YouSaid · the spoken record

Satya Nadella

lines on the record: 80
first: 2025-11-12
most recent: 2025-11-12
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Yeah, so it's a great question. I mean, in fact, you just made the point of why I think trust in American tech is probably the most important feature. It's not even the model capability. Maybe it is like, can I trust you, the company? Can I trust you, your country, and its institutions to be a long-term supplier may be the thing that wins the world.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I don't want to sort of describe it as somehow we are uniquely privileged. I would just say I think of that as a business requirement that we have been doing all the hard work all these decades and we planned to. And so my answer to Dylan's previous question was I take these, you know, whether it's in the United States, quite frankly, when the White House and the USG says, hey, we want you to allocate more of your, I don't know, wafer starts to fabs in the US, we take that seriously, or whether it is data center and the EU boundary. We take that seriously. So to me, respecting what I think are legitimate reasons why countries care about sovereignty and building for it as a software and a physical plant is what I would say we are going to do.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They're going to be kicked out of the United States. And the same thing is going to be true in every other country too. And so therefore, I think we have to as companies respect what the lessons learned are, you know, whether it's you could say the pandemic woke us up or whatever. But nevertheless, people are saying, look, globalization was fantastic. It helped the supply chains being globalized and be super efficient, but there's such a thing called resilience. And we are happy, you know, we want resilience. And so therefore that feature will get built. At what pace, I think the point you're making, it can't be like you can't snap your fingers and say all the TSMC plants now are all in Arizona and with all of the capability, they're not going to be. But is there a plan? There will be a plan. And should we respect that? Absolutely. And so I feel that's the world. I want to meet the world where it is and what”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's kind of like Dylan saying, hey, at this point, we've not learned anything about sort of what resilience means and what one needs to do, right? So it's kind of Any nation state, including the United States, at this point will do what it takes to be more self sufficient on some of these critical supply chains. So I as a multinational company have to think about that as a first class requirement, right? If I don't, then I'm not respecting what is in the sort of policy interests of that country.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Concentration risk and sovereignty, right, which is real agency. Those are the two things I think that will drive the market structure.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But that said, they will want continuity of that, right? So, in some sense, that's one of the reasons why I believe there is always going to be a check a little bit to sort of some of your points on, hey, can this one model have all the runaway deployment? That's why open source is always going to be there. There will be, by definition, multiple models. That will be one way. Like it's kind of, you know, that's one way for people to sort of demand continuity and not have concentration risk is another way to say it is, right? And so you say, hey, I'll bond multiple models and then I want an open source. So I feel as long as that's there, every country will feel like, okay, I don't have to worry about deploying the best model and broadly diffusing because I can always take what is my data and my liquidity and move it to another model, whether it's open source or from another country or what have you.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ultimately, I think what matters is the use of AI in their economy to create economic value, right? I mean, that's the diffusion theory, which is ultimately, it's not the leading sector, but it's the ability to use the leading technology to create your own comparative advantage, right? So that, I think, will fundamentally be the core driver.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And guarantees on privacy and so on. And so, in fact, our European commitments, I think, are worth reading, right? So we made a series of commitments to Europe on how we will really govern our hyperscale investment there such that really European Union and the European countries have sovereignty. We are also building sovereign clouds in France and in Germany. We have something called sovereign services on Azure, which literally give people key management services along with confidential computing, including confidential computing in GPUs, which we have done great innovative work with NVIDIA. And so I think I feel very, very good about being able to build both technically and through policy this trust in the American tech stack.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Sector jointly does to, quite frankly, for example, put our own capital at risk collectively as an industry in every part of the world, right? So I would like, in fact, the USG to take credit for foreign direct investment by American companies all over the world, right? It's kind of like least talked about, but the best marketing that the United States should be doing is it's not just about all the foreign direct investment coming into the United States, but the most leading sector, which is these AI factories, are all being created all over the world by whom? By America, an American companies. And so you start there, and then you even build other agreements around it, which are around their continuity, their legitimate sovereignty concerns around whether it's data residency, whether it's even what happens for them to have real agency.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Because I always say the United States is just an unbelievable place, it's just unique in history. It's 4% of the world's population, 25% of the GDP, and 50% of the market cap. And I think you should think about those ratios and really and reflect on it. That 50% happens because, quite frankly, the trust the world has in the United States, whether it's its capital markets or whether it's its technology and its stewardship of what matters at any given time in terms of leading sector. So if that is broken, then that's not a good day for the United States. And so if we start with that, which I think President Trump gets, the White House, David Sachs, everyone really, I think gets it. And so therefore I applaud anything that the United States government and the text”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“How do you think about this? It's, I think, a super critical piece, which is, I think the key, key priority for the US tech sector and the U.S. government is to ensure that we not only do leading innovative work, but we also collectively build trust around the world on our tech stack.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Ratios have to be high. That is sort of what it takes to be a leading RD company in this world. And that's something that needs to scale. And you have to have a balance sheet that allows you to scale that long before it's conventional wisdom and so on. So that's kind of one thing. But the other is all about sort of knowing how to forecast”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the marketplace, right, there's all kinds of incentives right now, and rightfully so, right? I mean, what do you expect an independent lab that is sort of trying to raise money to do, right? They have to put some numbers out there such that they can actually go raise money so that they can pay their bills for compute and what have you. And it's good thing. Someone's going to take some risk and put it in there. And they've shown traction. It's not like it's all risk without seeing the fact that they've been performing, whether it's open AI, whether it's anthropic. So I feel great about what they've done. And we have a massive book of business with these chaps. So therefore, that's all good. But overall, ultimately there's two simple things. One is you got to allocate for R&D. You brought up even talent. You got the talent for AI is at a premium. You got to spend there. You got to spend on compute. So in some sense, researcher to GPU.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There needs to be an allocation, what I'll call it, research compute that needs to be done like you did R&D. So that's the best way to even account for it, quite frankly. We should think of it as just RD expense, and you should say, hey, what's the research computer, or how do you want to scale it? And let's even say it's an order of magnitude scale in some period. Pick your thing. Is it two years? Is it 16 months? What have you, right? So that's sort of one piece, which is kind of that's kind of table stakes, that's R&D expenses. And the rest is all demand driven, right? I mean, ultimately, you can allow to build a head or demand, but you better have a demand plan that doesn't go completely off kilter.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Density coming to bring out capital efficiency. So that at some level, that's what we have to master. What does it mean? Like somebody, people ask me, what is the difference between a classic old time host and a hyperscaler? It was software. So yes, it is capital intensive, but as long as you have systems know-how, software capability to optimize by workload, buy fleet. That's why I think when we say fungibility, there's so much software in it. It's just not about the fleet, right? It's kind of the ability to evict a workload and then schedule another workload. That is the type of stuff that we have to be world class at. And so, yes, so I think we'll still remain a software company. But yes, this is a different business. And we're going to manage, look, I think at the end of the day, the cash.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, I think the structural change is what you're referencing, which I think is massive, right? I describe it as we are now a capital intensive business and a knowledge intensive business. And in fact, we have to use our knowledge to increase the ROIC on the capital spend, right? Because that's kind of, you know, look, the hardware guys have done a great job of marketing the Moore's law, which I think is unbelievable and it's great. But if you even look at, I think some of the stats I even did in my earnings call, which is for a given GPT family, right, the improvement, software improvements of really throughput in terms of tokens per dollar per watt that we are able to get quarter over quarter year over year is massive, right? So it's 5x, 10x, maybe 40x in some of these cases, right? Just because how you can optimize, that's sort of knowledge intense.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Any custom agreement like that, they will have to come run it. There are some few exceptions to US government and so on that we made, but other than that, they'll have to come to Azure.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Even that, they'll have to come to Azure. So, if it is any partner, and so fundamentally, you know, so again, this is done in the spirit of what is it that we valued as part of our partnership.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, if they want a partner and thus, partner wants to use a stateless API, then Azure is the place where they can get the stateless API.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's the reason why. So, the thing the business, the strategic decision we made, and also accommodating for the flexibility open AI needed in order to be able to procure compute for essentially, think of open AI having A pause business and a SaaS business. SaaS business is ChatGPT that paused business is their API. That API is Azure exclusive. The SaaS business, they can run it anywhere.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Be able to sort of really work with the open AI lineage and the MAI lineage and the system design, knowing that we have the IP rights on both ends.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And by the way, we gave them a bunch of IP as well to bootstrap them, right? So this is one of the reasons why they had a mass, because we built all these supercomputers together or rebuilt it for them and they benefited from it, rightfully so. And now as they innovate even at the system level, we get access to all of it. And we first want to instantiate what they build for them, but then we'll extend it. And so to think that we don't have, and so if anything, the way I think about your question is Microsoft wants to be a fantastic, I'll call it speed of light execution partner for Nvidia, because quite frankly, that fleet is life itself. I'm not worried about, I mean, obviously Jensen's doing super well with his margins, but the TCO has many dimensions to it, and I want to be great at that TCO. On top of that, I want to”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Vertical thing, you better have your own model, which is either going to use it for training or inference, and you have to generate your own demand for it or subsidize the demand for it. So therefore, you want to make sure you scale it appropriately. So the way we are going to do it is have a closed loop between our own MAI models and our silicon because I feel like that's what gives you the birthright to really do your own silicon, right? Where you literally have designed the microarchitecture with what you're doing and then you keep pace with your own models. In our case, the good news here is OpenAI has a program, which we have access to. And so therefore to think that Microsoft is not going to have something that scale.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's a good question. So, a couple of things. One is the thing that is the biggest competitor for any new accelerator is kind of even the previous generation of NVIDIA, right? I mean, in our fleet, what I'm going to look at is the overall TCO. So the bar I have even for our own, and which, by the way, I was just looking at the data for Maya 200, which looks great, except that one of the things that we learned even on the compute side, which is we had a lot of Intel, then we introduced AMD, and then we introduced Cobalt. And so that's kind of how we scaled it. And so we have good sort of existence proof of at least in core compute on how to build your own silicon and then manage a fleet where all three are at play in some balance. Because by the way, even Google's buying NVIDIA and so is Amazon. It makes sense because Nvidia is innovating and it's the general purpose thing. All models run on it and customer demand is there because if you build your own”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it's fine for us because we now have when you have line of sight to demand which can be served where people are building it, it's great. In fact, we'll even have, I would say, we will take leases, we will take build a suite, we'll take even GPUs as a service where we don't have capacity, but we need capacity and someone else has that. And by the way, I would even sort of welcome every NeoCloud to just be part of our marketplace. Because again, guess what? If they go bring their capacity into our marketplace, that customer who comes through Azure will use the NeoCloud, which is a great win for them and will use compute storage databases, all the rest for Azure. So I'm not at all thinking of this as just, hey, I should just go gobble up all of that myself.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We want to build what we want to build slightly differently by both workload type as well as geotype and timing as well. We'll keep ramping up our gigawatts and the question is at what pace and in what location and in what sort of how do I write even the Moore's law on it, right? Which is do I really want to overbuild three and a half in 27 or do I want to spread that in 2728 knowing even?”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or I may want to build it in a different location. I may want to build it in UAE. I may want to build it in India. I may want to build it in Europe, right? So one of the other things is, as I said, like where we have real capacity constraints right now are given the regulatory needs and the data sovereignty needs, we've got to build all over the world. First of all, stateside capacity is super important and we're going to build everything. But one of the things is when I look out to 2030, I have a sort of a global view of what does Microsoft shape a business by first party and third party third party segmented by the frontier labs and how much they want versus the inference capacity we want to build for multiple models and our own research compute needs. So that's all what's going into my calculus versus saying, hey, I think you're rightfully pointing out the pause. But the pause was not done because we said, oh my God, we don't want to build that. We realized that, oh,”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“There is a separate business called just selling raw bare metal services to model companies, and that's the argument about how much of that business you want to be in and not be in. And what is that? It's a very different segment of the business, which we are in, and we also have limits to how much of it is going to crowd out the rest of it. But that's kind of at least the way I look at it.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What is going to be available on Azure? So, any workload that says, hey, I want to use some open source model and an open AI model, like, I mean, if you go to Azure Foundry today, you have all these models that you can provision by PTUs, get a Cosmos DB, get a SQL DB, get some storage, get some compute. That's what a real workload looks like. Our real workload is not just, hey, I did an API call to a model. A real workload needs all of these things to go build an app or instantiate an application. In fact, the model companies need that, right? To build anything is just not like I have a token factory. I have to have all of these things. That's the hyperscale business. And it's not any one model, but all these models. And so if you want Grok plus, let's say OpenAI plus an open source model, come to Azure Foundry, provision them, build your application. Here is a database. That's kind of what the business is.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“By the way, your things, whether it's the AWS or the Google and ours, which I think is super useful, but doesn't mean I got to chase those. I have to chase them for not just the gross margin that they may represent in a period of time. What is this book of business that Microsoft uniquely can go clear, which makes sense for us to clear? And that's what we'll do.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“First refusal, et cetera. I'm not, first of all, I don't want to take away anything from the success Oracle has had in building their business, and I wish them well. And so the thing that I think I've answered for you is it didn't make sense for us to go be a host for one model company with limited time horizon RPO. Let's just put it that way, right? The thing that you have to think through is not what you do in the next five years, but what do you do for the next 50? Because that's kind of what we made our set of decisions. I feel very good about our OpenAI partnership and what we're doing. We have a decent book of business. We wish them a lot of success. In fact, we are buyers even of Oracle capacity. We wish them success. But, you know, at this point, I think the industrial logic for what we are trying to do is pretty clear, which is it's not about like chasing. First of all, I track.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Overlay that with what is the usage pattern usage pattern in terms of synchronous asynchronous, but also what is the compute storage because the latencies may matter for certain things. The storage better be there. If I have a Cosmos DB close to this for session data or even for an autonomous thing, then that also has to be somewhere close to it and so on. So I think that all of those considerations is what will shape the hyperscale business.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's a great question. That's exactly right. So, in fact, that's one of the other reasons why we want to think about, hey, what is an Azure region look like and what is the, in fact, the networking between Azure regions? So this is where I think as the model capabilities evolve, and I think the usage of these tokens, whether it's synchronously or asynchronously, evolves, and in fact, you don't want to be out of position, right? Then on top of that, by the way, what are the data residency laws, right? Where do I, like, I mean, the entire EU thing for us where we literally had to create an EU data boundary basically meant that you can't just round-trip a call to wherever, even if it's a synchronous. And so therefore you need to have maybe regional things that are high density and then the power costs and so on. You're 100% right in bringing up that the topology as we build out will have to evolve, one for tokens per dollar per watt, what are the economics?”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of just doing five contracts with five customers being their bare metal service. That's not a Microsoft business. That may be a business for someone else and that's a good thing. What we have said is we are in the hyperscale business, which is at the end of the day a long tail business for AI workloads. And in order to do that, we will have some leading bare metal as a service capabilities for a set of models, including our own. And that, I think, is the balance you see.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Requirements are going to be so different. And that means I don't want to just go build out like a whole number of gigawatts that are only for a one generation, one family. And so I think the pacing matters and the fungibility and the location matters, the workload diversity matters, customer diversity matters, and that's what we're building towards. The other thing that we've learned a lot is every AI workload does require not only the AI accelerator, but it requires a whole lot of other things. And in fact, a lot of the margin structure for us will be in those other things. And so therefore, we want to build out Azure as being fantastic for the long tail of the workloads, because that's the hyperscale business. While knowing that we've got to be super competitive, starting with the bare metal for the highest end training, but that can't crowd out the rest of the business, right? Because we're not in the business.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Should be vertically integrated with that company. And so given the thing that OpenAI was going to be a successful independent company, which is fantastic, right? I think it makes sense, right? And even Meta may use third-party capacity, but ultimately they're all going to be first party. For anyone who has large scale, there'll be a hyperscaler on their own. And so to me was to build out a hyperscale fleet and our own research compute. And that's what the adjustment was. And so I feel very, very good. Oh, by the way, the other thing is, I didn't want to get stuck with massive scale of one generation. I mean, we just saw the GB200s. I mean, the GB300s are coming, right? And by the time I get to Vera Rubin, Veraubin Ultra, guess what? The data center is going to look very different because the power per rack, power per row, is going to be so different. The cooling requirements.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But the more important thing is to actually have a balance, to not just train, but to be able to serve these models all around the world. Because at the end of the day, the rate of monetization is what then will allow us to even keep funding. And then the infrastructure was going to need us to support, as I said, multiple models and what have you. So once we start, that's the case, since then, we just course corrected to the path we're on, right? If I look at the path we're on is we are doing a lot more starts now. We are also buying up as manage capacity as we can, whether it's to build, whether it's to lease, or even GPUs as a service. But we are building it for where we see the demand and the serving needs and our training needs. And we didn't want to just be a hoster for one company and have just a massive book of business with one customer. That's not a business, right? That is sort of, you know.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, the fundamental thing, this goes back a little bit to what is the hyperscale business all about, right? Which is one of the key decisions we made was that if we're going to build out Azure to be fantastic for all sort of stages of AI, from training to mid-training to DataGen to inference, we just need fungibility of the fleet. And so that entire thing caused us not to basically go build a whole lot of capacity with a particular set of generations. Because the other thing that you got to realize is having actually for up to now 10xed every 18 months enough training capacity for the various open AI models, we realized that the key is to stay on that path.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Which Company like Microsoft should compete in each layer by its merits, but not think that this is all about all a road to game set match where I just compose vertically all these layers. That just doesn't happen.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Or data, you know, I'll call liquidity that anyone model has is it going to happen in all domains? I don't think so. Is it going to happen in all GOs? I don't think so. Is it going to happen in all segments? I don't think so. It'll happen in all categories at the same time. I don't think so. So therefore, I feel like the design space is so large that there's plenty of opportunity. Your fundamental point is having a capability which is at the infrastructure layer, model layer, and at the scaffolding layer, and then to be able to compose these things not just as a vertical stack, but to be able to compose each thing for what its purpose is, right? You can't build an infrastructure that's optimized for one model. If you do that, what if you go fall behind? In fact, all the infrastructure you built will be a waste. You kind of need to build an infrastructure that's capable of supporting multiple sort of families and lineages or models. Otherwise, the capital you put in.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, no, I think your point about if there's one model that is the only model that's most broadly deployed in the world and it sees all the data and it has continuous learning, that's game set match and is shut sharp, right? I mean the reality, at least I see is the world even today for all the dominance of any one model, it's not the case take any coding there's multiple models in fact every day it's less the case where there is not one model that's getting deployed broadly in fact there's multiple models that are getting deployed it's kind of like databases right it's always the thing is like hey can one database be the one that just is used everywhere except it's not there are multiple types of databases that are getting deployed for different use cases so I think that there is going to be some network effects of continual learning”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Second is in our own model capability, we will absolutely use the Open AI model in our products and we will start building our own models. And we may, like in GitHub co-pilot, Anthropic is used. So we will even have other frontier models that are going to be wrapped into our products as well. So I think that that's kind of how at least each time at the end of the day, the eval of the product as it meets a particular task or a job is what matters. And we'll sort of back from there into the vertical integration needed, knowing that as long as you're serving the market well with the product, you can always cost optimize.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Oh, look, I mean, at the end of the day, we're going to build a world-class team and we already have a world-class team that's beginning to be sort of assembled, right? With Mustafa coming in, we have Karen, we have Amar Subramanium, who did a lot of the post-training at Gemini 2.5, who is at Microsoft, Nando, who did a lot of the multimedia work at DeepMind is there. And so we're going to build a world-class team. And in fact, I think later this week, even Mustafa published a little more clarity on what our lab is going to go do. I think the thing that I want the world to know perhaps is we are going to build the infrastructure that will support multiple models. Because from a hyperscale perspective, we want to build the most scaled infrastructure fleet that's capable of supporting all the models the world needs, whether it's from open source or whether it's obviously from OpenAI and others. And so that's kind of one job.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Very product focused on, on the other end, be very research focused. In other words, because we have access to the GPT family. The last thing I don't want to do is use my flops in a way that is just duplicative and doesn't”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, so first of all, we are absolutely going to use the open AI models to the maximum across all of our products, right? I mean, that's, I think, the core thing that we're going to continue to do all the way for the next seven years, and not just use it, but then add value to it. That's kind of where the analyst and this Excel agent, and these are all things that we will do where we'll do RL fine-tuning, we'll do some mid-training runs on top of a GPT family where we have unique data assets and build capability. The MAI model, the way I think we're going to think about it is the good news here, in fact, with the new agreement is even we can be very, very clear, that we're going to build a world-class superintelligence team and go after it with a high ambition. But at the same time, we're also going to use this time to be smart about how to use both these things. So that means we will on one end be...”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What is infrastructure business? It happens the consumption of that is all being driven by agents. You could say all that is just in time generated software by a model company. That could also be true. We will be one such model company too. And so we will build in so the competition could be that we will build a model plus all the infrastructure and provision it, and then there will be competition between a bunch of those folks who can do that.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And even when agents are working with agents, what are the primitives that are needed? Do you need a storage system? Does that storage system need to have e-discovery? Does that e-discovery, do you need to have observability? Do you need to have an identity system that is going to use multiple models with all having one identity system? So these are all the core underlying rails we have today for what our office systems or what have you. And that's what I think we will have in the future as well. You talked about databases, right? I mean, take, you know, man, I would love all of Excel to have a database backend, right? In fact, I would love for all that to happen immediately. And that database is a good database. I mean, databases, in fact, will be a big thing that will grow. In fact, if I think about all of the office artifacts being structured better, the ability to do the joins between structure and unstructured better because of the agenting work, that'll grow the underlying.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, this is not about sort of hey, there is going to be a significant amount of time where there's going to be a hybrid world, right? Because people are going to be using the tools that are going to be working with agents that have to use tools. And by the way, they have to communicate with each other. What's the artifact I generate that then a human needs to see? So like all of these things will be real considerations in any place. So the outputs, input, so I don't think it'll just be about, oh, I migrated off, right? But the bottom line is I have to live in this hybrid world. But that doesn't fully answer your question because there can be in real new efficient frontier where just agents working with agents and completely optimizing.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Just keep growing because guess what? It's going to grow faster than the number of users. So, in fact, that's kind of one of the other questions people ask me is, hey, what happens to the per user business? At least the early signs may be the way to think about the per user business is not just per user, it's per agent. And if you sort of say it's per user and per agent, the key is what's the stuff to provision for every agent? A computer, a set of security things around it, an identity around it, and all those things of observability and so on are the management layers. And that's, I think, all going to get baked into that.”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“100%. I mean, so the entire thing, in fact, the way what happened is we had servers, then there was virtualization, and they had many more servers. So that's another way to think about this, which is, hey, don't think of the tool as the end thing. What is the entire substrate underneath that tool that humans use? And that entire substrate is the bootstrap for the AI agent as well, because the AI agent needs a computer. That's kind of one. So in fact, one of the fascinating things we are seeing is a significant amount of growth is all these guys who are doing these office artifacts and what have you as autonomous agents and so on want to provision Windows 365, right? They really want to be able to provision a computer for these agents. And so absolutely. And that's why I think we're going to have essentially an end user computing infrastructure business, which I think is going to”
2025-11-12 · Dwarkesh Podcast · Satya Nadella — How Microsoft is preparing for AGI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source