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Wojciech Zaremba

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2021-08-29
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2021-08-29
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  1. Nature provides some you can still let's say expand it throughout the life some of the reward functions they might be futile like for instance there might be a reward function Maximize amount of wealth. This is more like a learning reward function. But we know also that summary worth actions. If you optimize them, you won't be quite satisfied.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  2. Say if you would have to discover mathematics in mathematics, you are likely to run into various objects like a complex numbers or differentiation, some other objects. And these are very natural objects that arise. And similarly, the reward functions that we are having in our brain, they are somewhat very natural that there is a reward function for understanding A comprehension Curiosity and so on. So, in some sense, they are in the same way natural as their natural objects in mathematics.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  3. I think when you are born, there is some randomness. You can see that some people, for instance, they care more about building stuff. Some people care more about caring for others. Some people, there are all sorts of default reward functions. And then in some sense, you can ask yourself, was this like a... Is the satisfying way for you to go after this reward function and you just go after this reward function? And some people ask, are these reward functions real? I almost think about it as

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  4. So, yeah, I mean, I suspect that they will ask this question, but it's also a question that I ask myself many, many times. I can tell you a framework that I have these days to think about these questions. So I think that fundamentally meaning of life has to do with some of our reward functions that we have in brain and they might have to do with, let's say, for instance, curiosity or human connection, which might mean understanding others. It's also possible for a person to slightly modify their reward function. Usually they mostly stay fixed, but it's possible to modify reward function. And you can pretty much choose. So in some sense, reward functions, optimizing reward functions, they will give you life satisfaction.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  5. And also, that might lead to You're spending a lot of compute cycles on this, like deliberating this terrible future instead of experiencing now. And then in some senses, it's also kind of unpleasant simulation to run in your head.

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  6. Or some insurance companies. I'm just saying we respect the Might be a harsh statement to ourselves, but in some sense that there is a finite value of our own life. I'm trying to put it from perspective of being less, of being more egoless. And realizing fragility of my own life. And in some sense, the fear of death might prevent you from acting because anything can cause death.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  7. So, as I said, let's assume that they're like a reward functions in our brain. And the interesting thing is even realization how different reward functions can play with your behavior. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't say that you should assign infinite negative reward to anything because that messes up the math.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  8. We have in the company a person who at some point found out that they have cancer. That also gives huge perspective with respect to what matters now. And often people in situations like that conclude that actually what matters is human connection.

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  9. Yeah, I mean, to be clear, I'm not looking forward to die. I would say if there is no choice, I would accept it. But like in some sense, if there would be a choice, if there would be possibility to leave, I would fight for a living.

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  10. So, if I'm dead, then it kind of I don't have a choice anymore. So, in some sense, there is like a plenty of things that I would like to try out in my life. Feel that you know I'm gradually going one by one and I'm just doing them. I think that the list will be always infinite

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  11. I can say that Almost Unrevailable to me where I am in my life. I'm extremely grateful for actually people whom I met. I would say I think that I'm decently smart and so on. But I think that actually to a great extent where I am has to do with the people who I met.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  12. The light will pass very fast. At some point, I will be 40, 50, 60, 70, and then it's over. This is true, which also makes me believe that every single moment it is so unique. That should be appreciated. And it's also makes me think that I should be acting on my life because otherwise it will pass. I also like this framework of thinking from Jeff Bezos on regret minimization. I would like if I will be at that deathbed to look back on my life. And not regret that I haven't done something. It's usually, you might regret that you haven't tried. I'm fine with failing.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  13. So fear of death is like one of the most fundamental fears that each of us has, we might be not even aware of it. It requires to look inside to even recognize that it's out there. There is still, let's say, this property of nature that if things would last forever, then they would be also boring to us. Fact that the things change in some way. Gives any meaning to them. I also found out that it seems to be Very healing to people to have These short experiences, like I guess psychedelic experiences in which they experience. Death of self. The week they let go of this fear Can even increase the appreciation of the moment. It seems that many people Can easily comprehend the fact that the money is finite. While they don't see that tiny is finite. I have this discussion with Ilya from time to time. He's thinking, you know, man, like a

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  14. I mean, even if you look at the cup of water, so you know, you see. First, a level of a reflection of light. But then you think there's like a trillions upon trillions of particles bouncing against each other. There is also the tension on the surface that if the back could like stand on it and move around. And you think it also has this like a magical property that as you decrease temperature, it actually expands in volume, which allows for the legs to freeze on the surface and at the bottom to have actually not freeze which allows for life like a crazy. You look in detail at some object and you think actually, you know, this table that was just a figment of someone's imagination at some point. And then there was like a thousands of people involved to actually manufacture it. Put it here, and by default, no one cares

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  15. I wrote here actually corresponds to my subjective experience that I had through extended periods of meditation. It's pretty crazy that at some point the meditation gets you to the place that you have really increased focus, increased attention. And then you look at the very simple objects that were all the time around you can look at the table or on the pen or at the nature. you notice more and more details and it becomes very pleasant to look at it. If the ones again, it kind of reminds me of my childhood of being. It's also, I have seen even the reverse effect that by default, regardless of what we possess, we very quickly get used to it. And you can have a very beautiful house. And if you don't put sufficient effort, you're just going to get used to it. It doesn't bring any more joy regardless of what you have.

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  16. And it feels that humans are wired. There is some level of reward for creating stuff. Of course, different people have a different weight on this reward.

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  17. That's the same as you said that in case of supervised learning models. Might not kind of see, or it's not that easy for you to understand the strength.

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  18. Adversarial networks, or do you have just even generative language models And you can even see internally we have seen this thing with our releases. So we released recently two models. There is one model called DALI that generates images. And there is other model called clip that actually you provide various possibilities what could be the answer to what is on the picture. And it can tell you which one is the most likely. And in some sense, in case of the first one, DALI, it is very easy for you to understand that actually there is magic going on. And in case of the second one, even though it is insanely powerful, and you know, People from Vision Community as they started probing it inside, they actually understood how far it goes. It's difficult for person at first to see how well it works.

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  19. So If someone would optimize for things to be rewarding, then it feels that the things that are somewhat generative, they have such a property. So you have, for instance,

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  20. So on different levels of abstraction in some sense, but I would say reimplement something from scratch, reimplement something from a paper, reimplement something from podcasts that you have heard about. I'd say that's a powerful way to understand things. So it's often the case that you read the description and you think you understand, but you truly understand once you build it, then you actually know what really mattered in the description.

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  21. And then their friend said, let's make sure next time we have helmets But it's also, you know, I'm happy that nothing happened to me. It could have been the case that I lost the limb or so.

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  22. Attempt number three. And we dig a hole to put it inside. It actually had an electrical detonator. We draw a cable behind a tree. I haven't ever seen an explosion before. So I thought that there will be a lot of sound. But you know, we're like laying down and I'm holding the cable and the battery at some point, you know, it's kind of like a three to one. And I just connected it. And it felt like the ground shaked. It was like more like a And then the soil started kind of leaking. Haven't started falling on

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  23. At first, I got interested in producing hydrogen. That was kind of funny experiment from school. You can just burn it. But then I moved to nitroglycerin. So that's also relatively easy to synthesize. I started producing essentially dynamite that, and I think it will be different. I remember there was at first maybe two attempts that I went with a friend to detonate what we built and it didn't work out. And like a third time, he was like, ah, it won't work. Let's don't waste time. And now we were. I was carrying this tube with dynamite, I don't know, pound or so. Dynamite in my backpack. Like riding on the bike to the edges of the city.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  24. So let's see. A story goes like that. I got into chemistry. Maybe I was like a second grade of my elementary school, third grade. I started going to chemistry classes. I really love building stuff. And I did all the experiments that they describe in the book, like, you know, how to create oxygen with vinegar and baking soda. So I did all the experiments, and at some point I was, you know, so what's next? What can I do? And explosives, they also it's like you have a clear reward signal, you know, if the thing worked or not. So I remem

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  25. Might sound like a simplistic or so, but I would say literally just. Follow your passion double down on it. And if you don't know what your passion, just figure out what could be a passion so the step might be an exploration. When I was in elementary school was math and chemistry. And I remember for some time I gave up on math because my school teacher, she told me that I'm dumb. I guess maybe an advice would be just ignore people if they tell you that you are dumb.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  26. Often, actually, what I end up doing is even sending a message from that font to the other phone. So that's actually my way of recording messages, or I just put them into notes.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  27. So, one more thing that I do have a separate phone which has no apps. Maybe it's like audible or let's say Kindle. One has this phone number. This kind of my meditation phone. And I try to expand the amount of time that that's the font that I'm having. It has also Google Maps if I need to go somewhere. And I also use this font to write down ideas.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  28. I have the same problem. Now I have heard that Google Pixel is really good in transcribing text and I might get a Google Pixel just for the sake of transcribing text.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  29. So during the morning, I tried to work on the most important things rather than just being pulled by urgent things or checking email or so.

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  30. So it happened from my experience perspective. It happened to me many times during the high school days when I was doing mathematics that I had the solution to math problem as I woke up. At the moment regarding thinking hard about the given problem is. Trying to actually devote substantial amount of time to think about important problems, not just before the sleep. Like, I'm organizing out of the huge chunks of timestairs that I'm not constantly working on the urgent problems, but I actually have time to think about the important one

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  31. And it happens to me often like I wake up in the night and I have some idea. In the past I was writing them down on my phone, but that means turning on the screen and that wakes me up or like I'm pulling a paper which requires turning on the light. These days I just start recording it.

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  32. So, actually, I think the other big piece is getting into habit of generating ideas, training your brain toward generating ideas. And not even suspending judgment of the ideas. So, in some sense, I noticed myself that even if I'm in the process of generating ideas, if I tell myself, oh, that was a bad idea, then that actually interrupts the process and I cannot generate more ideas. I'm actually focused on the negative part why it won't work. But I created also an environment in the way that it's very easy for me to store new ideas. So for instance, next to my bed, I have a voice recorder.

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  33. Correct, and in some sense, so that was the assumption that many people had out there. And then if you free yourself from assumptions, then you are likely to achieve something that others cannot do. And in some sense, if you are trying to do exactly the same thing as others, it's very likely that you're going to have the same results.

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  34. Have to be aware that clearly there are many other brilliant people around so you have to ask yourself a question why the given idea let's say wasn't tried by someone else. In some sense, it has to do with simple, it might sound simple, but like thinking outside of the box, and what do I mean here? So for instance, for a while, people in academia, they assumed that you have a fixed data set and then you optimize the algorithms in order to get the best performance. And that was so in great assumption that no one thought about training models on anti-internet. Or that maybe some people thought about it, but it felt too many as unfair. In some sense, that's almost like a it's not my idea or so, but that's an example of breaking a typical assumption. So, you want to be in the paradigm that you are breaking a typical assumption.

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  35. I have meetings every day and they prevent me from having sufficient amount of time for focused work. Then I modified my calendar and I said that I'm out of office Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday every day, and I'm having meetings only Monday and Tuesday. And that was the positively influenced my mood that I have literally three days for fully focused work.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  36. And at the moment, in some sense, my sleeping schedule also has to do with the fact that I'm interacting with people. I sleep without an alarm.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  37. Tried at some point decreasing number of hours of sleep, like gradually a half an hour every few days less. You know, I was hoping to just save time. That clearly didn't work for me. At some point, there's a phase shift and I felt tired all the time. There was a time that I used to work during the nights. The nights thing about the nights is that no one disturbs you. And even I remember when I was meeting for the first time with Greg Brockman, his CTO and chairman of OpenAI. Our meeting was scheduled to 5 p.m. And I overstepped for the meeting.

    2021-08-29 · Lex Fridman Podcast · #215 – Wojciech Zaremba: OpenAI Codex, GPT-3, Robotics, and the Future of AI · IDENTIFIED FROM THE TRANSCRIPT · source

  38. Believe that struggle is necessary. I mean, in some sense, even look at the story of any superhero. Movie, it's not that it was like ever if he got easy, easy, easy, easy

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  39. Ilya had this belief that maybe one has to go for a week or six months to some challenging Just experience a lot of difficulties and then comes back and actually everything is bright, everything is beautiful.

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  40. And in some sense, it might be the case that we don't see light if we haven't went through the darkness. But I wouldn't say that we should.

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  41. At some point, she started being able to speak, but she was mumbling were they able to express herself. At some point, she got into wheelchair. Then at some point she actually noticed that she can move her toe. And then she knew that she will be able to walk. And then, you know, that's where she was five years after, and she said that since then, she appreciates the fact that she can move her toe. And I was thinking, hmm, do I need to go through such experience to appreciate that I can move my toe?

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  42. That kind of reminds me. I met a while ago at the Meditation Retreat, one woman, and beautiful, beautiful woman, and she had a crutch. She had the trouble walking on one deck. I asked her, what has happened? And she said that five years ago she was in Maui, Hawaii, and she was eating a salad and some snail fell into the salad and apparently there are neurotoxic snails over there. And she got into coma for a year. And apparently, there is a high chance of even just dying, but she was in the coma at some point, she regained partial consciousness. She was able to hear people in the room. People behave as she wouldn't be there.

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  43. My intuition, but I might be wrong, is that. Human computer interaction doesn't have to go through Computer being greedy, possessive, and so on, it is possible to train systems maybe that they actually, you know, they are, I guess, prompted or fine-tuned or so to truly optimize for what you care about. And you could imagine that, you know, The way how the process would look like is at some point. As humans, we look at the transcript of the conversation or like an entire interaction, and we say actually here there was more loving way to go about it. We supervise the system toward being more loving, or maybe we train the system such that it has a reward function toward being more loving.

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  44. I think that's the distinction between love and possession. These things might be often correlated for humans, but you might find that they're like some friends with whom you haven't spoken for months. Then you pick up the phone as the time hasn't passed. They are not holding to you. I wouldn't like to have AI system that it's trying to convince me to spend time with it. I would like the system to optimize for what I care about and help me in achieving my own goals.

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  45. So, if the system would be truly wishing me well rather than being in the situation that it optimizes for my time to interact with the system,

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  46. For body language, we still, you know, we kind of have a system that displays an image of its or facial expression on the computer, doesn't have to move mechanical pieces or so. So I think that there is kind of a progression. You can imagine that text might be the simplest to tackle, but this is not a complete human experience at all. You expand it to, let's say, images both for input and output. What you describe is actually the final, I guess, frontier what makes us human, the fact that we can touch each other or smell or so. And it's the hardest from perspective of data and deployment. And I believe that these things might happen gradually.

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  47. So, I think that actually still you want images like I would like. So I don't have kids, but I could imagine having AI tutor, it has to see kids drawing some pictures on a paper.

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  48. So they can be very important. And I'm saying the initial systems, they won't have it. Still, I wouldn't, there are people being born without these senses. And I believe that they can still fall in love and have meaningful life.

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  49. So let's see. We know that there are people who met each other online and they felt in love. It seems that it's conceivable to establish connection, which is purely through internet. Of course, it might be more compelling than more modalities you add.

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  50. Take us there. So there is the part of at first learning all the content out there. And I think that steel system should keep on learning as it speaks with you. And I think that should work. That question is how exactly to do it. And obviously, we have people at OpenAI asking these questions and kind of at first pre-training on all existing content is like a backbone and is a decent backbone.

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