YouSaid · the spoken record

Susie Alegre

lines on the record: 34
first: 2024-05-10
most recent: 2024-05-10
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

Every line below is reproduced as it was said and linked to the record it came from. Nothing here is summarised or generated. Directory · Search · Corrections

“To protection of your personal data is something that in 1948 probably people weren't talking about it in those terms, but ultimately data protection is necessary for us to enjoy our right to private life in a technological data-rich environment. And so I think we're going to see developments on what the rights in the UDHR mean and how they constrain or enhance our use of technology in different areas. But I don't think we're in need of A new declaration, and I think it's dangerous to suggest that the existing declaration is no longer relevant.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I don't think we need a new universal declaration on human rights. I mean, one of the things that I tried to show throughout the book was that all the rights, including civil and political rights and economic, social and cultural rights that you find in the Universal Declaration on Human Rights are relevant to the challenges that we're facing today and our future with AI. So I don't think we need a new declaration. What we perhaps do need is whether it's statements for example through the UN General Comments on how the existing rights apply and should be interpreted in relation to AI and technology more broadly. And I suspect we'll start to see courts around the world making decisions that also show how those rights should be interpreted in this new context. And we're already seeing it in something like the right.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Environmental and sustainability consequences of using chat GPT. Don't just think about it as a kind of one-off. To play with In work settings, I think be prepared to ask the questions firstly why are we using it? And can it do the job? And finally, should it do the job? I think really asking questions about every new person. The magical proposal that comes across your desk will really help to understand why you're using technology, when technology is useful, and when you really, really should be saying no.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think ask questions. You know, if you are thinking, oh, I'll just use ChatGPT to do this, think, well, why are you using ChatGPT? One of the very few cases, use cases that I've heard about where people have described positive use of ChatGPT has been where people are, for example, non-native English speakers who have to produce fairly dense technical work as part of their job in English. That really is a translation question. So I think then the question comes, well, are there ways that we can ask for AI that is more about translation rather than generating new writing? If you see what I mean. So I think ask what it is that you actually need and whether ChatGPT is the right tool. And when you're thinking that, also think about the”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Taking compliance risks by saying, well, this hasn't been tested yet, so let's give it a go and see how the law pans out, is that if it then takes five or ten years to bring a case to show that it's illegal, that you might well then be in a position where society is so dependent on it that the pendulum swings in the opposite direction. So I think it's about looking at ways to question what's happening with the existing laws and making sure that we have access to justice and properly resourced regulators who are able to take the kind of actions that challenge big companies like that. Because frankly, for individuals, it's virtually impossible. And these are questions for our societies. They're not just questions of individual human rights.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“The other side, I think, is the point that often the laws are there. It's not necessarily that you need an entire suite of new laws. It's not a legal vacuum. It's about how current laws apply to AI in many cases. And that is often a question of access to justice. It's often a question of the resources that regulators have to address these new challenges. And it's also about the risk appetite of the companies that are launching these products on a market. And one of the risks, I think, is that”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And I think there are differences between ethical concerns and legal concerns. And that's one thing about looking at these issues from a human rights perspective is that human rights law is international law. It's domestic law in most countries, including in the UK. And therefore, it may well be relevant for these products if and when they find themselves in court or if and when governments are looking at regulating them.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think there are two ways of looking at it. You know, one is that, again, it's not an all or nothing approach. So, you know, you see AI in the health sector, for example. Well, those should be treated in the same way as any other health products being put on the market and regulated accordingly. You know, you'll see, again, AI in the legal sector. Well, there's no reason why you can't think about regulation in the legal sector for AI without having to regulate an amorphous lump of AI, if you like.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“on their publications. It's very difficult yet to see how that will go. And I think how those kinds of cases pan out will very much depend on different jurisdictions. And so you'll see that copyright law and protections for artists can be very different in jurisdictions like the US, the UK, France, for example, but we may see as well around the world very different approaches. And what I think we'll start to see is that the countries which are able to legally protect and promote creativity are going to become, if you like, petri dishes or hubs for the future of human creativity. But we are, I think, going to see very different outcomes in different jurisdictions. But the key is really joining together to challenge these big, big economic models.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“individuals and some individuals who have more economic power, being able to group together with others to bring these legal challenges. But I mean, in the UK, the Financial Times has been reported as just making an agreement with OpenAI so that OpenAI can train its AI on archived material from the Financial Times. Other publishers are going the other way. places like the New York Times are suing Microsoft and OpenAI for training their models in an unauthorized way on their”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Yeah, I mean, there are numerous legal cases around the world, particularly in the US so far, challenging using copyright law in particular to say that actually your magical AI only works because it has stolen my creativity and used it to train it how to use creativity, if you like, and that it shouldn't be allowed to do that. Those cases are all very much in progress, and so it's difficult to know how they will land up. It's very much an open question. But the only real way that creatives are able to push back is when they unionize or when they gather together. And so that's what we're seeing is unions pushing back. to protect creative industries but also in”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Of human focus, but some things do actually require concentration, they do actually require time, and we're seeing it already in academic papers where you're seeing academic papers being published where it starts off with a statement to the effect that as of my latest update, which makes it very clear that the academic work is actually being done by an AI, not by real people. And therefore, it's not really worth the paper that it's written on. And the question is, how do you then get from there to go back to doing really deep, well thought out research? And can anybody even afford to do it if we're being pushed to produce a novel in a day on a GPT?”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“with real people, and we are affected by both our engagements with real people, but also increasingly our engagement online, because we're spending hours and hours of every day online. It does have an impact on our ability to think. It has a real impact on our ability to focus. And you can see that the nature of creativity is...”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think there is a danger because the question is who's going to pay for this high end art? Where is it going to come from? And how are artists going to survive to the point where they can make it? How are they going to keep going, keep learning? So I think there is a sort of collective danger. I think there is also an individual danger. And as I say, the research about GPS is really quite disturbing. literal physical changes in our brain which makes it harder for us to navigate without GPS when we become reliant on GPS. And I think you'll find the same with communication. If you're using chat GPT for every email or every human engagement that you have, if you like, how are you going to cope if ChatGPT is switched off? How are you going to remember how to engage?”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Create a real watermark and a negative watermark, if you like, in human cultural heritage. It's very difficult to see how cultural heritage will develop if creativity is not protected right now.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“On Amazon, that is not the same as being a novelist because often it's the process of creativity, the process of digging deep into the human experience and reaching out to connect with other humans is the real value in human creativity and in our cultural heritage. And I think we have a real danger at the moment that that idea of human creativity is being diminished. But human creativity is really important for societal development, for questioning the direction of our communities, of our humanity. I think if we lose that, if we lose our ability to create, to engage with the creative process, but also for people to engage with creators, that we might lose our Ability to really question or to think new thoughts. I think there's a real danger that generative AI being sold as a replacement for all sorts of forms of creativity might well”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think it's double edged, so on the one hand, I'm sure that there will be huge opportunities for creators to use technology to develop new ways of creating. And I think it's always worth bearing in mind that someone like Socrates was really down on the written word because he thought it would absolutely destroy our ability to think for ourselves. So, you know, I think we need to recognize that there are potential new avenues for creativity using technology. But what we need to be really wary of is technology being designed and sold as a way of replacing human creativity, which is what I think is happening right now. And this idea of sort of saying, well, anyone can be a novelist now with ChatGPT. Well, that's not actually true. It just means anyone can prompt rubbish being spat out of an AI and sell it.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What is the benefit actually for society in economic terms of replacing those kinds of people? And again, if you look at care work, maybe what we need to be thinking about is what care work is worth and putting that money into developing and supporting people in care work rather than putting that money into technological development, which won't necessarily benefit any of us except for the people who are developing it and selling it.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think the for profit motivation is a really big problem and it's the hard sell. And so you'll see a lot of the discourse around AI is sort of increasing productivity, increasing profitability. But what does that actually mean? And what I found as well when I was researching the book is that a lot of the areas that are being targeted for replacement, if you like, by technology are not actually areas that are currently well paid.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Funding into developing care robots is that actually while you might have these great ideas, you still need people to manage the robots and that actually managing the robots is a much less rewarding job than engaging directly with the people, whether it's, as I say, entertainment or whether it's physical care or even emotional care, an emotional connection. And you'll see robots being developed, for example, to replace therapy animals. Is there really a benefit for either the carers or the people being cared for in roboticizing animal therapy, if you like?”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“What our future with technology might mean for our humanity, because most of us at some point in our lives are going to need care. And that, I think, really helps to pull into focus this question of do you want to be cared for by a robot or do you want to be cared for by skilled people who care, even if they're employed to care, if you like, as well as family members? So I think it really raises the question of how we deal with aging populations, how we deal with the vulnerable in our societies in a way that really focuses on what that might mean for each of us in the future. And I think when you look at care robots, it's often about robots that might entertain older people. What you're seeing in places like Japan where they have put significant”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think again automating care is fundamentally it's a question about dignity. I think there are big questions about how people who need care potentially have the right to human connection, if you like, to human care. And I think that is going to be a really big question, which goes to the heart of the question of human dignity. But I think also from the carer's perspective, it really raises questions of how we as societies value the people who care for us. Value the need for this human connection because it's not just about money, it's about what it means to be human. And I think when you look at caring in particular, it really draws a focus onto what our”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Platforms for the nudification tools, if you like, was suddenly unavailable in the UK because of the prospect of regulation in this space. And I think that shows that you don't even need to have the law. The fact that the law is going to come in, that there are going to be regulations and that this is going to be a criminal offence in the UK will already put off companies being involved in that space, but also individuals. Most people do not want to be committing crimes. Most people do not want to break the law as a general principle, and so that will automatically reduce the use of these kind of platforms in the UK. by bringing in a criminal offence of that type. And as I say, even the suggestion that there will be regulation in that area with criminal law. Already has put the brakes on.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I think there will be hard red lines. I think one of the problems in talking about AI, particularly in this area, is that people tend to take an all or nothing approach. It's sort of, you know, ban AI or have AI available for absolutely anything. The reality in all spheres of life is that you do have hard red lines in law and you have blurred lines in law in different areas. And I think as we increasingly engage with AI, we're going to find out where those lines lie. I mean, one example which I think was really positive since I finished writing the book, it was about a week before the book came out. The UK government announced that it was off the back of the Online Safety Act going to criminalise non-consensual deep fake pornography. And as soon as that announcement was made, one of the main plans”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And so these sort of side effects show both a dark mirror into human nature, but also real risks about engaging with AI instead of engaging with real people.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“AI is trained, if you like the way AI develops, which is that what the companies developing these chatbots were seeing was that chatbots themselves were being abused. So on the one hand, you have people seeking relationships with chatbots in order to have a safe space. On the other hand, you saw people engaging in relationships with chatbots so that they could really let loose on their sort of violent and abusive tendencies and particularly misogynistic tendencies. And that engagement was then popping out in other areas with other people engaging with chatbots. So you see that having a chatbot relationship rather than having a relationship with someone who's got no baggage, you're having a relationship effectively with all the human baggage in the world that's ever been fed into an AI chatbot.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Into a relationship with an AI as a way in some cases of protecting themselves from abusive relationships that they'd experienced before, particularly women. What they then found was that the AI itself was starting to be abusive. And it seems that it's”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“To have a relationship with an AI chatbot, whether alongside having a relationship with a real person or instead of having relationships with real people But one of the really disturbing things about them, and I think there are several disturbing things about that. The first one for me is what does that mean for community? What does it mean for human connection if you can just instead of bothering to deal with the messiness of real people, you can have a relationship with your ideal or your idea of an ideal person without having to engage? How disappointed are you going to be when you do talk to real people with their own personalities and their own lives and their own approaches to things? But one of the really dark aspects, I think, of these AI chatbots that have developed particularly in the relationship field is that users started to see sort of negative and abusive language coming out of the chatbots. So while people had sort of gone in.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, one of the big areas that I looked at, so one of the chapters is called Sex Robots, but when I actually started looking into it, it became very clear that it's not the kind of sex robots of science fiction fantasy that you might imagine. It's very much about chatbots, if you like. It's about our engagement with technology. And it's maybe also about the human desire for connection and the sexual drive in humans, which means that we see that chatbots, rather than just being a practical personal assistant, have developed particularly in the sphere of relationships. And I have to say, when I started looking into it and the kind of companies who were offering bots as relationship alternatives, I was amazed to find that millions of people worldwide have signed up.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“a fantastic life live happily ever after and she was even able to produce babies for him. So it's really this sort of building on this mythical idea of how you can have the ideal woman without actually having to deal with women at all and how we see that very much in AI and even in the personal assistance, things like Siri and Alexa, it's about what's the ideal woman so we don't actually have to deal with women in real life.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“And you'll see it as well in sort of, I think, actually since I wrote the book, there's been an AI beauty pageant looking at what are the most beautiful AI women available on Instagram. And it's this sort of question, again, of instead of looking at real people saying, well, what is the idealized nature of a person that we could have instead of dealing with real people? And this effect, this pygmalian effect, particularly affects women and the use of pygmalian is really a reference to Greek mythology and a king who really couldn't engage at all with women. He found women to be repugnant. And so what happened was that the gods breathed life into a marble statue, that he was then able to fall in love with and have”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“Well, the question of the Pygmalian effect is something that's been highlighted by other researchers, particularly Olivia Gest and colleagues of hers, who looked at how the way we are sold AI is often in a female form. It's used in a sense to replace women. It's almost as if women are too complicated to deal with and that we can then create this perfect form through AI of what it means to be a woman. And so I was looking at examples like Sophia the Robot, who you might have seen on videos being presented as this ideal woman who's going to be the future of humanity and of technology. But it's really a question of sort of replacement of imagining an ideal woman and how that could improve our world.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“That was really what inspired me to write the book what does it mean to be human and how do we secure what it means to be human in our future with AI, whatever form that takes.”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT
“I mean, my background is obviously the human rights lawyer. So, what it means to be human and how that sort of develops in our societies has been the kind of core element of my career. And also as a writer, I think as a writer, you are always thinking about the human condition and thinking about how you reach out to other human beings. And so I suppose early last year when ChatGPT really took off and you were seeing AI everywhere in the media on social media, it struck me that actually people were lost in that discourse and that the real importance of AI, whether negative or positive is about what it means for us as human beings, what it means for our lives as individuals and also as societies. And so that”
2024-05-10 · Intelligence Squared · Being Human in an AI World, with Susie Alegre · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT