YouSaid · the spoken record

Vladimir Kara-Murza

lines on the record: 89
first: 2020-09-14
most recent: 2020-09-14
sittings or episodes: 1
sources: podcast

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“And I was accepted at Cambridge to do history, going back to the conversation, like my grandfather and my father, I also decided to do history. And my specialty was actually in Russian parliamentary history. As you know, Russia was the last great power in Europe to have a parliament. Our parliament was only established in 1905 and elected in 1906. That was kind of my area of specialty. And then when I graduated from Cambridge, this was in 2003, so 15 years ago now, I immediately went back to return to Russia as I was always planning to. And that same year, in December of 2003, I ran as a candidate for the Russian parliament for the state Duma. That was that election that we already talked about that was the first election in Russia since the end of Soviet rule that was assessed by European observers as not fair. They had the brilliant definition. They said it's still free. They said it's free, but not fair. It was still free in a sense that we could participate because nowadays most opposition candidates are taken off the ballot ahead of time, so people don't even have a chance to vote for them for us. Back then, we could still make it to the ballot.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And I basically said, you know, you just opened up. I presume you don't have a correspondent in London. I'm a student. I'm really interested in writing for you. Would you be willing to take me on as a journalist? And I got a response back again by facts. And the editor-in-chief said, sure, try. And so I tried. And I remember my first article was this was in 1997. I was 16 years old. It was about the vote in the British Parliament about banning the fox hunt, something that was a centuries-old tradition, but of course because of the cruelty and then the campaign led by animal rights groups they banned it. That was my first ever publication. I think I'm always going to remember this. And so I was still in school, in high school, but I already began to work as a journalist and this continued for a few years. Then I went to work for a different Russian newspaper, Commerce Sant. It was kind of the main daily political newspaper in Russia. From Britain. Yes, still as the UK correspondent.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I spent a few years in the UK as a student, went to finish school there and then went to university. I read history at Cambridge. And also while I was still a student, I began to work as a journalist from the age of 16. I worked as a journalist. At that time, don't forget, it's a 90s where the real independent press then. It's a lot like it is today. And there was a new publication that opened in 1997. It was called Novis Vestia. It was a daily newspaper. And they had just opened. We still had fax. Some of us still remember that.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And when President Obama came in instead of President Borsh, he did the same thing. He declared a reset in relations. He praised Vladimir Putin for the great work he was doing on behalf of the Russian people and so on and so on.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Literally, two days after Vladimir Putin pulled the plug on the last independent nationwide television network in Russia. Literally today, that's not a figure of speech, two days. Two days after he did that, he was treated to a state visit to the United Kingdom with a lavish reception at the city of London, at the London Guild Hall, with a royal reception of Buckingham Palace. And I remember I was there. I was working as a journalist at the time in London. I was there, saw this with my own eyes. It was absolutely mind-boggling. toasting him, you know, singing or he's a jolly good fellow and all that. I mean, what kind of message does a dictator get when this happens? And it's the same thing were happening on this side of the Atlantic. George W. Bush hosted Mr. Putin and his family retreat, Kenny Bunport. He famously or infamously looked into his eyes and got a sense of his soul.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“To rig elections, and in 2003, for the first time since the end of Soviet rule, European observers have assessed the Russian election as being not fair. I remember that election very well. I was a candidate for the Russian parliament in 2003. So all of these things were happening. And all the while, leaders in the West on both sides of the Atlantic, both in Europe and here in North America, were basically rolling out a red carpet for Vladimir Putin. I mean, I'll never forget in June of 2003”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Suddenly really open and very willing to accept Vladimir Putin when he came to power. We already talked about this, you know, how Putin began his rule with the unveiling of the memorial plaque to Andropov in the first year of his presidency. He reinstated the Stalin era music of the Soviet national anthem as a national anthem of Russia. Again, Russia is a country of symbols. If anybody was asking which direction Putin was going to take the country, that was the answer. And very quickly he went from symbols to actions as he began to shut down or take over independent television networks as he began to go after the opposition and the supporters of the opposition when he jailed Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who was the richest man in Russia and who was an active supporter of opposition parties and opposition candidates, also supported civil society groups and exposed government corruption. He was put in prison in October of 2003 as a very kind of vivid symbol, vivid message that if you do what he does, you're going to end up like him, then he began.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“We never had that prospect. Russia never had that prospect even in theory. There's no good reason for us not to. I mean, Russia is a European country. And the rules of the European Union, the Copenhagen criteria said that if you fulfill those, of course, there are very clear criteria that need to be fulfilled, no question about it. But it does say this document that the Treaty of Maastricht reiterated it, that any European country that fulfills the Copenhagen criteria should be eligible for membership in the European Union. Russia is a European country. We will never offer this even in theory, with NATO already talked about this example from 1991, and this is just one thing that stands out, that stands out, there were many of them. And the astonishing thing is that the same Western governments that refuse to fully embrace and fully accept democratic Russia in the 90s”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think another important factor was that, for example, all the other Central and Eastern European countries that were once part of the Soviet-led bloc. They were all offered prospective membership. European Union to incentivize their reforms both political and economic and it served I can tell I have many friends and colleagues in Central Europe and Baltic states and I can tell you that this prospect of membership in the European Union of European and Euro-Atlantic integration so both NATO and EU it played an enormous role it was a massive incentive for them to you know to conduct those often very difficult and very unpopular reforms but they had a goal ahead of them that they worked towards and now all of these countries are members of NATO and the European Union”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It's that letter signed by the president of Russia officially raised the prospect of future Russian membership in NATO, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Never even received a response. And this is just one example. There were many others. Unlike, for example,”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I think the biggest mistake that Western countries made with regard to the democratic Russia in the 90s was that there were not ready and not willing to fully embrace and fully accept the new democratic Russia as an equal partner, as an equal partner in their own ranks. Give you a specific example. On December 26, 1991, one day after the red flag came down on the Kremlin for the very last time, there was a North Atlantic Council meeting at the NATO headquarters in Brussels. All the NATO ambassadors sitting there led by the Secretary General Manfred Werner Werner Werner W And the Russian ambassador walks in and he hands a letter from President Yeltsin addressed to the NATO Secretary General Manfred Warner. And that letter, it's since been published. Now we can find it online.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Absolutely, and there were so many mistakes made right from the beginning, including, I think, the main mistake that was made by the Russian government, by the Democratic Russian government, was it was not prepared to fully come to terms with the totalitarian past and to account for all the crimes and to open up all the archives and to conduct lustrations like other countries of Central and Eastern Europe did, where you actually placed some limitations on the people who were involved in the crimes of the old regimes from holding active positions of power. We never had that. We never had the full opening of the archives. We never had a full trial of the old regime, or we never even had anything like the truth and reconciliation commissions like they had in South Africa that fall apartheid. So we never had any of this. And if you don't really turn the page for the past, then it's easy to repeat it. And this is what we're seeing today. So that's, and there are many other mistakes that were made. But the West.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And neither am I. I think that would be frankly too easy, too simplistic, and not true. And the main mistakes that led to this authoritarian restoration that we have with Vladimir Putin and Russia, the main mistakes were made by us, by Russians, especially by the first reformist governments of President Yaltsin, not necessarily, I don't think at all through any bad intentions or through any malice, but just mostly because they were unprepared for that. You know, when power falls on you in three days. Difficult to be ready”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, I think there are a lot of things the West could have done differently. First of all, I want to say that not one of those who blames the problems of Russia in the 90s and the West. Who says that the West is at fault for? No, understood, but I mean, there are people who say that, but that would frankly be too.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Another factor was the NATO military campaign against Yugoslavia in the spring of 1999 that really ratcheted up the anti-Western sentiments in Russian society. And that was also an important factor for damaging the political standard.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In many factors, but the most decisive one was the Second War in Chechnya, which was the backdrop to his coming to power. It all began in August of 1998 when largely because of the global economic crisis, and especially the East Asian financial crash, we had a big economic collapse in Russia. The government had to default in its debts. There was a massive devaluation of the currency. And that was the time when the last to date, at least the last liberal government liberal-minded reformers government in Russia left power. And after that, every prime minister was connected to Soviet secret services, Evgeny Primikov, then Sergei Stepashan, and then Vladimir Putin. So that financial crisis really damaged the political prospects of liberal reformers, their pro-democracy reformers in Russia.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Names, their biographies, and the list goes from Boris Nemtsov to Vladimir Putin. And you can kind of see with every succeeding face, it becomes worse and worse and worse and worse. And finally, we end up with what we have today.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Yes, he was a news anchor, actually. At NTV, which was the largest, the most popular independent television network in Russia in the 90s, and that was the first, one of the first targets, in fact, the first target of Vladimir Putin when he came to power. The first thing he made sure was to shut down or take over all independent television networks in the country. But one of the exhibits in that Yeltsin presidential center, Ini Kachenberg, it's called The Hall of Successors. And it's about the people whom Yeltsin at different times wanted to succeed him as president of Russia. And so that whole is literally it's kind of dark.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“In the first years of Putin, it was more than 100, there is a big difference in that. But also the 90s were a period when we had democracy in Russia. It was a period when we had free competitive elections, you know, where the results were actually determined by how people voted. That's a revolutionary concept for Russia today. We had independent media in the 90s with, you know, most television networks in the country actually owned, privately owned, and independent of the state. Again, that's unimaginable today. Television networks that would offer independent and professional news coverage and political satire and analysis. And this was also...”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And then I go to Kachenburg, to the Yeltsin Presidential Center. And it's still, by the way, a government-affiliated institution. I mean, the chairman of the board is the current chief of staff of the Kremlin. So it's not a private entity. It's a state institution. Of course, he was a former president of Russia. And yet, it presents a very honest, I think, very much complete picture of that complicated period. It was no doubt complicated. There were many difficulties. I remember I lived through them. I lived in Russia in the 90s. I remember the difficulties. There were a lot of them. And a lot of them were caused by the legacy of seven decades of totalitarian rule. They also had a lot to do with the fact that, for example, oil price back in the 90s was $9 a barrel.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Tribute to Yeltsin. To be honest, it's more of a museum for an era than for a human being and for a person. It's done in the tradition of US presidential libraries. In fact, it was in part done by people who have built the Clinton presidential library in Arkansas. So it was done with American participation, but also a prominent Russian film director Lungin participated in its creation. I don't know how they do this. In fact, I telephoned the day after my film screening. I called Tatiana Yamashova, who is President Yeltsin's daughter. She's in charge of the center. And I said, I don't know how you do this, but thank you. This is such an oasis in today's Russia. We have this deafening propaganda on all national television networks, which of course are all now controlled by the state, you know, saying how talking about the decadent West, talking about the horrible 90s, Yeltsin's period is presented as this horrible time of humiliation and whatever else they make up.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Six months before he became president, that the next president of Russia will be Vladimir Putin. The vast majority of people would have responded who? You know we knew this. This was an absolutely astonishing example of How to make a political figure from nothing. I mean, the first election Put never ran in in his life was the election for president. He had never run for anything ever. And last year I was in Ekacherenburg at the Yeltsin Presidential Center for the screening of my documentary about Boris Nemtsov. And I had a few hours before the screening, so I went around the museum and the center. By the way, it's absolutely amazingly done if you ever have a chance.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Local bureaucracy in St. Petersburg. He was deputy mayor in charge of international relations. Then after the mayor of St. Petersburg lost the election in 1996 to his challenger, Putin was taken to Moscow, began to work again as an official, as a bureaucrat in the Kremlin administration and the presidential staff. And then literally in the last 18 months before he became president of Russia, he had this absolutely meteoric rise becoming first the director of the FSB, which is the main domestic successor agency to the KGB, then Secretary to the Security Council, then Prime Minister, and then finally president. If somebody said...”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And in fact, these people were right in a way because the political system, the Vladimir Putin has built in Russia today very much in many ways resembles the political system that existed in the German Democratic Republic. The communist is Germany. Because communist is Germany, unlike the Soviet Union and many other Warsaw bloc countries, was never officially a one-party state. It had a multi-party system on paper. And each German parliament had several parties in that, of course, all of them were just rubber stamps. enthusiastically supported the communist regime. This is exactly what we have in Russia today. We have a parliament that's famously or infamously, as its own speaker has described it. It's not a place for discussion. It does have several parties in it officially, but they all dance to the same tune that's being played from the Kremlin. So in that sense, people were right. But so in the 90s, Putin rose very quietly, very inconspicuously through the ranks of bureaucracy.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“She was from East Germany, yes. Absolutely. And I think, I mean, there's definitely a connection to Germany, no doubt, but except, you know, I remember this also when Putin was coming to power, a lot of people, especially a lot of wishful thinkers in the West who wanted to see Putin as a kind of a reformer. Somebody would continue the democratic trajectory. People would say that, well, you know, he spent so many years working in Germany. Surely he would have been influenced by some of this. And this is correct. Not a democratic.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So, of course, the short answer is Putin was a nobody. Nobody had known who he was, except some people at the city hall in St. Petersburg where he worked as a functionary, as a bureaucrat. I mean, he'd just come back in 1990 from his posting in East Germany as a KGB officer there. And in 1991,”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“psychiatric hospitals that were kept in torturous conditions. He was the one who set up a special department, a special directorate within the KGB, specifically aimed at targeting and suppressing political dissent. Previously a Soviet ambassador to Budapest, he oversaw the invasion of Hungary also in 1956. He was in many ways a symbol of Soviet political repression and it was to this guy that Vladimir Putin officially unveiled a memorial plaque 11 days before he became acting president of Russia. You remember there was all these questions being asked publicly, who's Mr. Putin, which direction you would take Russia? For anybody who's willing to heed the signals, there was the answer straight away.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Being taken down from its pedestal, and of course, eight years later, Vladimir Putin began with symbols as well. And in December of 1999, when he was still Prime Minister, this was 11 days before he would become the leader of Russia. He went to the same place, to the Lubyanka Square, to the site of the old KGB headquarters, and officially unveiled Memorial plaque to Yuri Antrobov. Aurian Dropoff was the chairman of the Soviet KGB. one of the most repressive systems he was the one who expanded the practice of so called punitive psychiatry this is when people political dissidents those who are opposed to the communist regime were declared mentally insane and committed to psychiatric”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“This was one of the tank divisions that actually joined the demonstrators, went over to the side of the people. As so often happens in these events. And so by the evening of August 21st, so just three, not even full three days after the coup began, it was over. The To the Ljubljanca Square, which was the site of the headquarters of the Soviet KGB, so in many ways the main symbol of the Soviet communist repression. They tore down Felix Dzzezinski, the founder of the KGB or the Chekhout, the NKVD, the Soviet secret police. Russia is a country of symbols. Symbols are very important in our country. So this is the most vivid symbol of that change, of that democratic revolution, the statue of Zerzhinsky, the founder of the KGB, you know, hanging by a noose that it was lifted on.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Had nothing except their own dignity and their Determination to defend their freedom and a sense of what was right. And so they went into the streets. tens of thousands and in hundreds of thousands peaceful unarmed citizens and they stood in front of the tanks. The tank Turned”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“They didn't even have to seize that, they control them anyway. All television press, radios, the switched off all the programs except Swan Lake, Gorbachev was placed under house arrest in his summer residence in Crimea. And we saw tanks on the streets of our city, on the streets of Moscow. You know, the same Soviet tanks that were sent to occupy Budapest, Prague, Vilnius. Day they came to Moscow itself. The leaders of that absolutely everything at their disposal, right? They had the whole machinery of the state and the military and the KGB, which was the most formidable. Machine of political repression, well, I think in the history of the world, and they had that. And of course they also had those tanks that we saw in our streets. The Russian citizens, the Muscovites, who refused Accept that or refuse to accept that call.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“Right, it was more actually technically Gorbachev. It was more in reality a coup against Boris Yeltsin, who just two months before then in June of 1991, in the first ever direct election for head of state in the history of Russia Thousand year history of Russia defeated The Communist Party's candidate by 57% to 17%, Yeltsin ran as a candidate for the Democratic opposition. He got 57%. And the Communist Party candidate got 17%. And it was clear that under his leadership, Russia would go. even a more radically democratic direction. And so these older apparatchiks and the KGB and the Communist Party leadership wanted nothing to do with it. So they decided to put an end to it. Once and for all. And so that morning,”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“So the way it started was one morning In August of 1991, we woke up and all the television networks were showing Swan Lake, Tchaikovsky's ballet, all the other programs were switched off, and we saw tanks on the streets of our city because the leadership of the Communist Party and the KGB decided to put an end to all these experiments with glassnost and democracy and perestroika and just go back to what they considered the good old ways. And the leaders of that coup. absolutely everything at their disposal or at least that's what it seemed they had the state apparatus the communist party machinery they had the old you know television radio and the press they had the military of course they had the police”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It could not work not for the state in the Soviet Union. So he only became a journalist actually in 1992, so when Russia was free from communist rule. So, yeah, he was there just as a citizen, as so many other people were. And this was a very formative experience for me those three days. So, you know, when you 10, In any country, in any situation, that's all enough to understand a lot of things. But certainly when you're witnessing a revolution going on in front of your eyes, and you definitely remember that. And that's a lesson that I'm going to carry for as long as I live. And”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“No, no, no, he wasn't a journalist then. He was actually out. He had a kind of a position of principle. He did not work under the communist regime. He thought, I mean, he gave private lessons to students, but he never worked officially. Thought that would go against this principles to work while the communist regime was in power. Because of course, everything was the state, right?”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“I was 10 years old. This was 1991, so unfortunately too young to take part. My father did spend all three days and three nights of the revolution at the barricades by the Moscow White House. But I was certainly old enough to”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“It has to stop somewhere. But then, of course, as these things happened when it did come the time to choose, I did go. I did do history at university and I did become a journalist. I began to work as a journalist from the age of 16. I'm not doing that anymore now. Now I'm in full-time politics. I'm an opposition politician. You can't really combine the two, obviously. But I was for a while a historian and a journalist. And I'm from the generation whose first conscious political memory in Russia was the democratic revolution of August 1991, you know, the three days that changed the history of the world in so many ways.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“David, and it's wonderful to be at the Institute of Politics. It's great to be here on your podcast. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here. Well, my grandfather was a historian and a journalist. My father was a historian and still is a historian and a journalist. And I always thought that, you know, when it comes for me to choose my profession, I'm going to be whatever I will be, but I'm not going to be a historian and a journalist.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source
“And now, from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics and CNN Audio, the Axe Files, with your host, David Axelrod.”
2020-09-14 · The Axe Files with David Axelrod · Best of the Axe Files: Vladimir Kara-Murza · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source