YouSaid · the spoken record

Steve Barclay

lines on the record: 49
first: 2019-06-21
most recent: 2019-06-21
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“Sarison's just won the European and the Premiership trophies. So Saracens are looking pretty good at the moment. Yes, in the past leadership elections have come a cropper, but then these rules only apply until they don't apply.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, I mean, there were 17 government whips. I was the only one to back leave. And that was, you know, without potential risk to my career, because obviously it wasn't a popular decision with the leadership at that time. But I think it's more important, it comes back to sort of you look yourself in the mirror and you've got to be true to yourself. And I believed in leave. I thought that's what was right for the country. And even if it's going to damage your career, which it looked like doing at that time, then you've got to do what you believe in. And I think in politics, authenticity is the absolute sort of fulcrum to everything you must do. And for me, even though as a government whip at the time, no one else in the whip's office was back in leave, I just felt it was absolutely key that I stuck by my beliefs.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the thing with a Scrum Half issue in the middle of the action, because you get the bore loads and that interlink between the pack and the backs. And for me, yeah, I think whatever role you're doing, and I'm sure it's the same immediate, you want to be where the story is.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, in South Africa, they used to always have bigger swim halves, and the Welsh have had a few bigger swim halves. Nowadays, actually, the swim halves are getting more physical.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“One of the glory positions and the link between the backs and forwards, and you're blindside actually, if you look at people like Richard Hill, is usually one of your most valued players. I guess it varies on, but yeah, I would have thought a bit of physicality in the background.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, quite the depends whether you're talking six, seven, eight. Eight is often one of the best footballers. Seven is tend to be the...”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think he's got this step of low meal, although low more digital people as well as them. But I'd probably stick him in the back row.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, colleagues, I mean, it's for each colleague as sad, it's a very personal decision, but I think colleagues will clearly have looked at the European parliamentary elections and it'd be odd if they didn't do. And that will have shaped the leadership race without doubt.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think his fortunes of Ebbenflowed, and I think you're right, Nick. I think things have been at a different time that may have been a different result in the leadership. I think it goes to where the house is.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, I think firstly, quite a bit of work has already been done in government on MaxFak and some of the issues that we looked at previously. But I think also, yeah, let's be candid about it. I think applies both on that and also reaching out across Parliament and in fact with the Labour Tours. I think there are lessons in terms of how we engage and what we could have done earlier. And I think we probably could have done more on technology earlier. But it's important that we do it. We're listening to Parliament and we're cracking on with it now.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, we had a technical group of business leaders, in particular from Northern Ireland, but cross-section from different sectors, from the police, technical experts, lawyers, bringing them together in Parliament, because Parliament has said we want to look at the alternative arrangements. How do we use technology on the border? So I've been chairing a meeting really of bringing those experts so we look at what is technically possible and how we apply that moving forward.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I favour no deal over no Brexit, but I think a deal is better. I think the challenge, I mean, the big challenge is you've got two hurdles. You've got one, which is, are there any concessions that will get the deal through Parliament because Parliament has become increasingly polarised? And then second, there's a timing issue because as a minister that sort of covers the bill itself, you've got to get the legislation through the House. And if you look at precedent around things like Maastricht, then that will be a significant challenge just on the timescales from a 17th October European Council.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, Junkers' term finish. In fact, I think that's right in terms of when he finishes. But obviously the top jobs, again, is one of the key topics at the moment in terms of what are being discussed. I mean, when I was talking with your leaders, you get a range of views, so many will say withdrawal agreement is locked down and it's the political declaration they might lean into. There's others that indicate if something were to come out, for example, as an island of island solution, there'd be much more amenable. You know, you're going to range of views. But this will be for the new Prime Minister to test. And obviously they're getting quizzed. Polly's plans on that very issue. Yeah, well, they'll be quizzing.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So change Parliament. Looking at the polls, there's nothing to say, and based on the last two elections, they didn't necessarily be decisive of itself. The point is, until those conversations are had, we won't know. But the future relationship is what we should be focused on. And it's in both sides' interest to get a deal. And ultimately, that's it. That's why I backed the deal, because I think that is the best for us. If we are unable to get a deal, I do think we need to leave because the bigger issue, and I think it really goes down to this point of trust, the big issue in constituencies like mine is that the result is honoured.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We can't know. I mean, to what extent the new commission president will take the same line or different, a new prime minister, will that reshape it? Will the House step in on no deal or will it not? To what extent are we going to have an election? And if so, on what time scale?”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I'm saying that's the more important issue, actually, in both science industry. It's the key to the lockdown. It's difficult to get onto that whilst we've still got this sort of burning platform to address, but it is the more important for both sides. And I think there's leading voices that are increasingly starting to recognize that. I mean, the issue around no deal, which again doesn't get discussed really, is the impact on Ireland is greater than it is for the UK. And when you discuss with people like the behavioural unit, for example, it's looking at what is the balance for both sides, not what is purely from a UK prism, what is the impact on no deal on the UK.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, to follow the divorce knowledge, it's not the best analogy, but follow that all the argument is on the separation, not the custody of the kids and all the future issues. And I think for me, if you look at, for example, the Commission themselves put out the big challenges for the EU on things like climate change, on security, on migration, they're not issues linked to the European institutions. These are big global challenges. The growth of population in Africa, if you look at the numbers in Nigeria, for example, those are the big challenges. And the UK has a key role to play in that relationship. And that's where the debate isn't. The debate tends to be on these sort of very sort of short-term winding down issues rather than what sort of more fundamental relationship the UK and the EU are going to have moving forward.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think because they're trying to predict the future and to quote the Ode Rumsfeld, you know, it's the known unknowns, and this is one of the issues, the challenges for the leadership candidates at the moment. And people are saying, well, talk us through your plan and all of the plans have obstacles, and it will depend. So people will say, oh, well, they take no deal off the table. Well, we don't know if there's a vote between no deal and revoke how the House would respond to that. I mean, the key issue, again, that's been lost, and it'd be interesting the conversations you're having, is to what extent people are focusing on the future relationship because so much is on the winding down, which is what the withdrawal agreement is. It's the divorce. It's not the future.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“The problem for me with the way Brexit's been approached is it hasn't been an opportunity for renewal to reach out to those communities that feel forgotten, to actually look at different parts, the ethnic minorities community, two-thirds of Asian voters voted remain. We've got a discriminatory immigration system. How do we refashion that in a way that reassures those that voted remain but the one third that also voted and use Brexit as a renewal opportunity which we've not done?”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, there's some of that because obviously in trade deals there's a trade-off in terms of sovereignty. So, of course, it's more nuanced. But, I mean, the reality is that people have to feel that they can elect the people that are making decisions. They have to come back to constituencies like mine and answer the questions. There is that connection, there is that ability to change a government. Now, I was a candidate in 1997. I didn't like the result. There's no question that the country wanted a change. They were able to effect a change. And I think it really connects to the more fundamental issue of Brexit for me, which is that what drove the result was a breakdown of trust. The breakdown of trust with MPs following the expenses scandal, breakdown of trust with bankers following the 08 financial crisis, with journalists, if I may say, following some of the issues there, with big business, the way bonuses at the top of businesses work. And I look at communities that just feel they weren't being listened to. And it's that lack of accountability. And I think...”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, for me coming into politics, it wasn't about that, you know, so it's much more about how do you see things in the community that need to change? And are you going to put effort into that and get involved? I think on Europe, it's a belief in democracy, sovereignty. It's looking more globally. I remember as a constituency and P, a farmer coming to me, you know, to complain about an issue in terms of pesticides. And he got quite annoyed when I was saying, well, why are you coming to see me? And because you're the Member of Parliament. And when he said, well, I have no say on this and explained it to him. He got quite cheesed off about it. And for me, I think there's a fundamental issue that the people making decisions should be elected and accountable. And that disconnect, I know we can argue out the tiers and different issues, but that disconnect between the decision-making within the European institutions and people coming to my surgery.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, no. He feels very strongly about it. And I think that for me has been very useful because it gives you that context that there are people with very, people who you respect who are bright, who are genuine, who have a different view to you on the issue. And I think that's very much in terms of how I always approach it, you know, recognizing that there's a range of views. And I think one of the frustrations on the Brexit side is often our views are delegitimized. You're treated as”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He feels very strongly about it, and as do I. And so we don't argue with brothers, and we end up talking more about the sport and being whatever else rather than politics.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, quite the opposite. In fact, my eldest brother is a European official, a very staunch remainer. No, he works for the European Investment Bank and has been in Luxembourg the last 19 years. So within my own family, but that's been quite useful because in recognizing the need to compromise, in recognizing the country's split, I know that from my own family. I know that people are split and that there's good reasons on both sides.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I mean, I did look at it because I actually heard people like Dominic in really high regard. And so that was a consideration. On one hand, you offered a cabinet post. That's a strong offer. But I did look at that. But for me, the decision I reached in November is pretty much what many others reached in March, which is it wasn't about looking at the withdrawal agreement in isolation. It was about the balance of risks. And it was saying, well, if we don't do that, then what are the alternatives? And my view, and it wasn't just me, the other Brexiteers like Jeffrey Cox, like Michael Gove, like Liam Fox, who came to a similar view. And I think part of the difficulty with the debate and what I could see at the time and my frustration was that some other colleagues didn't do this. We should say, well, if we don't support this, where is the debate going to go? And, you know, if you were flu chart in it, you could see that each turn of the wheel was going to make it more difficult. And particularly with the European elections. And I think that was.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, so I mean, she was quite explicit that the withdrawal agreement's locked down, the PD, the political decorations done, that I would be leading on phase two. The problem is we've not gone on to phase two. And dealing with the parliamentary side. So there was a big job in the medium term or what was expected to be the short term in terms of getting in on phase two and in terms of taking the legislation through parliament, but not in terms of negotiating the deal. And then we've ended up being stuck on that with a lot of stuff in parliament, but not so very little certain negotiation from a European perspective.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“What I thought is it's where the action is. And I mean, it's interesting that almost all my first meetings at Cabinet as presenting papers at. So you go straight into the deep end on it. Parliamentary wise, you know, it's a pretty key area of focus in terms of people feel very strongly. There's quite a lot of aggression on it. So normally there's goodwill on issues, whereas Brexit tends to bring out quite strong emotions. So as a learning area, as an area really to get into issues, it was a very good brief to take on. There was this sort of oddity because the negotiation had been completed. So I was coming in at a pretty sort of odd time.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Brexit, isn't it? Jeffrey I don't know about Jeffrey actually, although he may have done, but certainly Michael did, yeah.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I mean, they're extremely good at handling themselves. What's interesting about that committee in particular is you do get a good insight into some of the perm sex and how they approach it. But no, I mean, they're very well equipped to deal with that. And to be honest, they win pretty much all those encounters. In fact, the only area you really get traction on that committee is often when you get stuff from the inside. And then that's the occasions where perhaps you're more successful. Generally speaking, they win most of those battles.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think it's fair to describe it like that, but I was just very interested in what the report say, what was buried at the back of it, where were the ambiguities, because reports have to be signed off by departments. So the more ambiguous the NEO report, usually the more interesting that section is. Was there a moment?”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To ask, it didn't do me much good, but. I think I misunderstood what you needed to do in Parliament. So I had connections arrived and was probably a bit naive in the I thought doing your homework, reading the reports, doing your own stuff on top, interrogating the issues, trying to ask good questions would demonstrate competencies for a minister and that would be a way forward. And that isn't actually the way to progress. And I think if anything, it probably caused annoyance with George Osmo and some others that I was asking quite challenging questions of sex and so forth.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When I got involved when, so not through student side, but getting involved locally, and it was 1949, is the worst time for the party morale was lockbottom, we're getting bashed, and I just got involved in Chester at the local level and found I quite enjoyed it and then ended up signing in 97 as a result. I mean, to be honest, there weren't many people coming forward at that time, particularly for seats like that. So I sort of got involved in that base. But it's more sort of addressing unfairness, addressing social challenges, being willing to ask questions. And I think the question really is what do you want to do with your life? Do you want to do something vocational? Or do you want to pursue the law and those issues? And I found personally I found the law quite boring, very repetitive, you're looking at the same contracts over and over again. I think at a senior level, law becomes more into the negotiation and the things that attracted me into it in the first place. But at the junior level as a lawyer, it's pretty turgid stuff.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think it depends what drives you really. Are you driven by money? Is that status, that sort of thing? Or do you want to change stuff? And for me, the appeal of politics was to try and change things. And that's very much the test now that at the end of each year you look at your constituency. What have you physically changed? Is there a devil it building you've got addressed rather than what press coverage you get? I get that.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Firstly, home will always be the site of Lith and Windmill. So, yes, you know, that's where I was born and I'm a Lancashire lad at heart. But I think people, one of the misleading things about the fence is Cambridge's in the name. I mean, Cambridge and areas like Wisbeach are very different. And actually, there's a lot more in common with the area I represent to the north than there is with other parts of the eastern region and certainly with London. And so I think there's often a tendency to confuse Cambridgeshire as a whole when actually Cambridge and the North Edder County are two very different areas. And actually the character and the issues are completely different.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“She was not popular. I think it was more down to the way job losses at that time were in the north to the south. And even now, I mean, I look at, for example, just last week, Andy Burnham was making a point on buses and the cost of buses in Manchester compared to London. And it is quite outrageous. I look at a story like that and think there is an issue there. So there was, I think, a sense of a north-south divide when I was growing up. And I think there still is in many parts of the North that people feel. If you look at transport between Leeds and Manchester and some of the issues that are still bubbling away, and I was aware of that, certainly when I was growing up, but I wasn't really into politics. I liked history at school. That was my favourite subject. And I was interested in that aspect. But I wasn't interested in politics.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I didn't think I was good enough. So, I mean, I played relatively seriously. My middle brother was better and played even more seriously. But it was amateur in those days anyway. But ultimately, I didn't think I was good enough.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You trained pretty much each day at school. I play on a Saturday morning. I'd watch the Ruby Club Saturday afternoon, and then I'd play at the club on a Sunday morning. So rugby was pretty much the issue. I have two older brothers. They both played. My dad coached 39 years every Sunday morning. Did you do of that?”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was born in politics when I was a teenager. I was too busy playing with me. Oh, right. We're talking about a rebuke. No, not at that stage. I mean, the view in Lancashire of Thatcherism was different to perhaps elsewhere in the country and certainly the way perhaps it's viewed now. So that wasn't the case. I mean, I wasn't involved in politics even at university, so I never went to the union. I was never part of any politics until I left university. It was only at law school that I got involved. But I didn't get involved in student politics even then. So I've never been parts of politics at a young age. I mean, my background was around rugby. That's what we did. That's what we did at weekends. We played pretty much every day.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't know. I think firstly, I don't think he had a particularly favourable view of politicians as a whole. Was he as a trade unionist? He was an affiliate to any other party, so he wasn't there. He was affiliated to Labour or any other party. And I think he saw me with opportunities in terms of the other jobs I was doing and thought that I'd probably have more influence if I reached a higher level of business than in politics. So he was always keener on that.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, he had, to me, has a very low opinion of all politicians. It was very against me becoming an MP and a politician. I thought that was a waste of a career. So he tended to have a sort of low view of politicians as a whole.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Well, it was the insurance union, which is now actually part of Unite Subify. So he's always believed in the trade union movement. And so that workers' rights, looking after people, particularly, for example, on unfair redundancy, those sort of issues. And that was always very important to him. But not in a party sense. He had a pretty...”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Nah Med worked in IT but was particularly in the union. Yeah, he's very committed to the trade union movement. He was a full-time trade union official for a few years in his career for quite a while. Were you union?”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's a great pace, and yeah, I mean, Litham's a nice area. That's where I was born and brought up. My mum's from Blackpool, dad from Berry.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the challenges are different. So, I mean, I had a good kicking in as a candidate in 97 in the city of Manchester in Blakely, which, as you know, that part of the world, Nick, is not the most fertile temperature at the best of times for the Tories. Going into working men's clubs in the 97 election was quite interesting and seeing the guys playing Snooker and engaging them about the football and all the stuff other than politics was quite an interesting exposure. Lancaster was slightly different. He's a marginal. I lost my lesson 500, but I was still in my 20s. So it's still a formative time.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't really see it like that because I think each job you do you learn from. And whenever you move into a new job, and it depends if you like change. I've always liked change. And one door closes, another one opens. And I think you learn from different things you do. You then approach your next job with the benefits of that. So wherever you go, I think it's a benefit doing different roles. And you look forward, you know, if you're not in cabinet, you have more freedom. If you're in cabinet, you have the opportunity within your department. So the swings and roundabouts and it's about what you do with it.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think with colleagues it sometimes depends what question they're answering. Are they picking someone in terms of government? Are they thinking that an election is coming and who is going to reach out? Sometimes there's personal connections with particular candidates that they've worked with as ministers that they know well. So there's not sort of one reason that drives the parliamentary party in a particular candidate's direction. It's a very personal decision that people come to.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Feel you like up in the stands. You're right, there's sort of two actions going on there's the continuity within government, the regular drum beater meetings and getting on with the day-to-day job. But the real action, the interest for you guys in the media, the interest for most of parliament is very much on the leadership race and that's really where the topics in the tea room, the discussions, the energy is whilst the rest of us are getting on with the day job.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I've never known Skullduggery being alleged in any votes in the Conservative Party at any time in its two hundred years history. But if Hang on, you're being ironic there. Just a touch. I think the important thing is”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Big challenge is you've got two hurdles, you've got one, which is are there any concessions that will get the deal through Parliament? Because Parliament has become increasingly polarised. And then second, there's a timing issue because as the minister that sort of covers the bill itself, you've got to get the legislation through the House. And if you look at precedent around things like Maastricht, then that will be a significant challenge just on the timescales from a 17th October European Council.”
2019-06-21 · Political Thinking with Nick Robinson · The Steve Barclay One · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source