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Shree Viswanathan

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  1. The details. He couldn't find it. And she remembered no, I got it from my mom. So I said, okay, let's go look for your mom's name. And they went and looked for, they couldn't find it. And she thought, okay, maybe she got it from her mom and bingo. It was the grandmother who had purchased this saddle more than 70 years before she came into the office and had never been repaired. Now that's durability at its best. So that's the second feature that Francois Rochamp, for example, writes about in that article and the culture. You can appreciate the culture within the organization, not just from the family standpoint, but from the 23,000 employees as well, particularly the artisans. As I mentioned, the commitment to the creator and the creation has developed a very unique culture within the organization. I already mentioned this diplomatic quandary that they found themselves in when this gentleman

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  2. He talked about an incident where when he was the CEO of the company, he talked about an incident when a famous actress, he didn't name her, happened to be a friend, you know, who had a saddle in possession. And she had some issues with the saddle. So when she came in to meet him, brought the saddle and told him about some of the issues that she was facing. He took her to the saddle shop nearby, and the guy at the artisan at the saddle shop took a look and asked her when and where did she buy this. And this is a very interesting side note. At her mass, they maintain a log of all the purchases made, essentially a big book of all the purchases made, details of the purchaser, the amount, the item purchased, and if it was repaired when, where, things like that. So this guy was able to go to the log and see if he could find this actress's name and

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  3. Important things in a prospective company. Competitive edge, durability, and culture. I don't think he had Hermes in mind when he wrote this, but all three are present in plentiful within Ermes. Competitive advantage can be a brand name, reputation for excellence, or a monopoly position. Irma's brand name is not just survived but tried over the last 180 plus years. And as for the Lindi effect, it's likely to last that long. Quality of a product, which I talked about earlier, lends to that reputation. And while companies like LDMH and Chanel offer some similar products, RMS doesn't look too much of the competition because they fear they might be influenced. Durability at ERMAS, the products are made to last for a really long time. Patrick Thomas, the former CEO, in a recent interview,

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  4. Think that dream equation is another major takeaway from that book. The third one is art and luxury share several characteristics. For example, art value grows over time. How can art achieve this feat? It does so by being totally independent of function, just as art has done, luxury must decorrelate price and function according to Kaffir. So those are, I think, key takeaways and are worth keeping in mind as we talk about the mode of quality business like Hermes. And I'm sure you've heard of this gentleman Francois Rochamp, who runs Guverney Capital out of Montreal, Canada. He wrote a fabulous newspaper article in 2014 titled Finding Durability Value is Tough, but is worth the effort. He says you have to look for three

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  5. Takeaways from that book. One is the 24 anti-loss of marketing which you discussed. Second is that dream equation. Now he explains it very beautifully. He's a basic product corresponds to a need. If you're thirsty or you need to go to a hospital, the role of the basic product is to do this at the lowest cost. A branded product corresponds to a desire, a wish. Now we are thirsty and we desire a high quality beer, preferably on tap. A luxury product on the other hand corresponds to a dream. They do not need to be satisfied. Sometimes their existence alone makes us happy. Luxury brands must be and are sensitive to the difference between their level of awareness and their penetration. And he says in this difference lies the dream. The product is known by all but bought by a few.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  6. Before I forget with respect to this Bernard Arnault question, I just want to make one more comment or maybe a couple more comments. One is Hermes was not the first one that he missed. He tried doing something similar with Gucci before it ended up in what is now known as caring. And the second comment I want to make is there is a similar effort going on at Richmont today. LVMH has a deep interest in Richemont as well and there's likely some change of management team coming up within that company and he finds many of those brands very attractive. I just wanted to mention that before I forgot. Back to your question about the mode of Nermasiad, it's a wonderful question. Before talking about the mode, I think it's appropriate to again bring up Kaferer's book, The Luxury Strategy. I know you discussed that with Christian. Three very important

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  7. On this ownership in 2022, they took a further step to unify this family ownership by bringing eight families together under an investment vehicle called Krefeld Invest. Krefeld is where the founder Theoria Hermes was born. So this will be a family ownership business for a long, long time. This was, as I said up front, a very colorful and a momentous episode in the long history of Hermes.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  8. Time, well, that's true, but do you prefer her mess or do you prefer Leo Vuitton? Do you prefer proust or standhall and the two great riders? I think we can prefer one or the other, but we are bound to recognize that both are great talents. I said Christian Dior's culture is different from that of Chanel's, which is different from that of Fermes. And that's different from that of Louis Vuitton's. I find it rather pointless to oppose cultures. What I believe is that LVMH in today's world is best placed to preserve the crucially important cultures for the future of these companies. And now that we are a significant shareholder of Hermes, we can guarantee the preservation of their culture in the long term. So that's all about how Bernard and LDMH came at this. But remembering this event and how they went through, the family finally put another fine touch.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  9. Able to resolve their differences in court cases continued on for a number of years, for a few years after that. And finally, in 2013, Bernard and LBMH announced that they will distribute the stake in their mess to its shareholders and institutional investors. Even though he had been building up a stake for about nine years, he talked about Hermaz for the first time in an earnings call in 2011. Now Bernard said something very interesting. He said, I understand that they were a bit surprised that we came in, but we ourselves, we didn't expect to become shareholders of Hermes and the circumstances meant that starting from a financial investment standpoint, for technical reasons, it was more or less imposed upon us. In the same call, Bernard acknowledged the question about the difference in culture between the two organizations. from that of Louis Vietnam.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  10. Chairman of the company said we are the target of incessant attacks of the kind we have never seen in 174 years even though LVMH says its approach to us is friendly I don't agree with friends like this who needs enemies every time Hermes responded verbally LVMH upped its stake by the end of 2011 its stake had gone up to 22.6% as you would have suspected by now there were suits counter suits back and forth and the regulatory authorities were concluding their investigation and when they did they ordered LVMH to pay 10.4 million dollars for serious and successive breaches of public disclosure requirements LVMH said it would appeal the rolling and you guessed it increased its stake further now to 23.1

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  11. Said, I'm not a fan of conflict, but I can fight from time to time if necessary. He quietly helped the family set up H51, a private holding company with more than 50 family members who agreed to pool all their shares and to keep them in it for at least 20 years. H51 was designed to have the first right of refusal should a family member decide to sell. LVMH, of course, didn't back down in spite of this investigation and all those responses from the family. In fact, in May 2011, it announced that its stake had gone up to 21%. And this elicited further response from the family and Patrick. Patrick said this whole affair is ungentlemanly or mess is culture is fundamentally incomparable with that of her conglomerate such as Ilvm H, Bertrand Puet, the head of that Puet branch of the family.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  12. In order to avoid any sort of a discovery. Nothing happened for about five years. Then the action started again in 2007 when LVMH engaged in a string of complex cash-settled equity swaps through financial intermediaries and subsidiaries. However, in 2010, LVMH's stock swaps with its own subsidiaries brought its stake in Hermes to an accumulated 14.2%, which is what triggered that call. In spite of strong protests from Puak and Guaran and Duma families, LVMH maintained its stake and flatly denied that it was entertaining ambitions to slowly gain control and take over her mess. While the French regulatory authority started an investigation into LVMH's investment, Patrick Thomas

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  13. As the family's anger and protestation were gathering steam, within less than a week, LVMH announced that it had raised its stake to seventeen point one percent. The big question in the minds of family and Patrick and everybody was how did he build such a big stake? Here's what they were able to find out. Between 2001 and 2002, LVMH acquired 4.9% stake through a handful of subsidiaries. French law requires the acquirer to disclose the identity if you go past 5%. And if it reaches 10%, the acquirer has to disclose his or her intentions. That's the reason why LDMH stopped at 4.9 to hide its identity. LDMH had banks in Luxembourg and Panama purchased shares in Hermes on its behalf. LDMH then paid these banks in cash.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  14. This was a momentous episode in the long history of Hermes. And just a couple of hours before the world would find out on October 23rd, 2010. Patrick Thomas, as I mentioned, he was the CEO, he was the first and the only non-family member who was the CEO. He was cycling through rural France when he got a call from Bernard Arnaud. He took the call standing on the side of the road. Arnault wanted him to know, you know, he was just alerting him that LVMH would be announcing that it had acquired 14.2% stake in Hermes. Hearing this, Patrick, who is enraged, had an immediate and colorful response.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  15. Remains public today, Jean-Louis Dumas was the CEO in the early 90s when he took the company public. He had a few reasons, apart from providing capital to strengthen its financial position, going public, allowed some of the family members to liquidate their holdings. And John Louis said, you know, it helped lessen the family tensions by allowing members to sell some shares without disputes over valuation among themselves. Today, in addition to the family itself owning such a huge percentage, about 80% of the employees own some shares of en masse. So it's also turned out to be a good compensation tool for the company as artisanship and culture within the organization is all important for the company. So that's a little bit about the history and why they went public and why they remain public.

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  16. He had three daughters, and so Emil Morris groomed his sons-in-law in the business in 1951, Robert Dumas, he took the helm. He was one of the sons-in-law cars. He's credited with the success of the Kelly bags even though they were founded a couple of decades earlier. In 1978, his son Jean-Louis Dumas, he took the helm and he's credited with making the Birkenbag, which is even more expensive today. In 2003, for the first time and the only time, Patrick Thomas, who's not a family member, he took over as the CEO. He ran the company, and he's the one who successfully defended this hostile takeover attempt from Bernard Dernow of LDMH, and then he handed over the Reins to Axel Dumas, who is currently the CEO. As to why Irmas

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  17. And his son, Charles M. L., he took over the business in 1880. And here's an interesting stat. He's the one who moved the company to 24 Faubourg, which is the headquarters even today. More than 150 years later, that is still the headquarters of the company. After Charles Mill, he retired, his two sons, Adolf and Emil Morris, they took over. And watching the decline in sales of horse, harnesses and saddles, a dolph, he left the business in 1919, letting M.L. Morris be the sole owner. That was the glorious period when he introduced many products that are popular even today. For example, Saka de Peche, which is essentially the Kelly bag, let me know today, silk scarves, leather jacket for the zipper. These are all introduced during that period in the 20s and 30s.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  18. Was the grandson of the founder of theory together, these three branches of the family they currently control 67% of her mess. And this combined ownership is currently worth about $155 billion, making it the world's third wealthiest family. Al-Nahan family, the family that controls Abu Dhabi and Walton family from the Walmart wealth. Those are the only two that are ahead of this family group. At Eromaz, the family itself is one of the secrets and principal assets of the brand's success. They're the keepers of the heritage and know how to make it evolve without a revolution created in 1837. The company has always been independent and has been passed down from sun to sun as it expanded over time, from harnesses to saddles to everything that they sell today. The theory was the founder.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  19. It's actually controlled by three branches of the founding family the Dumas family, which I mentioned, Axel Dumas, is part of that branch. There is the Guran family, pardon my French actually, as you can tell. I'm originally from India. Spent all my life here in the US. I have an accent that's neither European nor American. And so I may be mispronouncing some of these French names. But the second families that Guerrand family and the third one is the Puac family. These three branches are

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  20. The world, data suggests that such businesses are quite rare. Now, the odds of a sixth generation family business is 500 to 1. Only 3% of the family businesses operate at the fourth generation. 30% of businesses get to the second and only 12% get to the third. So Irmaz is currently in ratified air, I would say. But why is that important? And there's a wonderful book called The Founders Mentality by Chris Zook and James Allen. They say that the founder's mentality constitutes a key source of competitive advantage and it consists of three main traits, an insurgent's mission, owners mindset, and an obsession with a frontline. They go on to show that the returns to the shareholders from these types of companies is three times higher than in other companies. Back to our

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  21. I mean, in answering your previous quest, and I listed just a couple of the features, quality and the craftsmanship, but the other important feature is this family ownership. This might be, in fact, slightly more important than many other features. Now, it's a classic family business company, as you said. That's more than 187 years old. There's a lot of history and some monumental decision points along the way. Axel Dumas, he's currently the sixth generation family member, who's the head of the organization. And from the Dumas family branch is his cousin, Pierre, who is essentially signing off on every product that comes out of the company. So the top two spots are held within the Dumas branch of the family. I'll come back to that in a second. While there isn't a precise count of sixth generation family-run companies around

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  22. Unthinkable, which is stand up to the impress of Japan. Obviously, this became a big issue and the currency or Axel Dumas' father, Jean-Louis Dumas, was the CEO at that time. It got to him. He intervened. He listened to both sides. And he agreed with the artisan that cutting that strip out would essentially change the nature of the bag. And so he actually had a new bag without the strips sent back to the impressive course. But it tells you a little bit about how the management team and the culture within the organization is all for the artisan and the creation.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  23. Yep, absolutely, as you correctly pointed out, this is a unique business and a unique management team in many regards. That's one of them. I told you that they have this commitment to the creation and the creator. There are many examples in that sense. For example, there was this leather artisan from France who moved to Japan. primarily his responsibility in Japan was repair related work. And one day Hermes got a request from the Empress of Japan saying that she wanted one of the bags that she carried that had some sort of strip, a leather strip. She wanted that to be removed. And this gentleman, this artisan, took a look at the bag and he suggested that they not remove it. If it was removed, it would change the complexion, the quality, and the true value of the bag. So he did.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  24. By the house, it was for this signature, this recognition is a source of delight every day because I'm living my dream of creating fragrances that uphold and embody all the values of this house. My only aim therefore is to create exceptional fragrances. That's a little bit about the craftsmanship that I mentioned. This is an integral part of how the company has put together this long-term success story.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  25. But the merging of certain senses. She says orders have a color for me. She has the unique ability to smell and taste color. Irma, as she says, is a playground for me, and I'm happy to work for a house with a lot of stories and roots. My day-to-day life here inspires me because I don't have the limitation of time or price. And choosing a perfume is not a question of marketing, but if we like the perfume or not. I'm exercising the real job of a real perfumer. We like to go where no one else has or will go. What's remarkable about Hermes is the constant faith placed in creation and the Creator, and that's a very, very important phrase to remember all through this. Hermes' commitment to the creation and the Creator. I'll come back to that in a few other places later. She says if I was chosen

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  26. Hermes invests heavily in training its artisans and preserving traditional craftsmanship techniques. They take a patient approach to production, focusing on quality over speed. Let me tell you something about this lady Christine Nagel. She's the head of the perfume division of Hermes and is termed as the nose of Hermes within the company. Perfumes make up just a few percent of the total business, but I think what in a recent interview that I read, what she said about her work, her career, and her mesus, her employer is very appropriate in terms of defining this craftsmanship. She created this perfume called H-24. This is the first perfume for men in the last 15 plus years. Christine is the first female perfumer for her mess. She asked the gift of what's called a synastace.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  27. It's inside, outclasses, it's outside. That's the classic stamp of a quality product. You know, therein lies that nobility. Ermas products are made to last a long time. Axel Dumas, the current CEO, and he says, we want our products to look even more beautiful 10 years later. In these types of products, there is no planned obsolescence or forcing the customer to buy a new collection because the previous ones no longer make sense. So that's the type of commitment, that's the type of quality that

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  28. And when he made the Macintosh, he had the engineers' names engraved inside each one of those computers. And he said real artists sign their work. No one would ever see them, but the members of the team knew that their signatures were inside. Why do I bring that? Steve Jobs episode here. Because I sometimes wonder if this quality obsession of her mess had an influence on Steve and how he thought about quality, although there is no direct evidence similar striking, I think. When many of Hermes' competitors began using sewing machines, Hermes refined the 400-year-old saddle stitch so that connoisseurs could distinguish between their inevitable craft work and mechanical sewing. A saddles underside rivals its upside.

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  29. To support that long term thinking, there are many factors that go into supporting that. Let me just highlight a couple of them and maybe we can address a few more as we go along. Quality is absolutely paramount to Hermes. One of the important features of this long-term thinking is the quality of the products. And again, allow me to digress a little bit. Walter Isaacson in the biography of Steve Jobs. He writes about how Steve Jobs was passionate about the quality of the computers. Steve and his father were working in building a fence around their house in Mountain New California when his father said you got to make the back of the fence that nobody will see just as good looking as the front of the fence. Even though nobody will see it, you will know it. And that will show that you are dedicated to making something perfect. This idea stuck with John

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  30. A wonderful question about blonde tongue. Anytime, let's phrase long term pops up, it piques my interest. Not to digress too much. I'm sure you've heard of Stuart Brand, the founder of Whole Earth Catalog. He created something called the long now foundation, which is essentially seminars on long-term thinking. It's a wonderful platform to follow. You may already know this with some of your followers may be interested. Back to your question. While there is no perfect count back in 2008, Bank of Korea found out that there were about 5,500 companies around the world that were more than 150 years old. At more than 187 years, Irma is already a part of a select group. Long-term is in its DNA. For ERMAS, long-term thinking is core part of its business philosophy and strategy.

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  31. 11 regions, 23,000 employees, 7,000 of them are artisans, and they sell it through their controlled distribution mechanism, about 300 stores around 45 countries.

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  32. And textiles that makes approximately 10% of sales. In the olden days it was known for its luxurious scarves and ties and other silk products. But as leather has kind of become big within the company, within luxury in general, silken textiles has come down to about 10%. And then the final category, which is sort of all encompassing, is what's defined as watch as jewelry and other home goods. And now that's the business end of it. What started off as a French company selling to the French more than 187 years ago has now ended up as a French company that exports almost 90% of its products. They still keep about 75% of the production within the country, and that's not by accident. That's a big part of the bigger strategy. Currently, they have 54 production sites across the country with

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  33. The heart of luxury strategy. Let me come back to providing this qualitative overview. And ERMAS as a company has 16 metiers. It's a French word. It's essentially a specialized metiers, a specialized craft or area of expertise within the company. Each metier represents a distinct domain of craftsmanship and creativity. We'll come back to that details as to various different components of this. But the products that Ermaz now produces falls into four buckets essentially. Leather goods, which is the largest within the company, accounts for about 50% of sales features the iconic brand names like the Birkenbag and the Kelly bags. Number two is the ready-to-wear. That's about 23% of sales. That includes clothing and accessories for both men and women. Number three is silk.

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  34. Luxury has always been morally condemned in ancient Greece. It was the philosophers and today it's more the moralists and politicians. Be that as it may, a luxury is here to stay. We have a very large and rapidly growing sector with both public and private companies. But given this moral condemnation, it also is appropriate to highlight that luxury as a concept has been around in the old continent, in Europe and to a certain extent in Asia. It's actually relatively new in the US. So what's luxury? And are there many, many definitions of this word luxury, but one that I really liked was from Bernard Arnault, the CEO of LVMH, said it's the ordinary of extraordinary people and the extraordinary of ordinary people essentially gets to

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  35. Over the years, the company has evolved into what we now know as a global luxury powerhouse, maintaining its reputation for exclusivity and quality. It's celebrated for its meticulous attention to detail and the artistry involved in its products. The brand emphasizes artisanal skills with many items handcrafted, the commitment to quality has positioned Eurames as one of the most valuable luxury brands globally, consistently ranking high in brand valuation studies. And a few weeks back or months back maybe you talk to my friend Christian Bellinger about LVMH and CAFR's book, The Luxury Strategy, and I'm sure we'll get into those as well. But luxury, this is probably a good time to kind of also define

    2024-09-13 · We Study Billionaires · TIP659: Hermès Stock Deep Dive w/ Shree Viswanathan · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT

  36. APR. I'm sure we'll get into some of the quantitative features of the business later. Let me get to the qualitative overview that you just asked. Irma's Paris is a prestigious luxury brand renowned for its exceptional craftsmanship and rich heritage. As I just mentioned, the name is Irma's Paris, not just Irmes, although outside of France and many of the stores it just goes by Hermes. Great Emerson in his essay titled Self-Reliance, he says an institution is the lengthened shadow of one man. Irmas is a very long shadow of theory Hermes who founded it in 1837 as a harness workshop. The company was selling high quality saddles and other leather goods to Europeans and ended up being European nobility over time.

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  37. Winston Churchill said the farther back you can look, the farther forward you're likely to see. Fortunately, Irma gives us more than 187 years to look back, although we have a much shorter history of only 30 plus years to look back since it went public in 1993. In the past, Claive and I've talked to you, I've seen this book 100 Bagger by my friend Chris Mayer right behind you. That's a fabulous book. In that book he says that on average it takes about 25 years for a company to become a hundred bagger. He was right on the button. Hermes took 25 years since going public in 1993 to become a hundred bagger in 2018. It's gone up more than 4x in the last six years since 2018 for a total return of more than 400 times.

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  38. Yeah, no, thank you for thinking about me as it related to Hermes. Yeah, it is one of my portfolio companies. I've owned it for a few years. And it's just, as you mentioned, it's a fabulous. It's a true definition of equality business. I will get into the details of how I define quality and why Ermes is still an interesting proposition for your followers and other investors. But yeah, nicely put cut from a different cloth. I would just add cut from a different leather.

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  39. It's a pleasure to be back again. Thank you for inviting me and your pronunciation of my last name is perfect. I like that.

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