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DÁIL ÉIREANN · FORMER

Ruth Coppinger

Dublin West · People Before Profit-Solidarity · Ireland

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Next Wednesday, the trial continues of the Ulm five, including the Irish citizen, Daniel Tatlow-Devally. A delegation of TDs and Senators, including me, will attend the trial in Stuttgart next week.

SITTING OF 2026-07-16 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

This man said of one woman that he would attach her to a concrete block. He said of another that he would set fire to her. Should this person be getting a pay off from the Army? No, of course, he should not. He should have been put on trial.

SITTING OF 2026-07-16 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

I have very little time left, but I want to put on record that the woman in question was abused by an Army officer using military equipment and surveillance technology, which is extremely scary. She made a complaint, which has never been pursued.

SITTING OF 2026-07-16 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

When is the victims of crime Act 2017 going to apply the Army? The Women of Honour have pushed for change so that if there is abuse within the Army there will, we hope, be mechanisms to deal with that, but what about women who are abused by Army personnel who are not in the Army?

SITTING OF 2026-07-16 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

This officer was involved in a GoFundMe campaign, where rapists' names were used as a joke by the various men who contributed to it. I do not think rape is funny and the Army should not either. That GoFundMe campaign was left up for a long time. Why is the Army a law unto itself in relation to gender-based violence?

SITTING OF 2026-07-16 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

The victim's belief is that the military prosecutor has evidence of a very dangerous man but for some reason, the Army does not seem to be concerned because it has not prosecuted him on those charges. Why would the Army not want to prosecute somebody? Are we at war or something? Why is it so secretive?

SITTING OF 2026-07-16 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

The complete record

Every one of 1,205 lines we hold for Ruth Coppinger, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 18 of 25.

  1. Last night, the "Natasha" documentary on RTÉ charted what happened to Natasha O'Brien. It was a valuable documentary. I want the Tánaiste to take seriously the case of a woman who has spoken to me and who was abused by an Army member. He used his Army position, military surveillance, Army guns and even a grenade to threaten her and her family. He told this woman that he was untouchable. I am talking about sexual assault and very serious abuse. She reported him to the Defence Forces for sending pictures of guns to her in November 2022. She made statements to the military police. She still has not had an outcome to that case. She was told last July, when she pressed again, by the victim liaison officer of the Defence Forces that the investigation was complete and she would be sent the results.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  2. The first lever is the occupied territories Bill. The Government needs to move it and make sure the Bill gets in before the recess. However, there are other issues such as Shannon Airport and the Bill on the Israeli war bonds, which the Tánaiste and members of Government voted down. The bar is low in the EU. There is no point in comparing yourself to them.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  3. The point of my contribution was that we are the second biggest trader with Israel. It is worth €3.3 billion. The occupied territories Bill is a fraction of that. It is a welcome step. The question is why the Government is not moving forward the whole occupied territories Bill that was originally proposed in the Dáil six years ago. It was unanimously or certainly overwhelmingly supported. Fianna Fáil brought it in and was cheering and whooping about it. The Government has the chance to bring in the whole Bill. There is no legal impediment to doing so that the Government has identified. Why not introduce Frances Black's full Bill? It would have been much quicker. The word "complicity" means that you are involved in something or you know something is wrong and do not do anything about it.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  4. It has become a significant transit point for the US military since 9/11. The RTÉ news data, for example, reported 2,000 applications for exemptions, of which only 0.1% were refused. Literally millions of US troops have passed through Shannon Airport in the past 20 years.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  5. The occupied territories Bill only covers a fraction of our trade with Israel. According to the United Nations Comtrade, our trade with Israel is worth €3.3 billion, the second highest after the US and above China. While the genocide was in full swing last year, for example, Ireland was the largest buyer of Israeli integrated circuits, while the Tánaiste was Taoiseach, €3 billion worth of integrated circuits that are used ironically in our health system while the people of Gaza were having their health system destroyed. I will not even go into the companies that are here and benefitting and part of the genocide, but I will ask the Tánaiste to use the lever of Shannon Airport and our airspace. Shannon Airport has become in effect a logistical military hub for the US.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  6. Why does he not use all the levers he has at his disposal? We cannot wait for the EU to act in concert. The Government is introducing an occupied territories Bill, six years after it was introduced to the Dáil, just before the recess and 20 months into a genocide, but it is denuding the Bill because it does not include services. It does not have even half the power of the original Bill. Why are services not included in this Bill? The International Court of Justice, ICJ, makes no distinction between goods and services. The settlements are illegal and all trade with them should be ended. Some 75% of people in Ireland want the full occupied territories Bill to be passed. The Palestinian people need sanctions and there has been no legal advice to the contrary. Is this due to lobbying from companies like Airbnb that might be affected by this?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  7. Every day people in Gaza play what is called "the hunger games". After two months without a shred of food, milk, medicine or flour coming into the territory, they brave Israeli army bullets at feeding stations that have been set up, for the chance of a bag of flour, a tin of food or whatever for their starving families. We had indelible images from the Holocaust. These will be the indelible images from this holocaust against the Palestinians and history will record that this has been sanctioned and facilitated by the EU and US. Today, we saw the Taoiseach is at the EU summit. He will be blocked in any move to take action against Israel under the trade agreement . It is backed by bigger countries. The Tánaiste has repeatedly said we must use all levers at our disposal to end this genocide.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-26 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  8. The Taoiseach also mentioned in his introduction the announcement of a move to a seven-day operation of the health service. That is all well and good, but there is a shortage of 1,000 beds. There is a shortage of thousands of staff. Staff will be spread over seven days, potentially leading to more mistakes, more bad treatment and more people lying on trolleys.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  9. On the issue of children's health in this country, the Taoiseach gave a glowing introduction, but we have the ongoing scandals at CHI. The latest is no disclosure to parents of the failure of CHI to operate or give treatment to boys with undescended testes leading to potential infertility and cancer issues. Yet, that did not meet the threshold for disclosure. I do not have time in this interaction but does he agree that this is now systemic? It is not one thing here and one thing there. One of the issues parents have raised is the idea of a partial ratified independent scrutiny-type investigation prism where parents would have monitoring and oversight of experts because we will keep continuing down this road and eventually have to concede a public inquiry.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  10. Does he not think people working for companies doing State contracts should be entitled to join unions like Unite? Will he make a strong statement on the matter in relation to Jones Engineering?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  11. I want to raise with the Taoiseach the issue of union busting and anti-union tactics by companies which are in receipt of huge State contracts and whether he thinks that is acceptable. One of the companies is one of the largest mechanical contractors in the State, Jones Engineering, which has a contract for the national children's hospital and potentially other State contracts. It has consistently been hostile to members joining the union of their choice, Unite, so much so that it has attached three senior shop stewards to High Court proceedings, subjecting them, potentially, to huge costs and damages. People have also been subjected to unsolicited visits from people knocking on their doors and so on. Does the Taoiseach think these kinds of union-busting tactics are acceptable?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-24 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  12. This is largely due to understaffing issues. The UK has fast-tracked and approved the drug. This is vital. Parents have marched and have been outside due to this issue. The State must do all it can to approve this drug so that these young boys do not have their conditions deteriorate and do not wait any longer.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-19 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  13. On that same issue, Duchenne muscular dystrophy is a muscle-wasting progressive illness that normally starts affecting boys aged between two to three years. It is a life-altering condition. One parent said her four-year-old could be knocked down by gust of wind. The condition is progressive. Walking can sometimes become difficult and the patient can become a wheelchair user. The disorder has no cure and needs to be acted on extremely quickly. Givinostat is a drug that has been shown in other trial areas to be extremely effective. Parents are desperate to get access to this drug. The EU approved the drug and fast-tracked it on 5 June. The Irish State needs to do the same. The National Centre for Pharmacoeconomics needs to give approval to the drug. The difficulty is that drugs can take up to two years to be approved in Ireland.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-19 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  14. It has natural wildlife parklands that could be developed and it could provide homes for thousands of workers and young people. The Minister asks where the money is. The Government has a budget surplus of €10 billion. It has the Apple money of €14 billion. I urge the Minister to please not use money as an excuse. There is ample money to build public housing, which is the only way to provide it cheaply and in the supply that is needed.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  15. We told the council it had the money and outlined how it could work financially, with 50% social housing and 50% affordable housing. That scheme is now Church Fields. Development is under way. Hundreds of people will get homes as a result. It is not exactly the model I wanted, but it is much better than leaving the site vacant as had been the case. We have the same prospect now with another landbank and I want the Minister to take this on board. Fingal County Council has a huge strategic landbank at Scribblestown in Dunsink at which it has reported 7,000 homes could be built. It has asked for €200 million from the Government to help to get started. That must not be a long-term project. It should be a short-term project. There should be houses starting on that in five years. It is near a rail line. It has major potential.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  16. I dug out a report from nine years ago that I wrote after spending a hell of a lot of hours on a special housing committee set up by the Dáil. It was an all-party committee. Hundreds of hours were spent on that committee, and none of the recommendations it put forward was adopted. Without being boastful, I would say I have been responsible for more houses being built than the Minister. For example, Church Fields in Mulhuddart, which is being cited by the Minister and everyone as being the greatest thing since sliced bread, was put forward by me and Solidarity councillors in 2017. We got an architect to write a plan. We used a drone to make a video. We brought it to Fingal County Council and said there was a landbank it could develop.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  17. One in three vacancies for these teams cannot be filled. One thing I will never forgive the Government for is the oxygen it is giving to the far right by refusing to tackle the housing crisis. In the diverse communities I represent, many people are living in fear because of the hate and division being stoked up in places where minorities are being targeted. I want to focus on solutions because the Government says we do not have them. Making the private rental sector more attractive to investment funds is not the solution. Taking away indefinite tenancies, opening up the prospect of instability after six years, allowing rents relating to new-build apartments to be put up beyond 2% and at the rate of inflation and voluntary exit potentially leading to rent hikes will be a disaster, especially for students. The Minister mentioned solutions.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  18. I welcome this opportunity, particularly as it is the first time I have taken part in a housing debate in the new Dáil with the Minister present. It is important that we get our points across to him. I was also outside at the protest. I am looking forward to a huge turnout on 5 July for the Community Action Tenants Union protest, particularly because young people are in despair. They are either sleeping in cars in order to stay in college because they cannot get accommodation or they are dropping out of college. Afterwards, they are not able to live independent lives. Student teachers and nurses are heading straight to Australia. The knock-on impact of this throughout society is incredible. One place where it is having such an impact is on the waiting lists relating to children's disability network teams.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  19. In regard to our military spending and EU policy, we are going to be spending an incredible amount on fighter jets and so on, bringing us into contact with companies that are directly involved in the genocide in Palestine, such as Lockheed Martin, Raytheon and Airbus. Last year, the Taoiseach said we would not be buying Israeli equipment. There is Israeli equipment in the Airbus helicopters. That is a complete change from what was promised. The Taoiseach gave a commitment on this. Our foreign and security policy is now becoming more militarised. We are going to increase spending to €3 billion in the next few years, spending money on armoured vehicles and spending €100 million on fighter jets and €40 million on advanced missile systems known as javelins.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  20. What is our country's security strategy going forward? It seems to be so tied in with the EU that we cannot assert our own so-called values and beliefs. For example, the Taoiseach says there is a genocide on Gaza, as does the Tánaiste. Ursula von der Leyen says it is Israel defending itself. It was an incredible statement that was put out over the weekend, after Israel had bombed Iran, to say that this was Israel defending itself. We have also seen 330 Palestinians murdered at food sites, which are now becoming known as execution sites, backed by the US. This is the policy of the EU Commission. Has the Taoiseach taken her up on that? Has he challenged what she said and demanded that Ireland break ranks with that?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  21. The super rich globally have allowed investment by banks in fossil fuels to increase. Some of the Taoiseach's own Deputies are profiting from AI, but he cannot continue to worship AI and data centres at the expense of the environment.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  22. Is this a government of climate deniers? Has the Government just given up any pretence of trying to deal with the climate crisis? We are due to reach a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions of 23% rather than 51%. We are not going to reach one third of the targets for agriculture. We have the worst emissions in Europe. We are now the dirty country of Europe. Half of Dublin's electricity is going on data centres. One of the Ministers of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, proposed to put forests on peatland – something that has been called environmental vandalism by an academic. The dairy herd has increased in the past ten years by 53%. All of the things that are necessary to address climate change are not being done. It seems that it is just a case of let rip.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-17 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  23. I thank all the people who have come here from around the country. Keep lobbying your TDs all week to not accept this. Let people vote and have a free vote on a matter of conscience. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael TDs stood in this Chamber a year ago after survivors testified and said that this should be outlawed - we know they agree with what I am saying. Please keep the pressure on TDs until we get change. We will fight to ensure that no person has to go through this misogyny in our courts system ever again.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  24. I would be very interested in hearing why it thinks this is so necessary to maintain. Let this Bill go forward. Let it go to Committee Stage. The justice committee is only waiting to act on this. If the Government does not let the Bill proceed, is it planning any legislation at all regarding gender-based violence? It does not seem to be a priority whatsoever. The Government's attitude is pedestrian. It is extremely disappointing that people have had to campaign and campaign. Any survivor with whom I have spoken and has heard this Bill is blocked is shocked. They are absolutely and utterly shocked and very disappointed. Even if they accepted that there were issues with it, they would have thought it would have gone forward and moved to the next Stage, where those things can be addressed.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  25. We have just seen this week how this State has not taken violence against women seriously, even in how it looks for missing women. That has to never happen again, that women are missing for 30 years and that a disappearance is then upgraded to a murder trial. The record in this country of dealing with women, from mother and baby homes to institutions and through victim-blaming in courts has been horrendous. The chair of the justice committee has appealed to the Government to allow this to go forward in order that we can bring the therapists in and hear what they have to say, as opposed to having them caged behind the glass of the Public Gallery. We should question them and listen to their experience of having to operate under this law. We should bring in survivors and organisations who have views. We should bring in the Judiciary as well.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  26. There are so many ways that, if the Minister and the Government had any political will, they could make this be ruled out of order. The priest is grand and he will be left at it but the victim of a crime has to give full disclosure. This is extremely disappointing. There is a shameful record in this country of dealing with gender-based violence. I know the Minister of State spent a lot of the speech outlining all of the great things he says the Government has done but when we boil it down people still have to wait years for a trial. They then have to run the gauntlet of victim-blaming. They do not have their own independent representation. Character references and all sorts can be wheeled up, all of which are completely traumatising.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  27. As I have said, up until this week, a ban on evictions was unconstitutional. It was done during the pandemic and now it can be extended in rent pressure zones. I want to give an example. Jacqueline, the sister of Clodagh Hawe, has written a book. In this book she writes about her sister and her nephews, who were the victims of the most heinous crime. According to her, a priest had a lot of information about the crime because he had had private conversations with the perpetrator. That priest was never compelled by anyone, any court, any garda or whoever, to disclose that information. Never; which was very upsetting for the family. That is not unconstitutional but somebody's private therapy notes are. By the way, they are third-party so how are they relevant?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  28. No, that is a fact. The idea that judges are always right and should have arbitration on this is not right. I do not agree with giving all power to a judge. I thank the Sinn Féin Deputies who have stayed and contributed to the debate on a Thursday evening. It is a pity there were not more parties. How many more women and people, because we had male victims in the Gallery when First Stage of the Bill was taken, will have to suffer this during the year we are waiting for the Minister? A year is a disgrace. Why would the Government put a stop on my Bill for a year? It shows it is not serious about moving on this quickly, as has already been said. I do not accept that our Constitution is such a problem to everything because I do not think therapy notes were in any way ever considered.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  29. She wanted to come this evening but because of the debate being put back until later she could not do so. She was ready to be here tonight. Natasha O'Brien had to speak out about the judge after her case.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  30. If we add up the statistics, the reporting is so minuscule and then there is the attrition rate of people who drop out while they wait the four to five years for their case to come to court. They go through all the barriers, and there are so many barriers that we cannot even imagine, and they get through them, and then potentially their therapy can be used. It is an non-prosecuted crime. There is no balance to be rejigged towards the defence. It is really bad to hear these tropes again and again. The Minister of State said we cannot have a blanket ban. Why not? These things should not even be in the equation. The Minister of State spoke about putting it into the hands of a judge. Why should it be in the hands of judge? We have seen many judges come out with dreadful rulings. Let us talk real. We saw Natasha O'Brien.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  31. To have these things just regurgitated back shows there is no development whatsoever in Fianna Fáil or the Government on the issue of violence against women and gender non-conforming people; it really does. We have to say it is brilliant we have therapists here. It is brilliant we have had such activism on this issue. This has to be the start of a movement. We have to learn the lesson that any time anything has ever changed it has never come from within the system; it has always been through pressure from outside, through movements and grassroots campaigns, as we saw with repeal, marriage equality, gender recognition, the water charges and the defeating of austerity measures. The Minister of State spoke about balance in his speech. What balance? Gender-based violence is practically a non-prosecuted crime.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  32. I have had the suspicion all along that this Minister is really not getting it and is really not that particularly interested in gender-based violence but is more focused on migration and chartered flights and all of that. This is barrister speak. One of the problems we have is that the Minister is soaked in the courts system. Inevitably, he will go along with what has always been the way. The other thing that is particularly scary is the part of the speech which states, "It is essential for the purpose of a fair trial that the prosecution disclose all relevant material within its possession, power or procurement to the defence." Obviously we all agree that all relevant materials should be being handed over. Counselling notes are not relevant material. This is the point we are making.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  33. We should register that it is poor the Minister is not here himself. No offence to the Minister of State but it is also poor that he is not even in the area of justice. He is in the Department of heritage and housing, I believe. This does not send a good message. What the Minister of State has read out is even more disappointing than I thought it was going to be. Listen to what the Minister is saying; he is saying that "Elevating the rights of a victim of an alleged sexual offence in this way inevitably comes at the cost of defence rights and trial in due course of law." Elevating the rights of a victim costs the defence?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  34. He could not just go along with the easy option, as we know this issue is going to arise again and again, as happened with repeal and the X case. If one tries to find the easiest thing to do, the issue will not go away. It is shameful that the Government has taken this position in the face of what is such a pressing issue. I will certainty urge all parties and TDs to reject the Government amendment.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  35. We have an epidemic of gender-based violence. We can recite all the figures repeatedly. We know what an explosive issue this is in society. We just have to look at what is happening in the North right now, where people have been able to use such an emotive issue to stir up hatred against minorities. At a time when we are urging people to come forward and speak out, we are assailing them with a gauntlet of misogyny. Our legal system is highly patriarchal and rooted in the idea of male entitlement to women's bodies. It reinforces that with the likes of the idea of counselling notes being used. The Minister could make a name for himself and be the first Minister to take this off the agenda. It would be a positive thing that he could do to deal with gender-based violence, something that the Government has promised for so long.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  36. The mere fact that their counselling notes could be accessed is enough to deter people from seeking counselling and going to court and enough to cause real fear, particularly where there is a relationship with coercive control, intimate partner violence or child sexual abuse. It is not enough to try to have this halfway house. We have to rebalance this in favour of those who are victims of gender-based violence. For the past couple of years, Simon Harris, Micheál Martin and Helen McEntee have said that this should be outlawed. Suddenly, they then changed their position to saying it should be amended. Sometimes, one has to stand up to the Judiciary or whoever is telling us otherwise and say there is no evidential value in this. No one has ever given me one example of where a therapy note was vital to somebody's right to a trial.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  37. As I have said, more than 60 therapists, and professionals, psychotherapists, psychologists and psychiatrists in many different fields, have written this week. The Psychology Society of Ireland is adopting this now as its policy. The RCSI is looking at the exclusion of counselling notes also being part of its policy. The Irish Council for Psychotherapy is also. I welcome that the people who are trying to heal those who have been damaged by gender-based violence are taking this. This is a health issue. The cost to the health service, by the way, of allowing people not have therapy is very high. Now is the time to completely eliminate this. The Minister indicated that he may get rid of the waiver and introduce a very high bar for these notes to be accessed and that there would have to be a hearing. That is not good enough.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  38. That is the way it should be in Ireland or it should be certainly similar. What else is counselling but this? We need a similar situation here. The Supreme Court made a judgment recently which strengthened the idea that there is no requirement for these notes to be used in gender-based violence trials. The other point that is made is that this would be unconstitutional and we cannot allow this go through. The Constitution has a right to privacy. It has a right to health. If we even say that there is a conflict of rights, why are all of the rights being given in one way? I am very confident on this if the Minister drafted a good piece of legislation and if somebody challenged that, then fine, let us have a referendum. In fact, most people are horrified when you explain this to them. They do not even know that this exists in our courts.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  39. I have spoken to representatives from the rape crisis centres as well. One of the points they made is, how is this even allowed? These are third-party notes. They are not even the notes of the person who is making the complaint. We do not know how reliable a therapist could even be as to what those notes are. The truth is that there is no other reason for this. We know that there has been an escalation in requests for these notes. It is clearly related to the fact that the defence sees the possibility because we know that misogyny is rife in society, among juries and in the Judiciary, and they know that if they can find something it can be a way of strengthening the defence's case. In the US, there is therapist-and-client privilege so that if somebody goes in, it is a safe space for them to talk.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  40. However, there is nothing of evidential value in a therapy note. That is the key point. Therapy notes are only being used, as misogynistic tropes, as a way to undermine the complainant, to demean them, to worry them and to demean their character as well - to find a nugget in there. I spoke to some therapists beforehand. They were making the point that a person, particularly somebody who was abused as a child or who may have got into a certain situation, could end up in counselling saying, "I blame myself." That would be seized upon by the defence. The Minister of State knows it would and yet we are allowing that to be done. People can blame themselves for ending up - and also because it is often a way of dealing with the situation that they are partly to blame. These are the ways that counselling notes can be abused.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  41. Only the other day, I was told that the Garda basically said, "Hand them over because if you do not, it will delay your trial." It is absolutely despicable the Government has decided that, rather than allowing this Bill progress and dealing with it as the Minister wants to on Committee Stage by putting whatever amendments, it has decided to put a year's block on this progress after it promising for years to deal with this issue. Obviously, I cannot anticipate what the Minister of State will say as to how he defends that but it is indefensible because he could easily work with this Bill. No evidence whatsoever is procured from a therapy note. Some of what I have heard is that this could be unconstitutional. The right to a fair trial is extremely important - something I would defend to the death - and it is strong in the Constitution.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  42. We have this phenomenon, which is to be welcomed, whereby survivors come out onto the court steps and wave their anonymity. They speak about their experience because they do not want it happening to somebody else. Is the Government listening? What has changed in the past few years? We still have all of the rape myths, all the victim blaming going on by the Judiciary every day, and people not having their own autonomy and their own representation. The way that this has worked in recent times is the onus is put on the victim to give their notes.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  43. She said she would take the attack again before having to set foot back in that courtroom. The Minister of State should let that rest with him that survivors are telling us this. The most heart-breaking obstacle of all, she said, was the seizure of her counselling records. After her body being violated, our courts of justice are allowing a second violation. In fact, they ordered a second violation of her mind. It was a brilliant way of describing this experience. Another survivor, Hazel, said that she worked to rebuild herself to get to know the new her. She talks about the benefit of counselling with the rape crisis team and then to find out that the perpetrator could know her thoughts, her fears, her shame and her turmoil shared during the safety of her counselling sessions. So many survivors have testified to this.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  44. Even then, the conviction rate is really low. What do we do? For those who brave those hurdles, we actually put them through a gauntlet of misogyny including things such as character references, victim blaming, what they wore, what contraception they used, if any, if they drank and if they took drugs. On top of it, their therapy notes - something to help them - can be seized by the defence. It is absolutely barbaric that we do this to survivors who go to the trouble of going to court. It is particularly cruel. On First Stage, I mentioned some of what survivors have said about this experience but I will give the Minister of State some examples quickly. Sarah, a survivor of an incredibly violent attack, said that in so many ways she found her trial more traumatic than the attack. Can Members imagine saying that?

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  45. What the presence of being able to access somebody's counselling notes does is it completely disrupts that and they have to make a choice between seeking therapy for the horrific crime committed against them or going to court. It is one or the other. As I reported today, there is a teenager who has left the child and adolescent mental health services, CAMHS, because they heard in the media that this can happen to people and they had to decide they were not going to participate any further in it. That is a horrific situation and the Government should be moving might and main. In reality, it is a bizarre Bill to have to bring forward, particularly because we have an epidemic of gender-based violence. It is estimated that 5% of people report their experience of sexual violence and only 14% of them ever get to court.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  46. We know that the police have had a huge increase in reported crime as well and we know that the WHO and the United Nations class gender-based violence as the biggest threat to the health of women and girls in the world today. Such is the importance of this issue. Sexual violence and abuse are deeply traumatic for victims and survivors. I use the terms interchangeably because not everybody wants to be classed as a victim or just as a survivor. For many, the impact can be wide-ranging and life-changing. Therapists have told me how, unfortunately, sexual violence is linked with eating disorders, self-harm, poor physical health, poor mental health, depression and, of course, suicidal ideation as well. Often therapy is the only avenue that people have to seek a way to try to cope and to deal with those issues.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  47. These are pressing issues in society. I begin by thanking the survivors in the Gallery and especially the therapists who have come here, some from Galway and all over the country, because they really wanted to make the point that they are deeply troubled at this law which compels them to break the client relationship and to break confidentiality and to go against everything therapy is meant to stand for in doing so. I really want to thank them. This week, 60 professionals wrote to the Ministers for Health and justice and made these points very strongly, which I will talk about shortly. We have to begin with the scale of violence against women, girls and LGBT+ people in the world. Women's Aid has had a record number of disclosures, as have all of the rape crisis networks.

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  48. I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time." In starting the debate on my Bill today, I am thinking in particular of the family of Annie McCarrick who disappeared 33 years ago but only now is a man being arrested in relation to that crime. Obviously, women do not disappear; something has to happen to them. We recall many other women in the 1990s who just suddenly disappeared and the State was very slow to investigate in the way it should have. I also think of the family of Tina Satchwell. For many years, justice was denied to that family and Tina was maligned. These are cases that have come up only this week. I am also thinking of the family of a teenager who allegedly suffered a sexual assault in the Ballymena area and the disgraceful way racists are using that, the issue of gender-based violence, to be racist.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  49. I ask, number one, for all TDs, particularly the Tánaiste as Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, to make contact with the Egyptian authorities and ask that these people be allowed safe passage. They are not doing anything wrong. I also ask that officials go to the airport to assist people there, where there seem to be particularly difficult situations. The Egyptian authorities, and those of the surrounding countries, do not have the right to stop people.

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  50. I send my sympathies to all affected by the crash in India. It is absolutely horrific. Thousands of people are taking part in a march to Gaza today. They are trying to break the criminal blockade which is allowing thousands of people to starve, be killed and so on. It is something the Tánaiste commended when he spoke of doing anything that can be done to keep the eyes of the world on this when world leaders are clearly not doing enough. People who are going include health workers from this country, ordinary people who cannot watch any longer as this happens. I have been told the situation is very tense in Egypt, where they are gathering, and that 190 people have been detained, including three Irish people. They are apparently being deported.

    SITTING OF 2025-06-12 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT