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Scott Lindberg

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2023-07-26
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2023-07-26
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  1. “To publicly say thank you to you. The whole reason that I got Bitcoin was going back to when I first started was listening to you and staying and you're like, what's this Bitcoin thing? Is anybody looking at this Bitcoin thing? And then I don't know from there it led to books and other things. And like I wouldn't, like none of this would have happened if that hadn't. So I just wanted to say public shout out. Thank you for what for everybody. For me personally, it's. It's an honor to talk to you because you're the voice in my ears that was like Bitcoin thing. But this is Bitcoin thing. I don't know. Like, so I just wanted to get that out there”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  2. “I realize most people don't care about all that, but I basically just said here's all the things that help me. Here's all my notes. And then so you'll see a book on the website too that's basically teaching through games is what I labeled it. So for those that, you know, maybe you don't have a meetup close to you or you don't have a family member who already knows Bitcoin, then that's for you because you can just pick it up and go, I want to learn about this and I'll appoint you to where I started. And you can just take it whichever way. Choose your own adventure kind of style.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  3. “No, no, no, you're dead on. You just do my sales guy. The other game, though, is so like we had the opportunity, for example, to talk with some folks from me, Premiere Bitcoin in Miami. And then we actually do want to advance Bitcoin education on this. And just because I'm a geek and I like these high-end games, right? That may not be the right thing. So we developed, we call it our school edition. And this would be so you have cardboard pieces instead of the plastic pieces, for example. It's the same game, same rules. It's just, it's more equivalent to what if you went to like a Walmart and you picked off a shelf on a game there, it's at that quality level. So you have the high quality original, which on the website is just labeled Deluxe. And then you have this other one, same game. So especially if you're playing with your, you know, younger kids or something, maybe you just want the school edition. The book we sell separately.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  4. “Do so, the low time. So I built a game, the first version, the way I would want it as a gamer. So we call it the load time preference version. All right. That's the high end one. And then, which has like...”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  5. “You gotta go through it, and even if you don't understand all the technical stuff, like you can pick out the big themes on there, like the two generals problem leading to proof of work as an example. I thought that was pretty good. And then the idea of game theory itself is interesting. This is the one. I read a couple books recently. This is the one that I think I would, if I had just picked one to start with, art of strategy, I think is a Dixit and Nail Buff. Those would be the those four books. They'll kind of you'll understand everything we just talked about if you listen to those four books or read those four books.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  6. “Yeah, absolutely. And so this will depend on what your interest is. If you're just getting started in all this, the thing that helped me with the framework was price of tomorrow. I think that is a good way of kind of setting the framework. And then also on that same vein, the infinite game by Simon Sinek that we mentioned earlier to just understand why is this even significant? That's where I would start there. If you want to go deeper on the Bitcoin game theory, I would go, I actually have them here. I should just hold them up. All right. So that's the first one we were just talking about. If you want to go deep on Bitcoin itself, what I found to be very helpful was the book of Satoshi.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  7. “Think of that, and I think it goes back to the first part of our discussion why are we even talking about Bitcoin? Well, because we're playing a different, we're in a game. And these are people who recognize it. And for them, that caused bigger than themselves is going to lead to decisions about what they do to help others. At least, I mean, I don't know them personally. I'm speculating, but it seems to me that when I listen to them speak and then I interviewed, that's what I hear. I get that this is significant this is a major shift. There's a major opportunity for the human flourishing. Like this is a big deal and they want to do their part to help it. That's what I hear when I listen to those guys.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  8. “What would you do? Well, if they exemplify it, you would. Want to submit, you would want to communicate what you learn to others. And that expression about, we'll all hang together like going back to the Declaration of Independence, like stick your neck out. I think it's admirable.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  9. “Have that change I'm going to do it on the side. We wouldn't be able to see it. That's like dark matter in the space. You won't know that right now. But I would, you know, if we had perfect information, I would bet you that some of them are getting it. But because they live in their fiat world with their finite rules and framework, that's the framework that they're living by. Like, why would they publicly tell anybody that they're hedging their bets over here? So even if they did get it, they wouldn't tell us.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  10. “That whereas the people who are attracted to it, like the talent that you have coming to it, if you're that Bitcoin attracts people for all their different reasons and you go through that, the unbanked versus, you know, the people are just passionate about freedom, whatever it is. And I think it's, you just ask the question, what game are they playing? They're playing a finite game. What are their incentives? Well, their incentives have rewarded them handsomely Playing that five game. Why change now? I mean, I just, and so. To me, it's, I guess there's the other thing, too, is you probably have some closet ones that are maybe they're doing on the side on their own. They're not telling anybody because I think.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  11. “Mean, we don't know what a real free market is just because of how controlled it's been, right? I know that this is a theme that's been echoed in a lot of different conversations. So I actually. I think it's actually good to see that. I think with the folks that are in the traditional finance world, my thought while you're asking that or making that comment is look at what game are they playing? They're playing a finite game. That finite game has rewarded them very well. I mean, if you've been a banker for some number of years, you're probably a millionaire. Like there's no like the what are your incentives? Switch Well, it looks highly volatile. It's different than what I've done in the past. And I'm making a boatload doing this thing. Why would I change what I'm doing?”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  12. “I've tried to kind of look for what you're talking about, and I just don't know yet. I don't know if it's changing that much or not. I mean, it's funny because some games, the difficulty will go way the heck down. Like people really are mining. And then there's other ones where everybody's just going to cold storage, the things maxed out. And there's nothing stopping anybody other than the fact that they're just deciding to do that instead of mine. So that's an interesting thing. I think I'll have to look for that as I go forward. I just did it because I wanted it in the game. I like that element. I like and the mechanism that it creates. I don't know.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  13. “I appreciate that. Yeah, the only time I've seen it different than that is it depends on who you're playing with. If I'm playing with Bitcoin, they're competitive. They want to put real sats in there and make all kinds of jokes and whatever else. And then sometimes you play with people who just, they're new to it. They want to pair up with somebody. They're a little intimidated by all the different elements of it. And they'll overthink it. And so they can sit there. And if you have someone that's going to take five minutes a turn, like I don't know, maybe get a timer out or something. But, um,”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  14. “Cars themselves are meant to be like the reason that you can't just do what you want is you're taking a chance. You have to say, this is, I have a one out of three chance that if I draw this card, this will happen, or I have a 50% chance of getting bad. There's all these chances built into the distribution of the different decks. And then you have like the constantly changing difficulty dial too. So you're trying to, it might work now, but it might not work when it comes around to your turn again because something else happened with another player. So it's both playable. It makes it better by having a little bit of entropy in there. And it's perfect for all kinds of Bitcoin discussions.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  15. “That's real Bitcoin. The whole reason it's proof of work is you can't just engineer it backwards and know what the block is. You're going to have to keep on trying and trying and trying. So for me, the way that I introduced it, it helped with two things. One, it added like what I wanted for the game to have some element of entropy to it, but it gives a whole bunch of opportunities to talk about how important entropy is, anything from seed phrases to the nonce in mining. The connection to Bitcoin. entropy is and generally where humans are not good at it. Like if you just want to come up with your own seed phrase, like someone's probably going to figure it out. And so the connection there is those two things. The mining and seed phrase is, I think, are what come to mind that if someone actually was interested in learning more about Bitcoin, that's what I would, you know, I say, because the hot cold storage, like, I mean, no one's going to really.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  16. “That kind of shakes it up. So, even if you play against it, like say you're an experienced player, I saw the chance against you. Because there's some element. I like games that have some element entropy in there that kind of shakes it up a bit. And that actually works perfectly with Bitcoin. So I name the cards. I call them the decks, the nonce cards. Like if you think about what's really going on with mining.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  17. “Absolutely. So from a game perspective, to me, if you go to a game conference, they'll have like an entire halls of people doing a katon competition. And what you have there is so chess zero chance, man. It's like you have to build up your skills. That's it versus the other games like you talk about just like pure chance. And what I wanted, what I think is enjoyable in a game is I want someone to have a lot of options. I just think anytime I can add another option in there, that it adds something to it. So in the game, we're talking about do you want to buy more mining rigs and increase your hash power? Well, there's an opportunity cost to that because if it's the last block of the epoch, your opponent might get that. Or your son's strategy of going to cold storage early. Some people just like have at it and they just go. Some people buy all these rigs and like they want their hash power to go up. So I like that there's a lot of, I want to give as many options to the players that they feel like they can actually have a strategy and they can go execute. But I really like games like Katan.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  18. “Yeah, I wish it was. I mean, I love it. I know you're talking about the ARC, and it worked out. But the way I got there was less of me coming up with this great insight and saying, I want to implement this. And it was much more of, I mean, I'm a Midwest guy. So you can't steer a park truck, right? You gotta be moving. And so the playtesting and trying out all these different things. It was literally, I mean, it was sort of like, I'm just going to like, you know, it's Edison with all his light bulbs. I'm just going to try every element I can figure out. And maybe one of these things does something different, right? And I just kept on trying. And some of them didn't work and go, okay, well, we won't do that. I wish I could tell you I had some kind of like wonderful insight with the design on that. It was literally just what we described. It was just constantly being willing to. And that's where I'm really grateful because like I had people who are willing to play with me. It takes a lot to play test a game. Like you got to be a really”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  19. “Your takens, I can't have, you know, I can't 21 would be too small a number of tokens in a game, but I can't have a million, right? So like you're like trying to find a balance and have the halvings and like meet all those things that took, I had all kinds of variations in the spreadsheet trying to figure that out. But the end result is now you can see it visually. And it's kind of fun to watch people's reaction.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  20. “Like literally in your face, you can't, it's part of your strategy to win the game. I kind of like that, especially if I'm talking to my wife now, because she's a Bitcoiner now. But when I went to her, she doesn't learn the way I learn. I'm like, I'm going to go listen to podcasts and read books and do whatever. That's not how she takes information. So like being able to visually see something like a having, even though it's not, yeah, it's not you can't do it literally in four years. You got 45 minutes. So how do you get that point across? Well, I'm like, okay, well, you visually can see it. Your rewards are getting cut in half, and then they're going to get cut in half again. So think about what you want to do. So that was the only hard part of that was trying to figure out how to get 21 million into a nice evenly divisible number.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  21. “I've had that feedback that it was a, even for people who have been in Bitcoin for a while, it's very, the halvings are in your face.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  22. “So maybe this can help. I don't know. Maybe we help someone not get rugged later. So I know that I don't know. Maybe that's a bridge too far. But I mean, when you think, and the other thing is kids will pick it up faster than the adults, just in general.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  23. “So if you learn, I mean, that's the thing too. So you play with somebody who doesn't know, it's like a bridge. You play with someone who doesn't know anything about Bitcoin. You shut up and play. Like at the end of that, they're going to associate cold storage with safety.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  24. “I think it was a phishing scam swim swap and like stolen keys, I think. But then the other sides of the die where you moved it to cold storage. You could protect yourself. And what's funny about all this is this was the hardest part to develop. But there was an influencer we met like in Miami and he took the game home. And I think it was like his five and seven year olds. And he said, they just kept on playing on their own. And he hears from the other room. One of the kids telling the other his brother, you better get your Bitcoin in cold storage. And you're like, that freaking awesome. So like that's exactly.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  25. “Sorry, no, no, no, good point. Yeah, I'm in the game land right now. And so your original question was kind of how do you start to develop this? Well, it's got to be true to the ethos, but I want it to be playable in a short amount of time. I want it to be fun. I want all that in there. And being true to the ethos, that was one of the hardest parts of it. And what it led to was, okay, in the game now, for those that haven't played, when you first mine the transactions or the Bitcoin, you add them to the time chain, the reward goes to your wallet, which is just a card. But the card split into a hot and cold side. I can attack you. As long as your Bitcoin's on the hot side, actually try not to tease you about the sim swap, but I think I put these different threats.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  26. “And then you want to share that. And it's just so overwhelming. So I want to be true to that. I have to simplify it to keep it to 45 minutes. But what is essential to keep in there? For example, when I first plate tested it with my brother, you know, we had this thing where you could take anybody's Bitcoin and move it. And I go, we can't do that because I'm never going to sign a transaction. It just says, here's your Bitcoin. And he's like, well, your game sucks because whoever gets the first few blocks in their first epoch is going to like they're done. There's no point in playing. And I go, but you can't take it. So this was the hardest part of the game to develop. It was harder than the difficulty adjustment. And it was basically, like, we all split it up. I'll tell you what, you got this hot and cold side now. And just for.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  27. “And that means not everybody's going to sit down for a five hour game. My wife and I tried to teach our kid what we did. We forced them to use cash flow. I don't know if you know that Kiyasaki game. Really good for teaching financial statements, but we had to bribe them with snacks and threaten them. And like it wasn't fun. And so for me, what I'm looking for is I want something that you can sit down in 45 minutes-ish, depending maybe an hour, depending on how much you're talking. You have your favorite chips and your drinks or whatever. And anybody across any age or background, even if you don't know anything about Bitcoin in this case, you can still sit down and spend time together. That to me is the first thing on the mind is I want opportunities for fellowship. And then the fun part of it is, and this is where the playtesting came in, is I don't want to be cash flow. Like I like the game because it helped teach, but it wasn't fun. Like there wasn't a replayability fun factor in it. It was a pure education tool. You know, here's this Bitcoin thing. All these epiphanies like dopamine hit after dopamine hit. Every time you learn something new, you're like, oh my God.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  28. “Interesting, you brought up your mom. So, like, I played cribbage with my grandfather, and then still play with my dad, and now especially my sons, but our kids can play with my dad. And my oldest son just got engaged. And I had this vision that when he has kids, we'll play too. So it's this idea that right now, look how much time we spend on the screen, especially the kids. And I don't like that we're missing the human touch. We're missing the fellowship side of this, the COVID thing just freaking crazy, right? When I was thinking about the game, I want something that can go across ages so that whether it's your kids and grandkids or whoever it is, that it's playable for everybody.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  29. “And then at the time, I had a fiat job, and it was two years of the design and back and forth and playtesting. My brother is not a big corner, but he loves games. We go to a game conference every year. And my oldest son is also not a Bitcoiner, but he's a good gamer. And I would, I would try to go learn something. And I wanted to stick, I wanted to ethos to be true to Bitcoin, right? I also, you know, this was also helping me communicate with my wife because she, you know, at this point wasn't Bitcoin yet. And I originally started with like Mahjahan tiles. I had these things laid out with stickers on them. I'm like, here's what's going on. And then it just kind of, I just kept iterating. So one, I love games. I kind of geek out on that. And I'm stubborn. So like, I just, I'm like, I'm just going to keep doing this. You know, I have some other motivations that I could just throw in real quick before we get to some of that breakdown.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  30. “It is mind blowing. I agree with you. It's kind of fun because, too, I said when we get to it, we get to the game design, like how do you teach that to others that it's significant? I was like, I have to have this in the game. But I know that like some people are just going to hate it.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  31. “Or something. He had designed the nervous system, the muscle system, the skeletal system. He had to design everything so it all worked together. The one that I would highlight is, and I'm still like, I still have to do a lot of learning in this regard. It's just understanding the implications of proof of work. That to me is kind of where I come down. I'm not sure where you come down, but that's where my head is.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  32. “So it's kind of jumping ahead to the next one. The one that I'm still trying to really grasp this, and that is this whole connection between I've linked the physical world to the digital world. I think there's a handful of deep thinkers out there that get it, like a Michael Saylor. There's a handful of first principle people, I think that get it. Like I'm just trying to, like the whole idea, for example, of what's going on with Alex's work with like IMF and World Bank and kind of debunking these ideas that we've been basically following with the kind of fiat finite playbook and the incentives that you set up with energy to go and find stranded energy, low cost energy, and the link between energy and human flourishing. Now you get into like fossil future. That's where all these other things to me, I think are pretty, I'm amazed. This to me is like designing Frankenstein.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  33. “Slow down. And I think the reason is what you're hitting on there is it's intentionally long because this is not, again, infinite game, right? He's not looking at this has to be implemented in a year or five years or whatever. He's saying, I want this implemented. Like I want this to be implemented. And he's not, you know, he's like, yeah, there's going to be other things that have to be developed. How do I make sure they have time to develop those things so that this can succeed? He must have understood. that it was going to take it was going to take time. You had to have a really low time preference on this thing to put these pieces together. Otherwise, it would go too early and it wouldn't work.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  34. “As he knew he wasn't solving for medium of exchange. It was a store of value, like you said. And that was the first part of it. But he had to give enough time for people to work on all these things if it was ever going to succeed. And if, you know, if adoption happened too fast, like when the, was it WikiLeaks? I think it was WikiLeaks. He actually said it's too early.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  35. “Yeah, I do. It actually brings up a point that I kind of skipped. But when you say you have, you pick your amount, you pick your 21 million, you pick how you want to go out. But another key part of that is understanding the timeline, like what you're talking about. And you have to think through, how long does it take to build up? Let's go back to like the FETI example. If there are a billion dollars of payments on Lightning today, but 40 trillion of credit card payments a year, it takes time to do this. So he had to understand she, them, whoever, when laying out, like, why go all the way out to 2140? Like, I mean, to have this thing. And my suspicion is that he understood that this was going to take time to build these other layers. He understood the internet. He understood the internet was built on layers. My guess is that the reason that this is going to take so long is because”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  36. “The governor on this thing, and that's your difficulty, Justin. And you just take it. So to me, that's what I tried to, when I say let's look forward, reason back and put ourselves in somebody else's shoes. In this case, let's put ourselves like it's 2008 and you're Satoshi and you're saying, how do you crack this thing? You got to, and you hit on it earlier, like to think through all the incentives on this. I just, the more I studied it, the more I just like I wanted to keep telling my wife about it. This is where I started like how to build a game because my wife was like, I don't really care about your little abstract ideas at first. And this is mind-blowing how he put these pieces together. And he didn't like he didn't create Shaw 256. He didn't create like, he just assembled these things in a way that you could have a game that had rules and no rulers.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  37. “Now you end up with a difficulty adjustment. I'm like, okay, well, holy crap. So now I need to have a hard cap. It has to be decentralized. I have to have proof of work. It has to have halvings. And I need this.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  38. “So, what it is, it's like an ecosystem. You got like layers of systems, you have like games within games on this thing. And the last one that I'll mention, just to kind of round this out, is you have a lot of things. You don't have like a central body there that's going to be able to respond to things. For example, never mind someone like China, like some policy to ban banning or mining. Just the fact that technology, like Moore's law, if every 18 months, the efficiency of chips is doubling and has been, how in the world do I make sure that everybody sticks to this issuance schedule that I just spent all this time thinking about? And where you end up with is you're like, well, I need some kind of governor for this issuance engine that I have here.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  39. “And reward the early adopters. So I want to have really big rewards up front. But eventually I have to get to zero. Well, so where you end up with this reasoning is what he has with the headings. Have the issuance schedule. All right, so now we're in our journey. We have a hard cap. We're decentralized. We have proof of work and we have this issuance schedule with halvings. And then you could even get into the incentive structure after that they're all done with the transaction fees. That's a whole other.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  40. “Which has all these implications with what we're talking about with mining incentives and energy producers versus consumers and all these and the physical world connected to the digital world. There's so many implications to that. But in the context of kind of reasoning backwards, it's like, okay, we need a hard market, like a hard cap, 21 million, has to be decentralized. So we have to have proof of work. Got it. Now what? Like what do I, how do you get this thing out there? And you're looking at like adoption curves. You got like your innovators, your early adopters, your late adopters. You have kind of like the classic askers. And you're going to want to reward people early. So now your question is like, well, how do I take this 21 million and put it out there? Do I just make all of it once? Like I say, here it is. Do I follow the gold method and say I want it one and a half, two percent a year for however long it takes to get it all out? But if you if you like talking about game theory, I want to inspect.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  41. “This is kind of mind blowing in a number of ways. And so for anyone interested in understanding that, I didn't make that up. That actually comes from the book of Satoshi, Phil Champagne, I think, is the author. And he actually collects a lot of the messages that Satoshi sent. So it's this white paper plus all this other correspondence. And he actually says the solution to the two general's problem is proof of work.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  42. “You're like, okay, so that's great. Now we've got to have a hard cap, and it has to be decentralized. Okay, that's two things that we have to work into our game. Well, decentralization from a networking standpoint, you get into this thing, like the game theory, they just love the name everything. There's the prisoner's dilemma, and there's tragedy of commons. Everything has like some silly little name to it. So the two generals problem or the Byzantine general's problem or the Byzantine fault tolerance, I've got all these different variations of things. Essentially, what he did is he said, okay, if we're going to be decentralized, then”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  43. “That a new set of rules is going to work. And then the conclusion that you get to is that you have to do it decentralized. You can't do this with where I'm going to trust that some leaders, some country, some banker, whatever it is, some something.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  44. “We've just gone through this big thing. We say we're playing a different game, we want to change it, and like, where the hell do you start? Well, one thing is you can't have this constant like debasement of the money. You can't have the Romans did it. Everybody's done it. Everybody's done it. So you have this thing called, I think it's called ethical erosion. You'll get to it at the end of the book. But basically a slippery slope and then eventually something's going to break. So in my mind, okay, the first thing is like, let's cap this thing. And he could have capped it and said, I want it to be like 2% gold or I just want to like he just went absolute. Like eventually there will be no more Bitcoin. That's it. There's 21 million and it's a hard cap. But it actually brings up, okay, well, if I keep working backwards, I have an issue with this ethical erosion. Like we're constantly going to, no one's ever been able to do that. So why would I have confidence?”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  45. “A company would take an outsider to come in and say help us war game our strategy. It's precisely because they might bring up something that you haven't thought about. And so here's where I kind of take those two themes. Looking forward, reasoning back and putting ourselves in somebody else's shoes. And that's where this is basically what I put in my book. And I'm going to try to do it in like five minutes. So let's do it. 2008. It's 2008. And we're Satoshi.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  46. “All right, so let's, like, from a game theory standpoint, we got to keep in mind the tenant, we're gonna look forward and raise a back. So we just established what we want to do. Another tenant that we haven't really discussed yet, and that is, yeah, so I was in military intelligence when I was in the Army. I wasn't in that long. And I get all the oxymoron jokes that come with that. But part of that is you have to, there's a tenant where you have to put yourself and somebody else's shoes to do a war gaming and then work backwards and work through and figure out like what should we do with our. And so think about this, that it's something called like the curse of knowledge. If you were playing chess with yourself, how do you play the other player? You can know yourself unless you're, I guess you could be like, you got some mental issues. Maybe you can be like Gollum or something. Or imagine playing poker, right? You're going to bluff yourself. Like it just doesn't, like, it's not like necessarily easy to put yourself in other shoes. That's why like, that's a reason why.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  47. “The magnitude of taking on that and saying, no, I'm going to develop this thing and I'm going to create the right incentives with my rule book and my game so that when you play the Bitcoin playbook, it wins. Well, I can't even say wins because I kind of go against that. But it basically, it grows and is adopted and then basically human flourishing is going to be the result.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  48. “How do you design the incentives to figure out the different players to design something that can take on this behemoth, this entrenched behemoth that is our fiat system? And you're going to have to have incentives that are self-reinforcing so that this thing can grow. So from a game theory standpoint, to think through that, never mind the programming, everything else. Even we can get into some of the, you know, when we get to the next stage here in the discussion, but it that's incredible. Like it sets up like your, it actually sets it up and saying, okay, I don't want to play by those rules. But so what? What are you going to do about it? And it, like, that's not, I mean, for me, just designing a game I find to be challenging. And that's just a simple little tabletop game. You're talking about like basically saying, I don't like the holy, I don't like our fiat playbook that we're playing with. I want to change it. I just.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  49. “No, I think in that connection with what you're describing, too, it actually gets to the, if you're Satoshi and it's 2008 and you just, you said, you know what? This isn't the right game. We have the wrong playbook. Well, Bitcoin doesn't exist yet. And so that's like you're basically touching on.”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  50. “So the back is we can't choose the game, we can't choose the rules. We can only choose how we play. That's the quote here, I'm assuming”

    2023-07-26 · We Study Billionaires · BTC140: Game Theory and Bitcoin w/ Scott Lindberg (Bitcoin Podcast) · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT