James Lawless
Kildare North · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“I am always open to feedback. The academics and authors of that report are entitled to their views, as are others. I just do not share all of their conclusions. As the Deputy said, the consultant spending was before my time. A lot of it was before the Department even existed.”
“More broadly, and this is something I think there is great potential to do more on, we are also promoting modern methods of construction, MMC, so we can embrace 2D or 3D models where they are either partially assembled off site and then brought to the location or almost fully assembled and the finished kit is brought into place.”
“In the energy space, that includes a commitment of €10 billion to enhance the grid capacity, because we need to be able to transit the energy as well as generate it, the workforce and the talent to do that - everything from retrofitting to green energy technicians and renewable energy engineers.”
“The capital funding envelop available to me is the mechanism through which I fund these projects, which is significant with €4.55 billion allocated across my Department for capital projects. SETU is the relevant institute in the south east, and it has multiple campuses, including a presence in the Xcelerate Centre at St.”
“I will recap on some of the measures I have introduced already because it is important to put them on the record again. In the previous budget, I was pleased to introduce the first ever permeant fee cut for students since free fees were introduced almost 30 years ago with a €500 permanent reduction.”
“Exactly. That is why we have a record €4.5 billion commitment across the sector. Regarding student facilities, there is the likes of the bundle 2 PPP programme which enhances student facilities on university campuses across the country.”
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“The planned commencement of 40 places for this September has received a significant boost with the opinion of reasonable assurance from the Veterinary Council of Ireland inspection of the bachelor of veterinary medicine programme. What that opinion of reasonable assurance means is that the regulatory body has now said that it is satisfied that this course passes muster, something that was expected, but which we could not take for granted would come through. My officials have been engaging intensively on this, and we have now received that assurance. This means the students are guaranteed it will commence as planned this September. It is a very important step, which will be welcomed across SETU and ATU for the reasons I have mentioned.”
“A number of years ago we realised that there was a huge demand for veterinary places and many of our students were leaving the country to study in Poland and further abroad - some in Edinburgh and some in eastern Europe - and we needed to up the ante in veterinary course provision. Two new veterinary schools are being provided now, one in ATU and one in SETU, with 40 students in each. The SETU programme will be supported by the Glassworks site in Waterford, but also through Teagasc's Kildalton College, which operates a working farm. That reflects international best practice between the academic laboratory experience at the Glassworks site and the practical hands-on farm knowledge at Kildalton. There is some good news to report on that.”
“Well done to all the winners and commiserations to all who did not make it over the line. The ongoing success of Offaly hurling is to be celebrated in Offaly but perhaps to be feared in other counties in Leinster. We will wish the Deputy well for now, but we will see where it goes. Before I speak about Kildalton College, I compliment the team in Mount Bellew Agricultural College in County Galway, which I visited with Deputy Albert Dolan and Senator Anne Rabbitte recently. It is also hosting the veterinary course in ATU, which is coming on very well. Both of the courses in Mount Bellew and Kildalton are part of the new veterinary expansion.”
“I will absolutely be keeping a watchful eye on that, as Ireland assumes the Presidency of that Council, to ensure the budget is maximised for Irish students.”
“I very much take the Deputy's points on board. He is right about the contribution to the economy that arises from having the student inflow here as well as the visiting families and so forth. When I was growing up, my own house was home to many visiting students of many nationalities on different courses. It also provides for a richer rounder experience for the host families and the students. Earlier we were talking about the age of AI, digital skills, skills gaps and some of the automated tasks being carried out now. A student who has travelled, experienced other cultures, and acquired language and communication skills will be much more resilient in the face of AI and changing digital transformation and the new world we are entering into. I agree with the Deputy that it is an extremely important progression.”
“It is also very much a goal for the State and for me to seek maximum funding for the Horizon research programme envelope. Some €175 billion is bracketed in at the moment, a very significant figure. That is available to Irish researchers, including small and medium enterprises, as well as the academics.”
“It would be regrettable if that scenario were to come to pass. I understand the concern and it is well voiced. We are at the partial general agreement, meaning that specific parts of the proposal have been agreed. Ultimately the budget has yet to be agreed and that is what we have to negotiate with our colleagues in the European Parliament as we move on to the tripartite stage. I will be meeting some of the relevant committee chairs in the European Parliament and some of the members of those committees. I will engage with them further in July, I think at the Strasbourg session, to try to move this along. However, the fact that we reached partial general agreement yesterday is critical because we could not have opened negotiations had we not done that. That will be part of the overall MFF negotiations.”
“It is not necessary to be a student to be involved in Erasmus+; young people may be involved in many other strands of public life. They will have the opportunity to exchange with other European nations, centred around European values and have the experience of living and participating abroad, which is to be welcomed. It was very good news coming from Brussels yesterday.”
“I will be privileged to chair those debates over the next six months. We will be taking Erasmus+ into tripartite negotiations with the European Parliament to progress that. That is very positive and I am excited about the opportunities for us and the opportunity for Ireland to put our stamp on the Erasmus+ scheme when we bring those negotiations in. One of the plus points of the new Erasmus+ programme is that it opens up integration to the European Solidarity Corps. As the Deputy will be aware, the Erasmus+ programme has been largely an academic college-based exchange. We are broadening that out to include community programmes, sporting programmes and youth programmes. That is really important because it widens civic participation.”
“We have been engaging intensively with European partners on the future of Erasmus+. My officials are working closely at the technical level and I am working at the ministerial and political level to advance negotiations on this important programme. Good progress has been made under both the Danish and Cypriot Presidencies. As the Deputy knows, the Cypriot Presidency comes to a close at the end of June. I was in Brussels yesterday at the Education Council. I am pleased to advise the Deputy and the House that we reached agreement among education ministers at the Council on the partial general approach for the next Erasmus+ programme. That is a really significant milestone. The partial general approach is the agreed framework among officials and across ministers at Council to now take that forward to what we call the tripartite negotiations.”
“It is because these are autonomous institutions that manage their own course and manage their own systems within it. The Deputy is welcome to correspond with them, if he has not done so already, to see what information he can derive. Every student who wanted a course, bar one, got into a course. In the latest CAO round, there was one student in one course in entire country. It is regrettable and I would prefer if no students missed out. I think that we can agree that out of 108,000 students, one student missing out on a place is very regrettable for that individual and I would have preferred if it had not happened. That is why I am increasing the courses by 1,100 place this year alone. The problem is certainly not of the scale the Deputy wishes to depict.”
“Not to my knowledge. My Department does not collect data on the number of international students or the share of places offered through the CAO on a course-by-course basis. That falls under the remit of the individual autonomous higher education institutions and they determine that annually. The Deputy may wish to correspond with them to make his own inquiries. I reiterate my point because the scenario he is depicting is suggesting that some students have been displaced by international students coming into the same course.”
“There were then two students who had the same points but they were not as high as other students who got into the course. One always, of course, feels sympathy for the student in that situation, but it is not the case that students on maximum points were displaced. It is students that did not get maximum points. Put simply, the students with the highest points got the places. In the case of students on lower points, at some point there was a cut-off. Unfortunately, some students missed out, but that is the way across any course in the entire CAO.”
“I am just clarifying. The Deputy's question asked about the courses in which maximum leaving certificate points did not guarantee admission due to demand and he has moved on now to high-points courses. The difference between maximum and high-points is that it is a meritocracy. Rightly or wrongly, the CAO system awards courses on the basis of points. A student had maximum points and missed out on a place, which arose in one instance this year for a course that I mentioned. The other scenario I talked about is where the students that took up the course were students who had higher points than students who missed out. There were students who had the maximum points and students who had points less than that, ultimately, over descending order, until they got to the last place on the course.”
“These are dental science, management science and information systems, dentistry, management science and dental science. Going back over the past number of years, those were the courses. Obviously, there is a strong pattern. Briefly, to talk about dental science and dentistry, since it is one of the courses where that has happened in recent years, I am adding another 35 dental beds or, I should say, "chairs", which is what we need for dental places, through the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, RCSI. I opened 20 of them in Sandyford earlier this year and a further 15 are coming on stream next year.”
“Where that happens, the CAO applies a system of random selection. Going specifically to the Deputy's question as to how many courses did this happen in this year, there was one course where a student was denied entry because of random selection at 625 points. There was a second course but it was not on the first round; it was on the second round. All students on the first round that sought a place received a place. There was one course, that I am aware of, where this happened on the first round. That is the scenario there. On the courses where it has happened, there is a pattern, if you look back over the past number of years, in terms of the courses that have a 625 points target and use random selection in the final rounds.”
“As the Deputy will be aware, under legislation, the Irish higher education institutions are autonomous in their decisions and the processes they follow in relation to admissions, and rightly so. They operate without political influence in terms of their admission criteria and enrolment. Both public and private institutions, all use the CAO, which is well understood, to centrally process the applications for most undergraduate programmes. Further information on how that works, including statistics and data from previous years' offers, is all publicly available on the CAO website, if the Deputy wishes to refer to that. Based on publicly available data, my Department has identified the higher education courses where attaining the maximum points from the leaving certificate did not guarantee admission due to high demand.”
“That allows the technological universities to enter into agreements with providers to book out large blocks of beds in a long-term fashion in a way that commits them to expenditure in the long term that is a form of borrowing, but one that is done with full State support. That was an important measure that was called for. It is one I was keen to ensure was included in the strategy, which it is.”
“I am conscious of this and I have met all the technological universities, TUs, on it. It is a programme for Government commitment and it is one I have given effect to through the student accommodation strategy because the strategy includes provision for nomination agreements. Nomination agreements are technical arrangements, but they allow the technological university to take on a contingent liability upon its balance sheet which could be construed as a State liability. It is something that we are supporting through the student accommodation agreement. That has involved work with not only my Department but also the Departments of Finance and public expenditure. Those discussions have been ongoing with both Ministers. We have managed to secure within the accommodation strategy provision to do exactly that.”
“Additionally, there is planning permission in the system in Cork working its way through for another 500 beds already. Those are positive numbers to consider. That will provide an additional 2,200 beds when those come on stream. I expect there will be many more coming behind that with the new sites that are being identified. In addition to that, I should point to the beds available under the rent-a-room scheme - 926 beds for MTU Cork and 72 beds being offered at UCC at the moment.”
“I totally agree with the Deputy. We need to see significant progress and we need to see it soon. On the theme of progress, we saw 206 beds with a commencement notice issued only last month in Cork. There are 3,000 around the country since I launched the strategy approximately six weeks ago. Approximately 206 of those are in Cork, and they are badly needed. There are another 1,700 beds in Cork with planning granted which I hope will become viable through the strategy. There were a number of beds at sites around the country where planning was granted but where inquiries took place at the stage of planning. They were not progressing for various reasons. The strategy, as the Deputy knows, includes a number of viability levers to assist with that and move those on to construction and move those forward.”
“Part of that is the extension of what was a TU, accommodation programme across the traditional universities and what we are calling the higher education institutions student accommodation programme, HSAP. That has been up and running now since we launched the strategy. I am pleased to advise the Deputy that there are three locations being targeted in the first wave, namely, Dublin, Galway and Cork. Cork is up and running already. We have had extensive engagement and we have had a number of inquiries coming in already. That is going well. It is something I am keen to move on at all possible expedition to ensure we begin to deliver those much-needed beds for the students.”
“One is the viability challenge and incentivising the development at scale of student accommodation and large, high-quality student developments, ideally on campus lands or in and around campus. This will be supported through the strategy and through a number of measures within it. There is also a focus on affordability, with €176 million in new supports being placed in things like the maintenance grants for non-adjacent students and a range of other measures to make it somewhat more affordable for students to be able to pay their rents, effectively, in the different developments. Of course, both MTU and UCC have been engaged in that with me and my officials. My Department held a briefing for both universities very recently to walk through the new student strategy and explain how that is going to work.”
“I am aware of the Deputy's interest in this. I am pleased to be able to advise the Deputy that I have met the presidents of both UCC and MTU on a number of occasions. I have also visited both institutions on a number of occasions and, indeed, I will do so again this week. I am very aware of how the supply and affordability of accommodation is impacting students in Cork and more generally across the country. That is one of the reasons I was very pleased to be able to publish the national student accommodation strategy, which sets out the pathway to make higher education more accessible by addressing two critical challenges. There are two pillars of that strategy, as the Deputy is probably aware.”
“I am also working with my team to look at the micro-credentials delivered through Springboard+, Skillnet and similar courses to have a wider range of offerings, with greater subsidies available for learners who might want to take them up. Some might be in employment, some may wish to go independently, but I am looking at greater subvention of those courses to make them even more affordable than they already are. Those are two measures. The Higher Education Authority has published guidelines around the use of AI in education to make sure that student competence is still coming through both in terms of testing but also in terms of the competencies and skills that are being taught to the student.”
“There are a couple of things. I recently launched a website called aiready.ie . The Deputy might have tried it out. I urge anyone who has not already to do so. That website is specifically targeted at short AI familiarity skills. It is not necessarily building up to expert user level but building up an awareness of AI and how it works - how it can be used, for example, in a small business, for personal use, planning a holiday packing list, organising an event, etc. It is the intention that it will help with that. That is very much the first phase of it. That will ramp up over time, with multiple courses added to it.”
“As I noted recently, there is a concern that some firms may be beginning to put a brake on graduate recruitment and might be thinking that AI can replace certain junior jobs. However, there is recognition that we need the senior people and experienced people in every organisation. If people stop hiring at the entry level, they never get to the experienced layer beyond that. It is something employers really need to take stock of.”
“The Deputy is exactly right. One of the interesting outputs of the inaugural skills round-table I held about six weeks, which had the accommodation sectors at it, was that there was a common theme. Regardless of semiconductors, biosciences, pharmaceuticals or construction, there was a common theme. They said they want to be able to hire graduates, trainees and skilled workers who have broader skills, such as communication skills, teamwork skills and the ability to work on a team, analytical skills and strategic skills and the ability to make judgment calls on a particular set of facts. That is one thing the computer will never be able to replace - that human intuition and experience and that unique set of circumstances that has brought us all to where we are.”
“We will be bringing the construction employers into the room and looking at the trades, apprentices, engineers, architects, town planners, etc., and asking whether they are receiving the skills, graduates and competencies they as employers require from the training system and skills system, especially at a time when construction of housing is our number one goal as a Government and, indeed, more broadly across infrastructure, building out our railways, grids, ports and energy supply. We have a huge construction challenge, so it is particularly timely. The next event I am planning for the month after will look at the impact of AI on the professional workforce, consultancy firms, accounting, legal firms and so on. That deep dive will bring employers around the table to have a solid engagement.”
“That would be a real-time engine to see what skills employers are seeking and, indeed, what is on the move and what is going in the other direction. I have also commenced a series of skills round-tables, where I bring together employers from different sectors along with the training agencies, SOLAS, the HEA, the ETBI and the different higher education institute and university associations. That conversation I am having will, at the next event on the 27th of this month, focus on construction skills. The Minister, Deputy Browne, and Minister of State, Deputy Harkin, are joining me for that as well.”
“I thank the Deputy very much. He mentioned AI and skills shortages and understanding the new trends that are emerging in higher education and across training our graduates and, indeed, our apprentices. That is an absolute priority for me and the Department. We are doing a lot of work on skills and identifying skills needs and skills gaps, working through SOLAS, the National Skills Council, the expert group on future skills needs and other groups and agencies. I have done a couple of things in recent times. One is that we have set up the national skills observatory, which is data driven and, effectively, a database for the State to be able to plug in searches and see what patterns have emerged in terms of job vacancies, job advertisements, skills needs and employer reports.”
“It would actually be a backdoor to the household or family suddenly having their income threshold nearly doubled. I know the Deputy would agree that is not desirable either because we have to have a progressive, fair system that targets supports to those who need them the most. I know that is maybe an extreme example, but there is logic to this and how it is calculated. Originally, the idea was to discourage students from working during term time. That is why it was applied to holiday periods. That is more relaxed now and they can choose to work weekends if they wish. There has to be some level at which it is set, however.”
“As I said at the outset, I worked all through college at a variety of things through weekends, evenings in some cases, and all through my summers and, indeed, often Christmas and Easter holidays as well. I would make the point to the Deputy that there is nothing stopping students from doing that. Students can work, and they can choose. It equates roughly to Christmas holidays, Easter holidays and summer holidays. However, if students want to say they are going to work every weekend instead or work one part of the year and not another, it is entirely up to them. A threshold of €8,830 has been imposed now. To work it through, if we were to take that away and say there is no threshold, theoretically, a student could earn not €8,000 but €80,000 or €100,000.”
“There is also the student Leap card and the young adult Leap card to use on public transport and, of course, there are the €500 cut to student fees, which is permanent, and all of the increases to grants, particularly the non-adjacent grants for students who have to travel that bit farther. However, there is a cost to the State. It was calculated last year that exempting all students' earnings would cost about €26 million. To put that into perspective, that same amount could pay for a 10% increase in all maintenance grants or could increase all income thresholds by 10%. There are choices to be made regarding whether we increase grants or thresholds or disregard student earnings to a greater extent.”
“They do not need to leave Kerry any more at all, because we have a fine university in Tralee with MTU. I visited it recently with the Minister, Deputy Foley, and Deputy Cahill and we saw it in action. Professor Maggie Cusack and the then chairperson, Jimmy Deenihan, welcomed us to the facility. The university is providing world-class services. If students do want to leave Kerry, however, there are course options available to them. I know it is expensive, and I talked earlier about the recent cuts we have implemented. There is a €750 million package to assist with the cost of travel, in terms of excise cuts and many other measures.”
“Next, I will take all those different requests and publish them as an options paper and have a costing and impact analysis against each one. We can make decisions then and I would welcome the input from those in the Houses who are interested in the brief, as to which options are preferable to others and why people believe that to be the case. I will engage in good faith with Deputies in the House as we approach the budget to consider those options.”
“We cannot do everything so we try to look at how we can approach something with targeted measures. This was one of the ones that was important, even if it was only 5%. It was something I was conscious to do in order to keep student earnings in line with inflation and allowing that to be taken into account. Students should not be penalised for going out to work outside of term time. We have what we call an options paper on the cost of college, which is an analysis of engagement with students. I had a meeting with a number of students' unions and other stakeholders recently in Portlaoise. We examined the different asks they had regarding grants, fees, thresholds, student accommodation and the earnings disregard for students' income at weekends or over term breaks.”
“I worked all the way through second level and third level and afterwards. Then I ended up studying while I was working, so I did it both ways round. I totally appreciate the industriousness and the necessity in many cases for students to work through their education. How we have it structured is that under the SUSI grant scheme, income from employment that represents holiday earnings outside of term time is calculated on the basis of Easter holidays, summer holidays and Christmas holidays. This can be disregarded when calculating the means of the family for the SUSI grant application. In the current budget, we are increasing that from €8,424 to €8,830, which is an increase of about €400, or 5%. That is something I was minded to do. As I said in response to a question earlier, there are a number of choices in each budget.”
“We are undertaking research to understand the demand and availability of both the courses and of students wishing to take them up. We are also examining the inclusion of Irish-medium courses in future expressions of interest. We are running a number of expressions of interest with the HEA at the moment for new course provision in areas like disability, therapies, medicine, veterinary, etc. We will see if we can include Irish as one of those in the future and if there is an option to provide those courses, we will.”
“I know Conradh na Gaeilge well. I will be meeting its representatives in the near future to discuss their submissions and requests. I am very supportive and I hope we can do as much as we can for them. I mentioned some of the actions we are taking. There are a couple of specific actions we are taking to meet the target. We are working with the Department of Education and Youth to examine the transition of students from Irish-language post-primary education because we know there is a huge growth in the bunscoileanna and Gaelscoileanna. The question is how they move on to tertiary education, because we do not want their Irish to fall away when they move to third level education. We are working with the Department of Social Protection on the sectoral working group I mentioned already to see how that can contribute to the targets.”
“We also support clubs and societies in a number of different activities on campuses, outside of the formal learning experience. I am very supportive of that, as is the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin.”
“Níor cheart go mbeadh imní ar an Teachta faoina cuid Gaeilge, táimse ag foghlaim chomh maith. Maith thú as an bhfoghlaim. We will learn together. It is commendable when anyone attempts it. To meet the target, the goal is to have a workforce capable of speaking at least partly as Gaelige, but ideally 20% would have a strong ability and competency. A wide range of courses is available already. Some are fully in Irish, some are partly through Irish and there can be combinations. Course provision is determined by the institutions, because they are academically autonomous. It is not just within na hollscoileanna. I visited an education and training board, ETB, recently that was providing Irish-language education in night classes.”
“I am very committed to this. We will be publishing a national plan for Irish-language public services. This will include research into existing and future demands for Irish-medium tertiary education and then look at how we will roll that out up to 2027.”
“We spoke to a number of the students and educators there about their plans and their ambition to deliver education in the medium of Irish. It is important also that we recognise the difference between cúrsaí sa Ghaeilge and cúrsaí through Gaeilge. Are we teaching Irish or are we teaching other courses through the medium of Irish? Sometimes that distinction is not always picked up on but it is important. We have a very strong ambition, working with the Minister for Rural and Community Development and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Dara Calleary, to reach the goal of 20% of public servants working through the medium of Gaeilge and having it at their disposal. It is something that I am very much committed to and am very much working on. This is why I visited with an Teachta John Connolly and an Comhairleoir Keane at the acadamh in Galway last week.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta McGettigan. Aithníonn mo Roinn an ról tábhachtach atá ag earnáil an oideachais threasaigh maidir le cur chun cinn agus cothabháil na Gaeilge. Tá réimse cúrsaí ar fáil do mhic léinn trí mheán na Gaeilge ar fud na hearnála treasaí. Is iad na hinstitiúidí féin a dhéanann na cinntí sin i gcomhréir lena neamhspleáchas acadúil. Léiríonn anailís a rinne an tÚdarás um Ard-Oideachas le déanaí gur chláraigh 420 mac léinn i gcúrsaí a sholáthraíodh go hiomlán trí mheán na Gaeilge sa bhliain acadúil 2023-24 agus 265 mac léinn eile ag déanamh staidéar i gcúrsaí a sholáthraíodh go páirteach trí mheán na Gaeilge. Den chuid is mó, is i réimse an oideachais iad sin. We need to make further progress on what we have done. I recently visited an t-acadamh in Ollscoil na Gaillimhe Déardaoin seo caite.”
“Where there are situations that come to the Deputy's attention, or to any student's attention, I strongly encourage them to make a report to the RTB and they could be investigated accordingly.”
“I have ongoing engagement with the Minister for housing and we have had a very structured and productive engagement, which led to the student exemption and the protection window of three years being imposed in the new rental protection Acts. I hear the issue that the Deputy raises. I have written directly to one or two institutions where I was made aware of this practice. I advised them that I did not feel this was in the spirit of the law, while within the letter of the law. It certainly is not within the spirit of the law. I made my views very clear on that. The Deputy will understand that there is a limit to the powers I exercise here. They are independent entities. There is legislation in place to govern it but we have a dedicated stand-alone agency, which is the RTB, to investigate any breaches of the laws.”
“We know the way students operate and how they come and go with each academic year. This is in law. It passed through these Houses and is now enshrined in the rental acts, and rightly so.”
“I have indeed sat down with the Minister for housing. We had a number of good interactions over the past year, and particularly when he announced his intention to bring forward the reform of the rent pressure zones and to legislate for that. We immediately engaged on that and we spent a long time working out the details of how that would affect students. One of the outputs of that is the special protection regulation for students specifically stating that student-specific accommodation is safe from the regular rent reset that can happen in other private accommodation when a tenant vacates. Where there is a student apartment, regardless how many students come and go, the rent cannot be reset for a minimum of at least three years. This is a very specific protection measure to save students from the annual reset.”
“This all absolutely comes into the domain of the RTB. The board can impose sanctions of up to €15,000 in fines. Any student or any representative of students who comes across a situation where they believe the RPZs are not being honoured or that the legislation is not being adhered, should make a report to the RTB and have it investigated by that independent body, which is commissioned for that purpose, so the full force of the law can be brought to bear in those situations.”