YouSaid · the spoken record

Toby Nangle

lines on the record: 41
first: 2022-10-06
most recent: 2022-10-06
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“Because What was revealed during this whole debacle was that actually, if you push up long dated yields by 100 basis points, you can throw some of these structures into Unwind. And so I think schemes are trying to manically make sure they're in a situation whereby once the Bank of England intervention ends, that that's not going to be possible anymore. So that's going to be very interesting to watch.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I'm kind of on the pension fund side. I'm sort of thinking that a bunch of pension funds will unfortunately have lost their hedges. And so will they be coming back into the market to actually buy long-dated bonds in order to, you know, which could cause a real rally from here at the long end? Some people I speak to in the market on the investment consulting side and hedge fund side, they're sort of thinking, right, is there going to be some kind of stop loss safari that goes on?”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, if people talk about losing control of the long end, it's not something that the Bank of England would typically want to have any control of at all. They'd want market expectations to shape that. But getting into a Doom loop is going to be something which will cause. Systemic problems potentially. And so as the lender of last resort or market maker of last resort, you need to step in”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“When we're talking about pension funds, but Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think you sum it up brilliantly. You're a fantastic communicator. I would just caveat that a little bit just in spirit of geekiness in that for pension funds, the long end is the risk-free asset simply because that's where the liabilities sit. So on an unlevered basis, having a load more if there was enough duration would be a great thing for them. I mean, they would be able to close a funding ratio if that's it. But because that market structure doesn't really facilitate that to happen, then yeah, that's going to be a problem.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So after a few years, it'll kind of be a very modest thing, be more on a discrete scenario side, but this now exists on everyone sort of blotter and is going to inform decisions whether people think about that consciously or whether it's just underneath.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Has a bit of a meltdown as one of those sort of stress tests. And you'll need to make your portfolio survive, that stress test from now on. If you have portfolio risk that you're looking at within your portfolio risk system, your portfolio might look a little bit riskier than it did because simply that historical data is feeding it. And so if you've got a risk budget that you're working to, you might need to take a little bit less portfolio risk. I mean, it just kind of goes into the plumbing of risk systems on bank trading desks and portfolio managers and it'll fall out eventually. These things tend to be like exponentially weighted.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And what they might well go through that and maybe that's even sensible, but from a risk manager's perspective that's using, I mean, all risk models pretty much are fed with historical data of some description. And this is now in the history. So every stress test that the asset managers or investment banks use, which are kind of different scenario stress tests, you'll have one which will be UK.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, right. So there's this huge kind of efficiency versus resilience sort of battle, right? And one of the things that the UK government was keen to do was to reform Solvency 2, which is a bunch of insurance regulations, so that they would need to have.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Horrified to find that public services which are falling apart are going to be impacted as a way to kind of pay for some of the other unfunded tax cuts. And then that sort of chef's kiss of tax cuts for the very richest has been removed and that's very stylistic.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the big important U turn is on style, but there is also a substance U-turn. For your listeners who are not in the UK realm, there was this idea of scrapping the top rate of income tax, which is 45% on over £150,000. So you don't need the top rate would be somewhat lower than that. That was only going to cost £2 billion a year. I say only £2 billion a year, but there we go. It was a small part of that 45 billion package. But today, they also said, right, well, we're going to freeze various other budgets, and that will deliver 18 billion pounds of savings. So put those two together. That's actually some substance there as well. The market was looking for around about 30 billion unfunded tax cuts, and that would be using up all the fiscal room from the previous OBR financial projection. And so it was a 35 up to 45. That was the element of surprise. And so the substance has been, you know, fully unwound, in a way, which I think a lot of people here will be.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“You have a bigger move than you had on Friday, you know, that even bigger move in 35 years, the style is really important. There's this kind of feel to markets, which I think it's like putting a slide rule and saying you do this measure, you get this number of basis points rise. The style is so important as well. And that's why I think that today in coming out and doing a major U-turn after Everyone's saying they weren't going to do it. I mean, the Prime Minister was on national TV yesterday saying we're absolutely not going to U-turn. This is absolutely what we're going to do. And then they're in the middle of their annual party conference right now to come out and Utah. I mean, that's a big kind of like, okay, the style's over. We're changing now.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It has to look at budgets, it has to kind of put forecasts out. And it's like he didn't want his homework marked by them, right? So all of these sort of stylistic things come through. And then you make a sort of a big sort of shocking announcement, which is way bigger than anyone was expecting. And the guild market seemed to have a bit of a meltdown straight away as the Bank of England was already hiking rates. And as you said at the start of the episode, rates around the world were already rising. And then over the weekend, you know, so Friday, the 23rd, that was the biggest move in yields in 35 years. A huge move. And then, so over the weekend, Quasi Kwatang's interviewed and he doubles down. He's like, oh, we've got new unfunded tax cuts to add to this. And he's jocular about it. So Monday.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“On the first day in the role, quasi quatang sacked Tom Scholar, who was the most senior respected official in the treasury, from their perspective he'd be proud of the establishment. Quasi Kwani announces that it will be a fiscal event and it wouldn't be a budget because, you know, the OBR, the Office of Budget Responsibility, our version of the CBO.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, I mean, I was watching the announcement with a bunch of fellow geeks in a WhatsApp group. And we were looking at it and going, oh my God, oh, wow, as he was sort of announcing these things. But if you'd have asked me before, you know, if I'd have been that guy who was pulled into number 11 saying, so here's what we're going to do. I go, oh, wow, that's really, that's a bit of a shocker. If I was asked like, what do you think the market's going to do? I wouldn't have said what it did. Yeah, right. And so, I mean, I think that you can explain what happened by two things. And this is kind of like, you know, it was partly the substance. I think that's definitely part of it. But it was also the style. So, you know, I mean, the new prime minister, Liz Tras and her chancellor Kwasi Kwatang, came to power and queen immediately died. And so nothing happened at all, but they wanted to do stuff before Parliament sort of went into recess. Now, they're pretty iconoclastic in their style. During the whole leadership...”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, yeah, I mean, I've had this conversation about why isn't there more duration in the UK market with various degrees of success, me trying to find the answer for the past 25 years? I've spoken to past heads of management office, UK government, different corporate treasurers. Where I've sort of got to on this is that actually, yeah, I would agree with the UK government that the UK government issues way longer than any other government. So the term structure of guilt is just hugely longer than any other G7 government in the world. Or in fact, I think any government in the world. And that's partly trying to satisfy.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“But one of the things which I'm seeing in the mainstream, well, all across the mainstream press in the UK is that leverage has been used to juice returns, to pump up returns. And that's not really what's going on here. What's really going on here is that there isn't enough UK fixed income duration. And it doesn't seem necessarily unreasonable to think about a recovery strategy for UK pension scheme, which uses synthetic duration to help you get there. What's been, I think, the lesson that will be taken away from here is that you need to have way larger cushions in place, sort of basis points to exhaustion, if you like, on your derivative platform in order to know with confidence you're going to be able to implement it properly, or you're going to have to have a much more liquid portfolio, which flies in the face of everything the government's been trying to do over the past few years to try and incentivize pension schemes to invest in infrastructure or property or venture capital or all the sort of things that might help the country's growth profile. That's kind of like going to reverse now.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I don't think that they are particularly endemic. I mean, beyond the largest portion of the UK asset management industry, which is a liability-driven investment side. But I think it's really, really important because I realize you said at the beginning you can get really geeky. That's okay. And I have done because I'm part of your audience. I listen to your podcast. I love it. And I think lots of super geeky people do. No offense to the rest of the audience. No, geeks, you know.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of duration in sterling denominated instruments and comparing it to the duration of defined benefit pension schemes. Like if they all wanted to just allocate to bonds, could they? No is the answer. There simply isn't enough UK, or at least there wasn't enough UK duration for them to do that. They would have to take basis risk. They would have to go out and think of other strategies, use derivatives in order to try to get towards that kind of locked funding ratio.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, yeah, I used to be global head of asset allocation at Columbia Thread Needle, which is a large investment firm. My team managed, what about $160 billion across teams in four time zones? The UK, frankly, is a fairly small part of that global area. But I had quite a lot of contact because a fund I managed. I mean, it served as a growth fund for pension funds that were looking at liability driven investment, that sort of thing. So I had conversations with pension fund trustees and consultants over the past sort of 10, 15 years to understand the kind of aims and ambitions that they have and how they're trying to implement these things. And in terms of the guilt market more generally, the guilt market is, I mean, the UK defined benefit pension system is just very large compared to the amount of fixed income out there. I read a piece a few years ago, which I haven't revisited, which was looking at the amount.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, I saw Australian RMBS go on bid in private credit. Yeah, absolutely. So, these are the kind of magnitudes of numbers. Now, the vast majority of them will have come through this and feel, wow, our strategy survived. You know, we didn't get into forced deleveraging. This is fantastic. And they'll feel really great about that. And I think that's good. But then they'll look at their asset allocation. And they just go, whose asset allocation of this? This doesn't look like my asset allocation because it was all pulled so out of kilter by the changes that have occurred, not in the market values of the additional things, but rather the bond portion has shifted around. The portion allocated to a liquids will be much higher than they'd probably had in their policy. And so there'll be this process of how do you get back to where you thought you were. And that's going to be kind of the order of business for the next few months, I think.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Concern about LDI. And he told me, listen, one of my clients had £1.5 billion of excess collateral when guilt yields were down at the lows during the pandemic. They've now got zero and they need to get another billion pound collateral call to come through. So they're selling things. That was in June, right? That was the effect of what had happened through then. So you had, let's say that 25, which was Gilts, you might have only needed 10 to put in that pot for collateral. And that then 15 could have been excess collateral. Then as yields rise, so your excess collateral shrinks down. And then you need to replenish it. You need to rebalance. And these things can happen. They can cause a little bit of strains on the system, but they can happen over months, but they can't happen over 48 hours.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So I don't think that there was, I mean, I could be wrong, so I'm going to caveat that, but I don't think that there was a problem about getting liquidity for your guilt. I don't think that people were wondering, you know, how do I get finance for this? It's more that owing to the structure of their leverage, the value of their guilt had reduced such that they just didn't have enough collateral. I mean, consultants will be talking, you know, I was speaking to a CIO of an investment consultant for a piece I read in July setting up this whole.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Some of these pension funds were being cleared out of their hedges, whether through their choice or through their managers' choices up when long dated yields were above 5%. And so if you think of that fund that's feeling really great because its assets have fallen by 20% year to date, but its liabilities are down 25% year to date. And you have like the assets and liabilities going up and down in this roller coaster together. Well, the assets just fell out when the game unledged. And the liabilities rose back up hugely after the Bank of England intervention. And so that windfall gain, which might have come from rising yields because they're a little bit on the hedged, I don't know the impact like systemically, and I don't think anyone knows the impact systemically yet as to what the hits being for them. Hopefully it's small. I think in a macroeconomic terms it will be small, but it'll be hugely painful.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“QT in any way. And, you know, I think actually it was, they executed it and the results were probably way beyond their expectations. And then the second question was about what was the impact on pension funds. Well,”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yeah, that's right. So the Bank of England, they saw that this doomt was in place and that you don't know where that's going to lead, right? That could undermine the entire financial system. So they intervened with an announcement that they would do daily auctions of up to £5 billion each in long-dated securities. And they did their first auction. And I think it was like just over a billion was offered. But the announcement just collapsed long yields by 100 basis points. I mean, a huge move. I mean, if you've got 25-year duration in this stuff, that's a 25% price jump just on the announcement, which is just phenomenal. So that's what they're technically doing. Is that QE? I think that technically you could talk about it as balance sheet enlargement, but I think it can only be understood as a lender of last resort, or rather market maker of last resort function that it's stepping in to do, it's protecting the financial system. It's not trying to...”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“That's absolutely right, Joe, and moreover the only route for liquidity for some of these was actually selling long dated guilts or unwinding long dated swaps, which kind of then boils down to like, you know, the Bank of England, when they intervened, they weren't doing it to bail out pension schemes. It might actually, I think actually genuinely it will have disadvantaged large numbers of pension schemes materially by their actions.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Then they're unable to do anything about it. And so their hedge just starts to fall away, even if the whole structure within those pool funds is maintained. But the asset manager sometimes might even kind of go, do you know what? Like, you know, we're not going to get recapitalization for most of these. We might just decide to delever them ourselves. And that's what you saw, I think one of the announcements over the weekend come out from a large asset manager. Man.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, if you as a pension scheme with your £100, you've got liquidity to make sure that you can put in more collateral if you need to because your funding ratio is improving. This is great. And so you all set up fantastically. But maybe some of those other schemes, they don't have liquidity. Maybe they're invested in private credit or infrastructure or other long-term types of things which don't have great liquidity. Now, if the asset manager says, okay, you know, we've got to recapitalize.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So that's one route. The second route is something which I think a lot more schemes have had problems with, which is they're not big enough to have ISDS in place with their counterparties and then having like swaps going place. So what they do is they go to an asset manager that has a solutions arm and the asset manager says, you know, I'll tell you what, we'll take 100 pounds and we'll put 75 pounds in this growth portfolio and we'll put 25 pounds in this pooled leverage matching fund, which has all the leverage within it and has nothing outside that, along with like a hundred other pension schemes.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when guilt prices fall a lot very quickly, that's going to make the collateral worth less. Also, the P&L on the derivative overlay will be sharply into negative. So you're going to have to put up more collateral and the collateral is worth less. And so that's going to be a problem. There's going to be liquidity situation there. It's not a funding solvency or funding ratio issue, but there's a liquidity problem there.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, it's the second one, but also, importantly, and a thing which I haven't said yet far, it's quite important, is that they tend to actually be under hedged. The rising yields actually help their funding ratios. So that kind of hypothetical scheme at the beginning of the year, which had 100 assets and 100 liabilities, now has 75 liabilities, it might actually have like 80 assets rather than 75. And so it's actually in a much, much better funding ratio than it was before. There's this big windful gain that's come through, even though the assets have fallen, right? It's winning, if you like. So from the optics, the optics are good, but then there can be the mechanics. And like really annoyingly, there are kind of three different ways, at least, which they kind of implement. But let's just focus on two Macs. So one of which is that they implement directly. So they have that matching pool of assets like Gilts, and then the growth pool with like a swap overlay or repo on the matching assets. Now they've effectively got geared long data guilts.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely. I mean, we think of pensions as investors, but what they're really trying to do is they're trying to solve their problem. And their problem is that they don't want to leave their beneficiaries with an unsecure outcome, right? So that means that they don't go around going, oh, how do I juice a little bit more out of this or that? They're thinking, how can I get my funding ratio into a better place? And if they got their funding ratio in a great place, then they don't really care what yield to doing. So this is like, you know, it's fine. LDI works fine in low yield environment. It works fine in high yield environment. It doesn't work fine if you move from a low yielding environment to a high-yielding environment super, super quickly. And maybe we should have a look at the mechanics of that.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Now, your assets, they would have maybe fallen a bit because growth hasn't been fantastic, but also on the liability side, those guilts have been worth less. And then the swap overlay is worthless. So what mathematically will have been happening during the year is that pretty much every month they'll probably be rebalancing so that they get back to being fully hedged and they don't have any kind of crazy stuff going on.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Okay, okay, yeah. So if you have a pension fund, it's got assets, which will be financial securities and other stuff, and it will be have liabilities. So let's say at the beginning of the year you're a pension fund and your assets are 100 and your liabilities 100. Long dated bond yields rise a lot. Let's say they rise 100 basis points and your liability got duration 25. So now your liabilities are only 75 in present value terms.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Of it. Now, what's this got to do with derivatives? And last week, right? Well, pretty much almost every pension fund couldn't quite afford to match their assets and the liabilities. So what they do instead is they have a growth portfolio, which is kind of low volatility. This should be cash over time. And then they've got a matching portfolio, and that might be long data guilts. Now, the liabilities look a lot like long data guilts insofar as a long dated about 25-year duration instruments, right? But they might only have like 25% in the matching assets and 75% in low volatility growth assets. So what they do is they put an overlay over the rest of it using swaps or doing kind of repo on that matching portfolio to generate leverage. And the leverage varies a lot, but like, you know, it would be up to sort of four, 4.2 times for the larger schemes.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Long series of zeros, right? I mean, as in long zero coupon bonds. So we should probably value them like long zeros. So we get a bunch of actuaries to work these things out and then discount them back using bond yields. So suddenly, you know, you had financial statements that were full of fluctuating pension fund mismatches of assets and liabilities. And at the same time, you had this regulatory pressure to say, you know, you probably don't want to have your pension fund hugely underfunded. You can invest in anything you want, but if you've got a big funding deficit, then you've got to present a recovery plan, which might mean over that period you can pay no dividends, you can't do ME M&A, we might say you can't change people on your board, all kinds of things that firms don't want to do. And so firms go, well, how do we deal with this? And number one, they kind of shut down their pension schemes for new entrants. And number two, they look to better match the assets and the liabilities, their liabilities looking bond-like. So this is kind of like the deep history.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“He ran a media empire, the mirror group, and before he fell off his yacht and drowned near the Canary Islands, he'd fraudulently taken hundreds of millions of pounds from the Mirror Group pension scheme, leaving those pensioners basically without a pension. So it was a huge scandal, cause of bankruptcy of that media empire and a big bailout of the mirror pension scheme. So then you kind of bring in this minimum funding requirement for UK pensions. At the same time, accountancy standards are changing. You have this thing called FRS-17, which goes on FRS 102 in the UK or International Accounting Standard, IAS-19 for Global, which kind of says, do you know what? A pension is sort of like a deferred piece of payment for an employee.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the UK market, asset management market, the biggest segment by far is something that's called liability driven investment or LDI. And to understand that you need to kind of rewind probably about 25 years. There were these moves in the wake of this guy called Robert Maxwell, who's probably best known today in the North American audience for being Gelaine Maxwell's father.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, it's Of rising bond yields around the world driven really by the Fed, but also what's going on in the ECB and what's anticipated to happen. I mean, liquidity hasn't been amazingly good, but. That I heard that was Or anything like that.”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“goodness yeah i mean for the guilt market there's nothing like that in my career and i was looking back using bank of england data and you can't really find something like it for the part well since 1978 on the daily data that that they have there to have uh the short guilt market completely repriced a bank of england rate path and the way it did and then also the long end kind of go from this big bare flattening into this huge bear steepening as you had liquidation trades and a run dynamic unfold with the bank of england then having to intervene to start buying bonds when it's trying to do cut i mean if there's nothing like it's”
2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
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2022-10-06 · Odd Lots · Toby Nangle on What We Just Learned From Gilt Market Madness · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source