YouSaid · the spoken record

Sarah Frier

lines on the record: 97
first: 2020-04-13
most recent: 2020-04-13
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“I think the competitor to Instagram is people's fatigue with performing. It's maybe possible that we'll see a backlash to the idea that you always have to be on, that you always have to be thinking about your metrics. The Facebookization of society really, like Facebook is all about time spent, user growth, all these tools to measure success. And now we all have those tools in our own lives. Well, look where they led Facebook. Should we really be buying into it in that amount of with that amount of fervor and importance?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, right. And also make a product that's good. I mean, I think one of the things that gets lost in, I think good products always win in the end. And I think you can foist a shitty product on people that's just fine for a long, I think of Microsoft, I think of others, which is the minutes now it's successful is because their product is good. Their cloud product is good. People like it. It's not just a, you know, someone used to say you didn't get fired for buying Microsoft. I think that's the very worst thing you can say about a product. Like, it's just good enough. And I think that's the problem. And when you see things like TikTok or whatever else is coming and you see something that's delightful, you know the difference. You know, you know what is good and what is not good. And they may mess it up too in the same way. So is there anything out there? Last question in social media that's a competitor besides TikTok. Is there anything that you see that you're like, that's pretty cool, or what's catching on?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The company and their role in turning Instagram into what it is today. And it is not inevitable conclusion that Instagram would be as big as it is today. It's the product of all of these internal decisions about how to shape it so that we care about it. And so I hope what people start to understand after they read this is there is a lot of decision making that affects you and your life and how you perceive yourself and how you perceive other people and how you're sold to and how companies decide what products to put on the market and that when people Understand that, that they can make healthier decisions about how they use the product.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The product. The only thing that they're really doing that's with regards to the product is the shopping stuff. And so I think, I mean, I think that's risky. And so I think that what I hope happens is this book starts a conversation because when we look at the way Instagram has Has been talked about in the media. We talk about what people are doing there, like such and such celebrity claps back and so-and-so, you know, this person is doing this Instagram launch for the new product. This person announced their new baby or whatever. It's like the source of all the entertainment news now. We don't really talk about”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, what I predict is that there's going to be a reckoning for Instagram. In that they are not going to be prepared for it because they're not thinking about what could go wrong. They're thinking about growth. They're thinking about integrating with Facebook. Right now, a lot of the new stuff has been paused as everyone on the team figures out how to work with the Facebook guys and rebuild Instagram Direct to be under the messenger team and be encrypted. And like all of these goals that are not really about nothing.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The way that brands are interacting with people is by promising them fame. Like, you see a lot of brands like Huda Beauty, Glossier. Saying if you use our product, we might feature you. And people might get featured, then they get the followers, then they build up their own makeup business. Kids want to grow up to be influencers. It seems like it seems like the one career that you can have that doesn't require any sort of gatekeepers, any sort of traditional business rules. And some people are getting really successful with it. But yeah, it could fizzle. What”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, Instagram has to make sure that that's not what it ends up turning into because there's a lot of engagement. And by the way,”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, we have to make sure that as this transition happens, that Instagram doesn't just become brand shouting at brands to buy.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, that's true. That's true. I have no relationship with brands. Actually, I do. I like certain brands. I think because the brands I like represent a product that's great. And that's what's lost in the whole equation. So what's going to happen? I mean, there's all the contrary on TikTok and China, but the fact of the matter is it's a great product. And I think that's why it's successful. It's not successful because China's manipulating it's not successful. It's just a real, right now it's a really good, that might change. Another thing with Snapchat. I think the reason Mike could use it is a really good product. I think they've shot themselves in the foot over and over again. But you know what? It's a really good and he has an exquisite taste in products. Evan Spiegel. Same thing with Kevin. He had an exquisite taste in products and had a good sense of the pulse of what people wanted without punching down at people. So what is going to happen?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You're awesome. Just buy into the idea that people now are expected to have relationships with brands and that brands are”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You listen to them and go, oh, interesting. I'm like, oh, fuck you. You're awful, terrible people, and you need to stop immediately. And, you know, it's so funny that that's the thing, the old Instagram employees were trying to go for equality of product, fun experience, and the new ones are just like, let's, can we sell you something? Can we make you feel bad and can we sell you something and keep you pulled in by weird marketing me?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, what's happening right now is Instagram is kind of leaning into the commercialization of the product, which may be very risky, right? You're talking about like people don't go on Instagram to be real and fun and natural. Instagram, by the way, is advising brands and When I talk to early Instagram employees, this is like their biggest fear is that Instagram will turn into a mall. When I talk to current Instagram employees, they're like, Instagram is the new mall. Like you used to go to the mall and hang out with your friends. And you don't have to buy anything, but you go and you hang out and you see the cool shops. And like, you know, sometimes you go to the movies and stuff, like, what if you could do that on Instagram?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So, do you think that's the threat to it, TikTok, or something like it's the first one where it's actually enjoyable? I just was noticing a lot of celebrities are all on TikTok now, like J Lowe's doing the J-Lo challenge for her dance thing, which is delightful on TikTok. I don't see that happening on Instagram as much. What do they do to battle that if they can?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“A direct reaction to the amount of pressure there is on Instagram. And Instagram tried to solve this pressure by introducing stories, by the way. But stories have also become part of personal branding. And even though people are posting more often now than they do in the feed, helping increase those user numbers, right? TikTok is still a place where people go to be more raw and so do you think that's the thing?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, which is not good, which I think is ultimately not good, even though it's totally entertaining to look at. So last question, what happens? TikTok. Hello, TikTok. TikTok's really a great fun product, even if it's run by the Chinese and they're just spying on you. But I think Facebook is anyway.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was really interesting. I looked terrible. I was like, you're very handsome to hold beautiful man. Like, don't worry about it. Like, he's 14, but, you know, it was really interesting that he wouldn't do it. And I have to ask him every time. Now, I, of course, because I'm a sharon before you post. I'm a sharerant, so I can't be a sharon. He's giving me lectures about, I just had a baby. No, your man is Sharon. This is what you can't do. And I was like, okay, your fair point. But what was interesting is that none of us about fun. None of it's about enjoyment, which is, you know, it's about...”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Interesting. My 14 year old wouldn't post, didn't have any pictures on there because he couldn't find the right one. I thought, what is just put something up, have fun, but having fun was not part of it. It was really interesting. No, it has to be.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The people who win, some of them cheat their way to the top with fakeness and purchase comments and face-to-on all these tools that they have now and other people are looking at that success and comparing theirselves to it and not knowing what goes on behind the scenes.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The ultimate benchmarking tool. If you're the kind of person who wants to compare yourself to others, your personal worth, your relevance to others. It's going to let you do that. And the problem is, first of all”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“But I've talked to psychiatrists in Silicon Valley who say that Stanford students are anxious about having an interesting enough Instagram because they don't have an interesting enough Instagram. They're not going to be able to get good dates. They're not going to be able to get into the fraternities they need to get into in order to do the network they need to do in order to get a good job after college or talk to a young woman in LA who's too young to drink, but her Instagram following gets her into all the good clubs. So it's really become more structural now than you might think if you're not submersed in this culture. Right.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Everyone I think it's this is my girlfriend. This is my life. This is my this. And they absolutely not, an ounce of communication is done on it. You know what I mean? It's performative, which I think is interesting, which is fine to have two different places to do that.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The performative stuff is on Instagram The community has not been able to kill Snapchat. But the personal branding is on Instagram, and everyone's growing up today is so aware of what their personal brand is and how they're curating that.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which you might know from your sons, it is so integrated with how they go about their lives and how they see their own relevance.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a Twitter like model, exactly. Well, it really depends on what Facebook does with Instagram's power now. It's their thing to ruin. But what you do see when you look around the world, whether or not you use Instagram, you can see its effect on our world. You go to a restaurant, you have this open kitchen where you can see people cooking. the better lighting you have people who are designing food for you to be photographed and it almost matters more what it looks like than how it tastes you have people who are planning their weddings around instagram their travel around instagram and the younger generation”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's a Twitter like mod. It's a Twitter like model, exactly. So, one of the things that I find interesting with this idea is we just had Andrew Ross Sorkin on our pivot show, and he talked about how he thought everyone's going to be living with an Instagram. It's going to be it for Facebook. No one's going to use Facebook, or they will, but it will not be the place, the real action happens and where the real advertisers want to be, but it's sort of a utility the way Mark had originally conceived of Facebook versus Instagram, which is a place to be, which is the club, I guess. And he said you could do commerce on it. You'll be doing watching. You'll be doing, do you see that? I mean, and influencers are going to be there and nowhere else.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We're all about scale. We want to talk to millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people at a time with any product change, going to directly to Chris Jenner or Channing Tatum or what, and saying, here's how you should be using Instagram.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“For this kind of publicity, celebrity kind of work, because when you're Facebook and you're looking at this, you're thinking, why would we ever talk to one user?”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so Instagram, I think what we don't realize when we think about Instagram's impact on our culture is how directly the company has shaped that impact. And the most interesting character in this part of the story is Charles Porch, who is the head of partnerships at Instagram. And he's just the ultimate behind the scenes guy. He's taking celebrity calls, trying to figure out what they would like changed in the product, trying to figure out if they're having any issues posting, trying to get the big-name celebrities that aren't on Instagram yet to start using it, like the cast of friends joining in the last few years. All of those people are in constant conversation with the Instagram partnerships team and specifically Porch, who really started this all. And by the way, he tried to build this at Facebook for years with Randy Zuckerberg before.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So Instagram has really intentionally built up the influence that it has on society. I talked a little bit earlier. One day in 2013, there's this Instagram employee. His name is Dan Toffey. He runs a feature called the weekly fluff. And without this woman's warning, he just posts a picture of her dog on the Instagram tumblr and on the Instagram account. And immediately the dog goes viral. This woman's life is completely upended. And she would say a very positive way. She gets to quit her job and spend all her time traveling around the country Doing tour stops for her weird looking chihuahua dashin mix.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I Like the word. I was And by the way, Facebook thinks that that branding is going to work the opposite way, that because you love Instagram and you see Instagram by Facebook You're going to have fuzzy opinions about paperwork.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Why is it Revenue. And they have the revenues. You know, I use the expression they're so poor, all they have is money. They don't have an ability to understand that. I think everything is oriented towards growth and profit, and that's why. So they also added Facebook by Instagram, which I think is the single stupidest marketing move I've ever seen. It's like New Coke. I'm like, what? And actually, again, all my kids' friends are like, whoa, we don't like the word Facebook because they hate Facebook. They love Instagram. But now my son's like, I'm thinking of not using it just because it says it. I was like, why? And he goes, I don't want to be on Facebook. It was really interesting. It was a fascinating brand thing, but he did love Instagram and he uses it. He still uses it. And by the way,”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Afterthought in terms of the integrity issues, in terms of thinking about its impact on the world, when you hear these executives talk about these problems, the thing they say the most is like, well, we would love to fix that. We just don't have the resources. Why is it had Instagram doesn't have the resources? Facebook's profit margins are huge. Facebook's revenue is huge Instagram. I just had this scoop had about 20 billion in 2019 revenue.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, I think it's something that people need to understand because when you have seen what's happened to Facebook, then you have to think that something will come down the line for Instagram as well. And the fact that Instagram is becoming more like Facebook, but is Facebook's not even their first or second priority, but eventually they get attention to their problems. With maybe less resources, that's not good for society as more of our culture is tied to Instagram, as more of our human behavior is tied to Instagram, as it's really affecting the way the world works, to have it be”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And if you look at your Instagram, you're getting a lot more notifications. You're getting a lot more recommendations. You're getting a lot more growth hacking type stuff. And you're getting a lot more ads. Right. And so it's really growing more in Facebook's image now.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now is former Facebook. Former Facebook people, but they're also Mark Acolytes, really. And Mark hangs the moon for these people. And I find they're often very twitchy around any criticism or anything like that, but everything Mark says is right. And these are the people who are put in charge. Very competent people, by the way, smart people, but not the same kind of sort of spirited entrepreneurs.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah. Yeah. It was quite something. You know, I had had coffee with him, and he never said anything, but I left the mating, and I think I said to someone, he's leaving, I can tell. He just couldn't, like, it was astonishing that something so successful was being attacked so much. And the only analogy I can make is when we were at the journal, when we did really well with All Things, we got so much flack. And it was sort of like we're growing. Like, what are you doing? And I remember thinking, oh, it's jealousy. We don't ever knew, but it was really that feeling. And that's one of the reasons, one of the many reasons. So they leave and then everything changes. They put very, I don't mean to insult these Facebook executives, but it's very culty there. They're very mark-centric. They're very like...”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The same day he's back, everyone in the room is excited to see them. It's been a really stressful time because they've had to figure out how to grow without Facebook. And they say they're leaving”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He goes on paternity leave. He realizes none of those things have happened and that he's being set up to fail. And so then.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He came back Yes. He went on paternity leave. He stayed for longer than was expected, but he was really... Doing a lot of meaning with mentors, trying to understand what his options were. At the beginning of the year, when Chris Cox, who's the chief product officer of Facebook, becomes Instagram's boss, at first the founders are a little concerned because Chris Cox is one of the guys who's on this cannibalization train trying to figure out. But once he becomes Instagram's boss, Instagram's on his team, and he's like, I'm going to do, this is going to be my top priority this year to retain you and Mike. And Kevin's like, that's great as long as you can promise us that we will have independence, that if these things are coming down the pike, that we'll know about them, we'll have a conversation about them.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then Kevin and Mike realized they are not in a position where they are the boss anymore. Kevin is not the CEO of Instagram and maybe over the last couple years he just hasn't been. And Zuckerberg is the only one in charge. And Zuckerberg is really consolidating power at this point and trying to build a mega network. And it doesn't seem like... If they stay, they'd have any ability to make the changes they want to make.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It was a painful year, 2018, because Instagram is. Is coming into their own. They're reaching this incredible global impact with more than a billion users for the first time. And Facebook is a little bit resentful. And even Zuckerberg's even a little bit jealous of this rise. They basically tell Instagram we have this list of all the ways that you are helping you grow and we have been helping you grow. We're letting you advertise on our site. We're letting you have links back. We're letting you use our friend, all these things. Going to cut them off. And what's interesting is Instagram then has to go into a growth lockdown to figure out how to grow without Facebook's help, which is pretty crazy. With your parent company being Facebook.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sketchy things on Instagram. Yeah. Opioid sales, for example, cyberbullying, people recruiting for ISIS. They have everything. It's the internet. They have it all. And on Instagram, it's much harder to find because it doesn't go viral. There's no resharing. And so you really need to be proactive about looking for those communities that are hashtag based on Instagram. And they wanted to do it. And Facebook, specifically Zuckerberg said, No, if you want to do this stuff, you have to work with Facebook corporate. With our integrity team. They're always going to be the second priority.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is calling them piss because the logo looks too much like the Facebook Messenger logo. I mean, it's just petty thing after petty thing. The worst thing that happens is when Instagram wants headcount, they get blocked. And that really, at a time when they're seeing Facebook go through these struggles with how they've been policing their platform and how they've sort of, they haven't been proactive about the problems before they happen. Instrument is thinking, well, we should really get ahead of these problems. We need people to look into this. And Facebook says, no, you're going to have to.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Now, when people see that photo on Facebook, it doesn't say it came from Instagram. It looks like it's a Facebook. It looks like a Facebook post, and Facebook's had trouble getting people to post organically on Facebook. There's that. And the funniest thing is when Instagram launches IGTV, Zuckerberg is...”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He manages out the founders. And he cuts off all kinds of things. He cuts off all these things. It's death by a thousand cuts. He cuts off the attribution for when you post a photo on Instagram and it shares automatically to Facebook.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, but they have an opportunity to disrupt themselves quote unquote with Instagram, and they didn't Zuckerberg didn't want that. When the data came back showing that basically there was a little bit of trade-off letting people use Instagram over Facebook, but overall it was good for the overall company. They read the data Zuckerberg, who's like the king of reading data to make decisions, read it in an emotional charged way and decided that, well, I think that this still, like what happens over the long term? Maybe eventually Facebook goes to zero and all this activity goes to Instagram and we just can't have that.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And then, and actually, Zuckerberg has said this as much in his rhetoric to employees. Like, if we don't disrupt ourselves, somebody will come and disrupt us. But they had an opportunity to disrupt themselves with Instagram.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which totally flies in the face of what Instagram thinks, which is like we should give people the opportunity to choose what their interests are. We shouldn't try to manipulate their behavior in this way. And so what happens is they run this big study. Like, is time spent on Instagram cannibalizing Facebook? And it's really this point in the story where you realize that the way that they think about Facebook, the social network, is very different than how they think about Facebook Inc. The best thing for Facebook Inc. probably would have been to just let those people go to Instagram.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, a user minute on Instagram wasn't as profitable as a user minute on Facebook. So if you can decide whether to send somebody.”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which basically is if you look at Instagrams' usage, Is this usage better served on Facebook? The way Facebook thinks about your time is you only have a certain amount of minutes in the day. We want to make sure that you spend as many of those minutes on Facebook as possible. And if you're spending minutes on Instagram As a reason to not spend minutes on Facebook, that's a threat to the future of our business. And when they say our business, they mean Facebook, the core app, which is still monetizing at a higher rate than Instagram. So he really felt like Facebook was under threat because of Instagram's rise. More so than election interference, more so than any of the content problems. This is really what's running through Zuckerberg's head. End of 2016”
2020-04-13 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Frier · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT