YouSaid · the spoken record

Tony Klug

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46
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2023-11-24
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2023-11-24
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  1. “My understanding is that history is no longer compulsory at GCSE level. So it's not just they don't know Middle East history. I don't think they know our own history either. And I think that's very dangerous because the causes and the answers to current problems often lie in the history. But you can't contrive that. I think if you wanted to be serious, you would have, let's say, just to wrap up the things that you were saying, an initiative spearheaded from the region, supported by the US and Western governments based on the Arab Peace Initiative possibly revised, looking towards a possible confederation, including Jordan as well as Israel and Palestine. And you would need to employ a panel of experts who know the history, who can advise on it. You can't educate the whole world. And in a way, it doesn't really matter. But you need to target that and focus it where it does matter. And the time to act is now.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. “Well, again, you have to think in terms of you're now talking about a peace situation, not a war situation, so there's no problem with contiguity. Everyone who's living there will be either a Palestinian citizen or a Palestinian resident. All the barriers and checkpoints and so on will have been taken down. There will be joint security, because that will still be an issue for both parties. And as far as Gaza is concerned, quite a lot of work was done on this during the Oslo period possibilities of a dedicated road, a large bridge, a tunnel. You can be creative about these things once you move into a new momentum.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. “Well, they will be where the people want them. They will be in Jerusalem. I mean, it either be a shared capital, or one will be in East Jerusalem, one in West Jerusalem. But you have to cast your mind into a different mold because anything you think about security or whatever it may be, in a presumptive war situation is a different animal from a presumptive peace situation. So if you're talking now about achieving peace and the whole momentum of it, it won't be a problem dividing Jerusalem not physically because there's no support for that, but politically. And it's not that complicated. You know, I mean, Hendon and Finchley, well, that's probably very, very long ago, Islington and Camden. You know, they have borders, they have boundaries, but you don't notice them. There are different administrations. Something along those lines. And there are some groups that have done a huge amount of work on this. Israeli groups and Palestinian groups and joint Israeli and Palestinian groups. If they got the green light tomorrow,”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. “Focus on solving the conflict, they would use the conflict to combat Iran, to undermine the Soviet Union, to defeat terrorism. It was polluted if they just concentrated on solving the conflict. I think it could have been solved. Now the initiative must come from the region.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. “Well, I think this has become a regional problem and the initiative should now come from the region, especially the countries, the governments, which are part of what's called the Abraham Accords. This is quite different from, say, five years ago, seven or eight years ago, where Israel only had diplomatic relations with Jordan and Egypt. It's now UAE, Bahrain, Morocco. There are relations with Qatar at a lower level. There's a lot of influence over Hamas. There were potential relations with the Saudis and there are relations. Those, I think, are the countries that should now be spearheading a robust and swift initiative, not the Americans, positively not the Americans, because they've screwed up on every single occasion. And British policy, and I know this because I spoke to government ministers many years ago, like Roy Hattersley and David Eynolds, who said our policy is to follow the Americans. So there was no independent policy. And the Americans put a lot of effort into it, but they never found it.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  6. “Used to call him his peace partner, he's quite open about that. And he went round to Rabin's house and he had dinner there with him and his wife on more than one occasion. And if anything became quite butter, you might remember the first handshaken in the White House where Rabin was very, very hesitant about taking Arafat's hand, but a relationship developed after that and they really became personally quite close as well as politically.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. “It's very weak, it's very old, and it doesn't have the support of its people. So even if you were to do a deal with them, which the Israeli government, the current Israeli government, would never do, they can't deliver. I mean, I think Israel really missed the boat there with not dealing with Arafat. Arafat, for all his faults, had the following. He could have done the deal and he could have delivered on the deal. I saw him shortly after Rabin had been assassinated, part of a small delegation. He was completely lost, quite open about it. What do I do now? I have no idea what to do now. I've lost my peace partner. I don't know where we're going.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. “Was huge euphoria at first when the Oslo Accords were agreed and published. I remember giving a speech somewhere saying, well, it looks like the conflict is over. And that wasn't a question of optimism. I mean, it did look as if that was the direction it was going. When the assassination took place, when his deputy Shimon Perez took over and then got defeated in the next election by the right wing, I think we all went into cold storage. There have been many Palestinian-Israeli and Palestinian Jewish dialogue groups operating at that time. They all closed down the moment Netanyahu got into office. The Palestinians in particular realized that this meant the end of the peace process.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  9. “Middle East comes back and it pinches you on the bottom whether you like it or not. The only way you can get away from it is to resolve the conflict.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  10. “Happened in the other cases is that they were resolved primarily by the people concerned, together with some outside assistance and where necessary pressure. You got close to that in the Israel-Palestine situation, especially with the Oslo courts. But when they failed, and that was partly because the government changed, the assassination of Rabin, I mean, people say assassinations don't change history, my God, this really did. We don't know where Rabin would have ended up. But all the noises were that he was on a journey and he may well have ended up supporting an authentic two-state solution. Once that failed internally, I think it was up to the outside world to then bring the necessary pressure. Because if they had any foresight, they would have foreseen what's been happening recently. The Americans say we reorienting to the Asia-Pacific. They don't seem to understand, they don't have that choice.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. “Is the current reality, and this is part of the reason why Israel wants to destroy Hamas entirely, but it's something that they won't achieve.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. “Well, it's more or less a mirror image, but it should be entirely an Islamic state in which Jews can remain and have some minority rights, cultural, linguistic, maybe religious, but certainly not national rights, because this is an Islamic state”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. “Don't care. I have my objective. That's what I believe in, whether it's for strong nationalist reasons or historical reasons or religious reasons, and the rest of the world can go to hell. And it's up to the rest of the world to respond to say, well, we're not prepared to go to hell. And these are the terms.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. “Well, I hope I'm never able to get into their minds and think what they're thinking. But what I believe to be the case is they, first of all, want the whole of the West Bank to be annexed to Israel, become part of Israel, and to make it difficult for the Palestinians to stay. It doesn't necessarily mean an explicit expulsion, but it's happening now. It's taking over their homes. It's making it difficult for them to live there.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. “Did once a talk he gave at Barilan University in Israel. I don't know how many people believed him. I mean, I certainly didn't believe him. It was completely inconsistent with his ideology and everything he stood for, but he was trying to ingratiate himself to the Americans.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  16. “not just not consistent it's designed deliberately to be in conflict with the creation of a Palestinian state it is absolutely the policy of the current Israeli government a far right Israeli government to prevent a Palestinian state and for Israel to take possession of the entire territory”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  17. “I think that could be an offer by the Palestinian government. You're welcome to stay, not as colonial outpost armed settlers, but as citizens or just residents of our new Palestinian state. Help us to build it up. We need you. We want you. That would be a wonderful gesture on the Palestinian side. But it's not the only way of doing it.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  18. “Well, I think there are ways to resolve that. I mean, first of all, I don't think when you're talking about two states, you need to talk about we're here and they're there, as I think former Prime Minister put it. You can take Czechoslovakia as your model. Now, Czechoslovakia was one unitary democratic secular state, but at least the Slovaks wanted to have their own self-determination. So they unilaterally withdraw, it was agreed. But it wasn't done violently. They didn't kick out the Czech communities from Slovakia or vice versa. If you take that as your model, you could have the two states, Israel and Palestine, next to each other, collaborating. No one gets to move. And you created on that basis.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  19. “Well, the West did, I mean, to give them credit, be very clear in saying that it's illegal to transfer your own population into occupied territory under the Geneva Convention. That's very clear. It's also very unhelpful to a settlement of the conflict. But they only spoke the words. They didn't back it up with any sort of effective enforcement mechanism. That's what they should have been doing. Laying down the law, you cannot do that. And if you do do that, there will be repercussions. They shied away from that.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  20. “No solution can work which doesn't command Sufficient support from the people who are actually involved in it. Any solution which doesn't, so the one unitary state, for example, recent opinion polls in October showed among the Palestinians less than 10% support for that. Because it means they won't have their own national self-determination, or they'll be stuck in with this more powerful, more wealthy Israeli society. Feasibility is, so the two-state solution is the one I think is the only plausible solution. The question is whether it is still feasible. And that's where the settlements come in, because they're taking out more and more of the space of the Palestinian state. So there are enough people saying, look, that's over now. But I don't think that's right. I think you can only go for the only plausible solution because you don't have an alternative. So you have to make what appears to be non-feasible feasible. And there are ways, in my opinion, that you can overcome that problem given...”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  21. “Well, it depends where you're talking about. If you're talking about a country like this or you're talking about the Israelis and the Palestinians themselves, now I make a distinction between plausibility and feasibility. And then you could add viability.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  22. “They think it's past its sell by I think partly because they don't like it because they rather like this secular democratic, liberal, Western type of notion and think that the whole world should comply with it.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. “And that's what my approach, my pamphlet was about just writing the histories entirely from the inside subjectively with all the emotions and the passions left in.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. “Still be dominated by this, and at this point, of course, it will see me out. All I'm saying is that there is only one way of resolving this conflict, and it has to be mutual recognition and mutual self-determination. If it doesn't happen, we're looking at eternal conflict. And this is what I've been worried about for a long time. You've had two mantras going on over the years. One says the two-state solution is dead. And the other says there is no alternative to the two-state solution. And my fear over the years has been that they're both right. But there is no alternative, but it is dead. There are a lot of people who feel, as I do, that unless you allow both people to exercise their self-determination, no solution will work and be sustainable, even if you try to impose it from the West very often. But, you know, that's the sort of neocolonial mindset still, that you're trying to impose your own views on other people. You have to see it from the inside.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  25. “Well, I don't know how hopeful I am. When I wrote this pamphlet, which was in the early 1970s, advocating a two-state outcome, I fully expected it to be implemented by the mid-1970s. And then I would get on and do something else with my life, become an England international or something like that. I did not expect my life 50 plus years later.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. “I wasn't brand new to the top. Back when my term of office ended to do my PhD on these radio occupation of the West Bank. And my supervisor said to me when we agreed that I would write the introductory chapter as a brief history of the conflict, just make sure you're being objective and neutral and impartial and don't be swayed by the passions or the emotions. Just stick to the facts. And I set off to do that and I did far more extensive research and talking to people and reading. And I found I couldn't get one fact to sit still long enough to get it down on paper. Then came the eureka moment when I realized what I was trying to do was impossible. There wasn't one history. There were two histories, two distinct peoples. Each had its own history and they coincided on the same piece of territory at the same period of time.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. “Well, essentially, it's about two peoples who have a pretty lousy history, a chronicle of suffering, who aspired to their own states in what they consider to be their own land. And it's fundamentally a conflict over land. You'll get different views from partisans on each side, but that's fundamentally it's a territorial question. Therefore, has to be solved territorially. I think it's still possible, but the longer it goes on, the more difficult it is.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. “I think a big problem is that this conflict has gone on for far too long. It's outlived the century which created it. Now, you had other conflicts, you had the Northern Ireland conflict, you had the apartheid in South Africa, you had the whole of communism in Eastern Europe. All products of the 20th century all resolved before the end of the 20th century. And this one looked online to be resolved. In fact, you had delegations come over from South Africa and Northern Ireland join the Oslo years of the 1990s to see how they were handling their progress towards what appeared to be a solution. And it didn't happen. And it wandered into the 21st century and it's now lost. And people don't have the memory, the history, the experience to know how to handle it. Even the top leaders don't. So many people have said to me recently, what is this conflict all about? I thought it was about to be solved. Or I thought it could just be managed or contained.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. “They would be worried, of course, about being sidelined and their policy is still the eradication of Israel, although in their 2017 revision of the original Hamas Charter, they did apparently concede a readiness to recognize a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza. But the establishment of, I mean, Saudi obviously is the most powerful country in the region. And so they might have felt that they would lose the plot altogether of the Saudis established relations with Israel.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  30. “You can deduce that strategy. It's difficult to deduce any other strategy other than maybe a total frustration and a prison breakout sort of thing without consideration of the consequences, which have been absolutely dire. And equally with Israel's strategy, again, if you judge from its actions, not only would you say, well, their strategy was to collaborate in this endeavor, but to also thoroughly alienate world opinion and continue on its march towards becoming a pariah state, so contrary to its founding purpose and principles. And the primary victim, of course, of all these quasi-strategies, as often, are the ordinary people.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  31. “In the current circumstances. And if you judge from their actions, for how much you might think that their strategy is one of self-destruction. And in the almost certain knowledge that Israel would respond ferociously to their attack, to bring death and destruction on the people of Gaza too.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  32. “I mean, you're not the only one who's finding it hard to fathom the strategy. In fact, I would go further and question whether Hamas or Israel has a strategy or an endgame at all.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  33. “Well, the first one was the Sedat Initiative, and the endgame was that Israel withdraws completely from the whole of the Sinai Desert that they captured in 1967 in exchange for Egypt recognizing Israel and establishing full diplomatic relations and peace, the 1988 decision by the PLO was that they would recognize Israel and recognize, in fact, its right to exist in peace and security. They went further than I had ever expected them to go in exchange for Israel agreeing to a state on the West Bank and Gaza with its capital in East Jerusalem. And the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002 was an offer to Israel for full diplomatic relations and recognition by the entire Arab world in exchange for Palestinian statehood. So all these three, you had the endgame and then they wanted to discuss the logistics.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  34. “Well, I think there were two levels. One is how they negotiate. The Israeli system of negotiating is very much the Western type model where you put forward your proposal less than you're prepared to accept. The other side puts something a bit higher and you barter and you reach an agreement, but with no necessarily any notion of the endgame. Well, if you look at all the Arab peace initiatives, that is to say the Sadut initiative, the PLO decision in 1988 to recognize Israel and have a state next to it. And then the Arab Peace Initiative of 2002. These were all started with the endgame and then they work back. So you begin with the end game and then the negotiations were about the logistics, how you implement it, the timing and so on.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  35. “I think the way to bring them together is for each party to exercise itself determination and then to create, I think it would happen naturally, a number of horizontal connections between the two sides, political parties, trade unions, sporting activities, cultural activities, and so on and so forth. It's normal and natural. And that may evolve into some sort of confederation between Israel and Palestine, except that I would say that it couldn't work unless it included Jordan as well.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. “Because both peoples aspire to self determination in their own state. If they didn't do that, then I think the one state, democratic secular model would be worth considering.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. “It's not elsewhere in the world. It's very much a Western notion. And in fact, that is the problem with the whole proposal. It comes largely from well-meaning Western liberals or leftists who want to create their own image out in other regions. And they can't just replicate that. You can't just impose your own preferences and systems and structures on other parts of the world. We, the British and Europeans more generally, the Americans as well, have been doing that for centuries. And it's created mayhem around the world.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. “I think within each state, there has to be equality under the law and full equality. The question is whether that's done in one state or two states. There's nothing magical about the number of states. It could be three states or four states.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  39. “Well, it would be a sort of federated state where the two parties, the two peoples, would be able to exercise their own national self-determination within their own chambers, within the context of one state. The problem with the one secular democratic state is it atomizes everyone down to the level of the individual. So there are no collective rights acknowledged. And that's not acceptable to either Israelis or Palestinians.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  40. “So that's one alternative, but bear in mind that when people talk about a one state solution, they have lots of different ideas in mind. If you ask Hamas, they support a one-state solution, an Islamic state. Ask the far right in Israel, it's a Jewish state. Ask the PLO out of their charter, it's an Arab state. It could be a binational state.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  41. “Well, they would say that you should have a state with total equality, full democracy, in which everyone is treated equally. And I agree with all that. I mean, if you ask me theoretically, what sort of state I like, I like democratic secular states. I sort of live in one with all its flaws.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  42. “Okay, so to be clear, first of all, it's not a question of what I want, because what I want is to see this conflict resolved. I have many friends and colleagues over many years among both Palestinians and Israelis, and that's my aim. Therefore, what I favor is the proposal which is capable of achieving that. It is two states, but if it were one state, then I would go for that.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  43. “Any solution has to satisfy the minimum core aspirations of the two peoples and allay their maximum fears. So if there is another solution which is capable of doing that, then I would support it. But I'm not aware of any others and I don't see the others and therefore I think recently one or two people who have been strongly critical of two states in the last few years and ridiculed it have come back on board and are now calling for its urgent implementation.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  44. “Well, the ultimate solution has always been the one that for the last 50 plus years I've been advocating. I mean, it wasn't done by caprice. It was done by really knowing Israelis and Palestinians very well and getting inside their hearts and souls and minds and trying to identify what their absolute basic minimum core aspirations were. And in both cases, the conclusion was self-determination in a state of their own within the country that each claimed as its own.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  45. “Think it's so much the rest of the world because really the rest of the world had little to do with all four events that I just mentioned. They were actually prompted from inside. I don't think that's going to happen on this occasion because I think the two parties, I don't think they really know what they're doing. They don't have any clear strategies. It urgently needs outside intervention on this occasion”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  46. “Let me just tell you what I mean by every peaceable advance has followed a seismic event. I mean from 1967 onwards. If you start with the 67 war, that generated a movement among the Palestinians which ended with them supporting a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza alongside Israel instead of in place of Israel, which had been their previous position. The 1973 Egypt Israel war ended up in 1999 with the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty. The first Intifada of 1987 prompted the Oslo Accords and the second intifada prompted the Arab Peace Initiative. So these are probably the four major peaceable breakthroughs since 1967, and they all followed with a time lag on the Obviously, some seismic event.”

    2023-11-24 · The Rest Is Politics: Leading · 47. Tony Klug: Could the Israel-Hamas conflict restart the peace process? · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source