Mark Ward
Dublin Mid-West · Sinn Féin · Ireland
“The second largest part of the subvention is the €4.1 billion that relates to public debt. Ireland would have no legal liability to pay any part of this. The cost of defence and international relations is approximately €2.7 billion and almost none of this expenditure relates to activity taking place in the North.”
“It has not allowed us, as a nation, to reach our full potential. I also think it is important that we take the current financial situation in the North seriously. It is always disappointing when Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael use the North as a stick to beat Sinn Féin. Even the Labour Party used this tactic this week.”
“It has been a long-standing policy of Sinn Féin to bring waste management back to public control. Privatisation has failed ordinary people. Bin companies act like a cartel in how they raise their prices. When one company increases its price, the rest follow.”
“The total subvention includes central British Government costs allocated to the North that would not be relevant to a united Ireland and here is why. The subvention from the British Exchequer to the North was €16 billion in 2023.”
“I thank Deputy Sherlock for bringing forward this legislation to bring bin collections back to public control. I am disappointed but not surprised that the Government is opposing this legislation. Fine Gael has a long history and policy of privatising public services.”
“We have a situation that allows multiple bin trucks to operate on the same street. On my road there could be three different companies coming down the road, sometimes at the same time. This goes against everything we are trying to achieve to make waste collection more environmentally friendly.”
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“That is despite a huge increase in population in the area, with the building of Clonburris and the Adamstown strategic development zone. On 31 December 2024, there were 754 gardaí assigned to my area. As of February 2026, last month, that had dropped to 742. Therefore, despite the Minister's rhetoric that he was to increase Garda numbers, the reality is that in areas like mine, things are going backwards. There has actually been a reduction. The public knows that the high visibility of gardaí in areas works to deter and detect criminal activity. So-called antisocial behaviour, which is the bane of many a community, decreases simply by having a Garda presence in an area. I will give an example of how effective it can be. Last year, I was inundated by residents from a particular part of my constituency contacting me.”
“I thank Deputy Kelly for bringing forward this motion. I listened to him on the radio this morning when I was on my way in and I was in full agreement with him that the further you move away from Leinster House, the fewer gardaí you will see. High-visibility policing is effective. I have noticed an increase in the visibility of gardaí on the beat in Dublin city and that is to be welcomed. However, as you move out from the city, you do not see anywhere near the same numbers of gardaí on the streets. When you get to areas like mine in Dublin Mid-West, that visibility is even less. In fact, in Dublin metropolitan region west, which covers Clondalkin, Lucan, Ronanstown and Rathcoole Garda stations, there are fewer gardaí today than there were in 2024.”
“The fact that she has managed to do it is a testament and it gives me a little bit of hope that if we just keep plugging away, we might get something through as well.”
“This is a real-life example of how minor convictions can follow someone for life. No matter how much an individual has grown as a person or how much they have contributed to society in the meantime, previous convictions can follow them. Sinn Féin supports the Bill. The next challenge is to get it onto the agenda of the justice committee. It is to be hoped it will progress from there. I look forward to any further debates. With Government support, I would like to see this progress over the next couple of months. Again, I thank Senator Ruane for the dedicated work she has done to get the Bill to this stage. I have introduced legislation, as has Deputy Gannon. It is really difficult from the Opposition to get anything to this Stage.”
“They went out weekly and took part in the all-Ireland event, probably up in Kiltipper. What should have been one of the proudest movements of their lives quickly turned sour. The majority of the men’s team were refused visas to travel to America. The result was that for the very first time since the inception of the Homeless World Cup, our men’s team was not able to participate. The reason they were not allowed into America related to minor convictions they picked up when they were affected by addiction, homelessness or maybe just as a result of being from areas of disadvantage. One of the coaches who dedicates his time to looking after these lads was also refused entry. He had a conviction from decades ago, not last week or last year. He has been giving his life to give these lads a better chance.”
“The competition is recognised and supported by the FAI. The players who represent their country abroad at the Homeless World Cup receive international caps. The caps are the same as the ones Roy Keane, Robbie Keane and Paul McGrath received. It is the dream of every boy and young woman interested in soccer to represent their country, and it is a fantastic achievement for the players who are selected. The Ireland team’s best result was in 2005 when they finished fifth in the competition in Scotland. It has completed all over the world, including in Korea and Africa. The players have represented their country with pride. There has even been a film made. Colin Farrell made a documentary, which was very good, about it a couple of years ago. In 2023, the Homeless World Cup was held in America. The players went through all their trials.”
“Sean Kavanagh and his team give people who have experienced homelessness or addiction an opportunity to play football weekly. This culminates in an all-Ireland event, which, as the Minister of State knows, is held every year in Kiltipper is in his constituency. Teams from all over the State play in the tournament, and there is an all-Ireland champion at the end of it. During that process, there is also an opportunity to represent your country by travelling abroad and playing for the Irish team at the Homeless World Cup. Players only get this opportunity once. That is to give everybody a fair chance. If you represent your country one time, that is your chance gone and it is someone else's turn. I have trained with the lads every so often and know that the standard of football is really high.”
“This happened all the time, so we used to have a game to see whose turn it was to get stopped and searched. We would have nothing apart from our football boots with us; it was just a part of growing up in the area. Due to the number of searches taking place now, you are going to come across a lot more people who may have, say, drugs for personal use in their possession. If a young person gets a charge for personal drug use, it can follow them for the remainder of their lives, whether that is in the context of job opportunities, travel or housing. I will give an example. I have been advocate for the Irish homeless football team for a long time. I referred people to the team over the years. Senator Ruane did the same.”
“Young people from my area, at different times in their lives and on the basis of their current circumstances, will make choices. The choices they make at those times may affect them as they get older. Levels of addiction in areas like mine are also disproportionately higher than in other areas. When a person does not have the opportunity to remove themselves physically from a disadvantaged area, drink and drugs often give them that opportunity. It is not called getting out of your head for nothing, and it can give a person a brief break from trauma. Something communities like mine experience a lot more than other more affluent communities is being stopped and searched. When I was growing up in north Clondalkin, we used to play a game. I would be going to the shop for my mother when I was young and I would be stopped and searched.”
“In the course of a debate not that long ago, I mentioned that parts of my area – the area I grew up in – are going backwards on the Pobal deprivation index. It is one of the few areas in Dublin that is regressing instead of progressing. The issue that underlies everything in areas like mine is poverty. It is not just poverty of finances; it is poverty of opportunity and hope. One thing we are not poor in is trauma. Trauma is often intergenerational as a result of the fact that it is historical State-inflicted trauma. I am going back here to the industrial schools, the Christian Brothers, the Magdalen laundries and the mother and baby homes. You can see the outcomes of that intergenerational trauma in areas like mine. The data would indicate that communities like mine are disproportionately affected by crime.”
“I was involved in similar lines of work and in the same organisations as Senator Ruane in the past ,and we came across an awful lot of people who could have done with this Bill. I thank Deputy Gannon for bringing the Bill to the floor of the Dáil. He was right to acknowledge his staff because they often go unseen in the work they do for us. I was going to say that they make us look good, but they do well to make me look good. Anyway, I acknowledge the work they have done. The purpose of the Bill is to allow a broader range of minor convictions to become spent after a proportionate rehabilitative period. This will make it easy for people who have moved on from past offences to access employment, education, housing and other opportunities without lifelong stigma. I am from an area of high disadvantage.”
“I thank the Minister of State for taking the time to debate this. I welcome the Government's support for the Bill and look forward to debating any amendments on Committee Stage. That is the proper way to do business with the Opposition when a Bill comes forward that the Government does not wholeheartedly agree with because it gives us a chance to discuss amendments. I thank Senator Ruane for the work she has done to bring this legislation to this point. The matter to which it relates is something she is very passionate about. It was mentioned the Bill was introduced in 2018. It is now 2026; we are getting there. It is testament to Senator Ruane's perseverance and tenacity that it has reached this point. I suggest that this Bill was in the making well before 2018.”
“They may have been treated with electroconvulsive therapy, ECT, for example, and may not have liked the experience. They may then get themselves to a place where they are okay and are able to make an advance healthcare directive. However, I am unsure whether that advance healthcare directive they can make for their future healthcare would still be in place because at one time there was a lacuna between the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) Act 2015 and the Mental Health Bill. Has that lacuna been resolved? One thing I hate to see is somebody beside me not having the same rights as I have just because they have a mental health issue and I have a physical health issue. If that could be addressed, it would be much appreciated.”
“At the moment, as usual, I feel invincible but I do not know whether that is going to be the same tomorrow or next year and this is something I need to look at myself on a personal basis to make sure the care I receive in the future is the care I want to receive. That is great for me, but a two-tier system may be developing. Perhaps the Minister of State can answer some of the questions because people who have mental health difficulties may not have the same ability to make that advance healthcare directive. For example, a person who has been involuntarily detained may have the ability to make an advance healthcare directive. I have met a number of people over the years who have been involuntarily detained in a mental health institution.”
“We need to use this time to look at what can be done. We need to properly resource the Legal Aid Board. I was at a justice committee meeting last week and we heard how under pressure the Legal Aid Board is at the moment and how much pressure it is going to be under in the future given other things it is dealing with that it has not dealt with before, for example immigration cases. We also need to see the full resources in place for the National Advocacy Service and the Decision Support Service. A part of this Bill that I have a personal opinion on, because it affects me on a personal basis, is the ability to make advance healthcare directives. The Minister of State will be aware that I have multiple sclerosis. I have been threatening for a number of years to make an advanced healthcare directive.”
“In the last term, I was a member of the mental health subcommittee and we dealt with the progress of the Assisted Decision-Making (Capacity) (Amendment) Act 2022. In fairness, the committee did its due diligence, and we saw some of the issues we are seeing here today in relation to the timelines that were put in place. As we speak today, there are over 1,000 cases outstanding. That means 1,000 people who are currently wards of courts are facing a cliff edge. To me, this is just bad planning by the Government. It also shows a lack of foresight by allowing this cliff edge to develop. Can the Minister of State tell me how many of these over 1,000 people are minors? What plans are in place to tackle the root causes that have led to the court backlog? This Bill does nothing to address the root causes of delays, which are significant.”
“I want to take a second to commend the other advocates who have been calling for a statutory public inquiry into spina bifida and scoliosis services. I cautiously welcomed this back in November and the reason for that was because parents have been let down so many times. We are looking to see what the terms of reference are. We need to see that Nayagam report published because that could lead to the better terms of references that have been called for. I know there are legal issues there, but the Minister has been sitting on it for a while and I would like to see it addressed.”
“He was removed from the critical waiting list without his parents' knowledge. Have his parents been given a reason at this stage? I raised this last November. Have they been given a reason at this stage as to why he was taken off that critical waiting list? He was not treated well. He only lived nine and a half years. He spent 33 months deteriorating in pain, not being able to do the things he wanted to do due to his pain level. His parents had to watch him deteriorate. When he finally got the surgery he really needed, tragically he only lived for another short eight months. It is very important that parents like Harvey's, and others who have been directly impacted by years of false promises and mistreatment, are at the heart of any public inquiry and must be in partnership in this. Anything else will not do justice for Harvey.”
“It stops people in their tracks as they are walking down the street when they see the beautiful smile that young boy had. It is like a ray of sunshine on the road. It is heartbreaking to think of this horrible loss of life. Six weeks ago, Gillian and Stephen marked what should have been Harvey's tenth birthday. Harvey had a seven-year wait for scoliosis surgery, and this sparked outrage across the country. He sadly passed away in July, following years of pain and breathing difficulties. Prior to his passing, Harvey's spine had reached a life-threatening 130° curve, which pressed down on his ribcage and put pressure on his heart and lungs. If anybody has seen the video of Harvey trying to breathe, it is another heartbreaking instance and a very visual example. It captured the emotions of the nation. Harvey was let down so many times.”
“Over the years, I got to know Gillian Sherratt and Stephen Morrison quite well as they campaigned for the care of their young son, Harvey. They are an ordinary couple who wanted to bring up and raise their family as best they could, but in an extraordinary situation. They welcomed me into their home numerous times over the years. They are neighbours of mine. I did not know them before this campaign, but I would like to think I would have got to know them under different circumstances. Any time I was in their home, I never got to meet Harvey, but I feel like I know him. The reason I did not get to meet him was because he was either too sick or in hospital. However, over the years, I feel I have got to know him. If you go by Harvey's home, there is a lovely tree outside and on that tree, there is a beautiful photograph of Harvey.”
“However, to date no dedicated post person has been assigned by An Post to deliver packages and letters to people living in Seven Mills. That is leading to a hit-and-miss service for them. The proposals for the Clonburris development passed in 2019. I was on the council at the time. Surely An Post knew it was coming. It should have had something in place to ensure the service was not lacking. A number of my family members and friends work directly for An Post, whether in sorting offices or delivering post around the area. They have told me that there have been a few changes in how deliveries are being arranged in the sorting office and being issued to postmen and postwomen. They felt they were not consulted about the changes. Because they were not consulted, it has affected the delivery of post.”
“He said he was not receiving his post in a timely manner. He said he had seen a big decrease in services. I again contacted An Post. In its response, it stated that it was possible that issues such as sickness or absence from work were leading to a delay in delivery services. An Post needs to have a contingency plan when something like that happens. At the moment, not having a sickness absence plan is leading to people not getting or going to vital medical appointments. Another thing missing in An Post is forward planning. Clonburris is a new development in our area and a part of it is an area called Seven Mills. There are going to be over 8,000 homes across the development. A significant number have been tenanted.”
“I have been listening to the debate. I am now the third TD from the Dublin Mid-West constituency to speak on An Post in the past few minutes. We are all on the same page in the area. There is a bit of an issue around the delivery of services in the area. In Dublin in the past ten years alone, 21 post offices have closed. In addition to the closure of post offices, there has also been a poorer standard for the delivery of post. I will give a couple of examples. I was contacted by a resident of Balgaddy in my constituency about not receiving post. I contacted An Post and was informed that there was no particular issue in Balgaddy. I sent a response to my constituent by post. Guess what? My constituent never received it. That tells me straight away that there is an issue. A gentleman in Fettercairn contacted me with the same problem.”
“Sometimes bureaucracy gets in the way of a common-sense and even cost-effective approach. Will the Taoiseach speak to the Department and ask it to consider this alternative, common-sense approach?”
“I have been contacted by dozens of parents of children attending St. Mary's Boys National School in Lucan. The school has been approved for a project to deliver four mainstream classrooms, five special education rooms and the repurposing of an existing space. Overall, this is welcome. However, parents have raised concerns with me that this will take a section of the school's playing pitch. As the Taoiseach knows, green space is vitally important to our young people. The school has submitted an alternative application that would see an existing prefab being replaced and all special classes integrated into a single modular building. This would be more streamlined and cost-effective, but crucially, it would save the school's pitch. The Department has informed me that it would not be able take this into consideration at this time.”
“If we can fill that vacuum with a community assessment and proper communications, it will stop the vacuum and will actually stop racism and misinformation getting out there.”
“To criticise us for coming in here and speaking on something and taking up time when the Government has put a guillotine on this tonight is absolutely disgraceful. As Deputy Carthy said, we on the justice committee said we would give the Government as much time as it needed to discuss this in the committee room. We would have done so five days a week if necessary just to get through all of this. The Government, however, declined that offer and decided to come here and guillotine the Bill. The amendment we are talking about is about just a community impact assessment. It is not about a veto. It is about finding out if a community can take on extra vulnerable people in a situation where there are already a hell of a lot of vulnerable people. How do you look at that? You use the Pobal index of deprivation, and we spoke about that last week.”
“During Questions on Policy or Legislation, I stood here and asked the Taoiseach for clarity on whether Citywest would become a public centre. He gave me no clarity whatsoever. At the same time as I was speaking to him, the Minister was outside on the plinth making an announcement on it. The Minister can check the timeline. The Taoiseach could not even give me an answer in here while the Minister was making an announcement outside. That is no way to communicate to people. As regards this amendment, I heard some of the criticism and I would say the Minister is sitting over there delighted to see people over here having a go at other people over here. That is what he wants because it takes the eye off him and the Government's failures on this.”
“I spoke last week about how misinformation can allow the ground to be planted for bad actors. I spoke on the Social Democrats motion this morning on GP services. A GP service was to come to my area – this was fantastic as it was absolutely needed – but a rumour went around that the building was going to be an IPAS centre. People came not just from Clondalkin but also from all over Dublin and threatened to burn it down. That is because there was no communication. That is why we are asking for community impact assessments and for information to be circulated. I also spoke last week about how TDs and others in my community found out through the national papers that the Citywest centre was going to become a public international protection centre. That is no way to communicate to people.”
“The reason is that those in the centre had benefited the community. They went to school with my kids, played football for the local GAA club and football team and became part of the community. Over the next couple of years, several other forms of accommodation were introduced, including IPAS accommodation and accommodation for Ukrainians. Centres seemed to be popping up from the Red Cow and Dulcain House to the Ibis Hotel without any communication or consultation whatsoever. It was Sinn Féin members who spoke to people at the doorsteps to inform them as to what was happening and let them know there was nothing to worry about. The Government should have been doing that but it was not. We had to fill a vacuum in our community. Having no communication leads to misinformation.”
“I spoke last week about this legislation and how a vacuum leaves a space for bad actors, racists and misinformation to come in. Such a vacuum is caused by the lack of information going into our communities. In my area, Clondalkin, we have what is probably one of the longest running direct provision centres in the country. It has been there for over 20 years. The fact that we have a direct provision centre in the community for that long is a stain on the Government. It has failed with direct provision and is now failing people in IPAS accommodation and accommodation for Ukrainians. About ten years ago, there was a move to move people from the direct provision centre somewhere down the country, outside Dublin. The good people of Clondalkin – I was with them – rallied to keep the direct provision centre in their area.”
“I can tell the Minister of State the needs of the area. I live there. My constituency office is in the heart of the area. I know the people who come to me looking for access to GPs, mental health supports, physiotherapy and all of the other things offered as primary care. We need to see this primary healthcare centre in place as a matter of urgency.”
“They are inundated with people seeking to access their services. As I have said, this is a good news story for the people of north Clondalkin and the surrounding areas but there is also a bad news story. We have been promised a primary care centre in Rowlagh for over 15 years. At the very start, there was an issue with a land transfer between the Department of education and the Department of Health. This saga has been going on for way too long. It is an area of high disadvantage. The Pobal index will tell you that; I do not need to stand up here and say it. The area has been crying out for this centre for a long time. The last response I got from the Minister was very disappointing. It basically said that plans are on hold. We have been waiting for 15 years and the plans are now on hold while the Department looks at the needs of the area.”
“It will allow the Rowlagh Medical Centre to take on an initial 1,000 medical card patients. It also has capacity for more. At a time when GP services are in short supply, this is wonderful news for the people of north Clondalkin and beyond. The centre opened its doors in 2024. Since then, it has seen over 10,000 patients. It has a walk-in service, which also needs to be looked at. You do not need an appointment to see the GP. You can just walk in. Other GP surgeries in the area do not offer that service. The centre also provides an out-of-hours service. It is open from Monday to Sunday, seven days a week. People have said that other GPs might be a bit put out by this competition but my own GP, who is listening to this debate, is quite happy to see this service because it is talking pressure off them.”
“I will start with some good news for a change. However, it is good news that is tainted by bureaucracy getting in the way of progress. The Government needs to look at the process for having new GP services take on medical card patients. The bureaucratic red tape within the HSE makes this really difficult. I have had this experience over the last couple of years in trying to help a new GP service in Rowlagh. I have been working with Dr. Kumar and his team from day one to get approval from the HSE to allow the practice to take medical card patients. That process took over 18 months. The clinic was able to see private patients since opening but could not take on medical card patients. An 18-month wait to be able to do so is unacceptable. It needs to be looked at as a matter of urgency. I was delighted to see it finally being approved.”
“I listened to the Minister's interviews in recent weeks. All she had to say was some of the stuff that was said in this statement, although not all of it. She stated that all schools reviewed by the NCSE and allocated additional resources will receive them in the upcoming year. That would have stopped anxiety and worry for the SNAs the Minister sees here tonight. She stated that no reductions will come into effect in 2026 and 2027. She could not give those assurances to parents and SNAs in recent weeks. The NCSE, which the Minister talked about earlier, is not perfect. Nobody is going to say it is perfect but the Government is using it as a scapegoat. The NCSE is carrying out her instructions to the letter. It is doing exactly what it was told to do. It is following the 2014 circular the Government brought in.”
“I begin by congratulating the parents of children with additional needs, the school communities and the special needs assistants themselves. Many of them are here tonight. I have been contacted by parents, principals and SNAs in Clondalkin, Lucan and across Dublin Mid-West over the past couple of weeks in relation to this. I was at an event on Thursday in Collinstown Community College, where people in Clondalkin are trying to make it an autism-friendly town. Members of the Minister's own party, Fine Gael, were there, getting photographs with children and parents. Where are they tonight? Not one of them is here tonight. They are ashamed to come into this room and back up what the Government is trying to do to the parents around here. The Government has done that much of a U-turn I am surprised the Minister does not have whiplash.”
“Infants from Rathcoole, Newcastle, Saggart, Citywest, Brittas and Fettercairn are not getting developmental checks after three months. This is not the first time I have raised this issue with the Taoiseach and other Members in this House. When will all the babies and infants in Dublin Mid-West receive these vital developmental checks?”
“We know that early intervention is key in a child's development. There is no earlier intervention than a newborn child receiving a developmental assessment from a public health nurse. According to the HSE, a child should receive a developmental assessment at the first visit, at three months, at nine to 11 months, at 21 to 24 months and at 46 to 48 months. In Dublin Mid-West, we have a postcode lottery of access to public health nurses. Only two health centres out of the 12 in Dublin Mid-West are able to offer the full range of developmental checks to newborns and infants. Babies from Adamstown, Deansrath, Palmerstown and Rowlagh are only getting first visits due to a shortage of public health nurses, prompting concerns that there could be a delay in diagnosing certain conditions.”
“All of these issues could have been ironed out before the announcement was made and it would have stopped an awful lot of upset in the community. The Pobal deprivation index has to be key if other centres are going in. We must make sure we use the Pobal deprivation index. I spoke to the Minister not long ago. Parts of my constituency have gone backwards in the Pobal deprivation index. They went from being areas of high disadvantage to being areas of extremely disadvantaged in recent years. If consideration was being given to putting an international protection centre in these places on top of everything else I do not think it would be the right thing to do. The Pobal deprivation index should be considered by the Government. This is a very sensible amendment. It calls for an assessment of an area before something else goes into it.”
“I always say, and I have said it to the Minister before publicly and privately, that we need people on the community engagement team who have the ability to make decisions. Instead of going off and finding out information and coming back again, they should have the ability to make real decisions that will make a difference in our communities. The amendment we are speaking about is on a community impact assessment. It is about seeing what impact an international protection service would have, and what impact having more vulnerable people in it would have on the area. If we had a community impact assessment prior to Citywest, for example, we would have known there were issues in the area with a lack of gardaí, a lack of school places, transport and GP provision. There is no provision for public health nurses in the area.”
“This was the direct impact of no communication and no consultation on the locations of IPAS centres. Citywest is also in our area. Communities and TDs should not have had to find out from national newspapers that the Government was going to purchase Citywest as a public IPAS centre. This is no way to do business. It caused a lot of hurt and anger in the area. Citywest will not be the last public IPAS centre that the Government will put in place but it has to learn from the mistakes that have been made already. The community engagement team came in after the fact and not during the fact. I have to be honest and say it has got better. The responses I am getting from the community engagement team are a lot better.”
“I will never forget that I had to stand outside the old Rowlagh credit union in Neilstown when it was getting done up. Nobody knew what was going on at the time or why it was being done up. Rumours were started and spray paint was being put all over the building to burn it out. There was all this kind of stuff that is not wanted in our communities. It is not with regard to my community but this is what was happening. It took me to find out what was happening. A much-needed GP service was coming into an area of high disadvantage. I had to go and speak to the doctor. He was from Kerry and was relocating his service into north Clondalkin. I had to stand outside and take a photograph and explain to people what was happening. My concern was that bad actors were going to come in and burn the place down.”
“The Minister of State and I do not share a constituency but we do share the local authority area of South Dublin County Council. It houses the largest number of international protection applicants in the country with 4,200 in total. I have to say that some have settled in better than others but one thing they all have in common is that they are all with private operators who are making vast money from vulnerable people. An issue I have had from the start is with communication and consultation, how it is delivered and how people find out. It needs to be better because when it is not communicated well to people in our constituencies, it leaves a space for misinformation, bad actors and rumours. I will give an example. Any time there was a bit of work being done on a building, people said it would be the next IPAS centre.”
“We are talking about definitions of "last resort" for people going into custody but we would not need to be talking about detentions if we had a rules-based system that worked and would enable people to be processed quickly and fairly. I have some questions about the detention of children in particular. Where are these children going to be held? Will this fall under Tusla or what body is going to be responsible? How many unaccompanied minors have arrived over the past couple of years? I have not been able to get those figures and I would appreciate it if the Minister could answer.”
“Will it have to decide whether to help people in international protection, to help people with domestic violence or to help people in family law? Everybody that was at the meeting yesterday wants to do the right thing. I asked earlier about legal group counselling. This was done for children with additional needs. They did group therapy. It was a way of bringing down the list by having a number of people in a room at the same time for a box-ticking exercise. They got some therapy but it was all in a group setting. Will the Minister give me clarification? He has not answered that the couple of times I have asked. Will legal counselling be done in a group setting or an individual setting?”
“I reiterate what my colleagues have said about the meeting we had yesterday at the justice committee. The Minister does not have to believe us when we say there is a crisis in legal aid. The Bar Council of Ireland, the Law Society, FLAC, the Legal Aid Board and Women's Aid were all unanimously in agreement with that. They said the system is ready to collapse and is deteriorating in front of their eyes. Legal aid is fundamental to access to justice, especially in relation to domestic violence and family law. It is bursting at the seams, even without the added pressure this legislation looks like it will put on the Legal Aid Board. The Minister mentioned giving autonomy to the board and deciding on how it spends its resources. It is like Hobson's choice.”
“There were concerns around whether it was going to be group counselling. If so, you could have different people from different backgrounds getting information in different languages, which could be very confusing for them. Who will provide it? Who will regulate it? Will it be individual counselling or group counselling?”
“The Minister has said he will bring forward a definition of "legal counselling". This doubles down on the point we were making earlier that this is rushed legislation. We are on Committee Stage and we still do not have a definition in front of us to be able to discuss what "legal counselling" is. Its absence is why these amendments are being put forward today. We would not have to discuss these amendments if there was a clear definition of "legal counselling". I will return to the questions I asked the first time I came in. Could the Minister provide clarification in respect of his definition of "legal counselling", when it comes forward? Who is going to provide it? Who is going to regulate it? Is it going to be individual counselling or will it be group counselling? I know that was brought up at the justice committee.”
“As I mentioned, counsellors and psychotherapists are still not regulated. This process began in 2018. It was in the programme for Government in 2020. It still has not happened. For this new term, "legal counsellors", will CORU also be required to regulate this or is it something that may happen down the line when all of a sudden we realise that there are unintended consequences of this new term and that this new form of counselling will have to be regulated by an outside branch?”