or more to do. I've been in jury trials where it took a month to choose a jury. So that's the most important part. You have to choose the right sort of jury. So unbiased in the criminal justice system has a particular meaning. It means that, let me tell you what it doesn't mean. It doesn't mean that a person is not aware of the case. It also does not mean that a person has informed an opinion about the case. Those are two popular misconceptions. What it does mean is that not with”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, it's going to be an interesting trial. I've been keeping an eye on it there in jury selection now today as we're talking. So a lot's going to depend on what sort of jury gets selected.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Common humanity of this person well said. And people were fed up. So we were already in this COVID space where we were exercising care for one another. And there was just an explosion, the likes of which this country hasn't seen since the civil rights Of the 1950s and 1960s and people simply said enough, enough, enough, enough. This has to stop. We cannot treat fellow citizens in this way, and we can't do it with impunity. And the young people say we're not going to stand for it anymore. And they took to the streets.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The George Floyd moment occurred at an historical Where people were in quarantine for COVID and people Have these cell phones to a degree greater than we've ever had them before. And this was sort of the straw that broke the camels back after a number of these sorts of cell phone videos surfaced. People were fed There was unimpeachable evidence of a form of mistreatment. Whether it constitutes murder or manslaughter, the trial is going on now, and jurors will figure that out. But there was widespread appreciation that a fellow human being was mistreated, that we were just talking about humanity, that there was not a sufficient recognition of this person's humanity.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But there is a discussion about what constitutes a human being. And I mean, you gestured at the notion of the potential of the law widening the domain of human beings. In that sense, people are very angry because they can't get sort of pain and suffering damages if someone negligently kills a pet because a pet is not a human being. And people say, well, I love my pet, but the law sees a pet as chattel, as property, like this water bottle. The current legal definitions trade on a definition of humanity that may not be worked out in any sophisticated way, but certainly There's a broad and shared understanding of what it means. So probably doesn't explicitly contain a definition of something like soul, but it's more robust than a carbon-based organism. There's something a little more distinct about what the law thinks a human being is.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I mean, interesting ontological question between the performance of consciousness and actual consciousness to the extent that actual consciousness is anything beyond some contingent reality. But you've posed a number of interesting philosophical questions. And then there's also, it strikes me that philosophers of religion would pose another set of questions as well when you deal with issues of structure versus soul, body versus soul. And it would be a complicated mix. And I suspect I'll be dust by the time those questions get worked out.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it's interesting, sort of outside of my intellectual bailiwick robots, as I understand the development of artificial intelligence, though the aspect that Still is missing is this notion of consciousness and that it's consciousness. That is the thing that will move if it were to exist. And I'm not saying that it can or will, but if it were to exist, would move robots from machines to something different that experienced the world in a way analogous to how we experience it. And also as I understand the science, there's a, unlike what you see on television, that we're not there yet in terms of this notion of the machines having a consciousness.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But I'm saying that if we keep at it, keep getting to know each other a little better, keep enforcing laws that prohibit the sort of race-based discrimination that people have experienced and provide as a society opportunities for people to thrive in this world, then I think we can see a better world. And if we see a better world, we'll see a better judicial system.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I do, I think that race insinuates itself in all aspects of our lives and the judicial system is not immune from that. So to the extent we begin to eradicate Dangerous and deleterious race thinking from society generally than it will be eradicated from the criminal justice system. I think we've got a lot of work to do and I think it'll be a while, but I think it's doable. I mean, the country, so historians will look back 300 years from now and take note of the incredible journey of diasporic Africans in the US, an incredible journey from slavery to the heights of politics and business and judiciary, the academy and so forth, in not a lot of time and actually not a lot of time. And if we can have that sort of movement. Historically, let's think about what the next 175 years.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I would be bitter for every day of 20 years if I were in jail for something. But, you know, but people tell me that, you know, that they can't survive, like one cannot survive like that. And you have to come to terms with it. And the people whom I've exonerated, I mean, they come out most of them come out and they just really just take on life with a vim and vigor without bitterness. And it's a beautiful thing to see.”
2021-03-22 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #170 – Ronald Sullivan: The Ideal of Justice in the Face of Controversy and Evil · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source