Alan Kelly
Tipperary North · Labour Party · Ireland
“I have never, in my time in here, nearly 20 years, seen legislation so mental as regards the breadth and depth of issues. It is an A to Z of issues. Many of them could have been Bills on their own, while some of them could have been grouped together. The depth and breadth of issues here, however, is phenomenal.”
“I will not be opposing any amendments. Most of them are very technical, and a few of them are on significant issues. As I said previously, I believe in miscellaneous Bills. I brought them in myself. I have no issue with them, but this is one of the most mental Bills I have ever seen.”
“This is kind of like a repeat speech from when we previously discussed this issue. The motion is erroneous and mean spirited. The real question for the country is where these people are going to go. The options are not there.”
“It was thought that this would happen later, but so many people I know will be so thankful for and welcoming of this aspect of the legislation. They will be in with us later tonight. The issue in relation to counselling notes is one we really had to have so much discussion about. It was a very difficult discussion.”
“I acknowledge what the Minister said about my colleague, Senator Laura Harmon. She came to the Minister in relation to the sex-for-rent issue. I have to acknowledge the fact that the Minister has always commended her on this issue. She has always been a strong campaigner on this issue given her history of involvement in student politics.”
“It shows that they have worked. I do not see why, in the spirit of where we are and after everything we have said about the war in Ukraine, we are actually going to go and take this away now.”
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“The Minister might come back to us on that. I would like to know some figures in relation to the resources in the courts. I would like to know about any works through the OPW. In particular, I would like to see where we are going with regard to freeing up gardaí, digitisation, the future role of An Garda Síochána and court presenters and all of that. All in all, the Labour Party will be very much supporting this Bill and looking for its speedy introduction.”
“Again, the Minister might update us on that. I would be hugely supportive of this. I know a number of gardaí who have worked in the Garda presenter role in the courts. As the Minister knows, there have been issues with that, which have been outlined by certain judges, and we were in no man's land for a while in relation to this. Where are we at as regards how we can look at freeing up An Garda Síochána in the courts? What is the future of the Garda presenter role? Are we moving towards digitisation? Do we need to bring in legislation for how we deal with this? I would say it is a possibility that we would. It is a strong possibility that we will have to do so because otherwise people would be at the mercy of certain courts and certain judges making their own decisions on it under the current legislation as laid down.”
“The Future of Policing in Ireland report had a number of recommendations in this regard, some of which were accepted and some of which were not. I actually did not have much issue with them not being accepted. However, we need to look at how we can free up An Garda Síochána. I presume, given the issues we have with recruitment and retention and numbers in An Garda Síochána, that the Minister agrees with me on this. We need to look at how we are going to free up An Garda Síochána more within the courts. I was very taken with what the Minister said - it must be well over six months ago now, from memory - about the use of digitisation and documentation and how we were going to use digitisation on various charge sheets, bench warrants and a whole range of other things. Where are we in relation to that?”
“I will talk a little bit about resources and the courthouses. Where are we in relation to resources in the courts? The Minister might in his reply outline the staffing levels. If he has any updated statistics on staffing levels across the courts, they would be welcome. There have been a number of issues regarding various courthouses, some of which are in my own county, and the condition of courthouses, etc. What is the plan for working with the Office of Public Works, OPW, in relation to those? The Minister might give us some information on that as well. I want to raise a couple of issues in relation to An Garda Síochána and its workings in the courts. Earlier in the year, when the Minister was not long in the job, he spoke about hoping to make a number of changes with regard to how An Garda Síochána was going to work in the courts.”
“The spending per inhabitant on the courts in our jurisdiction is significantly less than in others. It takes 1.5 times longer for the various courts to sit. While acknowledging that the timescales in many of the courts have reduced and many cases have been expedited, there are still issues. In relation to the issues that have been outlined by other colleagues regarding sexual crimes, etc., we really need see how we can itemise these to bring them forward and deal with them in a quicker and more compassionate way. I would be willing to work with the Minister on that. I do not think there is a monopoly of ideas on it. I welcome the fact a colleague from Sinn Féin put forward a proposal that will certainly go through as well. We all need to look at every angle we can in this regard.”
“The Labour Party will support the Bill and we hope we can expedite it through the Houses. The Bill is based on the recommendations of the judicial planning working group. This is phase 2 of the recommendations, dealing with the addition of 21 judges. I have to acknowledge the improvements to the various different courts. The Minister read them into the record of the Dáil and I will not repeat them, but they need to be acknowledged. Nevertheless, the Council of Europe report has said that we are still way below the required volume of judges required when compared with our European colleagues, so we still have a bit of work to do on this. While the Bill is a step in the right direction, we will have to go again. We will have to see how the Bill works.”
“Please continue to work for the good of our communities as a whole without scapegoating minority groups who are powerless to bring about change. Harm against one of us harms us all. I was very taken aback by that. The small number of people who are so deeply affected need to be in the forefront of our minds from now on. Second, we need a positive campaign on the benefits of migration.”
“These extremist voices are boosted for being 'click-worthy' or creating debate. Unfortunately, the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice have both contributed inflammatory public comments after the attack in Drogheda this week. I am very privileged to be a white Irish woman in my own country, but as the child of returned emigrants, a returned emigrant myself, and as the wife of an immigrant, I feel the fears of growing xenophobia acutely. As the mother of autistic children, I am deeply concerned how racism affects the families in our club. My request to you is please to not mistake anti-immigrant noise for the sentiments of the vast majority of Tipperary people, who are generous, kind and tolerant. Most of us recognise that our rural schools and communities have been revived and enriched by newcomers over the past [20] years or so.”
“I will conclude by reading something sent to me by a lady in my hometown of Nenagh in relation to a club of which she is a member. I will not name her but it is a club that helps children with autism. She said she has stood with the club, supported it and recognises it. She wrote: I ask you to recognise that within our membership we have autistic children from refugee families and autistic children of immigrants, and that they face complex and multiple struggles in their daily lives. These children and their families are well aware of the growing racist discourse in public forums. They feel targetted, visible and afraid. They see comments on local Facebook groups, hear people saying the most awful things on programmes [on a radio show I will not mention] that are unavoidable in settings like GP surgery waiting rooms or small businesses.”
“I note the Minister and Government are changing in relation to those in IPAS making a contribution towards their accommodation. In principle, I do not have an issue with this; the problem is the quality of the accommodation in some instances. Would you be asking people to pay for it? I doubt it. Second, this will cost more than it will take in. Is it not symbolic rather than real? Third, we all know you cannot really chase the people involved for the funding, so why do it? We need a pathway and plan for those who are successful in naturalisation and migration. We should put a plan in place around English and Irish language learning, civics and everything else for those successful in their processing. That whole space has been let go but it is really necessary.”
“This is going on all the time everywhere around the country. Public representatives in some cases are as bad as everyone else. As a society, we need to change the narrative and change the dial on this. Will the Minister put in a positive campaign on migration? If he is to take on one suggestion from this House tonight, he might take that on. I would like to look at how we will integrate into a European plan. If somebody is denied asylum in one country, how do we deal with it here? We have never discussed that fully in this House. I would like to look at the issue of assessments. Obviously there is the issue in relation to bringing them down but, as regards appeals, how can that be streamlined even further? I believe in quick assessments, once they are done properly.”
“Talk about turning community against it, and those people in Roscrea had, in fairness, taken in many people before that. Those are the types of decisions that are ridiculous. We all know about the use of private facilities and how people are becoming so wealthy out of it. As the Labour Party has said through our strategy - and we are the only party that has published a strategy in relation to migration - we need to have publicly-funded infrastructure. We need to develop it quickly. There are real issues and they have to be dealt with. We also need to ensure we look at how information is being distributed. We had a fairly significant issue in Roscrea again recently. There was a carjacking. It was automatically assumed that the perpetrator - and I understand somebody is in court, so I will not say anymore – was possibly from the locality.”
“The reality is that one in five of all our workers - and the percentage is narrowing - is not originally from Ireland. We need these workers and we need to promote the benefits of such workers. I believe much of the political commentary recently has been diversionary in nature and it is absolutely horrendous. There are issues in relation to processing. There have been improvements, and I say that from an Opposition point of view to be balanced. However, there are also real, significant issues in relation to it still. The Minister has acknowledged the geographical distribution of IPAS centres needs to change. I dealt with an issue in my hometown of Roscrea where the last hotel was taken out for an IPAS centre. That is absolutely bloody stupid. Whoever made the decision in Dublin, oh my God.”
“I am talking about Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and Sinn Féin. Some of the commentary has been unacceptable. They have been trying to ride both horses. On the one hand, they want to be pro-migration while on the other hand, they make remarks which are totally unacceptable. We nearly had a catastrophic event recently in Drogheda. Can the Ceann Comhairle imagine what would have happened if that had turned into a tragedy? What would have happened in this House then? Where would we have been going? What would the people have demanded then? What would the narrative have been? Dare I bloody say it but where would all the keyboard warriors be then - these anonymous, faceless thugs and cowards? We missed out narrowly but thankfully on that tragedy. We all know about the events in Citywest two weeks ago.”
“We do not really play Gaelic football in Tipperary, although they play a little bit in Borrisokane. Those children were running up the street in their Borrisokane colours and now they were being moved. The same people who were going to block the entrance to the asylum centre four years previously were now going to block it to keep them in. That is the impact the people who arrived in Borrisokane had on the wider community. There was a large March through the town where I had to support them again because I will be consistent on this issue. When we talk about migration, we need to be positive about it. Everybody needs to be positive about it. I am very concerned about the three largest parties in this country and what they have been saying offline, online, in here, out of here and in every other way.”
“In 2019 before the last general election, I was one of the few public representatives - in fact, I was the only TD - who stood up in relation to dealing with the issues in Borrisokane. People were fighting, arguing and worried about the number of people coming into Borrisokane. There is a far-right element across this country and the Minister’s Department is very concerned about it. The Minister’s Department did a deal with the people of Borrisokane. The people of Borrisokane, who I am so proud to represent, honoured that deal. All of those people settled in Borrisokane, so much so as the Minister probably knows, that more than a year and a half ago, we had public meetings because they were being moved, including some 40 young children running up the street with their hurlies.”
“That is why we have so many migrants; we need the workers. The contribution they make is incredible and yet we focus in on a small percentage of them in relation to international protection, a considerable number of whom come to this country for proper reasons, considering they are allowed to stay. We talk about the small number of people who end up getting deported. Dare I say it but I have no issue with that. If you deserve to be deported, you should be deported. I believe in a rules-based system. I am not going to argue about that. I would argue about that if processing takes too long, particularly where children are involved, we are going to have to look at some exemptions. Does the Minister know why?”
“Will the Minister do a positivity campaign about migration to this country and the fact it is good that we are bringing these people into this country, that we need all these workers and that our health and care services would collapse without them? Let us call a spade a spade because many people will not say this. There are jobs in this country Irish people will not do anymore and we need people to supply services in our country. It is a good problem. That is outside the diversity, good social values and everything else that comes in from the mix of people arriving into our country and contributing. I have two kids in secondary school. Some of their best friends come from migrant communities. I see what is going around. I come from outside the town of Nenagh, which is one of the wealthiest towns in Ireland. It is doing very well.”
“We all know there have been decreases in relation to volume and, I understand, in the number of people being passed after appeal. The Minister said the majority of applicants are refused and he is right. The figure is approximately 58.4%. Some 40% are accepted. If I was Minister, the one thing I would do immediately is do a public awareness and support campaign for migrants into this country. Without them, this country would simply stop. I spent two years in the hospitals visiting my parents. Without migrants the health system in this country would stop. Across a whole range of other sectors, it would stop.”
“We are not dealing with it very well in some cases, particularly in the past few years. When we talk about defining the issues here, we have to discuss migration as a whole. This is a really pertinent and defining moment for our country. We are not really into extremes yet in this country, and that is a good thing, but we are in danger of changing as a country. The extreme views I am seeing across many different media formats out in the open in relation to a very small minority of people are very un-Irish. They are wrong. This is going to kill off forever Ireland of the welcomes. That is what we are known for. International protection is only a small percentage of migration into this country - it is approximately 10% to 12%.”
“When we talk about international protection, we need to wrap it up in the subject matter of migration. That is getting lost, not just in these Houses but in the country, and it is deeply concerning. Everybody in here has family members who have gone all over the world, mine included. I have double the number of first cousins outside this country than in this country. My only sibling lives in America. I have cousins in Asia, Australia and New Zealand - all over the world. Half of my mother's family emigrated in the 1950s. We know how this works. In many ways, we know better than any race how this works. As the Minister outlined in his opening statement, we spent generations as migrants. Over the past number of years, we have obviously had to deal with this subject matter.”
“I have gone to too many meetings at sporting clubs and met too many young people, and friends and neighbours of mine, who have become addicted to cocaine because of a lifestyle choice. In many cases these are middle class people who are purchasing this drug. I say as Chair of the sports committee that collectively as a society and all sporting organisations need to say enough is enough because it is in every sporting organisation in this country. Many young people think taking cocaine means they do take on calories, they do not have pints and do not drink as much, they do not have hangovers, etc. However, there are additional costs later on in life caused by the addiction I have seen in young people in my club, clubs around me and all over this country.”
“There is a lack of empathy in some cases. We need an holistic approach across justice, across health and across community to help people. What has gone on in the past has failed. We have to acknowledge that as a country. I hope the Minister of State will be brave enough to come along with us. As a party we do not have to own this. We are just so empathetic on this issue we have to use our Private Members' time to push this forward as something that, as a country, we need deal with. Finally, I want to address the issue of cocaine use. Cocaine use in this country at the moment is at an all-time crisis. We need a plan, as a country, not just on the criminal side and not just dealing with those bringing cocaine into this country but as a society we need to educate young people.”
“It is important to say that when we come to the issue of drug use, decriminalisation does not mean legalisation. Once we cross that line as a Legislature, then we can collectively work together. That is the most important line many people need to get their heads around. Criminal-based and justice-based actions in relation to this have not worked. This needs to be health-led. It is obvious now. With 10,000 people arrested every year for having drugs on them for personal consumption reasons, the number of man hours being taken up for An Garda Síochána is absolutely crazy. We need a policy change, and the Government needs to be brave about it. I raise the volume of drug-induced deaths purely because people are often so helpless that they will not seek help. That is the bottom line. There is a stigma. There is a lack of pathways.”
“We need a comprehensive new plan on drug use in this country. The dial has not moved in a number of years. Many of us have come on a journey over the past 20 years with regard to how we deal with this issue, myself included. I acknowledge my colleague, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, who has certainly influenced me and I would say many others on this issue. His interventions as a former Minister are the interventions we are still looking at today. We finally have a centre for consumption here in Dublin but nowhere else in Ireland. What has happened in the past is simply not enough. We need a complete dial change in relation to this issue and Government needs to be brave and make those changes. My colleagues have outlined them. We need a mature strategy on this.”
“He and his wife and kids will have nowhere to live because he had the guts to open up an issue relating to how funds were being misspent within the Prison Service. This is what he gets for doing so. I want to ask two things. Can we ensure that the process by which protected disclosures are dealt with is done in an efficient manner and as quickly as possible and that we do not have another scenario whereby we are the laggards in Europe in relation to this? Will the Tánaiste try to ensure that no one else will end up like Noel McGree, namely having to sacrifice the family home because they cannot pay their mortgage and ending up on the street because they did what was right?”
“More than half of the submissions relating to a recent EU inquiry into the evaluation of whistleblower protections came from Ireland. There were 40 such submissions. This is concerning. The length of time - whatever the outcome - it is taking to process disclosures, the manner in which some of them are being dealt with and the toing and froing involved is not good for the State and it is certainly not good for the individuals involved. I want to raise the case of Noel McGree, who first pointed out wrongdoing in the Prison Service in 2013. He made a substantial protected disclosure in 2019. Noel is being made homeless, as are his wife and two kids. I have met Noel. The Leas-Cheann Comhairle knows the issues relating to Noel well. He is going to be out on the streets.”
“It may mean identifying a site, putting a 100-bed unit on it and wrapping a hospital around it, because I know that will take more years, or using Nenagh or Ennis. We will debate all that again. Will the Tánaiste confirm the principle that the mid-west will have a future, that there will be ambition for it and that we will be able to address these issues for the people and that in the future they will not be frightened of going into just one access point through UHL?”
“I appreciate the Tánaiste’s reply but we need more certainty. This has gone on way too long. His Government needs to make a decision now to have a model 3 hospital. The idea of sending everybody through the UHL emergency room is downright bananas. It is crazy. It is criminal. We need to upgrade the model 2 hospitals in Nenagh and Ennis, 100%. However, a decision has to be made on the principle that the mid-west would have one model 3 hospital. The mid-west has a growing population and a population that is larger than that in the south east which has two model three and one model four hospitals. I accept the Tánaiste has gone far but I urge him to confirm that he will do this because we need it.”
“Now we have a HIQA report. It is beyond me why HIQA is even doing this report on hospital services. What needs to happen is as clear as the nose on my face. Deputy Sheehan and I, and all the other mid-west politicians, cannot be another generation that lets down our area. We need a new model 3 hospital with a full emergency theatre and intensive care unit in the mid-west. Full stop. If that means we will build a unit of 100 beds to deal with capacity at the moment and then wrap a hospital around it, that is what we need to do. I stand here today speaking from personal experience, but also as one of this generation of politicians. Will the Government and the Tánaiste personally, be the brave people to say they will deliver another model 3 hospital to stop the discrimination in our region?”
“It was about my father. I had to convince him while I was here to get into an ambulance at his house. He said, "Alan, I will never come out" and he never did. He came home to die, despite receiving the best care. What is on my conscience is that he went in there afraid. My mother is in Nenagh Hospital at the moment. She will not be put into UHL because, at this moment, I will not allow it. It has nothing to do with the workers or the management. It has to do with the circumstances. We have been discriminated against in the mid-west. I stand here with lived experiences. A few months ago, my wife got very sick. It was 4 a.m. I rang someone who works in the HSE to ask for advice. I was told to go to Portlaoise. I live about 25 minutes from UHL. I went to Portlaoise. That is what all of us in the mid-west are facing.”
“I will briefly break a tradition. I am holding a sign I have up in my office, which says "Vote No to the Hanly Report". It is there as a reminder to me that 25 years ago, I marched through the streets of Nenagh holding that sign, to protest against the downgrading of my local hospital, the one in Ennis and St. John's Hospital. People can blame that report for me coming into Dáil Éireann. I jest, but it was an inspiration for me. The mid-west - Limerick, Clare and north Tipperary - has been discriminated against when it comes to hospital services. The south east has a model 4 hospital and two model 3 hospitals. We have one model 4 hospital. I speak about this from personal experience. On 22 October last year, I stood here giving live evidence of why elderly people are afraid to go into University Hospital Limerick, UHL.”
“However, how is it acceptable that the misuse of this amount of money, this inefficiency and this loss of potentially crime-solving data is continuously allowed to happen? Why was this not dealt with many years ago?”
“It is quite ironic that the Minister mentions improvements in IT. He will know that our automated fingerprinting system, AFIS, was said to be out of date in 2016. Some 17,000 sets of prints have been lost forever. God knows what impact that has had on policing and crime. That system has been out of date since 2016. At the time, replacing it was quoted at €20 million. It has been renewed every year at a cost of €5 million. Some €40 million has been spent on a system that has to be replaced. How is that a good use of taxpayers' money? How is it a good example of using money to solve crime when 17,000 sets of fingerprints have gone missing? The Minister is right; we need to update our IT system. Gardaí need that.”
“There is also a large-scale scanner that cost €44,250. With licence renewals, that cost comes to more than €93,000. It has never been used. There is obviously an issue in An Garda Síochána that needs to be taken up with the Commissioner. Changes need to happen with regard to financial management.”
“On Deputy Kenny's meeting with the anti-corruption unit of An Garda Síochána later, I hope that internal promotions of those who are the subject of the ongoing investigation will not occur until that investigation is concluded. I am sure the Minister will agree. It is not just that, however. There is a culture. There was a contract worth €500,000 for holsters but these were defective and ended up being destroyed. There were other holsters that only had an issue with a strap but these were also destroyed at a cost to the taxpayer. Defective ammunition was also destroyed, at a cost of €160,000. A Walther LP500 air pistol for which An Garda Síochána had no use was bought at a cost of €2,000. Why does An Garda Síochána even have that pistol? It has nothing to do with policing. The Minister might investigate that.”
“What reforms is the Minister going to encourage the new Garda Commissioner to introduce? I will concentrate on financial controls and reform in An Garda Síochána. The Comptroller and Auditor General has issued a report about hundreds of thousands of euro being lost in connection with policing the Europa League final. Later today, my colleague Deputy Eoghan Kenny will meet with the Garda Síochána anti-corruption unit with regard to a senior garda having stayed in a very plush five-star hotel during the Biden visit, which obviously came at a serious cost to the taxpayer. What reforms is the Minister going to encourage the new Commissioner to introduce, particularly with regard to financial management and controls?”
“The bottom line is that Willie Penrose was right when he said that the amount of money we save as a State because people do not end up in healthcare settings, particularly acute settings, is ginormous. It is huge and unquantifiable. That is the quid pro quo for getting rid of the means test on carers. The people who perform this duty - it is a duty - are saving the State so much. Getting rid of the means test on carers is a quid pro quo for that work. To show that we support them, it is our duty as legislators to ensure this happens and I encourage the Minister to do so.”
“There are young people who sacrifice years of their lives, careers, education, social lives and relationships because we, as a State, are taking them for granted. It is not just a case of providing a form of income for the work they do and giving them dignity. It is also about giving them options in life. We are taking away more than just an acknowledgement that they deserve an income. For many families, anytime there is a change of circumstance within the household - a promotion, an additional payment, someone turning 18 or returning from college and starting work - there is huge concern and anxiety. A whole range of other things can happen across a household and the means assessment starts all over again. This worry and concern is something that we really have to be cognisant of.”
“Will he be brave enough to do it in this budget? It sounds like he will not. Will he brave enough to do it in the following year's budget, or predict if he will be able to do it? He might outline to us what he intends to do. We all know - it has been said often in this House - the role that carers play and how critical it is. I am the same. I see it every day all around me, where I live, everywhere. Across the country we have so many people who provide care. What we are not saying is that we are trading on their love for their family members. We are trading on it. Regardless of whether they are getting paid or getting an income for what they do - "pay" is not the right phrase - they are going to do it one way or another because they love the people they are caring for. We are really taking them for granted.”
“I welcome this motion brought forward by the Social Democrats. It follows motions put before this House before. The Labour Party has raised this numerous times, particularly for young carers who are really discriminated against. If I may reach back into the annals, there was a Deputy, Willie Penrose, who raised this matter here for at least a decade if not longer. He argued that in real terms this was self-financing because of the fact that people were kept out of acute healthcare settings. I believe the Minister is committed to getting rid of this. The differential relates to the timelines for doing it. While the Minister will, in fairness, increase income disregards and all of that, he needs to commit to this House how long it will be before he fully gets rid of it. He has hinted at it previously.”
“It was not acceptable as a country that we were left in that position, but the reality is we were. Now, it is different. Now, there is time for change and time to be able to create a form of rules and balances as regards how we spend this money. I appreciate what is going on in terms of Citywest but I want to see it across the board for many reasons. For social reasons, I want the best for people who are coming into this country and who need and deserve protection. I believe their applications should be processed quickly, particularly where there are children. If they are not processed within a reasonable time, then we do not have an opportunity to remove them. We had that debate yesterday. However, we need to see some form of criteria that all of us in this House can stand over regarding how these decisions are made.”
“I respect the fact that the Minister cannot give out the weightings table by which decisions are made between when to give a provider a contract and when to buy another property, but it would be good to have some indication of the measurements by which these are made. Transparency is the Minister's ally here. There are serious concerns out there about how so much money has been spent with certain people and companies in certain locations. It cannot continue. I appreciate the fact that, when the Minister's predecessor was in office and during Covid-19, the number of people coming into the country was unprecedented. Checks and balances, the rules and everything else was up for question. The volume of accommodation that was required instantaneously was incredible. There was serious pressure.”
“However, we also need to match that in relation to where other properties can be procured and ensure fair geographical distribution. I have asked numerous times and received a breakdown by local electoral area of where people are being located. I understand that this cannot be an exact science and that there are various different measures that have to be met. However, there is an imbalance in regard to where we are locating people in communities. I believe in the system and I want it to work, but it has to be fair. I am still not sure it works or is fair. I accept that there have been improvements and I acknowledge and commend the Minister on some of those improvements. Having said that, how do we ensure we have geographical balance, regional balance and community balance in this?”
“This is just a transfer of a number of functions and also capital in relation to the purchase of accommodation in regard to provision of accommodation for IPAS. I would make an observation in relation to it. As referred to by Deputy Carthy earlier, we had interaction yesterday in the justice committee in regard to value for money in the purchase of properties, which will be seismic but over will create greater value over a number of years, it is believed, given the ongoing volumes of people coming into the country. Will the Minister outline whether there are intentions to purchase similar types of properties, maybe not to the same scale but properties in other locations around the country? I read through the costings the Minister estimated for Citywest, which are seismic, but in comparison to what was going on before, there are savings.”
“The Government has a choice between trying to help children who are sleeping in cars with their families because they are homeless or giving a tax break to Ronny McDonald. Which one will the Government do?”
“Where are we going as a country when a child is eyeing up excess meals from the school-based programme to bring them home because their parents need to eat? That is where we are at. I accept the school meals programme, the back to school books allowance and the provision of books and other resources are good. However, the fact of the matter is that the escalating costs in this country across all the range of issues my colleagues mentioned is so excessive that we need to continue the targeted measures my colleagues have listed. The Government really needs to make those decisions within the next two weeks, otherwise when the budget is announced I will be coming back in here and repeating what I said at the start.”
“Ultimately, we need to break it down for the general public out there that these are the choices we, as a Chamber, collectively have to make, and which the Government will be pushing through. That is the difference between what the Government believes in and what we believe in. We do not say that too lightly, but we have to say it because we have to break it down into the choices that we have. The Government has choices. The cost-of-living situation is chronic. I have never seen it as bad. A teacher has told me of a situation, and I support the hot school meals programme, where a student stuffed their bag with a couple of extra meals because they said "Mammy likes those meals." It is great that they actually have those meals.”
“I know the Minister, Deputy Calleary, ended by saying the Government will strive to reduce child poverty. What he should be saying is it will aim to eradicate child poverty. Not enough debates in here are about philosophy, but ultimately this is a debate about political philosophies. If you want to break that down into layman's language in relation to this issue, it is about whether we should be doing everything we can to prevent children from being homeless, sleeping with their families in a car, which I have had to deal with in the not too recent past, or whether we should give a tax break to McDonald's. This is a real issue for the Government facing into this budget, because it is either children sleeping in cars and homeless, or a tax break to Ronny McDonald. That is the choice.”
“I really need to know it because there are so many people in the locality who need this open because not every nursing home will take people who are high-dependency.”