James Lawless
Kildare North · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“I am always open to feedback. The academics and authors of that report are entitled to their views, as are others. I just do not share all of their conclusions. As the Deputy said, the consultant spending was before my time. A lot of it was before the Department even existed.”
“More broadly, and this is something I think there is great potential to do more on, we are also promoting modern methods of construction, MMC, so we can embrace 2D or 3D models where they are either partially assembled off site and then brought to the location or almost fully assembled and the finished kit is brought into place.”
“In the energy space, that includes a commitment of €10 billion to enhance the grid capacity, because we need to be able to transit the energy as well as generate it, the workforce and the talent to do that - everything from retrofitting to green energy technicians and renewable energy engineers.”
“The capital funding envelop available to me is the mechanism through which I fund these projects, which is significant with €4.55 billion allocated across my Department for capital projects. SETU is the relevant institute in the south east, and it has multiple campuses, including a presence in the Xcelerate Centre at St.”
“I will recap on some of the measures I have introduced already because it is important to put them on the record again. In the previous budget, I was pleased to introduce the first ever permeant fee cut for students since free fees were introduced almost 30 years ago with a €500 permanent reduction.”
“Exactly. That is why we have a record €4.5 billion commitment across the sector. Regarding student facilities, there is the likes of the bundle 2 PPP programme which enhances student facilities on university campuses across the country.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,142 lines we hold for James Lawless, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 10 of 23.
“I make no apology for supporting the refit and refurbishment of such buildings to bring them back into productive use for the benefit of training and of the economy. There are examples like that all over the country. That is exactly what we are enabling. Having had that conversation with ISME and IBEC, they are somewhat reassured by that because this is about training people up to take up productive positions in employment and utilising all the assets available to us to do that, including both greenfield and brownfield sites. Senator Tully mentioned Cavan and some courses being postponed at one stage or maybe even cancelled. I am not familiar with the individual situation but each ETB is autonomous. Each ETB has its own independence and makes its own decision about funding.”
“Then we have all our craft skills such as our electricians, our plumbers and our tradespeople so critical to our national emissions, particularly in regard to housing and building out the infrastructure. All those people need a roof over their heads and four walls. More than that, they need proper state-of-the-art facilities and equipment under which to train and that is where we go the capital piece of this. In some cases, it may be considered that a particular facility is right for repurposing. I visited a centre in Killybegs recently, for example, where we are now providing electrician and refrigerator apprenticeships. That was an old building. It had many uses dating back over a century and it is now being used as a state-of-the-art apprenticeship school.”
“I suppose where they might have had a query, and we touched on this in the debate already, is that we need to provide facilities to provide training for those in employment and we cannot train people on thin air. Senator Daly gave the example of people getting out in the open air in the past where they did not have proper facilities. We are in an advanced economy. We need things like robotics in manufacturing. It is a complex world and the number of apprenticeships, in particular, continues to grow. We now have the wind turbine maintenance apprenticeship, which I saw with Senator Kennelly in Kerry not so long ago. The facility is there in Tralee. We have cybersecurity apprenticeships. We have original equipment manufacturer, OEM, manufacturing apprenticeships.”
“First of all, on the consultation with business, the Senator will be pleased to hear I have consulted widely with both IBEC and ISME. I have met them and engaged them in correspondence. I would like to think that their concerns have been addressed. Initially, they particularly took issue with the idea of decarbonisation being a pattern. What I have said to them, and I think they are more reassured now, is that, first of all, the Bill remains absolutely true to its original purpose, as in the Act of 2000, to support the skills of those in employment or seeking to take up employment or to provide information as to future and current skills needs. That remains the sole purpose of the Bill and that has not been changed at all in the legislation.”
“I was also very impressed. The Taoiseach, as the Senator said, also visited it. In a world where we have increasing strategic importance in things such as subsea cables and strategic security, CRIS can only play a greater role. While it is not strictly an NTF-funded project, using the INSPIRE research fund, which is a €750 million fund for research infrastructure and research equipment and upgrades, I would envisage that the likes of CRIS may be in a position to pitch into that competitive tender process in the new year. It is exactly the kind of project that I hope will get some momentum from the various funding initiatives that I am creating. Senator Tully asked about a number of things and I will try to address them.”
“I have met people across many fields of research, innovation, higher education and further education in the time I have been in this role and it has only been a short ten months. It really is very broad and wide and there is great passion across every sector and across every learner who I meet and, indeed, all the tutors. It very much is, as Senator Ryan said, an economic portfolio because this is how we build the skilled workforce and labour force and talent of the future. Our people are our greatest national asset. We have a knowledge and skills economy, and to keep that rolling, as Senator Daly said, we need the pipeline of people coming through it to keep that going. That is true. I will touch briefly on the Centre for Robotics and Intelligent Systems, CRIS, in UL. I visited it, with Senator Ryan and Deputy Crowe, a few months ago.”
“I thank the Acting Chairperson for those kind words and her support with facilitating this session today. I thank the Seanad, more generally, for facilitating the passage of this Bill because it was something that was important to get through by year end so that we can begin to spend this money in 2026. It has been talked about for a long time but, finally, we can begin to open it up and do it. I will reply insofar as I can to the individual contributions and maybe make some general points. I thank Senator Ryan. The phrase "a rich tapestry" the Senator used is apt. It is a rich tapestry. It is broad and deep. I was in UCD this morning at a conference on space. I was out yesterday meeting apprentices.”
“This will finally unlock that fund for the benefit of the higher and further education sectors. It is critical legislation and I commend it to the House.”
“I have had the privilege of visiting a number of training sites in my time as Minister all over the country where some older buildings had exactly that experience of being retrofitted and brought back into productive use. I commend all the organisations, including the education and training boards, ETBs, where they have done that and that has enabled the creation of many more apprenticeships, for example, in many sectors. We have consulted widely, including with the National Skills Council and the high-level skills implementation group and stakeholders such as IBEC, ISME, and others on this legislation and to reassure them on some of the matters I have mentioned. This is something that has been called for for many years - funding the future, the deficit, the universities and skills provision.”
“There was some mention of retrofitting premises and refurbishment of various buildings. They key point on that is any building refurbishment or refit will only be to provide a training space for those seeking to acquire skills for the purpose of employment and consistent with the needs of the Act. We need to provide facilities. We cannot train people in an empty space or in thin air so it is important we have state-or-the-art leading facilities and modernised facilities and equipment to conduct the training. That is a key part of the reason we have capital expenditure. In some cases, that may involve retrofitting an older building to bring it back into productive use.”
“I am confident that any issues that were ventilated have been addressed in the sense the amendments here are minimal and the €1.5 billion budget package will be enabled for full support to the sector and will allow that very necessary and important expenditure from the NTF. One concern raised in the Dáil was that capital expenditure from the NTF may be used for purposes other than for skills development. I reassure the House that the purposes of the NTF Act will not be amended by the Bill at all and that any capital funding utilised for the NTF can only be used and will only be used in accordance with the legislation, that is, for training, upskilling, reskilling, or identifying skills needs. The legislation does not permit the funding to be provided from the NTF for any other purpose than those I have just mentioned.”
“It is important to note these payments must be made in accordance with a scheme to raise the skills of those in employment, to provide training to those who wish to acquire skills for the purposes of taking up employment or to provide information in relation to existing, or likely future, requirements for skills in the economy. Any amendments under this Act and any capital expenditure is entirely consistent and in harmony with the aims of the Act as set out in the parent Act and as remain unchanged in these amendments. Section 2 has the Short Title and commencement and the usual necessary protocols. I listened carefully during the recent Dáil debates and exchanges. I thank colleagues across that House for their support for this legislation.”
“It does not amend in any way the purpose of the NTF Act, which is to fund schemes established to raise the skills of those in employment, or provide training to those who wish to acquire skills for the purposes of taking up employment or to provide information relating to existing and likely future requirements for skills in the economy. The Bill includes sections as follows. Section 1 relates to the amendment of section 7 of the National Training Fund Act. The section provides for the insertion of a new section 7(2B) to provide that payments from the National Training Fund in respect of a scheme may include payments in respect of the acquisition of lands, premises, furniture or equipment and the upgrading, construction or reconstruction, including repair and maintenance, of premises.”
“That will ensure that the new NTF expenditure announced in budget 2025 can be provided from 2026 onwards. This will provide key educational training facilities, opportunities for employees and opportunities for those seeking employment. The funding will also assist in meeting existing and future skills needs for employers. The NTF is a strategic national asset for reskilling and upskilling our workforce and the funding package of nearly €1.5 billion will deliver substantial and impactful investment to deliver the critical skills necessary for the 21st century. I will recap on the main provisions of the Bill, which provides for minimal amendments for the parent Act.”
“That legal advice noted that an amendment to the National Training Fund Act would be required to facilitate capital expenditure on land and infrastructure being part of that fund. Legal advice was further sought during the drafting of the Bill on whether an amendment of the Act was required to facilitate core funding for higher education and research innovation expenditure and the legal advice was received that an amendment was not necessary to facilitate enhanced higher education and research funding once the schemes developed met the purposes of the Act, which is the key point. They all do, they are consistent and the original purpose of the Act is not being amended in any way. The Bill, therefore, makes minimal amendments to the original parent Act of 2000. It merely provides for capital expenditure from the NTF.”
“It also included a €600 million capital uplift to enable skills development, including facilities, in areas such as healthcare, veterinary skills, further education skills, supporting universal access to skills provision and across the research sector, including an increase in the PhD stipend. A further €50 million was then made available through the national development plan, NDP, review process for research and development, bringing the total capital package to €650 million. It is important to note that the NTF expenditure increases general government expenditure and can only be accommodated within the fiscal strategy agreed by Government. The NTF surplus funding package, therefore, is accomplished within those ceilings. During the proposals being formalised in 2024, legal advice was sought on funding capital expenditure from the NTF.”
“The accumulated surplus of the NTF at the end of 2024 was approximately €1.77 billion and during 2024 consideration was given to how the surplus could be effectively accessed and utilised to meet the existing and future skills needs for employees, those seeking employment and employers, together with addressing the funding needs for further and higher education within the spending parameters of the annual budget. Budget 2025 delivered a total NTF funding package of €1.485 billion over a six-year period for the tertiary sector, including €885 million current funding including increasing funding for higher education by a further €150 million per annum by 2030 and one-off current funding for the tertiary sector, including the areas of skills and apprenticeships.”
“Currently the NTF levy is set at 1% of reckonable earnings and that was increased in budgets 2017, 2018, 2019 up to 2020 by 0.1% and now sits at 1%. One of the key priorities of the fund is to strengthen and shape existing and develop new higher education, further education and training, FET, provision to ensure alignment with workforce reskilling, upskilling and lifelong learning requirements . This is essential to deliver on the talent needs of the economy and strengthen Ireland’s competitive position and reputation for an agile, responsive, and highly skilled workforce.”
“Effectively, the fund has been a very useful instrument available to the training system for some time and this looks to the remit of it and allows it to be used for slightly more competencies and capabilities that enhance the purposes for which it is intended, which is the provision of skills for those in employment and facilitate lifelong learning, to provide training for those who wish to acquire skills to take up employment and provide information on skills requirements in the economy. As the relevant Minister I am responsible for the overall management, monitoring and evaluation of the fund, while my colleague the Minister for Finance manages and controls the investment account. The fund is financed through a levy on employers that is collected through the PRSI employers’ contribution.”
“It is good to have agreement at the outset, indeed. I am delighted to be here to present the Bill, which amends the National Training Fund Act 2000. The Bill was published on 10 October and concluded its passage through the Dáil on 3 December. I welcome the support received in the Dáil for the Bill, which aims to provide capital funding from the National Training Fund, NTF, for the purposes of providing and improving facilities for training and skills development.”
“Subsequent to that, ministerial approval issued to SOLAS to increase the hourly rate of pay by 42%, which is very positive and I am sure was very welcome, bringing the rate up from nearly €15 per hour to €21 per hour, with 8% holiday pay included as well. I know there are other claims before the WRC subsequent to that, but I think it is fair to say that significant progress has been made, notwithstanding those other claims. I do not want to get into commentary on claims that remain before the WRC.”
“Personal assistants are employed usually under fixed-term contracts and, therefore, do not get paid outside of term time, nor do the public servants under section 19 of the ETB Act. In early 2024 my officials embarked on a review of the hourly rate of pay of personal assistants employed by ETBs. That followed discussions between a representative group of personal assistants and one of my predecessors. I think the Deputy may have been involved in that at the time.”
“I will pick up on the WRC claim because the Deputy mentioned that as an item of interest. I think the Deputy is well familiar with it, but the position is that ETBs employ staff in some cases to deliver PA services, and the contractual relationship is between the employee and the ETB.”
“I have increased that by 10% this year with the additional €3 million funding I mentioned. Any recommendations that come from that review group that are pertinent to my Department will of course then be actioned. It is also worth noting that personal assistants provide logistical support to learners with disabilities on PLC courses. As of February of this year, there were approximately 104 PAs employed at the ETBs providing those services.”
“A couple of items arise there. I know personal assistance for students with disabilities is an area of interest the Deputy has raised here a number of times. National policy on personal assistance is being reviewed by the HSE-led personal assistance review group. My Department is not leading that particular aspect of the review. We are very much engaged with it and remain committed to ensuring that students with disabilities can have full access and participation in further and higher education. It is separate from the demonstration project. It is a separate project also looking at how personal assistance can be best utilised within the system. Personal supports are primarily facilitated through the fund for students with disabilities, which is administered by the Higher Education Authority.”
“I have met many groups both in my constituency and around the country, and the point is often made to me that, even with the additional supports and pathways through education, the transition to the workforce can be challenging. There is an intention to encompass further supports for people to make that transition. That is very much on my mind and the Department's mind as we role out this plan further. A key element is to map out and identify the supports required and those that are available for students with disabilities across the education sector. This is the first step to ensure the right resources as regards that mapping exercise to see what is needed, what is there and what is missing. That is a sort of gap analysis that will help to map out where to go to, the next stage.”
“Last year, my Department hosted a national disability symposium in Dublin, bringing together students, families, educators, disabled persons' organisations and other stakeholders to share their experiences and consider further actions that would be appropriate. Following that engagement, the Department commenced a project focused on better supporting students with disabilities. This project is to examine transitions into further and higher education, to map out the supports and services available to students with disabilities within the further and higher education systems and to develop new approaches to supporting students as they move into employment following college. The latter is perhaps a gap at the moment. That transition to the workforce is essential.”
“I am familiar with the issue. The Deputy has engaged with me on it on a number of occasions. He and I met a group of personal assistants during the summer. Supporting learners with disabilities is a core priority for my Department. In the budget just gone I was pleased to be able to invest a further €3 million in support for the fund for students with disabilities as well as an additional €1 million for students with mental health challenges. That was along with many other targeted interventions to help address the cost of college and to support students in the different situations they face.”
“The Deputy mentioned the campaign in that regard. A 31% increase was achieved in two years. That is quite a significant increase by any standard. Another point to note is that as the researchers not classed as workers, they do not pay any tax, PRSI or USC. It is entirely tax-free. That is a corollary to bear in mind on that.”
“I fully support the research and development tax credit of 35%. In fact, I engaged with the then Minister, Paschal Donohoe, to seek it. I think it is really impactful for the research and innovation and advanced knowledge industries. That ultimately is what creates the resources, jobs and enterprise and, indeed, creates the tax intake that allows us to deliver the public good in other ways. Many of our PhD students may well aspire to work for those same institutions when they complete their education, and many of them may do so in actuality. I would not make any assumptions as to the recipients of that funding. I worked in the sector before I was in political life and a number of smaller institutions, including indigenous ones, also availed of those kinds of supports. On the stipend itself, my understanding is that the ask was €25,000.”
“I think 3,000 of the 10,000 students are supported by Research Ireland, 1,000 by other public funders, 2,000 by institutional scholarships from the universities directly, and then 4,000 are funded through the private sector or the employer. There are 4,000 supported by the private sector and 3,000 by Research Ireland and, for the 1,000 supported by other public funders, it is within the discretion of those public funders to choose how to use their funds.”
“One of the first things I changed was the equipment and infrastructure available to them. Just last month, I launched the new Inspire programme. This is a €750 million capital envelope to support research infrastructure and equipment across our higher education institutions. That was a very clear ask of me by the research community and it had long been sought. Coming into the role, it was something I was determined to address as soon as possible, and I was able to secure funding through the national development plan to do that. That is now live. That call is starting and will be opening in the new year. It has been welcomed almost universally across the research sector. In terms of the PhD stipends, the statistics the Deputy mentioned are fair.”
“In terms of the higher education institutions and universities, how they use and distribute their core funding is at their own discretion. They are autonomous institutions and those in the private sector will have their own arrangements they enter into with individuals freely. There is a degree of discretion on those but certainly the agencies I fund and control are required to meet the €25,000 stipend and I understand that they are doing so.”
“This review exercise was the first time that PhD provision in Ireland was comprehensively reviewed. For those PhD students in receipt of stipends from national competitive funding agencies outside the remit of my Department, the level of stipend awarded is at the discretion of each funder and its parent Department. Put simply, those agencies under my remit and my Department and in receipt of funding from Research Ireland are providing the €25,000 stipend. There may be other funders outside the remit of my Department which have their own arrangements, but certainly they are all encouraged, at least, to reach that threshold. There are also institutional scholarship supports, sometimes provided by the higher education institution, primarily, and of course there are some private sector sponsorships, etc., as well.”
“Under budget 2025, additional funding was announced for Research Ireland in order to increase its PhD stipend level to €25,000, representing an increase of 31% in just two years. This announcement builds upon my Department's consistent focus and progression on this issue. That came into effect from 1 January this year and, given the significant growth in such a short space of time, I have no immediate plans to increase the figure further. The €25,000 was the ask very recently. It was a significant increase on what was there previously and we have done that now. As of this year, we have reached that €25,000 figure for PhD stipends. My Department has also implemented the recommendations of the independent review of State supports for PhD researchers for an optimum stipend level of €25,000.”
“We have had some really constructive conversations with stakeholders in the North and the UK on things like UCAS and the CAO, in respect of which there is some alignment, and in terms of A levels versus the leaving certificate and so on. There are a number of differences but I think differences can be overcome, and these are details that we can work through. I would not want that to stop and I know the Deputy is of the same mind. It is very important that we just work out how to make it work, and that we go on to make it work. That will be a good day's work when that happens.”
“As I have said previously, the Deputy and I share those aspirations in every sense. The Deputy mentioned the mechanics of how we develop the working patterns between Dundalk IT and Queen's University, and referred more broadly to apprenticeships on the island. On apprenticeships more broadly, I launched the first-ever all-island apprenticeship, namely, the accounting technician programme, along with the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin. We recently worked with the Minister for the Economy, Caoimhe Archibald MLA, in the Northern Ireland Executive, and I was very pleased to be able to do so. We have had a number of very positive engagements at the North-South Ministerial Council. Not so long ago, I also attended the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly in Surrey, which I think the Deputy attended as well.”
“It is important to restate that DkIT will remain within the existing legal and governance frameworks, remaining an active part of our technological and higher education system. There are some alignments that need to be made there but the proposal is certainly moving in the right direction and going well.”
“I thank the Deputy for that. Discussions are ongoing and intensifying between the two institutions. My Department and I remain in close contact with both institutions. From the early stages, I indicated my full and strong support and shared ambition to develop and progress this partnership. My understanding is the institutions intend to sign heads of agreement this month. This is happening now; it is not an abstract, down-the-road initiative. I am particularly pleased and supportive of this. I communicated to the colleges that it was my wish that this progress with pace. The engagement will continue into the new year in 2026. There are a number of toll gates we will go through. I expect to be in a position to bring legislation before the House at that stage. There are some technical details that we need to work through.”
“I hope the Deputy and his party will support that, as I imagine they will, and that others in the House will support it too. There is a very exciting and ambitious timetable for it, which I certainly intend to do my best to work with.”
“It will further strengthen regional development in the north east and along the Dublin-Belfast corridor. It also places a full university education within reach of students in the north east, perhaps filling a gap that may have existed previously between Dublin and Belfast. With this partnership, university education will be accessible and available to students in Dundalk. Of course, student mobility skills development and shared learning are part of that as well. It is worth noting that the proposal will see DkIT, while becoming a college of Queen's University, remain an autonomous, self-governing university college and retain its rights. It is part of a new model within the Irish higher education landscape. It is a slightly different model from other technological universities and my expectation is it will require legislation.”
“I was delighted to recently announce this partnership and my support for it. I brought the proposal to the Government to receive all-of-government support and endorsement for it. It is a very exciting and historic proposal. This will be the first all-island university, which speaks to many of our aspirations about our shared island and all-island dimensions. It is a programme that will enhance both DkIT and Queen's University. The partnership will include an integration of DkIT within the academic framework of Queen's University, ensuring that students studying in Dundalk will graduate with a Queen's University award. It also envisages a joint research and innovation centre on the Dundalk campus, which will be a close collaboration with enterprise and industry as part of a research and industry foundational partnership.”
“That would include learning opportunities across volunteering, youth and sport, as well as the purely educational aspects and promote co-operation between institutions. It will encourage institutions to engage in universities alliances and other European initiatives that bring universities together at European level. This is a positive development, which will deepen and strengthen the programme. I am very much committed to supporting it.”
“The Deputy is absolutely right and I completely agree. The point is well made, particularly now, when we have the shadow of war on the Continent and tensions internationally. Perhaps, we do not have the same community of nations that we might traditionally have enjoyed. It is all the more important, therefore, that we better understand each other, communicate and exchange with one another, and have shared experiences, including the pan-European experience Erasmus can afford. The shape of the new programme proposes to merge Erasmus with the European Solidarity Corps, which will create a new single integrated programme that will go beyond the university experience, viable though that is, to also incorporate volunteering and community activities.”
“I mentioned a few moments ago the Queen's University Belfast and Dundalk IT collaboration under which we will have the first all-island university very soon. The next question goes to that issue and I will speak more on it when we reach it. I will respond to Deputy Timmins shortly.”
“I will take Deputy Burke's question first and then come back to Deputy Timmins. Regarding the Northern Ireland dimension, I am glad the Deputy raised this important point. Unfortunately, with the UK leaving the European Union, Northern Ireland is not eligible for Erasmus programmes. However, the Government supports Northern Ireland students to allow them to continue to participate. Northern Ireland students are funded by the Republic to partake in Erasmus. We have done that repeatedly in recent years to ensure students there have the opportunities available to students elsewhere on the island. I am proud we are able to do that on an all-Ireland basis. I take the Deputy's point about the potential for a placement in a Northern university and vice versa .”
“It has played a central role in promoting mobility, strengthening intercultural understanding and expanding exciting opportunities for learners. Last year, more than 6,200 Irish higher education students participated in Erasmus, with strong engagement across schools, vocational education and training, youth and sport. I expect that trend to continue in an upward direction as the programme evolves. There is an emerging shape of the new Erasmus programme from 2028 to 2034.”
“The goal is to develop high-quality adaptable training and skills systems that strengthen the EU's competitiveness. When people travel the mind broadens, the experience is wider, people are generally richer for the experience and bring back an enhanced skill set as well as relationships and networking that stand to them in due course. It is part of our competitiveness as a Union and a Continent. There are also measures such as the European universities alliances. I had the pleasure of opening the conference these had in UCC earlier this year. The alliances also create long-term partnerships and deepen collaboration across the sector. Erasmus+ remains one of the key European Union initiatives with significant impact.”
“I am glad the Deputy raised this programme because it is extremely important. It has served us and our students and educational institutions well. I was in Europe on Tuesday at the Competitiveness Council. I attended the research and innovation meetings. I will be back in the near future attending the education Council at which Erasmus will be on the agenda. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, recently attended a meeting of a similar nature, in Copenhagen I think, where some of these discussions took place. The current Erasmus+ programme supports education, training, youth and sport and aligns closely with the objectives of the European Education Area as well as the ambitions set out in the European Commission's Union of Skills communications of March this year.”
“I will leave my colleague the Minister for Health to answer more comprehensively on the issues the Deputy raised regarding public health provision in Cork and the south west and how dental places fit into that. My Department is working to increase the number of places and courses and invest in the equipment and facilities in UCC, RCSI, Trinity College and elsewhere to ensure there is a sufficient and expanded pipeline of dental graduates coming on stream. I expect many of those will feed into public sector provision and increase the quality and availability of dental care in Cork, which I know is a key issue for all families. That is something we are committed to doing.”