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Sumeet Shah

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33
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2015-12-23
most recent
2015-12-23
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1
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  1. “Absolutely, Harry, I appreciate you taking me on for this. And again, anything I can do to help, and feel free to tell all of the people listening from this. You can pass my email, but also the easiest way to actually capture me is on Twitter. The handle is peeds, but P-E underscore F-E-D-S.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “But it's exciting about that. And it's just also the story and the breakdown behind it, it spoke to Andrew in terms of building a brand and building a business, but it also spoke to me from my consumer health background because the bigger thing is the FDA does not require the women's sanitary product companies to list the ingredients and products inside of tampons. And there are a significant number of chemicals that are in there. You also have to understand what those chemicals, it makes the product 100% unbiodegradable. So right now they're using plastic applicators for the 100% biodegradable tampons for Lola right now, but they're going to be transferring that to a biodegradable one as well. But the idea is, I imagine it just will completely decompose. It's just, it is one of the most environmentally unfriendly products out there.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “I mean, it's funny because I definitely would love to meet Carly, but more importantly, I also want to do it on a business angle because what's important for us is for all the products and things that we have, it's like, hey, give these headphones from Caden a try. I think you'd like them.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “Yes, no, well, I will mention just quickly about what that one does, and then I'll mention the most other recent investment. So that one is something in the clothing space, specifically in menswear. The other one, though, which, oh man, this one was an easy yes for us. It's a company called Lola. It is a subscription service for tampons and for women's sanitary products. Now, reason why we said yes. Jordana and Alex are two very smart, very brilliant women who are putting this company together. We are probably going to put even more firepower behind them. We actually weren't able to do the amount that we wanted to do because of how strong of an investor cap table that we have in there. We're in there with like box group and Vayner and even actually Carly Kloss, the supermodel.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “One that I read not too long ago is Things A Little Birdie Told Me by Biz Stone. Basically, it was Biz's take on. Definitely a really good book about the building of Twitter, but also just great business strategies and styles.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “I think I'll be okay because Netaporte and Eukes, the merger, made a lot of sense for both sides. I mean, having the back end of Yukes with the front end of Neta Porte and what they've done has been absolutely fantastic. It is worrisome that Natalie is no longer there, but I think Neta-Forte will still do okay because it's also, you got to think about all the lieutenants that people have come through. Now we'll see in six months how many people have actually left, but I'm not too worried about the future of Neta Porte.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “Sparrow started in Boulder, outdoor voices started in Boulder, SendGrid started in Boulder, so on and so forth. And it's very comforting. Sparrow and Boulder as a whole is continuing to keep growing.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “Sparrow has been around for a number of years, and they have chugged away in terms of building these great companies' products. And the way that Spero has been able to do so well is just they had their two or three products that just, they finally got their big break in stores. And what really gets me excited about Spero is they took the ball that Bob Eiger gave them, I mean, pun intended, I guess, and ran with it. They just took it and they ran with it and they sprinted with it. Bigger thing also I would say even, but just being about bullish on Sparrow, is that would be bullish on boulder Colorado. I mean, I was there a few weeks ago working with Tech Stars, working with Galvanized, working with Boomtown, three accelerator programs out there, working with the Veneta project, which is opening a boulder chapter out there. And there's just so much focus towards building strong businesses and building great products. I mean, Brad created Tech Stars in Boulder.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “Oh man, it's probably close between term sheet by Dan Primac or strictly VC by Connie Lezos. I've known Dan for NConnie for quite a while. I've known them actually when they were back at PE Hub. Dan created PE Hub, and Dan and I have known each other for a long time. So, I mean, term sheet has always just been.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “The Simpsons style about the failure, about the spectacular failure, maybe, but at least on the bright side we're not having Susie Q from South Dakota investing in that startup, at least for now.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “To design the jawbone up and jambox has this amazing pedigree of a background and had trouble raising venture funding for her startup. And I'm just like, what's going on? Why is this happening here? Anyway, the bigger thing is, coming back to the original point, Silicon Valley and New York need to exist. They absolutely need to exist because they feed each other. I mean, in terms of, they need to exist in terms of the way they look through startups. I mean, the center of the universe comes from New York. All the major industries have to come through New York in terms of building up their businesses. It's just the way it is. And there's nothing that doesn't mean anything against Silicon Valley. And what's also actually nice about that dollar in a dream mentality is if a startup fails, the blast wave only stays within Silicon Valley. Yeah, the tech media can go have their fun and laugh, you know, Nelson.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “Do it better. There's a lot more methodical thinking. There's a lot more attention to detail. I just keep seeing a lot of great product startups that are female founder-led that are doing very well. And look, I mean, we've invested in a lot of great male-led product startups, and I know we're going to continue to. But it just gets me excited, gets me personally excited when I get to see amazing women founders like Meredith Perry of U-Beam or Billy Whitehouse of wearable experiments or the entire team at Revelar that's over in TechSar's Boulder. I mean, I could go on and on and on. I mean, Nora Levinson of Caden, one of our co-founders of one of our portfolio companies, like you've got a woman who literally worked under Eve Bahar”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Much safer place for it. Now, quite frankly, Silicon Valley also has a lot of issues. I mean, women in tech is a black guy, I think, is an understatement in the world of startups and venture capital. And part of my French, but it makes me so fucking frustrated that It's such a problem. We invest a lot in women at Brand Fountry too. Seven out of 13 companies are female founder-led. Three out of the seven are two women co-founder teams. And they get product startups most of the time better than men.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “I wouldn't say I'm putting my faith in New York, but I do definitely say that there are very different mindsets and styles to New York versus Silicon Valley or San Francisco if you really want. The bigger thing is New York really focuses on building sustainable businesses. Silicon Valley and San Francisco is a dollar and a dream mentality. That needs to exist because we will never have the Googles, the Facebooks, the Ubers, the etcs of the Airbnbs of the world, primarily because these big ideas probably would not have gotten funded in New York because everyone's going to look through traction, everyone's going to go through really revenue streams and everything. And that doesn't mean that these companies could not have existed and done well within New York, and definitely know they would. But when it's a really big idea, just need the capital in order to really get it going, Silicon Valley is going to be a...”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “Investors are probably going to have an answer for it. We try to build a reputation of brand foundry both for our current portfolio companies as well as startups that we get excited about to be as approachable as possible. And startups work seven days a week, okay? What's so important to us as investors, and I cannot say this enough times, we have a moral obligation to be as helpful and as approachable as we can to startups. And to startup founders, because They're putting their lives, they're putting their blood, their sweat, their tears, their livelihoods into these things. And if we're not being helpful, we're doing them a disservice and we're doing ourselves a disservice.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “So, first off, if a startup ever thinks a sign of weakness for them to reach out to their investors for help, there is something very seriously wrong with that startup founder. You have to understand that this is a two-way street. We are going to do everything we possibly can to help, to be as helpful, to be as approachable to our founders. Because the bigger thing is if we have an introduction to that we can make and we understand what's going on in this specific part of the business, we can be a lot more helpful. The other side of the piece is sometimes you're going to get so bogged in as a founder on something and you're going to be so stuck within the trees that you're never going to think about before. So like, oh, wait, if I stepped two or three steps back, take a look at it from a bigger angle and understand, okay, who can actually help me with these kinds of issues or help me with these kinds of items, you'll probably recognize that you're...”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “250 million, 500 million, 750 million. And that's actually relative to a lot of their publicly traded counterparts pretty strong valued companies. And if you keep those kinds of valuations over time, when you're going to exit the market, you're going to have a much better opportunity for a large conglomerate or private equity firm or even just going IPO that you're going to be making a much better return in general. So it's frustrating to see that a lot of people will want to rely on unicorns. I truly believe that by building those doubles and triples and over time building your reputation of handling those doubles and triples, you're going to find a unicorn yourself. I mean, with Andrew's old term, six out of them are over $100 million valuation. Two of them are over half a billion of those six. And then one of those six is $1.2 billion valuation. And that's Warby. And those half billion are both Harry's and birch box.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “Also built on a strong relationship with RLPs to be like, look, this is the way that we're going to be. This is the way that we're going to focus and make the right returns. What's actually more important to me about that kind of level is you might not be able to have a bunch of unicorns that will make a significant return and really will just cancel out all the others. The way that Andrew and I focus with Brown Foundry and the way Andrew worked with Zig Capital was to really work hard and build out strong sustainable businesses. And I think that's also the way that New York and the New York Venture Capital world kind of works versus Silicon Valley that looking to build these strong, well put together, sustainable businesses where they could be acquired for strong amounts of money by larger competitors or they just become part of the economy, you're ending up with companies that are getting valued at”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Now it's funny when you mention that again, ultimate respect to Eileen and Cowboy Ventures, but the bigger thing is we focus a lot on doubles and triples. Again, a lot of these quotes and quotations are coming in from a technology and software standpoint where you need a unicorn of a billion dollar valuation or at least close to it to really make a strong ultimate return for your investors for your limited partners because the ultimate ugly reality about venture capital is no matter how good of a job a venture capital firm can do in terms of helping startups, bringing advice, making introductions, growing the business and whatnot, we have a fiduciary duty to our investors. It sucks at times because we want to do more. We want to do as much as we possibly can to help. You know, it's unfortunate that we have to also have that overbearing. But at the same time, we...”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “I mean, our due diligence takes an average of two to four weeks depending on our past relationship with the co-founders or with the entrepreneurs running the show. But I would say definitely the bigger thing is that I really just want to get a better understanding of how the business works. And then I really want to get a better understanding of their backgrounds. I hope that startup founder should understand is like, when you're coming from larger experiences and coming for really strong backgrounds by company by company, we're going to do our homework. We're going to ask and we want to really are going to try and get as much information about you and how you work and your style is necessary. Just, you know, everything is public in the internet, really. And it's so important and imperative to showcase how good of a founder you can be. You're never going to be perfect. There's no question about it. But you have to be aware of the way your work style is.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “And the BC will be excited about what you're doing if he or she really understands what you're doing and just provide any sort of advice. And that also gives you the higher probability of that VC even considering investing in you.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “Day to day work behind the scenes and may not be part of the spotlight the entire time, but people are going to recognize your work. Sometimes those roles will switch around, but you have to make sure you figure out who exactly it's going to be filling out the general piece of the role. Then, of course, it's cohesiveness. I mean, you need to make sure that you guys can work together and understand and respect each other's opinions, expect each other's differences, and understand each other's limitations. But the bigger thing is also with startups as you're going through the first 100 days Never ever be afraid to ask for advice. VCs, we love doling out advice. We love doing out feedback, like quick, quick fire feedback. Because if you can just come up to us and say, like, hey, I've got this startup, this is what we do, I wanted to talk to you because you're focused in the same sector, but we're trying to go focus on ABC kind of thing right now. We'd love to get your feedback. And usually it'll end up becoming like 15 minutes over.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “You have to make sure above everything else that your team is just so cohesive and solid. You have basically the three roles that you have to iron out, which is the marketer, the operator, and the technician. And depending on the kind of startup, technician can be almost negligent or it could be absolutely crucial. I mean, with a more technology-heavy, again, I'll just focus on our area that we expertise in the product side. If you're working in a more high-tech consumer or if you're working on things that really require that extra software to back everything through, you're going to need a technical co-founder. But with like something of e-commerce, it's almost negligent. But you really need someone who can be the face of the brand and who can sell the shit out of your product, sell the crap out of your company, and be able to be that face. Then you need someone who is really going to handle those.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “It's a case by case basis. I mean, the way that we do a lot of our due diligence is really focusing on people, product, and pipeline. And if there are a lot of really strong areas and strong pieces that we're comfortable with that knock off a lot of check boxes within our due diligence before they've launched the product, I mean, we've invested a couple companies pre-launch, we'll be okay. And a lot of them will be kind of in the later stages of pre-launch. It's like if you think about a healthcare, there's like three stages of clinical trials that a drug has to go through in order to actually get FDA approval. I would almost suggest that we would basically start looking to come on in with an ear on stage two, potentially stage three.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Based crowdfunding, I would definitely say it's a little bit more competition, but again, we would love to work alongside them, especially as while there are more and more equity crowdfunding platforms out there like the Seed Invests and Angelists of the World.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “Absolutely not. I actually work very closely with a lot of the Ward's based crowdfunding platforms, so it's actually, and just as an FYI, we've invested in a crowdfunding platform. So Indiegogo and Kickstarter, the bigger thing for us actually is we want to work alongside them to help really facilitate great companies who come through. Like I'm close with the head of hardware for Kickstarter. I'm close with the head of hardware in the Northeast section for Indiegogo. And as they're going through great products and as they're going through things, I mean, you're going to see a lot of cloudy, interesting startups or interesting products that are go through Kickstarter. It'll do really well and they really don't need to exist. But the bigger thing is they always are always looking for great companies that will be looking to use that as an extra tool for marketing. And they're looking just to keep using their resources deeper and really work more closely with investors. So we're doing everything we can on the rewards base.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “There is a lot of money out there, and it's a little dangerous to see as we're really charting towards sort of familiar waters in terms of valuations. But the good thing at least about product is there are more and more investors out there that are just very much paying attention to it not being the next shiny thing.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “But the bigger thing for me is the Series A Crunch definitely exists a lot when it comes to technology and app focus and software focused startups. When it comes to products, there is a lot of money that you're starting to see being raised in the seed round. You're seeing $1 million rounds, $2 million rounds, $2.5 million rounds. What's very interesting about is the combination of factors of where you have repeat entrepreneurs that are really coming in, like for example Davis Smith of Cotapaxi, who we invested in, raises a $3 million seed, but the bigger thing was because he two times successful entrepreneur. However, you also will deal with other starts that are raising about a million, and really the million dollar seed is kind of an average these days on product because you need the right amount of money to handle the entire production sourcing and distribution processes and of course have enough money left over for marketing. So I'm not too worried when it comes to Series A Crunch for our sector. I'm definitely worried in general because”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “It definitely concerns me, and I definitely just want to say I do have the ultimate respect for Sarah Lacey, even though I don't always agree with her. The same thing actually goes for her colleague Paul Carr.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “We focus on seed rounds every now and then a pre seed round, so it could be like an angel or like post-angel where they just need a little bit of money to kind of help with the launch. One of our companies, which we did the preseed round for, is a company called 19th Amendment. It's the fashion platform for emerging young fashion designers to produce, distribute, and sell their products.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “They need help on BizDev. Why not? I've always been curious about startups. Basically, what happened was I was there for about six months, about four months in, kept meeting all these startups, and they're all asking, like, do you know anyone who can help with capital? I'm like, I don't, the only person I know I haven't talked to in two years, he reached out to me, actually, Andrew. We reconnected in January of 2014 to catch up. I offered to be like, hey, happy to send some startups your way just out of kindness. 30 days later, offers me a full-time job. I immediately say yes because I was like, holy crap, I just got a one-way ticket to venture capital. And then two weeks later said, oh, it's actually not for Zig Capital. I'm starting this new fund and firm. Are you still interested? Of course. March 1st, 2014. We opened our doors for business. We're now about a year and a half in business and closing out Fund 1. And we have 13 companies in the portfolio.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “That the bigger thing is it was just such an interesting work that I was doing. A lot of outside the box thinking. So when I was working through that and I did that for five years, I did project work for the first two years, then ran the business development team for the last three, during that transition from project work to BizDev, I threw mutual friend met Andrew Mitchell, who was now my boss at Brant Foundry. So Andrew, a longtime operator from my background, he started three businesses in the Health and Beauty Space had an angel shop called Zig Capital that he had from 07 about 2014 invested over 30 startups including day one of Birchbox, day one of Harry's, Series A of Warby Parker, day one of Chloe Isabel, Double Dutch, etc. Very strong portfolio. He and I stayed in touch after meeting in 2011. July 2013, I moved into the startup world as a few friends were starting a development studio called GIST Digital. I was like, oh, that sounds really exciting.”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “Sure. So I got into the industry by pure accident. So I graduated from Columbia University as a biomedical engineer focused in biomechanics back in 2008 and went to the one industry that all biomedical engineers go to, which is private equity. The reason why I did that actually, yes, no, it's all laughing necessary. The reason I did that is because there was a firm called Gotham Consulting Partners that was hiring on campus and I was like, oh, it was started by a chemical engineer, a bunch of engineers work on the firm. We get to work on all different industries. I specialize in healthcare and pharma biotech, so I might be interested to learn more about other areas. And private equity has always been just so interesting about me, interesting to me about just how it works. And PE consulting is very much like two client system. You've got the deal team of the private equity firm and then the portfolio company itself that you're working with. So you've got to satisfy both parties, which is not the easiest. On top of that,”

    2015-12-23 · The Twenty Minute VC · 20 VC: Are Unicorns Necessary To Make Big Returns and The Series A Crunch with Sumeet Shah @ Brand Foundry Ventures · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source