YouSaid · the spoken record

Sarah Kendzior

lines on the record: 65
first: 2020-04-24
most recent: 2020-04-24
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“It's interesting. I'll be on politics and froze nights. It's very strange. Oh, and one last thing, of course, I host a weekly podcast or co-host one, Gaslit Nation, which you can find wherever podcasts are available.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm on Twitter at Sarah Kenzier. Also my website, SarahKenzier.com. I write sometimes for the Globe and Mail in Canada, but Twitter is probably the best place to find me.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Oh, yeah, many, many times, you know, and so have others. I'm used to it, but a lot of people aren't used to it and it gets, they get chased out of public discourse. And that is our public sphere nowadays. And so there's an immense responsibility for people working there. And I think a lot of these tech companies aren't treating their workers right. You know, I hear about workers getting PTSD from having to monitor these types of forums. So I think that they need to be gentler, those workers, think about their conditions. Those workers can then think about our conditions. I think we need to treat this as a sensitive and serious problem and get rid of this idea that, oh, it's just the internet. Oh, it doesn't matter as if this doesn't cause real damage to people and real harm because it does. You know, it's harmed our whole political system that Donald Trump is a product of that as well. So folks should keep that in mind.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I wish the tech companies would expand so that there's more of a human element behind who's monitoring online forums and social media, reacting to things like threats, mob harassment, things like that that often aren't taken seriously. People file reports and they're just kind of packed away.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Giant systemic crisis. We have a lot of interlinked systemic crises, and it's really hard in that kind of context to give advice, especially since the economic and public health situations are so unstable. So for a lot of people, I mean, I'm just saying like just do the best you can in the circumstances that we have and recognize that it is difficult and you're not screwing up. You're not being a bad person or doing something wrong if you're not, you know, charging through at full throttle. Like a lot of us are just trying to hang on and sometimes that's all you can really do.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Some of these are just big kind of level problems like dark money, the infusion of dark money into campaigns. And I'm not sure how ordinary folks can really combat that, but the government should certainly be keeping an eye on it, watchdog groups. There should be as much transparency as possible. I think debunking propaganda and doing it effectively, you know, calling out a lie is a lie and not getting caught up in kind of really trivial infighting. I think there's a healthy place for debate. I'm not saying we all need to be uniform or conforming or whatever. Like we should be able to argue about different issues and what we think is best for our country. But there's so much pettiness and gossip that dominates conversation about this, especially in the media and on Twitter and often the media reflects what's happening on Twitter more than it reflects what's on the ground. I think we can maybe avoid that as much as possible and look to the big picture. But yeah, I mean, we have.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And in terms of where we're going to get in terms of the Democratic Party and moving towards these elections, what are the things to watch for? Voter suppression, which is you're already seeing in Wisconsin there was an attempt and the use of the Supreme Court, what other things to ensure that we have needs to happen to ensure that we need to have free and fair elections or as free as possible. I think we have to be.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, one thing I've always encouraged is just for people to look out for their local community. It can feel like the entire weight of the world is on your shoulders, that there are so many problems and it's overwhelming you. And I think when people act locally and they look out for who is in need in their immediate vicinity and they rely on the skills that they already had, then that's more positive. I mean, not everyone is good at the same thing. Not everyone is comfortable doing the same thing, but I think that everyone has something to offer and we all live in different places. And that's just a much more practical way of getting a lot of things done. So, you know, I encourage people to think for themselves, to look out for the most vulnerable in their own communities. And if you, you know, you don't know what to do, then be kind, be helpful. See where that leads you. It doesn't always need to be like, I'm forming a mass movement now. Like you can do a small part and if everyone does a small part, you know, that can add up to something really big.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“When you think about that, I want you to end on sort of some of the things people can do because I'd like it to end on a positive note, I hate to say. I know people, journalists always do that, but I think it always helps people. What are some of the things they can do? I think all of us understand the crisis earn, and I think coronavirus has shown every bit of this administration in a very quick time, all the parts of it that are so negative for our country and dangerous. But talk about what people can do.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“It's very hard to predict that just because of the ramifications of the virus, even if it is gone or sort of goes down, we managed to flatten the curve and whatnot. We're going to be living with the psychological shock of it, the economic shock of it, with people trying to get on their feet. The things I was initially worried about at the election were the same things for 2016 that were never resolved, which is domestic voter suppression.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I'm saying if we're capitalists on the way up, are we capitalists on the way down? Are we socialists on the way down, which is interesting? So when you look at the upcoming election, what are the things people have to watch out for then? We have only a few months, and it's going to be a very truncated time period because, you know, I suspect this will things will get better. It seems like those are the trends given the social distancing seems to be doing a relatively, you know, I mean, there's nothing to be done about a vaccineless virus. Right. But what do you think the next few months hold for the election and going forward?”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“We just have a complete rearrangement of society. Whatever we are after this will not resemble what came before. So I hope that those who have a positive vision for the future sees this moment to try to spread their ideas, which I do think people are recognizing are not so radical, not so crazy. You know, things like universal basic income are just simply raising the minimum wage, things like that.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I think it cultivates empathy to a degree. I mean, I also think everyone is exhausted and frightened and that can bring out a lot of bad qualities in people. But to some extent, we're in the same boat. I mean, in many ways, we're not because there are people who don't have the choice to work from home. They have to get out on the street. They're vulnerable to the virus. But, you know, we've all had our daily lives disrupted in an incredible way. You know, we're all being held captive to this spectacle of rising fascism in a terrible way. And I hope at least there's a time for reflection and for trying to, you know, reach across and form alliances and, you know, try to have a proactive discussion about what needs to be done from here because, you know, the idea of going back to normal was never realistic before, but certainly after this, if you have 30% of the country unemployed, if you have, you know, people dying alone, unable to have fewer.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Is there a positive thing to come out of the that could happen with the coronavirus, people working together, people doing things, people understanding that they have two weeks to go, understanding their vulnerabilities, which of course is the first step? Yeah.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The opportunity to do so and not being so completely suppressed by this administration that they're not able to carry out what I think are noble ambitions. And if there's a bright side to this crisis, I think folks do realize how undervalued so many of the workers of our society are, service workers, medical workers, teachers, how difficult people's lives are, how they need to have more money, more stability, more of a safety net, and how easy it is for any of us to fall in this situation, how quick it is for things to fall apart. And so if we recognize that vulnerability, then we may be more proactive in preventing future crises to come.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, I think it's good that governors like him and the governors of Michigan and Washington are trying to work together to stop what is essentially a heist of medical materials by the federal government, which itself is an insane thing and I think needs to just be spelled out and emphasized more. What I hope doesn't come out of this is this sort of facetious red blue divide because yes, you certainly see that on a state level, on a legislature level, like with my governor of Missouri being a perfect example of inept and terrible government for all of us who live here. But I didn't vote for him a lot of my state. Well, no one voted for him because he replaced our indicted governor from before. But there are people all over this country who are trying to work together, trying to help their communities, often in unheralded roles. You know, not all of them are famous, not all of them have money or prestige, but they do want to work for the better good. It's just a matter of them getting.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I'm going to make you be positive because you were positive at the end of this book about the idea of community building and the ability to do this. Where do you see the political pockets? You do see governors resisting. You see Gavin Newsom like, you know what? I'm not going to rely. I'm not going to let you get us mad at each other. We're going to create our own little coalition. You know, that to me, he's fascinating how he's playing this thing in a state that's critically important to the nation in terms of economic resurgence, California has always been important in that regard. Talk a little bit about that. Is there a counterweight to that, to the idea of that?”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“These are people who worked with terrorists. These are also war criminals. We've had war criminals like John Bullton in this administration. This is really the worst of humanity. And of course, white supremacists. And that will be the biggest victim of this. That's been the biggest victim of this administration the whole time are Americans who aren't white. Our Americans who are immigrants, Americans who are LGBT citizens, just any kind of marginalized or vulnerable group, they were targeted from the start and their rights continue to be stripped away. And that will keep happening only. It'll expand to encompass all the people who thought that they were safe, all the people thought, oh, this can't happen to me or, you know, this isn't that big a risk. It's a huge risk and we could lose our democracy. And there's other scenarios I see, like possibly the secession of states, you know, the use of these migrant camps that they've created to put dissidents inside the typical things that you would see in a”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Case scenario, I mean, election wise is that the Democrats form a broad progressive coalition are able to work together, speak in plain terms about the severity of the crisis that we're facing, put out solutions, reach out to voters. You know, the media begins to reflect this, begins to air those points of view, begins to air dissenting points of view, and is not enthralled to the Trump mafia. The worst case scenarios are so awful. I don't even, I'm not sure I even want to go there. I mean, basically the implementation of full fascism with Bill Barr, I think, is the architect of that, Mitch McConnell is another. There are also theocratic elements within this administration like Mike Pence, Mike Pompeo, you know, that want us to be a yeah, and Bill Barr, a handmaid's tale kind of society, but we also have a crime element. These are people who have worked in child trafficking. These are people who were linked to Jeffrey.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Talk about, I think, you know, the solution to that because it is a genuine public health threat is to vote by mail. And you're already seeing the Republicans reacting to that by wanting to close down the post office by July, by saying that this opens the door to voter fraud. They're very proactive. You know, they think many moves ahead. And I don't understand why the Democrats tend to be so many moves behind because my observation here is not unique. Almost all election integrity experts are saying the same thing as me, that we need”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, it puts them at risk in terms of how people view him. I think people are more and more seeing that this is indeed malice. There is a reluctance to admit that in the first couple months of this crisis. And as it's been a consistent pattern of terrible behavior, I think people have realized, yes, he doesn't care if Americans die. And he's not afraid of the repercussions of that politically. And that's really the crucial thing. This is true for the Republican Party as a whole. They don't care if they lose voters. They haven't been acting like they've cared about that for four years. They put forward tremendously unpopular policies, once at their own base hates, you know, things about healthcare. And they don't care. And I think that's because they don't expect to have a free and fair election. They've never expected to have that. And now, of course, there's the question of how will this election even be conducted at all if we have coronavirus.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of the things obviously has been hit is the economy, and that's been something that's been a plus for him with those middle voters. I'm not talking about the base voters. It's the ones that are like, we'll take him because they make more money, essentially. I have a lot of relatives like that. They're like, well, I don't like them, but I'm doing better kind of thing. It's very common. I think that's much more common than anything else. Like, what's the difference if he says bad things about women slash people of color slash people with disabilities, whatever, you know, I mean, like, I'm ignoring him. I don't think that, that kind of stuff. What happens then with the economy being the way it is? Does it put him at risk? Even though you say he wants to crash the economy?”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Sick is that? Like, how depraved is that? But that is the situation we're in. And what's frightening is that, you know, citizens have lost so much of their freedom and so much of their leverage due to this crisis. And I'm hoping that at least on a public health level, that aspect maybe is temporary and will regain our freedom of movement, which will give us back our freedom of assembly, which will allow us to protest, to vote, to gather together, to organize. But right now, I think we're in trauma. We're in collective trauma and shock over what is happening in those conditions. Sometimes it's just hard to get through the day, let alone try to overthrow your tyrannical government. So we're in for tough times.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they love to be thought of that way. They love to be thought of as inept and incompetent and bumbling because that way no one will hold them accountable for what they do. And Trump doesn't mind bad press. He doesn't mind if people call him a buffoon or a jackass or whatever. They just don't want to call, he doesn't want to be called a criminal and he doesn't want to actually be arrested. And I think with coronavirus, I think he let, or they, I should say, because there's many people involved in this, they let the virus spread. They let people suffer. They let people die, and they've been denying people necessary medical equipment. And we know this. He has treated it like a game show. He's treating it like a reality show with a literally captive audience. That's what we are in our houses now, you know, watching the Trump propaganda hour that no cable news network should actually be playing in real time every day while states battle each other for medical equipment necessary for the survival of its citizens. Like, how.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Right, so talk a little bit about what happens in this coronavirus crisis, because this is sort of one of the things I was struck by something I think you told Vogue magazine was that it's not incompetence, it's masked as incompetence when it's malice, it's masked as lots of stuff is masked. Scandal is masks crime, corruption.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, the criminality and corruption of the Trump administration to which so many express shock has been hiding in plain sight the whole time. He's been committing crimes openly. You know, this is a transnational crime syndicate masquerading as a government. And folks shouldn't be so shocked because the evidence was always there. And that's one of the biggest frustrations of it because as we were discussing before, it comes down to accountability and action more than information. We have the information. The question is, what do we do with it?”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, there's definitely pluses in that people who otherwise would have trouble communicating on a national or an international scale are able to do so. They can form new relationships. They can form new organizations. They can exchange information. A lot of the information put together by Trump was really a communal effort of people digging up old articles and so forth. But yes, I think the architecture of the internet, especially of social media sites, it lends itself to just exploit the worst aspects of human beings. And this is actually what I wrote my dissertation on when I was studying Uzbekistan. I wrote that when you have a political culture that”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That he has this intra Like, we're all just insisting, yeah, it's very condescending. I agree. I find it, I'm always like, whenever those stories, I'm almost like, no, they're a lot smarter than you think. And it's not. It's always a mistake. One of the things years ago when people kept talking about George Bush being so stupid, I'm like, well, he's kind of president and you're not. being at a party and say i was like let's not go for dumb initially let's go for other things i'm gonna go back to tech for a second and then i want to talk about what's coming in the next section what do you imagine tech's responsibility here that you know the prevalence of social media the twitchy culture the the instant is there a way to use that for a good because it seems to be it plays into autocratic thinking is this the twitchiness the ability i always say there's nothing an autocrat loves more than the internet it's it's a perfect vehicle for propaganda it's perfect vehicle for confusion for entertainment”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“One of them, an anti Hillary Clinton vote. So, this whole idea that he has this intractable. That was my brother base, those are the folks who go to a Trump rally. Of course, they go to a Trump rally. It's like the same people who go to a rock concert because they're like super fans. They're not really indicative of the average American. I think plenty of people could be persuaded if they know the truth. There are people who've written to me who said, you know, I voted for him, but I've changed my mind and, you know, you and others helped sort of show me some things about him that I really dislike. And, you know, I'm moving in another direction now. You know, and I think that's good. Like critical thinking can get people through this. And I don't think there are people out there that are incapable of critical thought, which is how a lot of people treat, you know, either Trump supporters or just treat Americans in general like we're all just inspired. Yeah, it's very condescending.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Which is kind of interesting. Yeah, it's always weird to me when people refer to his base as 40% of the country or 30% because I think kind of his hardcore, you know, never abandon him kind of supporters, that's a pretty low amount of the population. I put it at maybe between 5 and 10%, if that. And I live in Missouri. You know, he comes here repeatedly because he knows he can draw a crowd. He can get a fervent rally, at least in the pre-coronavirus era. But I don't ever see it reflected in real life. And I'll talk to conservatives. I meet plenty of people who just, they hate the Democrats, they hate liberals. They're very concerned with guns. They're very anti-abortion. You know, sometimes people are only voting on single issues. Sometimes people are broadly disillusioned with everyone. And one thing I noticed when I was covering the election in 2015 and 2016 was the utter lack of enthusiasm for either candidate and that so many people were not casting a pro-Donald Trump vote. They're casting for whatever reason and misogyny was.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So what keeps that base of his together from your perspective is that part of me is I'm like, I meet a lot of people. They're not like that. Like it's an interesting thing. It's sort of this idea that he can't lose his space. It's much more complex and nuanced than that. And it's also much more to be persuaded. I don't know how else to put it. Like they are persuadable, which is kind of interesting.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And a Stephen King novel, honestly, at this point, but that's what it is, and we have to figure out a way to deal with it. And I still do believe in organization and in community and in people helping each other. You know, I believe in the principles of our democracy. I don't think they're being practiced. But I think that, you know, most people aren't like Trump and his cohort. Most people don't want this way of life. And we just have to figure out, you know, how to get rid of them and realize it's a tough road ahead. So many autocracies have gone down this road, but in the end people have persevered. And so you just have to sort of, you know, keep looking to that future”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Stop him, or the courts will stop him. Nobody stopped him. And I don't know how to get people to actually do it. You know, of course, you know, we're dealing with an organized crime operation. That's what this is the heart. And we've seen so many examples of people who've been threatened. The impeachment hearings were full of people testifying that their lives are threatened, whether it's Maria Ivanovich, Fiona Hill, Alexander Vinman. We saw Michael Cohen the year before go under oath and say, yes, I threatened people on behalf of Donald Trump at least 500 times. I mean, that's how they are. And so of course everyone is in a terrible bind where they're scared for their lives and they may really want to do the right thing, but they can't. But we have to try. And I do think that, you know, the first road to that is just telling the truth is being very blatantly honest about how bad things are and accepting, you know, this is unfortunately our reality. Like, and yes, it sucks that our reality sounds like a mix between a Tom Clancy novel and a John Lacarno.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, and I think a lot of that shock, I think that's feigned shock because in order to dodge accountability, you have to be surprised. If you can predict it, then you can prevent it, you know, which is why people like me are incredibly annoying to those sorts of people. Like they view me as a pain in the ass. And maybe I am. But that's the thing is Trump and his cohort, they often announce their ambitions in advance. You know, they announce horrible things that they're going to do to immigrants, to marginalized communities to our country as a whole. You know, there's a tape from Fox News in 2014 of Trump saying that he wants to crash the economy. He wants riots, that Putin is his best friend, and this is how he's going to make America great again. Like he laid out the whole scheme. And people got very upset when I began circulating that clip when he was running for president. They, you know, began to panic. And then there was just a dismissal like, okay, he didn't really mean it. Or if he got into power, checks and balances will.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So what to do that if there are attempts to do it, again, people understand it, and you do. It's sort of crimining in plain sight. Nobody would contemplate a crime in plain sight. And I think nobody would contemplate. It was interesting. At some point, there was a really good SNL skit or something else like that. Like, I can't believe he did that. And I think it was making fun of that, but I was watching CNN a minute later. And there was a whole panel, I can't believe he did it. And I literally was screaming at the thing, like, believe he did it. Like, stop. It was really interesting how that works. And it's a psychological issue. I'm not a psychologist. But one of the things that's interesting about it is that people continue to live in the image of American exceptionalism and, oh, it'll get fixed. And, oh, Carol Damblers will be here to fix it for us, you know, to save the day kind of idea where it doesn't. There's no saving the day necessarily. Yeah.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, there has to be a lot. Real accountability. I mean, I think that's the thing Trump doesn't mind being caught. He just doesn't want to be punished. And that's the same thing of his whole crew. I mean, certainly someone like Roger Stone, they exalt in it. They love being the villain as long as nothing actually happens to them. And that means losing their material assets and being incarcerated. That is what actually matters. And that's what hasn't been done because you're right. There's been a great deal of reporting. Like my book has thousands of footnotes. Like how was that possible? It's because plenty of other people went out and did investigative reporting and examined all sorts of facets of this that I tried to string together in one place. So yeah, plenty of individual people are doing their part. It's institutions that are failing and it's those at the highest levels of those institutions that I think are failing the most.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“So I want to push back a little bit on the lack of trying. There has been attempts. I've seen so many amazing, much amazing reporting on whether it's his taxes and tax fraud, whether it's Mueller trying, like the Democrats trying to impeach him. It doesn't work. Like it's really interesting. And I think it is a little bit borne out of, I think you're right about that it's putting it on the normal scale and you lose. When people are like, we have to really get along with, say, the right wing. I'm like, no, we don't. Like, we don't. That's the game they're playing is we playing into our natural humans' natural proclivity to want to try to get along or try to normalize people. And I'm always like, no, let's just not. Let's not let's not cooperate. Let's not do that. Although that's no answer either, you know what I mean? At some point, someone has to.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“There's been, but the problem with the gaslighting is in the book I call normalcy bias is all these people who just act like, oh, he's the president and he's going to pivot or this isn't that bad or it'll get cleared up or someone's going to save the day. Like none of that's happening. None of that was going to happen. But now we really definitively know none of that's happening because it's 2020. It's not 2016 anymore. So there's no excuse for these networks and politicians to go on pretending that things are normal or that they can just magically revert to quote unquote normal. Because first of all, normal wasn't that great. But also we have dug ourselves into a hole that is so deep. It's a chasm. Like it's going to take a lot. I don't know, a long time to come out.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, I think it comes down to a question of power and who wields it because I think the American public is very well aware that the kind of capitalism we've experienced is not freedom from a free market. You know, it hasn't led to opportunities for most of us. It's led to debt. It's led to struggle. You know, there's a possibility, like, you know, what Elizabeth Warren wanted to do of trying to gut out corruption, trying to reform it from within, trying to allow people the freedom of free enterprise without sacrificing themselves to a bunch of heartless plutocrats, which has been the reality. And yes, I do think a lot of people are aware of exactly who Trump is and what his cohort are about.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“You use the expression disaster capitalism because what's interesting is there's the other, the alternate reality, which is compassionate capitalism, which is being debated. Is that just a feint or do you feel like disaster capitalism, which is I think a lot of people are addressing? There's a lot of people discussing it. It's not unknown that the Russians were quite involved in this election. Does it matter that it's like when I was joking about gaslit nation, if you know you're being gaslit, are you being gaslit? Are you? which is an interesting question. Yeah.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of this are going to linger for decades. I doubt we're going to see a positive result of this for the rest of my life. Our state secrets are being sold on a black market. Our country is being collapsed from within. And Trump and his cohort were very overt about that. You know, he comes from a line of corporate raiders. He also comes from a line of people like Roy Cohn or Carl Icon, people who just saw the law as something to be manipulated, who saw the economy as something that should be crashed because when you crash it, you pick up the pieces and you rebuild it in your image and you make a profit. And of course, Naomi Klein and others, you know, have discussed that kind of disaster capitalism in great detail. It's now being done to nations. You see it worldwide here, the UK, Hungary, Turkey, Russia, that's the model.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“True with a lot of people in Trump's world, whether it's Paul Manafort or Michael Cohen or Felix Sater, or of course Jared and Ivanka, who are nearly indicted for fraud themselves in 2012. And so one of the questions that I've really struggled with this whole time is why didn't anyone stop him when he was running? Because this is clearly a national security threat. And it's one that the FBI knew about very well. It's one that the Obama administration knew about. It's one all of our intelligence agencies knew about. And there's some belief that, you know, Trump probably traded favors with a lot of these courts and these agencies in order to keep himself out of trouble. But I keep thinking, you know, at what cost, you know, if you're making deals with the mafia, like to try to roll up the bigger player, at what cost to the American public? Why would you let a figure like Donald Trump get classified national security briefings? I mean, even if we got rid of him, the rep”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, basically, what you see are some key figures like Semyon Mogalevich, who is the head of the Russian mafia. If you read the book, Red Mafia by Robert I. Freeman, you know, which I believe came out in 2000, he predicts that this guy's organization is going to become an enormous threat to democracy worldwide. Because as a result of the collapse of the Soviet Union, you saw their criminals, you know, their criminal elements were no longer kept there. They were able to leave and they were able to operate and they did things like get involved in New York real estate, Florida real estate, casinos, all of the businesses that Donald Trump was engaged in. And when Donald Trump went bankrupt multiple times in the late 80s and early 90s, it was the Russian mafia that bailed him out. And so they have been in his corner backing him for a long time. And he has been returning the favor by helping with money laundering. And the same thing is.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The AIDS fight. I remember a lot of the, you know, James Watt. No one remembers James Watt. He was the Interior Secretary who said trees cause pollution. You know, this has been building for a very long time. So talk a little bit about this concept because I think when we make him into abnormal, it excuses our responsibility for understanding that this was long in coming.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That denied us opportunities, with the exceptions of the Jared and Avankas of the world who had purchased merit, who bought their ways into places. We become an increasingly nepotistic society. We've become a place that is, you know, we were never completely structured on merit. But what we've seen is a lot of people working hard, doing the quote-unquote right things, and being locked out of different industries due to credentialism, due to expenses. And we've seen a lot of loss of knowledge and expertise along the way. And that's also contributed to this terrible situation. So I basically trace that up to the present day. I don't focus as much on his administration, but as the conditions that led to it. And it is, of course, it's emerging during a plague. My book comes out during a plague as I talk about all these other disasters. And it has a bit of an apocalyptic tone that I think people might have found hyperbolic last year when I was writing it, but unfortunately it hits the”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“My new book Hiding in Plain Sight, it's actually a history. It's looking back at the last 40 years of American history. Part of it is Trump's rise, you know, in the various institutions that enabled him and helped make that possible. It brings up a lot of journalism that was done in the 80s and 90s that I was very disappointed did not was not highlighted again during his run. I also talked broadly about the erosion of American institutions basically going back to the Reagan era, you know, the loss of opportunities, the way opportunities are hoarded by the elite crises that we endured like 9-11 or the financial collapse in 2008 are things that I experienced firsthand like the uprising in Ferguson. And so that's like the other component of this is that it's an autobiography because Donald Trump and people like him have been looming over my whole life. It's people like him that shaped the contours of my life, you know, and my generation.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“News networks like Fox. I think that's just as influential as social media. Social media played a huge role, but I really think Fox and AM Radio, Rush Limbaugh, that sort of pre-existing conservative media culture, that played an enormous role too, because it's a matter of trust. And by 2015, 2016, people trusted those networks. They looked to them for support. And they are also very gifted at propaganda. They do what they do very well.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“He uses it like a typical propagandist, it's repetition, it's slogans, it's simple, it's clear direct language, you know, full of lies. That doesn't mean it's honest or good. There's some excellent quality to it, but it's effective. It's memorable. And unfortunately, the Democrats and people tried to counter him haven't known how to do that. They'll just be like, oh, he's so dumb or oh, he misspelled this word, which is just the wrong thing to focus on. You focus on the lie. What you should do is you tell the truth. then you point out that he lied, then you explain why he lied. What is he trying to get out of the situation? Who is he really working for? Is he working for the public? Or is he working for Donald Trump and his bank account or his foreign backers, which is really the case? And I think a lot of people, you know, another thing that contributed to this was algorithmic bubbles, you know, whether it's just people only following their friends and not getting a full amount of information, but also just the tendency for people to follow.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“How do you assess the impact of social media? This is something you've been around on Twitter a lot of all things. But when you were doing Flyer Country, he was sort of appealing, he was giving messaging to people by going there and by listening to their grievances and sort of saying them back to them. I think that's what was really effective is saying back their grievances, but not coming up with a solution is often really super effective. Talk about his use of Twitter in the campaign and since then.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Always kind of sycophantic access journalism. But occasionally, a real question would get through just as occasionally a real question.”
2020-04-24 · Decoder with Nilay Patel · Recode Decode: Sarah Kendzior · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT