YouSaid · the spoken record

Russell Foster

lines on the record: 49
first: 2024-07-08
most recent: 2024-07-08
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“To answer the question, it's probably not the light. I think that because these electronic devices are so much more dynamic, you're interacting and you're flipping. I mean, we will do it. And they just have a greater alerting effect than the comfort of something that is static and the word which you can read. And it's not so interactive. Now, of course, some books are intensely interactive. They're thought-provoking and all the rest of it. But most of us, I think, would use, and I often read a comforting novel before I go to sleep to get me into the space or listen to some relaxing music. So I think those are the sorts of things. And I think that's the difference between a complicated, interactive electronic device versus a book, which is a bit more passive, I guess.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Significant just, but that's biologically meaningless. And so it's probably not the low levels of light from these devices. And in fact, you know, you can get these screen shifters going from blue light to orange light. The evidence that they actually interact with the clock is minimal. And so I was actually talking to a teenager fairly recently and I said, you know, you really mustn't use these devices late into the night. He said, oh, it's no problem. Because I've got a device which shifts the screen from blue to orange. So it's not going to be a problem. And I said, okay, well, there's not any really good evidence that that will work. And by the way, what time do you think you're getting off to sleep? 2 a.m., maybe sometimes three a.m. So, you know, you could actually delude yourself with this stuff.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You're right about this in your book. Yeah, no, this is interesting. So let's deal with this blue light issue and electronic devices, because there's a lot of, the jury's still out, I should say. However, let me just give you, describe one set of experiments, which is often quoted incorrectly. So group at Harvard got people to read from a Kindle. It's called an e-book because they weren't allowed to use the word Kindle in the paper for four hours on its highest intensity for five consecutive nights. So, you know, four hours before sleep, every night for five nights. At the end of that five nights, sleep on set was delayed by ten minutes. And it was barely statistically significant. And in fact, one of my colleagues was so incensed for this and said, well, it may be statistically significant.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Can be cured by sleep, fatigue represents some underlying health issue. And if you notice this going on, then you must consult your general practitioner and try and find out what's going on. Interestingly, in this individual, the fatigue was not allowing her to function optimally during the day. And so she was getting really, really anxious. And so she would wake up at night and then she'd realize all the things that she hadn't achieved during the day. And that would prevent her getting back to sleep. So it was a vicious circle of getting worse and worse and worse. So try and disentangle sleepiness from fatigue. And if it's fatigue, go and see healthcare professionally.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That the best is eight hours is completely wrong. Some people actually thrive on nine hours or six hours of sleep. And we go back to the whole shoe size issue. You work out what's best for you and you stick to it. So there is no automatic nine hours bad, you know, you're going to die. What you do need to be careful about is disentangling. And I think this is really important. Sleepiness from fatigue. And I was speaking to somebody last week who had an underlying health issue, which was you had an immune problem and it was generating incredible fatigue. And even though she had the availability of sleep and she was sleeping quite long periods and she was getting off to sleep fine, she was still feeling overwhelmed by fatigue. And so sleepiness can be...”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That's a great question, Kevin, and I'm very glad you asked that because there are a series of studies that come out from time to time saying if you Oh, five hours or sleep up less, or nine hours of sleep more sleep, you're going to have health issues and you're going to die early. Now, I mean, that's putting it crudely, but that's the kind of undercurrent that you get from these. The trouble is with all of these studies, the health status of the individuals was not taken into account. So they knew that they were only sleeping five hours or nine hours or whatever. But of course, if you're ill with a pre-existing condition, that can either shorten your sleep, let's say obstructive sleep apnea, for example, or if you have a range of problems, for example, depression, can increase your sleep duration. And so I think it's very difficult to make generalizations. And also because we're so different, saying”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Seven days. So yeah, sleep duration is very important in the regulation of our metabolism. And we need to take that incredibly seriously.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, oh, absolutely. And we touched on that in the last question. So there's a wonderful study done on healthy young males who were only allowed to sleep, I think it was either five or four hours a night over five days, five or six days. And that's not actually that surprising. The banking sector, five hours of sleep a night is almost the norm for many individuals. They looked at the impact of this restricted sleep over, I think it was seven days. And at the end of that period, grown the hunger hormone was up, I think, by something like 27%. The satiation hormone leptin was down by seventeen percent. Carbohydrate consumption had gone up by thirty five to forty percent, and the ability to clear glucose from the circulation was bordering on the diabetic. So that was just after.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think education is a key piece here. And I'm clearly, many people don't want to work night shifts, but there are educational and social reasons. Many nurses, for example, work nightshit shifts deliberately because it's the only way they can also combine a career with a family. They can get the kids off to school in the morning. They can go back to sleep. And they're therefore when they come home, then they go on the night shift and they can get back for getting them off to school. And so there are significant economic drivers in this. Nevertheless, we need to educate people about the consequences. I hope that was Dave, wasn't it? I hope that was of some use.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't put them on the morning shifts. And if you're a morning person, don't put them on the late shifts. Now, it's not the complete answer, but at least it will mitigate some of the issues. So the 24-7 society, that genie is not going to go back in its bottle, but we can use a range of approaches that will mitigate those problems. And actually, I think really we've got to make sure that the employers actually understand what they're expecting their employees to do. Many of them don't. And certainly I had my eyes opened in this when I spoke to several years ago now, the head of the Confederation of British Industry, who basically said, we're going to cure the problems of British industry. We're going to run it on a 24-7 basis. No commutes, no need to build more office spaces in London, all this sort of kind of stuff. And nice chap, you know, well-meaning, but no idea of the Bible.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One more area where I think these are all things that we could do now. Oh, two more things. One, of course, is that if you're having high levels of coronary heart disease, diabetes 2 metabolic syndrome, what food could we provide in the canteens for night shift workers? Well, what's available is high fat, high sugar, you know, burgers, chips. Nobody, to my knowledge, is actually providing high protein, easy to digest, small snacks which the digestive system and the body can deal with. And so we've got to sort of move away from, and it's very difficult because of course if you're tired, you release the hunger hormone grelin and you're actually craving more carbohydrates. So again, requires education. And I guess the final area would be to chronotype the workforce so that if you're a late type, for goodness sake, don't”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Particularly as you get close to home that will alert you that you're falling asleep. In the factory or the workplace, you can increase the amount of light, which will increase levels of alertness. So those are some of the things. Education, I think, is critically important. So many night shift workers don't know what's happening to them. And it's not just the individual. The night shift worker, but also their family. The divorce rate is sometimes six times higher depending on the type of work, six times higher on the night shift compared to the day shift. And it's because, of course, the demands of working at night, you lose all of those incredible things that make us a sense of humor, your empathy all go. And so the partners need to understand that this person hasn't turned into a monster, but this is an almost inevitable consequence of working on the night shift. And I think one...”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“High frequency health checks. Second is vigilance. So if you're tired, you're falling asleep. And one of the great dangers is not only falling asleep or becoming drowsy and poorly attentive in the factory. And of course, night shift work is associated with a much higher accident rate and also higher fatalities. But it's the drive home that can be so very dangerous. The study published a few years ago showed that 57% of junior doctors after working a night shift, after a series of night shifts, 57% had reported either having a crash or a near miss on the way home. So what can we do about that vigilance? Well, we can use simple devices such as something on your phone and so you can detect head nods or movements.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Night shift work because of sustained activation of the stress axis. And I just don't want to be too down on the stress axis. The stress axis is really important. And it's a bit like the first gear of a car engine. You know, it gives you that wonderful acceleration you can get out of it. But if you keep the engine in first gear, you're going to destroy the engine. And that's rather like the stress axis. And so what you find in nightshift workers, high levels of obesity, diabetes too, metabolic syndrome, coronary heart disease, and high rates of cancer. So what can you do? Well, you can't cure that, but what you can do is mitigate. The first point is, and I think there's an important duty of care by employers, is that they should have higher frequency health checks of their workforce to catch these health problems before they become chronic. So first is high chronic.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I think this is an incredibly important question. Now, where to start? I suppose when, first of all, why don't shift workers shift? And the issue is light. So what happens is that the night shift worker is under relatively dim light in the workplace, then will experience bright natural light during the day or in the evening, and the clock will always defer to the brighter light signal as being daytime. And so the problem is that the biological clock doesn't shift. And so working at night doesn't mean that the body is adapting to working at night. So what it's got to do is override this huge drive for sleep. And of course it does that through the stress axis.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For example, can be useful. The thing you need to be careful about is that you don't habitually use them to try and induce sleep at night. That can be dangerous. And in fact, in the elderly, they are strongly not recommended because it causes drowsiness if individuals are waking in the night, there's an increased tendency to fall, and also with even the Z drugs, there's increased daytime sleepiness, which can be really counterproductive. It's very interesting because people will have this daytime sleepiness, which is in fact not sleepiness, but fatigue in a sense, because it's sort of this sedation. They feel frustrated because they can't do what they need to do. That generates anxiety, and that can actually feed back and disrupt sleep. So I think it's a really... Important issue, and sedation is not biological sleep.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Absolutely true, yeah. Essentially, what you're doing is you're distorting the neurotransmitter pathways that would normally keep you alert and awake. And so you sedate, you essentially, you're stimulating actually inhibitory pathways, which then mean that you're basically turning off some of the consciousness drive. And sedation is emphatically not the same as biological sleep. Now One has to be slightly careful.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Better night's sleep and then have all the benefits of a good night's sleep. And then as we discussed, really, I want to emphasize again, if you wake, stay calm. It's not necessarily the end of sleep. So there are just a few tips across the sort of the day, before bed, the bedroom, and in bed. What we can all sort of start to play with to enhance our”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now the database for that is not very good, but I think there's an important placebo effect here where people will enter the bedroom and let's say it's lavender and think, oh yeah, this is the place where I sleep, I associate lavender with sleep and that's what I should be doing. One very important point is if your partner snores The first point is that snoring can be quite well, it's very disruptive and you need to make sure that your partner doesn't have obstructive sleep up near which is basically if they stop breathing and then have these great splattering surges of intake. That's really dangerous and if there's any evidence of that go and see your GP and get it sorted out. The other thing is if your partner is keeping you awake because of snoring find an alternative place to sleep. It's no reflection upon your quality of your relationship. In fact it means that both of you are going to get a”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Don't take sleep apps too seriously They're okay for telling you roughly when you went to sleep roughly when you woke up and if you woke up in the night so sleep duration and sleep timing but when they start telling you you've had good deep sleep and all the rest of it ignore it because the current devices simply cannot extract that information reliably and none of them are endorsed by the sleep federations And then finally in bed keep to a routine both at the weekends and during the work day ensure that the bed is large and comfortable I mean you know as we discussed right at the beginning 36% of our lives are spent in bed and some of us are really cheap about the mattresses and the pillows we buy and we should actually make these should be a place of comfort and haven keep bedside lights low again reducing alertness Some people use relaxing oils”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Perhaps on the slightly cool but not cold, keep it quiet, particularly if you're next to a road, keep it dark again if there's light coming in from outside Make sure that the bedroom is a haven for sleep, so get rid of the televisions, get rid of the computers and the smartphones. And I know this is difficult because so many bedrooms are also studies, but try and be disciplined about it. Don't clockwatch. So many people with an illuminated, an alarm clock may wake up. They think, oh my God, I've only got two hours left. Get stressed. And then they won't get back to sleep. So many people actually just cover up the face. The alarm is what's important. It's not whether you've got two hours before you need to get out of bed.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Least 30 minutes before you want to go to sleep. We've touched on this, but avoid sedatives such as alcohol or drugs. Avoid the discussion of complicated difficult topics. Now, for many couples, the end of the day is about the only time they get some time together. And certainly, at least in my household, I've banned any discussion of family finances before bed. It's just too stressful. And also think about that transition before bed and into sleep of winding down activities, whether it's sitting quietly, listening to some music, reading a favourite poem. But it's so important to get into the phase of preparation for sleep. The bedroom shouldn't be too warm, 18 to 22 degrees.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“If you nap, make sure it's no longer than 20 minutes and it's not close to bedtime because that's going to push back the sleep pressure and make it more difficult to get to sleep at night. Exercise, not too close to bedtime because increased core body temperature is going to make it more difficult to get to sleep. We've talked about food and we've talked about caffeine. Don't drink caffeine in the afternoon if you can possibly avoid it. And the key thing at sort of the end of the day is to step back from stressful work situations. I think stress is the absolute enemy of sleep. So many people say, I've got a sleep problem. They don't. They have a stress problem, not a sleep problem before bed, so you can reduce the light levels, which reduces alertness, stop using your electronic devices. Really important.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, of course, I think that the primary tip would be buy my book. But that's outrageous. So I think you can divide up some tips for sleep into four domains. So what can you do during the day? What can you do before bed, the bedroom itself, and when you're in bed? So during the day, really get out there and get that morning light. It's so important at setting the clock. And it's morning light for most of us. If you happen to be a lark, a really early person, then you might want to get evening light, but for most of us it's going to be morning light.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Increased disinhibition, are you showing irritability, loss of empathy? And if it's yes to a bunch of those, then it indicates that you're not getting the sleep that you need at night. And that's when you need to start to think about, well, how can I achieve that optimal behavior? But as I stress, in adults, for example, we're told, you know, the optimum is eight hours. But actually for adults, the range, the healthy range can be from six to ten hours. And we'll sit somewhere on that spectrum and it'll change a bit. It certainly changes as we age. But it's not a, as I say, it's not a one-size-fits-all. And you really need to answer those questions. Am I performing optimally at the level I want to perform during the day?”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the simple answer is, are you able to function at the level you want to function during the day? Do you show optimal performance during the day? But there are other ways you can assess this. Do you need an alarm clock to wake you up in the morning or somebody else to wake you up? And does it take a long time to actually come to, you know, do you have this, what's called sleep inertia? Do you over-sleep extensively on free days such as the weekend, and particularly when you go on holiday? Do you feel irritable, fatigued when you're awake? Do you crave a nap during the day? Do you find yourself doing overly impulsive and unreflective things? Do you crave caffeinated drinks? And do you share altered behaviors? And I think it's really important that you listen to”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, a throwback to our sort of Protestant work ethic, which is work is virtuous. And if you can't work, you're not virtuous. And of course, you can't work when you're asleep. Therefore, by definition, sleep is not virtuous. And I think that sort of carried forward to this whole nonsense idea that sleep is for wimps and is an indulgence and it's almost been treated up until recently as an illness that needs a cure. And the key thing is that sleep and sleep timing, sleep duration is incredibly different. It's rather like shoe size. One size does not fit all, and the key thing is to try and define whether you're getting enough sleep and then modify your behavior appropriately. And I think a really important question that individuals need to ask themselves, well, how do I know if I'm not getting enough sleep?”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No, you know, we've talked about sleep responses, you know, the response of our body to sleep loss. And if you want to be innovative and creative, and if you want to interact and be an optimal human being, then you embrace sleep. Now, there will be a small percentage of the population out there who can get up at four o'clock in the morning, the really morning types, and then function. But to try and impose that pattern on somebody like myself, who's a late type or somebody like you, Linda, who's an intermediate type, is completely counterproductive. And it's that sort of appalling mechanismo about, oh, I did another all-night or I didn't, you know, sleep as for wimps, you know, and I think we're moving away from that, but there's still that vestige. And it may actually relate to...”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“and what our biology can deal with optimally. So your question in how do we lose weight? Well, ideally, we concentrate our calorie intake during the first half of the day when we're going to be burning those calories rather than the second half of the day and towards bedtime, when we're going to be turning those calories into fat.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sciences actually could inform biology and science. Because, of course, the habit of eating late is a very recent phenomenon. If you look to the medieval and the pre-industrial period, then the breakfast and then all the medieval banquets we tend to think of as, you know, in the evening, were actually in the middle of the day. And there was a very light meal before bedtime. But with industrialization and the commutes and the disruption of so many aspects of our social behavior, you know, when the breadwinner would get home after work during the day and after the commute home, then the main meal, the main family meal, was shifted later to the evening. And sometimes the late evening. And so our sort of society has shifted our eating habits away from what our biologists expect.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sort of a constant stream of glucose into an individual. And of course, glucose is the energy store. Then the glucose is cleared and metabolized far, faster during the first half of the day compared to the second half of the day. And of course, if that glucose isn't being burnt, then it's being turned to fat. And so those then informed other experiments by putting people on calorie restriction. And so I have something like 2,000 calories. And these individuals who are given those 2,000 calories primarily at breakfast and lunchtime or primarily at lunchtime and in the evening. And those that had the morning calorie intake lost weight much faster than the evening calorie intake. And, you know, this is sort of somewhat perplexing, but if we again look to historical records, and it's a great example of whether the social”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So tell me what is the best Absolutely. Guarding is really, really, really great. And there's some other references to gardening in the book. So if we step back and we think about the biology, if you think about it, during the day, we're consuming calories, we're burning those calories to drive our metabolism, to drive our muscles to do, essentially drive our brain. 20% of the calories we consume are actually consumed by our brain, which is huge. So what, 3% of our body weight is consuming 20% of our calorie intake. But of course when we're asleep, we're not taking in calories. And therefore we have to survive on the mobilization of our stored calories, our stored fat. So we're very different creatures during the day and the night. And so what's been shown is that if you, there's a range of different studies. If you infuse glucose into a...”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Some ghastly hour, you know, early morning, and then get out there, get exposed to bright natural light, and then that will advance the clock. And so it's when we're exposed to light can also affect our chronotype. So you think it'd be a fairly straightforward question, but it isn't. But the good news, I think, about chronotype is that we do have some control over it depending upon when we see light. And we can change that. And if we can't get out, for example, in the winter months to get natural light, then a light box can be very useful in that context.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“No good at all unless it's set to the external world. And that's where light comes in. But light doesn't do the same thing at different times of day. So dusk light delays the clock, makes us get up later. Morning light advances the clock, makes us get up earlier. Now, when we were all agricultural workers, we got symmetrical exposure to both morning and evening light. But in our 24-7 society, that exposure can be very distorted. And so we did a study a few years ago whereby we looked at the chronotype of teenagers and young adults. And we showed that the later the chronotype”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Pre-puberty at about the age of 10. The key point is that there's about a two-hour on average difference between somebody in the late fifties, early sixties, and somebody in their late teens, early 20s. And so really asking a teenager to get up at seven o'clock in the morning is really like asking them to get up at 5 o'clock in the morning. It's that level of difference. That's the second component, and it's tightly correlated with the sexteroids, estrogen, testosterone. But the third, which is often overlooked, and this is where we have real control, is when we see light. So we've got this internal, beautiful clock timing all this exquisite physiology to the very demands of the 24-hour rotation of the earth.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“In this fact, are still telling us what time to go to bed and get up. So that's one element our genes. The second is our development. And that's very closely related to the hormonal changes that occur during puberty. So from about the age of 10, there's an increasing tendency to want to go to bed later and later and later peaking in the late teens, early twenties. Women tend to peak a little bit earlier than men. There's about a year, year and a half difference between men and women. And women never get as late as men. And men tend to be later for longer. But after the early twenties, then there's a move to go to bed a bit earlier again. But that's a long tale. So the time you're in your late 50s, early 60s, you're getting up and going to bed at about the time you got up and went to bed.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, that's such a great question, Linda. Thank you. I love this question. So it's all about our chronotype. And that sort of refers, are you a lark, a morning type? You like to get up early, go to bed early, an intermediate type, often called a dove. Yes, which is where most of us sit, and that's about 65% of the population. Or an owl, which is about 25% of the population like to go to bed late and get up late. There are three essential elements to our chronotype. One is our genetics. I mean, one of the really amazing things recently is that we've got these clock genes driving this 24-hour oscillation. And subtle changes in some of those genes can either speed up the clock or slow it down and make you either a lark or an owl. So there's a genetic component. So by our contribution to our genes, our parents...”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Experience where they've actually fallen asleep at the wheel. The low end of estimates from the states are that 100,000 crashes on the American freeway are due to microsleeps and people falling asleep at the wheel. That's the low end. Other people would put it at a higher level, more like 300,000 crashes every year. And many of these crashes, of course, are fatal because what happens is you've lost control. You've lost the ability to respond to the acceleration towards another car or to the middle of the road. So yeah, so short-term caffeine, of course, can be, you know, if you've got to make that long journey, a cup of coffee can actually reduce your sleepiness, and that can be very useful. But it's a dangerous game. And I think it's really beholden upon all of us not to drive when we're tired.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Adenosine has been introduced into the brain and it's made animals go sleep. Now, how does that relate to caffeine? Well, what's so fascinating is that caffeine actually blocks the receptors in the brain that detect adenosine. So the brain can't detect the adenosine, it can't detect how tired it is. And so that's what's happening with caffeine. It's masking our ability to detect how tired we are. And of course, many people fuel the waking day with endless cups of coffee and they're suppressing the brain's response to tiredness. And one of the problems, of course, is that as soon as the caffeine wears off, you can then plummet into an extreme sleep state, often called a microsleep. Where you can simply uncontrollably fall asleep. And many of the listeners may have had a frightened”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, yes, absolutely. So if we drill into the biology of this, so there are two sorts of timers. Sleep, of course, involves a flip-flop between consciousness and sleep, and that involves a realignment of all the brain neurotransmitters and multiple brain structures. And it's kind of timed by two things. The clock, which is saying now is the appropriate time to be awake, now is the appropriate time to be asleep. And then a second timer, which is perhaps the most intuitive part about sleep, which is the longer you've been awake, the greater the sleep pressure, and the greater the need for sleep. Now, that process is often called sleep pressure or the homeostatic drive for sleep. And one of the key neurochemicals that has been associated with that is a substance called adenosine. And we know that adenosine builds up within the brain, the longer we've been awake, the higher the levels of adenosine within the brain. And indeed, in animal studies,”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And of course, that can blend into illegal drug use. If we think about our cognitive impairments, then our ability to multitask is gone, our memory consolidation is gone, our attention, our concentration, our communication skills, our decision-making skills, creativity, productivity, and indeed the whole sort of social connectivity. So big impacts upon emotional and cognitive responses. But long-term sleep and circadian rhythm disruption, as you see in night shift workers, is a Sleep in cicada and disruption is so much more than the inconvenience of feeling tired at an inappropriate time, but impacts upon everything that makes us special, you know, our ability to interact, our ability to solve problems, and indeed our ability to develop a healthy physiology. And it really is right at the heart of essentially everything we do.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The last few years showing that the tired brain remembers negative experiences but forgets the positive ones, which means that tired people, tired people's view of the world is negative, which then will influence the sorts of decisions that you make. There's a tendency to want to drink caffeine, coffee and tea to stimulate, to try and override this sleep loss. And then, of course, at night, when you've got a day wired with caffeine and energy-rich drinks, you need to reverse it. And under those circumstances, there's a tendency to drink alcohol as a sedative, or indeed take sedatives, tablets. And the key thing to remember there is that these are sedatives. They do not provide a biological mimic of sleep. And in fact, some of the important things going on in the brain, like memory consolidation, the processing of information, can be actually inhibited by alcohol.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So we can think of sleep and circadian rhythm disruption in three broad domains. The impact upon our emotional responses, our cognitive responses and our overall physiological health. So after relatively short periods of sleep restriction, sleep loss and circadian rhythm disruption, you see increased, for example, fluctuations in mood, irritability, anxiety, and I should stress that anxiety is one of the great enemies of sleep. Loss of empathy, the failure to pick up those signals from friends, family and colleagues, and also frustration, increased risk taking and impulsivity. Yes, I think I can make that red traffic light when in fact you can't. A negative salience, some wonderful data has been published over”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You know, you're going to produce more urine at night. So it's really important, particularly in the elderly, if you move around, keep active, to distribute that fluid before you go to sleep. So that was quite a long answer to your question.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Instead of being a robust high peak, have sort of been squashed a bit. So the hormones regulating urine production are not high urine during the day, low at night. It's a bit more squished. So there is that sort of tendency to produce more urine at night as we get older. It's also enhanced, though, enormously by inactivity. So if you're sitting at a desk all day or sitting watching the telly or whatever, then fluid accumulates in the lower legs. And when you then lie flat, that fluid is then reintegrated into the bloodstream. And you actually get a lot of fluid. And in fact, just by lying down after a day of not doing anything can generate a liter of urine. Bearing in mind that the bladder is about 350 mils, has a capacity of 350 mils, then”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“the end to sleep we're embracing actually some of our ancient biology and just one more point on that it's it's been shown in the field and of course with medieval records pre-industrial records but also in the lab individuals were brought into the lab given 12 hours of light 12 hours of darkness and within a few days they flipped into this biphasic polyphasic sleep pattern with these with these wake-ups in the night so so if anybody's out there is worried about waking up in the night please don't there are some added complications to this though if you're elderly so what's happening and the need to get up and pee for example so so many elderly people you know complain about this and there is a basis there is a biological basis for it because as one ages the the amplitude of the circadian rhythms in many of the hormonal patterns are”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Go back to sleep again. Maybe wake up again and then go back to sleep again. And so what seems to be the natural state of humans is called biphasic sleep, two episodes of sleep, or indeed polyphasic sleep. And in that regard, we're just like all of the other mammals. And the problem that we're facing, I think, at the moment is that because of the sort of headlung rush into modernity, we squeezed our opportunities to sleep and we've lost this sort of biphasic and polyphasic episodes. And so when people do wake up in the middle of the night, they think, oh my goodness, this is the abnormal state. I'm going to get back to sleep. I might as well start doing my emails, drinking coffee and taking it on the chin. But actually, the key thing is staying relaxed, keep the lights low, do something relaxing. And indeed, you will fall back to sleep. And so waking up at night is not necessary.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Much biology is going on whilst we sleep, it defines our ability to function during the day. So that's the big sleep picture. But you also asked about waking up in the middle of the night. Now, we are screamed at so often by saying, you know, perfect sleep is eight hours of uninterrupted sleep. And that's perhaps the abnormal state. If you look at societies on the planet without electric light and you look at medieval records, then the sleep pattern was actually very different. There's a sort of a two-hour sort of quiet period after sunset than maybe a two or three hour block of sleep wake up, interact with others.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So many things I've touched on the clearance of toxins. I mean, what's emerged over the past few years is there's this misfolded protein called beta amyloid, and it's associated with the development of Alzheimer's. And we know now that that is bundled up and got rid of whilst we sleep. And if people are prevented from sleeping, you can actually measure increased levels of beta-amyloid within the cerebral spinal fluid. as it's deposited within the brain. So that's one really important issue. We also know that the consolidation of memory is going on whilst we sleep. There's some beautiful data showing that a night of sleep can enormously enhance our capacity to remember stuff, but not only just remember stuff, but also process information. So coming up with innovative solutions to complex problems is actually going on in the brain while we sleep. So essentially so.”
2024-07-08 · Intelligence Squared · Archive – The New Science of the Body Clock, with Russell Foster · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT