Mary Butler
Waterford · Fianna Fáil · Ireland
“Major improvements are happening across services: enhanced access to proactive and preventive healthcare to support a better quality of life; the embedding and upscaling of women's health initiatives put in place through the implementation of the previous women's health action plans, including, as the Senator knows, free contraception, sp…”
“In relation to any proposal, a proposal for a new location requires a detailed business case, a premises, support from the regional HSE management, and the necessary funding to resource the staffing of the service. That is where I come into it and what I will be trying to do.”
“We are currently working closely with it to support the expansion of Jigsaw services to Waterford and the south east, as well as to County Clare. The location of Waterford was picked because we have no services in the south east at all. It is great that we will have the hub and spoke model the Senator spoke about.”
“That is where I do not agree with the Senator. I believe €180 million of funding ring-fenced for women's health, when we have come from a low base, is absolutely unbelievable.”
“The plan will build on our knowledge of women's health through research and innovation and will spotlight important areas such as endometriosis and cardiovascular health. Recently, the Minister announced €2 million in funding for women's health research.”
“This plan will continue to focus on how we can improve access to specialist endometriosis care and treatment. As the Senator knows, we have established two super-regional specialist centres, one in Tallaght University Hospital and another in Cork, alongside the development of five regional endometriosis hubs.”
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“Without any kind of analysis or impact assessment of this amendment, it is impossible to know what ramifications it may have. Neither convention has been incorporated into law to my knowledge. This Bill should not be used as trial run for what would be a completely untested legal provision. To do this would undermine the Bill as a whole. It should be noted that the incorporation of either convention into law would require a Government decision, as such that is the reason I cannot support its inclusion by way of amendment to this Bill. I am reassured that throughout the drafting of the Bill there was an acute awareness at every point of Ireland's obligation under the UNCRC and the UNCRPD.”
“I have not met IHREC representatives, but my officials have. I met the Ombudsman for Children recently to discuss the Bill. We went through concerns that he had. I will try to explain where we are coming from on the amendment. While the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities has been ratified, it has not yet been incorporated into domestic law. Similarly, the UNCRC has not been incorporated into domestic law. Neither convention has been adopted directly into Irish law under any childcare, disability or equality legislation. If a decision is made to incorporate either or both conventions into law, this should surely bedone on a whole-of-systems basis rather than solely applying to mental health law. There is a potentially significant provision with major unintended consequences.”
“The primacy of the best interests clause aligns directly with the UN. Considering the potential unintended consequences of this amendment and the fact that Ireland must already comply with both conventions, I cannot accept the amendment.”
“More specifically, Ireland's compliance with this convention is reviewed by the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child. We will continue to be held accountable by the committee for compliance with the convention through periodic reviews. Given the structures in place, I am assured that there are appropriate mechanisms and processes in place to deal with the issues raised by the Senator by way of the amendment. It is unclear what the amendment would provide for beyond the provisions contained in the Bill itself and the already mandatory compliance by the State with both conventions. As provided for in section 10, what is in the best interests of the child is the primary consideration in any decision to be made concerning a child and his or her mental healthcare and treatment.”
“Specifically, the State's mechanism for implementing the convention is the National Human Rights Strategy for Disabled People 2025-2030, which is led by the Minister for Children, Disability and Equality. The strategy sets out a whole-of-government approach to disability over the next five years. This means that Departments and State bodies are responsible for planning and delivering commitments across various sectors. There is already accountability on the part of the State directly to the Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Ireland is regularly reviewed for compliance at its periodic reviews and issues of non-compliance by the State can be raised at any time. Ireland ratified the Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1992. Again, there is a process in place to monitor the convention.”
“Throughout the drafting of this Bill, there was an acute awareness at every point of Ireland's obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. The Bill has been subjected to extensive legal advice and ongoing consultation with the Attorney General's office. My officials and officials in the Attorney General's office considered each provision in light of our commitments under these conventions. I believe the Bill is compliant with these conventions within the State's understanding of both conventions when we ratified them. A process was already in place to adhere to the convention and optional protocol.”
“As Senators may be aware, it is already mandatory for Ireland to comply with both UN conventions. Ireland signed the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities optional protocol in 2024. That protocol establishes a complaints mechanism whereby individuals or groups of individuals who claim to be the victim of a violation of the convention by a state party, may refer a communication to the Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. Under the optional protocol, a state party recognises the competence of the committee to receive and consider such communications. Communications are subject to certain admissibility criteria, including a requirement to exhaust all available domestic remedies.”
“I have met with the Children's Rights Alliance. It was a couple of months ago, but I certainly met with it. The alliance did not raise any specific issues in relation to this aspect of the Bill. Because the Family Courts Act 2024 is new, I imagine that the alliance would have engaged with the Minister for justice at the time. These are family-friendly courts. When a child is being involuntarily detained under a care order, the Family Court is the right place for the child and the family to be. To answer the Senator's question, I met with the Children's Rights Alliance and it did not raise this aspect of the Bill.”
“The alignment with the family court system is a positive step for all children the subject of court proceedings because the Family Court is child friendly and sets out in its guiding principles that the best interests of the child are the primary consideration of the court. Officials in my Department will continue to liaise with officials in the Departments of justice and children as we move towards commencement.”
“These are consequential amendments to change references from the Circuit Court to the Family Circuit Court and from the High Court to the Family High Court. The Family Courts Act 2024 is the responsibility of the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, so I will not speak to the provisions of that Act in detail. However, I will say that the Family Courts Act 2024 reforms our family law system by establishing specialised courts within the District, Circuit and High Courts. This Act will appoint judges with family law expertise to these courts and introduce regional hubs. These amendments align court proceedings for children under the mental health Bill with the family court system.”
“Amendments Nos. 36,193, 200, 204, 208,209, 213 to 216, inclusive, 219, 220, 223 to 227, inclusive, 230, 232, 239, 257, 283, 285, 287 and 289 have been grouped together. These amendments relate to the Family Courts Act 2024 and will align court proceedings for children in a mental health context with court proceedings for children in a child protection and a family law context. In short, where a child is subject to court proceedings under this Bill, such as where a child is to be involuntarily admitted, those proceedings will now be heard in the Family District Court rather than the District Court. If it is not possible to arrange a sitting of the Family District Court, the regular District Court can continue to hear such proceedings.”
“The nominated person is also entitled to receive information of a general nature on behalf of the admitted person. It is important to note that this role and the entitlement to attend meetings or receive information may only ever be done with the consent of the admitted person. It is his or her decision what information is shared and with whom.”
“Amendments Nos. 23, 354 to 359, inclusive, and 361 to 366, inclusive, have been grouped together. Amendment No. 23 updates the definition of nominated person to clarify that a nominated person must be an adult, which is a person 18 years or older. The rest of the amendments in this grouping change the word "nominee" to "nominated person". This has been done to ensure consistency in language across the Bill. The role of a nominated person is to support the person throughout the admission and to be someone whom the admitted person can consult at the points where he or she is making a decision regarding, for example, treatment options and discharge. The nominated person may also attend review board hearings with the admitted person as well as any other meeting the person requests their attendance at.”
“There are four lads working there who have a second chance in life. They do phenomenal work recycling paint and servicing and restoring bicycles. I completely agree with the Senators; everyone needs a second chance and an opportunity to live their best lives.”
“I thank both Senators for their contributions. We will certainly take a look at Senator Ruane's suggestion in relation to that. I will be back in the new year with this Stage and Report Stage. I will ask my officials to look at it. I cannot give the Senator an answer here and now, but we can certainly look at that . I am hoping that the CORU piece in relation to psychologists will be resolved very soon. It may not need that statutory instrument at all if the time works out in relation to it. I also agree with what Senator Costello said. I think everyone deserves a second chance. We have a fantastic organisation in Waterford for those who have had difficulties and have spent time incarcerated for different reasons. It is called Treo Port Lairge. There is another organisation off that called Renew, which is all about the circular economy.”
“I am also conscious of the Sláintecare model, which calls for the right care at the right time as close to home as possible. I will certainly raise the issue with the Minister to see if this is a definitive step that has been taken in Donegal or if there is any room to consider it again.”
“I thank the Senator for the manner in which he has raised this important issue and for complimenting the supports that are available. They are good supports when people have access to them. The Government is committed to addressing immediate difficulties that patients are experiencing in accessing oral healthcare services, as well as fundamentally reforming dental services through the implementation of the national oral health policy, Smile agus Sláinte. The policy sets out the vision for the future of oral healthcare services. The two key goals of the policy are to provide supports to enable every individual to achieve his or her personal best oral health and to reduce oral health inequality across the population by enabling vulnerable groups to access oral healthcare and improve their oral health.”
“I get the point about the need for governance issues. Having more capacity in one particular area works well. I understand the geographical challenges that people in Donegal are having.”
“The Senator may not be aware of this but those medical professionals were very concerned about outpatient mental health supports. I included funding in budget 2026 for a crisis resolution team for Donegal, including a crisis café with recurring funding of €1.3 million for a multidisciplinary team of up to ten people. I know I have moved off the subject but I want to let the Senator know that there is recognition of the geographical challenges in such a large county. Killybegs is right on the periphery. I will speak to the Minister and raise the Senator's concerns about the fact that there is not going to be a service available. I am not sure what the knock-on effect will be for those who may not be in a position to travel for that support. As he said, it could take up to half a day and it also means that parents lose time at work.”
“My understanding is that there is a state-of-the-art premises in Donegal town. There is dentistry there and there will be an additional dentist early in the new year. The Senator is pointing to the fact that there was no consultation and coupled with that, he is pointing to the time it takes for people to get from Killybegs to Donegal town. I visited Donegal in my capacity as the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health at the start of September. I visited the three child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, teams. I met the clinical director of the inpatient unit of the approved centre for mental health. I also met several doctors. I was pleased by the way all the clinicians seemed to work together and support each other. That is really important.”
“Children are also offered emergency care at this clinic, but I take on board the point the Senator made that there was no consultation and that this happened without anyone being aware of it. Recruitment of an additional dentist for the Donegal town service to fill the post vacated in Killybegs is under way and the head of service in Donegal anticipates this post will be filled early next year. The HSE assures that appointments will be offered to children who have been waiting the longest as a priority once the post is filled. When I read this response before I came over to take this matter, being a Minister of State in the Department of Health, I saw two ways to look at this. The premises obviously did not meet regulatory and compliance requirements, which is an issue.”
“I compliment the Minister that yesterday the Cabinet approved draft legislation for continuing professional development for dentists, to support more dentists and to update the legislation, which has been in place since 1985. This is an important move because we are aware of challenges in dentistry around the country and especially in remote areas. The HSE has advised that the dental clinic in Killybegs closed in December 2024, ahead of the planned retirement of a dentist in May 2025, as the Senator said. The premises no longer meet updated regulatory and compliance requirements. Patients were referred to a new state-of-the-art dental clinic in Donegal town to continue their treatment.”
“I thank the Senator for raising the important issue of why the school dental service in Killybegs, County Donegal has not been restored since the retirement of the previous dentist. The HSE oral healthcare service aims to provide an oral examination and necessary treatment for children at the approximate ages they are in second and sixth class and, in some cases, fourth class. Emergency care is provided to children of all ages up to 16 and for those with complex and additional needs. The Minister for Health is aware that there are currently backlogs in the HSE's child oral health examination programme, which has meant that sixth class children are being prioritised.”
“I know people are waiting in anticipation for the Minister's response. She has said she will bring it to the Cabinet before Christmas and I will speak to her after this debate to let her know about the Deputy's strength of feeling. Everyone accepts and acknowledges that there is not enough capacity of acute hospital beds in the region at the moment. I thank the Deputy again for his advocacy.”
“A second new 96-bed block is in progress at UHL and a third 16-bed block is planned for 2026. Bed capacity has been further expanded throughout the region, through the acute hospital inpatient bed capacity expansion plan, including 24 new beds at Nenagh Hospital, 48 new beds at Ennis Hospital and 42 new beds at St. John's Hospital. It is expected that there will be at least an additional 420 beds in the region by 2031. Other initiatives for the region include the acute virtual ward for 25 patients, which went live in UHL in July 2024. I will also touch on the staff, especially those working in the emergency department with the constantly increasing presentations every day. They are the front line and do a phenomenal job. However, I take on board every word the Deputy said.”
“I thank the Deputy for that. The Minister will update her Cabinet colleagues before Christmas on her considered response. I acknowledge the fact the Deputy appreciates there is work going on to increase capacity and additional funding has been provided. UHL's budget has increased from €265 million in 2019 to €507 million in 2024. I will also touch on the two rapid build 16-bed units opened in December 2024 and June 2025, respectively, and the 96-bed block that was opened in October 2025, which the Deputy spoke about, to provide an additional 128 beds in the region, since the ESRI assessment of capacity in 2023. This has already helped reduce the number of people waiting on trolleys, notwithstanding the pressures all hospitals are currently facing due to the increased presentations by people sick with the flu.”
“Going back to the HIQA report, it presents three options, as the Deputy knows, with the expansion of capacity at UHL on the Dooradoyle site, which is option A; the extension of the UHL hospital campus to include a second site in close proximity, which is option B; and option C, which is the development of a model 3 hospital in HSE Mid West. The Minister has accepted the report and the advice from HIQA. Along with her officials, she is considering the comprehensive and detailed reports and advice provided by HIQA and will report back to Government before the end of the year. The ESRI has projected the number of inpatient beds to meet the projected 2040 demand will need to increase from between 299 and 593 beds compared with 2023 capacity levels.”
“I also visited University Hospital Limerick and met with the regional executive officer, Sandra Broderick, and senior management. I visited the new 96-bed block and I am delighted to say it is open, which the Deputy has welcomed publicly. The second one will be up and running as soon as possible. However, this does not solve the short-term issues. This morning there are 32 people on trolleys in UHL - three in the emergency department and 29 moved to wards. This is similar to other areas. In Galway, there are 51, in Cork, there are 39, and in the Mater, there are 27. Certainly, every focus has been put in place to try to reduce that.”
“I acknowledge UHL is still the busiest hospital, with a 10% increase in attendance this year compared to the last year. I had a conversation with senior management this morning and they are on track to receive 100,000 attendees to the emergency department this year. Mitigation pieces are in place regarding senior clinician decision-making and de-escalation of the emergency department, with a good length of stay averaging at four and half days. Thankfully, mortality is static and currently in line with every other hospital. I recently visited the mid-west region to discuss mental health and I compliment the mental health teams. The CAMHS teams there have turned around the complete waiting list and are now operating much better.”
“HIQA submitted its final report to the Minister, and it was published on 30 September this year. As the Deputy will appreciate, the reports and analysis supporting this review are extensive. There was substantial stakeholder engagement, regulatory inspections, a national policy review, data analysis review and international evidence reviews. The Minister and I acknowledge the substantial work undertaken by all those who both conducted and took part in this review, including the expert advisory group which included a wide representation of relevant experience. In summary, HIQA’s analysis found the inpatient bed capacity in the region needed to be increased to meet current and projected demand for patients requiring more complex or specialist healthcare.”
“I thank Deputy Kelly for the opportunity to address the House on the discussion around the need for a new model 4 hospital in the mid-west region. I also thank him for his ongoing advocacy in relation to University Hospital Limerick. I have stood across the floor from him many times over the past five and half years discussing health matters, and he has been very consistent. I want to put that on the record. In May 2024, HIQA was requested to conduct a review of urgent and emergency care in the mid-west region, with the primary objective of ensuring safe, quality, acute care. As part of this review, HIQA was requested to consider the case for a second emergency department in the context of the population changes in the region and with the ongoing pressures at UHL.”
“There are three different types of psychologists, namely, clinical, educational and counselling. NEPS, for example, would be more about educational psychology. My understanding is that psychologists will have to comply in terms of registration under the mental healthcare professional provisions in this Bill.”
“I can only speak in regard to the Bill. The definition of a "mental healthcare professional" has a specific meaning in the Bill and there are certain actions only a mental healthcare professional can carry out under its provisions. That covers the worry the Senator has articulated.”
“We cannot overestimate the importance of regulation and governance. We really must be crystal clear on that. I remember an RTÉ exposé a couple of years ago of a psychologist in my constituency of Waterford who was practising but had absolutely no qualifications. The work of CORU is really important. It can be frustrating at times but I reiterate that regulation is very important. A Bill I have been working on for quite a few years concerning regulation of home care supports, which has been taken over by the Minister of State, Deputy O'Donnell, came through for publication at the Cabinet today. The point I am making is that the importance of regulation and governance cannot be overestimated. I hope the situation regarding registration of psychologists by CORU will be finalised very soon.”
“I announced three further teams in the budget, comprising one each for Donegal, Kerry and the midlands. Psychology plays a role there. There are 14 adult ADHD teams funded, nine of which are in place and five under recruitment. Again, psychology plays a significant role there. Perinatal mental health supports are in place across all 19 maternity hospitals, with psychology and psychosocial support playing a huge role. I am fully on board with the Senators on this issue. I cannot accept the amendments because what they propose is already dealt with in the Bill, but I fully support what they are trying to achieve. I look forward, as soon as psychologists are registered with CORU, to signing the statutory instrument that will change the make-up of the Bill.”
“Once that is in place, officials in my Department will look to include psychologists within the definition of "mental healthcare professional". The definition has been carefully worded to state that the Minister may, by regulation, which is to say by way of statutory instrument, designate other professionals under the Health and Social Care Professionals Act 2005. The Department's intention is to designate psychologists for the purposes of this Bill following the impending regulation of psychology by CORU. We have 81 CAMHS teams, comprising 76 plus five special teams. Every single team is multidisciplinary and includes professionals from psychiatry and psychology, clinical nurse specialists and social workers. Our new crisis resolution teams are the exact same.”
“I thank both Senators for articulating their support for psychology, which I fully endorse. The only reason psychologists are not explicitly included in the definition of "mental healthcare professional" is that the profession is not yet registered by CORU. I have a personal interest in this matter. I have met with CORU on the issue and there is ongoing engagement between it and my Department to progress the registration of psychologists. I have a very good working relationship with the Psychological Society of Ireland, PSI. In fact, I recently spoke at its annual conference. The PSI wrote to me during the summer to let me know it is fully supportive of the aims of the Bill. I am keen to see the registration of psychologists by CORU happen as quickly as possible.”
“Given the time we have looked into, discussed and debated this and tried to come up with a different term, it best suits the Bill. I was in here last week when the situation relating to eating disorders was raised. Nobody had any problem with an eating disorder being called an eating disorder. We talk about ADHD where the term "disorder" is used. We talk about respiratory disorders. We certainly have to differentiate between somebody with emotional distress or low levels of anxiety and somebody who is detained involuntarily with a mental disorder. For that reason, I am not in a position to accept the amendments.”
“For example, on the UN webpage entitled "Mental Health and Wellbeing", the term "disorder" is used 17 times with regard to mental disorders, anxiety disorders and eating disorders. "Mental disorder" is a commonly used term in legislation in other similar jurisdictions such as the UK and New Zealand as well as in Acts in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It would be a very different conversation if the Bill proposed to retain a term that is not used anywhere else to the exclusion of a widely agreed term but this is not the case. "Mental disorder" is an appropriate and widely term in other jurisdictions and used by the UN. If there comes a time when the term "mental disorder" is replaced with a different term internationally, the legislation can be amended to reflect.”
“"Mental illness" is not used in legislation in similar jurisdictions or by international bodies such as the UN. "Mental illness" is not a better term to use in the legislation. There needs to be a legal distinction between the term we use for the condition that can deprive someone of his or her liberty and the term we use that applies to the conditions that may apply to a wide range of people accessing mental health treatment on a voluntary basis, particularly in the community. Despite what has been said, there is no one agreed term internationally regarding severe and enduring conditions. We have done a lot of work looking into that. Even within the UN, there is no one agreed term believe it or not. While the UNCRPD uses the term "psychosocial disabilities", the UN also uses the term "mental disorder".”
“It should also be noted that the term "disorder" is used frequently elsewhere in healthcare and in mental healthcare, such as in relation to eating disorders, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, respiratory disorders and autism spectrum disorder. "Disorder" is a valid, frequent-use term throughout healthcare. Government amendment No. 16 corrects a typographical error that needs to be fixed.”
“I do not want to trivialise this, but we need to give weight to psychotic conditions where people are seriously ill or to people who have neurotic conditions with severe persistent symptoms that are dysfunctional. We have to give way to that. At this time, "mental disorder" is ... the best term. I have asked Members to come up with another term that we feel is more appropriate, but I have not come across it yet. I fervently believe there has to be a distinction between mental health difficulties and conditions that can be treated in the community and on a voluntary basis, and then conditions classified as mental disorders in the Bill, which can be the cause of an involuntary admission.”
“Earlier in the same debate, Deputy Daly stated: Trying to come up with language that pleases everyone is difficult, but the terms "mental health difficulties" and "psychosocial disability" are too broad for some of the conditions we are talking about. My understanding of the term "mental health disorder" is someone who has a clinically diagnosed condition that is persistent and causing ongoing disability for that person. We are talking about people with schizophrenia, bipolar affective disorder, or with persistent anxiety and depression. "Mental health difficulties" is just too broad a term. It encompasses things that may well be transient that affect mental well-being or health. For example, if people have a bad day or are stressed, that is a mental health difficulty. They might feel better tomorrow because they had a good night's sleep.”
“I think of how 40 or 50 years ago, we put people into psychiatric units who should never have been there for a range of reasons. Psychosocial covers a myriad of things from social behaviour to personality disorder and addiction issues. We have moved on from that. There must be a high bar for involuntary admission. I believe practitioners in the community apply a high bar to it for the very reason that it is an enormous step to detain someone, take away their liberty and involuntarily admit them to a psychiatric institution. I was really struck by the Deputy's words that night. When any of us are sick, our first port of call is our GP working in the community day and night to support people.”
“I will be criticised for having a good working relationship with the college of psychiatry, for example, with psychologists or with the Psychiatric Nurses Association, but I was really struck by Deputy Daly's comments. This is a general practitioner of 35 years' experience working in a rural area, and he said that. He continued: The situations where we have admitted people to hospital involuntarily are those where someone is psychotically ill - usually with schizophrenia, bipolar manic depressive disorder or acute psychotic episode. Thankfully, there are some acute psychotic episodes that are related to stress and people do ... well once there is early intervention but to widen the terminology to psychosocial disability would do something we thought we had left behind us.”
“It might mean that your mental health or your emotional well-being is not where it should be. However, does that mean you have a mental health disorder? No, it certainly does not. That is why I have thought long and hard about this. I will read something into the record of the Seanad. I spoke in the Dáil the night we were discussing this. The majority of Senators will know Deputy Martin Daly, who is a GP. I was really struck by what he said the evening when we were debating this wording. I got the transcript of his comments. Dr. Daly said: We have a very low rate of involuntary admission compared to other jurisdictions, most especially the UK, which is our closest neighbour. It is a really serious step for any practitioner in the community to involuntarily admit someone. This is based on my 35-year experience as a GP.”
“This was at a time when you could not go more than 5 km from your house. A man on the programme said his mental health was affected because the pub was closed. I said to myself, a lot of things might drive my emotional well-being. A lot of times you have a really busy day and your emotional well-being can be under pressure. You might have a very busy day in the Dáil - as Chief Whip and Minister of State with responsibility for mental health, for example, on your feet for almost 12 hours at this stage. As another example, you might face a situation where something has gone wrong in work or something has gone wrong with your relationships or your housing. There are myriad reasons, and that could affect you. I always say, and we say down in Waterford, that could throw you out of kilter.”
“Amendments Nos. 15 to 17, inclusive, relate to the definition of "mental disorder" and propose to replace it with a definition of "psychosocial disability" or "mental health difficulty". We spent a lot of time debating this in the Dáil. I had expected to debate it again here tonight. I have spent a great deal of time considering this issue and have consulted widely on the term involved. I do not intend to accept amendments Nos. 15 and No. 17, and I will set out the reasons why. We forget that the Covid pandemic spanned 2020, 2021 and 2022. I often remember thinking that it was great that people were speaking so openly about their mental health, their mental health challenges and their mental health difficulties. I will remember watching "The Late Late Show" one Friday night.”
“A lot of questions are being asked in relation to guardians ad litem, and their primary role is to assert and communicate the child's views to the court and to make recommendations in the child's best interest. I know issues have been raised in relation to guardians ad litem and the Minister's Department is looking at that and how they can be improved.”
“There is in-reach mental health services for children in Oberstown. Children in Oberstown are not admitted under this Act. I could have this wrong and I stand open to correction on this but my understanding is that a child in Oberstown would be admitted for several reasons. I am not sure whether this Act is the reason they would be admitted to Oberstown, but what we are trying to do here is to align the cases of those who are detained or involuntarily detained with the Child Care Act 1991 to make sure there are no grey areas when a child is being supported in court under a care order. A huge amount of work has gone on for well over 12 months between both Departments in trying to make sure there are no grey areas there. However, I understand the concerns the Senator is raising.”