Victor Boyhan
Agricultural Panel · Independent · Ireland
“It also mentions the agrifood sector and the importance of diversification in agriculture, the maritime sector, coastal communities and fishing communities in terms of rural policy.”
“I know from my engagement with both the Department and the Minister that over 900 submissions to the consultation process were received. No Member or parliamentarian will have had the opportunity to consider the anonymised version of these consultations, which contain many good suggestions in favour of the regulations and many concerns in…”
“I welcome the Minister and the official to the Seanad. This is particularly important Private Members' business. I thank Senators Collins and Tully for setting out the background and the rationale behind their Private Members' motion. I acknowledge the Minister's exceptional commitment to rural Ireland and his Ministry.”
“I am conscious of the Minister's public consultation, and I acknowledge it and thank them for it, in relation to the Our Rural Future work programme in 2025. In fairness to him, he did not stop at that. I received a further update when I requested it from his office very recently.”
“This will come about through that process. It is for the Minister to decide. Maybe he will do so tomorrow when the regulations are dealt with. However, when Senators are in this Chamber discussing these regulations tomorrow, they will have no sight of any constituent who made a submission. That is my first item.”
“I am pleased to see Senator Byrne in the Leader’s chair. I wish him well in that job. I also wish him well in his new position as Government Whip. There are three items I wish to discuss today. First is the exempt development regulations, which are being covered extensively in the media.”
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“I do not see why she should not, because it is ultimately about accountability and would indicate a commitment that she, like us, is open to learn and to travel this journey with other people and, if necessary, to amend this legislation or bring in new legislation. I finish on that. I ask the Minister to consider the Civil Liability (Child Sexual Abuse Proceedings Unincorporated Bodies of Persons) Bill. There is great potential in that to hold people accountable.”
“That is the difference. Accountability must be provided in real time and not generations later. Redress must be just, transparent and fair. Advocacy and practical supports must be fully resourced. Most of the contributors today have covered all of this. I think that 12 months on, the Minister will be a lot wiser. We will have feedback from the various people who have attempted to engage with the educational and health schemes. On this side of the House, we will also be in a better position to report progress on the experiences that have been relayed to us by people using the service. I think it is a fair and reasonable amendment and I hope the Minister will be in a position to accept it.”
“We would also know more about the special advocate for victims of institutional abuse. That is really important. The Minister might support the Labour Party's civil liability (child sexual abuse proceedings against unincorporated bodies of persons) Bill 2024. I hope she looks at it favourably. Published by the Labour Party last September, the Bill would provide a remedy to the Government. The Government says it needs remedies. Here is a remedy to address the legal obstruction tactics that have been deployed by some religious orders and other associates in lay-run trusts to avoid paying the financial contribution to a redress for those who have endured abuse in institutions controlled by them. I know we are coming to the end of the debate. At the core of this is the requirement to provide accountability in real time.”
“The Minister will be familiar with it, or should be familiar with it because many of them are still running schools under her remit. I will circulate this again next Tuesday because we need to take this line by line. This was signed by Government and approved by the legal advisers to the Government. We need to deliver on it. After this 12-month period, when I have no doubt Deputy McEntee will still be the Minister for education, I hope she will be able to enlighten us on the progress she makes on that. I ask the Minister to enlighten us on whether she agrees to this report. This is about accountability to the Houses of the Oireachtas, not about what the Minister and I think, and, ultimately, to the public. She would then be able to talk about how we have learned from our experiences with Sage Advocacy, which I fully endorse and recommend.”
“I thank the Civil Engagement Group and Senator Higgins for introducing this all-encompassing, clever amendment which covers everything we have talked about. It is about accountability and the Minister coming back within 12 months of the passing of the Bill. I hope the Minister does not say this is not possible. For some reason that I do not know, nothing is possible. That is really important because there is learning from this. The Minister may be able to enlighten us in 12 months' time about the deed done on 5 June 2020 between the Minister for Finance and the Government in relation to the indemnity scheme. I have a copy of the indemnity scheme in my hand, signed and embossed by the legal agents of these religious organisations.”
“Literacy and numeracy skills and IT skills are also very important and I know the Minister provided for them but we need to be honest. I want the Minister to put it on the record of the House because people are looking in, and will be looking in over the next few days at the Oireachtas report, and if it is not in context then they do not quite really understand and miss the nuance of some of these things. All of these things are capped. To be honest, it is not a huge amount of money and the Government should keep the area under review. I simply ask the Minister to please tell me that she is committed to keeping this area under review.”
“Therefore, talk of degrees and all of this sort of thing is very admirable but I would rather talk about people who need assistance with the most basic things such as numeracy and literacy skills, and very basic IT skills because such provision is critically important. The Minister of State, Deputy Marian Harkin, and the Minister, Deputy Lawless, issued a joint statement on major grant aid the other day. Again, the statement mentioned literacy supports and it was issued by the Government on gov.ie . It would be great if the Minister for Education and Youth talked about that. It know it is a sub-brief maybe. One of the things that emerged from the engagement was the issue of education because people gain confidence from education, supports and training.”
“Many people right up to the late 1970s were basically ejected and kicked out of care at 16 or 17 years of age. There was no ambition. Many people did not even have parents. They had no-one who had a special interest in them. No one told them they were a special boy or special girl. No-one really gave a damn. No-one charted a course for the direction they might take nor tapped into their artistic, creative or academic potential. There was none of that there so people had to survive and they had to get out. People must understand that is the background for the majority though not all.”
“What I really liked about it was the re-introduction of therapy and therapeutic services to special schools, which is welcome. I genuinely think the document is really exciting and I am glad that it will be updated annually. I look forward to debating the policy in this House with the Minister very soon because it is critical to have early psychological intervention and assessment of all children at that stage. We are talking here about redress. There were a lot of minors and children in care. Through our excellent education system we pick up all of that sort of thing. We will have another opportunity on another day to discuss this and I say well done to the Minister on her policy. Many people did not have the advantages of education.”
“All we ask is that "the payments for educational services shall be subject to a review on an annual basis.” If the amendment mentioned a sum of between €6,000 to €7,000 then it would have been ruled out of order on the ground of being a charge on the Exchequer. I will take the opportunity to talk about the educational aspect, which I mentioned earlier. We know that an awful lot of people who went through institutional care had great difficulties with education. The Minister is now the Minister for education and she has a special interest in education. I welcome her education policy 2025 which she launched. I quickly scanned some of its summaries today and ask the Leader of the House to arrange a debate on this important policy.”
“I move amendment No. 16: In page 8, after line 37, to insert the following: “(6) The payments for health supports shall be subject to a review on an annual basis as the Bill currently provides for payment of €3,000 to a former resident.”. I pursued all of this debate when we discussed amendment No. 15, which I am sure the Minister noticed, and I will not repeat myself. Our next amendment is No. 19 and I take on board what the Minister said. She might accept this one. She said that she likes to take on board some amendments and support them. To date, she has accepted none, but maybe I will be pleased by her response to this amendment. Again, this a very reasonable amendment.”
“The Minister is part of a Government so is part of a collective of people who speak to one another. Quite frankly, the sum is not enough. I also did not suggest that the sum should increase from €3,000 to €6,000 or anything like that but suggested a review, which is a reasonable ask because people will look back and ask what is going on here. It is a reasonable ask. What will €3,000 get you in ten years' time? What will it get a person now? A person would be hard pressed to get supports for that. That is my response to what was said by the Minister. It is not fair or just that the Minister can give a once-off payment of €3,000 to a victim in respect of their medical needs overseas.”
“They should leave, having listened to Senators, and be able to make a case because they feel in their gut it is the right thing to do, not just come in here to play hardball because that is what they were told to do. I am listening and responding, and I think that €3,000 is, quite frankly, not enough. I asked the Minister the very simple question whether she would be in favour of a review. She is telling me she is not even in favour of having a review of the €3,000, and is not even prepared to make a case to anybody that we could look at it next year. The Minister might have said she hears what I am saying, there is a case in terms of the value of €3,000 in ten years' time, that I have made a reasonable case and that it should be kept under review.”
“The Minister's former leader, Leo Varadkar, came here and gave a very powerful speech about the Seanad in which he talked about its role as a revising Chamber and how we should examine legislation line by line and propose changes. Governments should be open to change. We are not all eejits in here and we are not all Whipped to do what the Government says every time. If that is what happens, we might as well close down this place. I would not support the retention of an Upper House in a bicameral Parliament that was basically rubber-stamping everything. That is just nonsense. Ministers should come to this Chamber with an open mind.”
“The Minister spoke about treating people fairly. A payment of €3,000 is not treating people fairly. I do not care about other schemes and keeping things equal between them. There have been many other unfair schemes. We are talking about this scheme and these particular issues. The Minister is saying, in effect, that €3,000 will have the same value in 20 years' time as it has today. She knows it is a cod and a joke and is not treating people fairly. She has accepted no amendments so far and it seems clear she will not accept any today. I can predict that now and it is not good enough. The Seanad is a revising Chamber. It is not about Ministers coming here, reading from pieces of paper and telling us they will not accept anything. That is no good. We might as well close up here if that is what happens.”
“This amendment is not asking that it go from €3,000 to €8,000 or €10,000; it is asking her to use her critical faculties and make the case for a review. In five years' time, €3,000 will not be a lot. It is not an incremental provision and it is not based on any benchmark. It is not a lot of money. Is the Minister open to making the case to keep the amount under review? It is a very simple request. The provision of €3,000 is not satisfactory but it is a start. If she were to agree it should be reviewed, which, of course, it should be, and undertake to keep it under review, that would be a reasonable and welcome move.”
“I acknowledge and agree with the points made by Senator Stephenson. She mentioned Philomena's law, which is being debated in Westminster and is very important. Michelle O'Neill had an article in the Irish Post the other day in which she talked about the new redress scheme being rolled out by the Executive. It may catch some people in the North who spent a considerable time in institutions in this State. I spoke this morning about a person in Armagh who is in that situation. People like that may fall under a UK redress scheme. It will be an interesting space to watch and I hope it will help some of them. A provision of €3,000 is not a lot of money. I hope the Minister will indicate the amount is to be kept under review.”
“I am, however, committing myself now to pursuing an agenda to have a complete audit of all figures from Caranua through the appropriate independent mechanisms that are open to us.”
“What I would say, because it is my intention to pursue it, is that there should be an audit and an investigation. I do not know if that is the Committee of Public Accounts or if it has that remit - I do not know that yet - but I certainly will be looking for it and I ask the Minister to promote the idea. Accountability is really important with regard to the administration of any funds, be they public or private or religious or non-religious. Therefore, there will clearly have to be an assessment of how that money was applied, what it was used for and the level of money that was used on administration versus support for victims of abuse. I am not asking for a response today because it involves figures, and I know the Minister does not want to tie herself up in knots about something on which she would not have the up-to-date detail.”
“There should have been a regulatory impact assessment of this Bill. That is in the report, which the Minister and Department can get; it is not me-speak. There was no regulatory impact assessment of this Bill. That is shocking, and it should not have happened.”
“I am just trying to flag this now so the Minister's official might have time to get it before we leave here today. What money is left in Caranua? It is a small amount, but I would like to see a financial statement of it and where it has gone. I would like to see the numbers who got it and the benefits of it. On that point, I thought this was a really interesting point that was highlighted in the Library and Research Service's digest: "The Department of Education has confirmed in correspondence with the Library and Research Service (L&RS) that no Regulatory Impact Assessment was performed for this Bill." That is disappointing. I will not ask the Minister to respond because we are under pressure, but I do not think I would let that happen on my watch if I was a Minister, and I hope the Minister will not let it happen in future.”
“I am conscious of time. The Minister made the point about winding down to provide the supports. We do not have to wind down. We can wind down Caranua. We should have been providing supports anyway. The supports should never have been conditional on Caranua. We know they were processed. We know people went through a process of redress and were interviewed, etc. These are most basic supports. Caranua could have done anything, or it might never have been established, but these supports should have always been forthcoming. They should never have been conditional on winding down Caranua. We will have another opportunity on a later section of this Bill to talk about where all that money went, the stewardship of all that money and the accountability.”
“He had a very sad story to tell. Everywhere he went, he met closed doors. As I said before, it is not necessarily always about legislation. It is about doing the right thing and providing the humanitarian, human response.”
“For any of those people, for example, those who were in the Spiritans, with whom I have been in touch in the past few days, if they are looking in and seeing this, given it has been going on for 27 or 30 years, they will be saying they had better get some sort of package going locally because they could not endure all of this and could not endure this length of time. It has gone on unreasonably and many people are elderly. I met a man some weeks ago who did not successfully get through his process in terms of identifying his documentation but he was very nearly there. I met him in Ballinasloe with some colleagues. His daughter rang me three or four weeks ago to say that he had died. I want to put on record my thanks to Councillor Evelyn Parsons, who very much supported him and his family in trying to get to the real story. Sadly, he died.”
“I would like to think that, rather than read from a sheet of paper, the Minister could say that she, Helen McEntee, was committed to touching base with her colleagues in Cabinet to pursue an ambition and objective to recognise that there was a need for a pension support and a special health package for the people that were included in this, and, moreover, that we knew there will be even more people in the future. I will finish on this point because I do not want to prolong the debate unnecessarily. The Minister made the point that, in a few weeks or months, we will also have the schools. I know we will have a lot more coming down the track.”
“She is one of the key decision-makers. I was asking for the Minister to commit. It is about being a stakeholder. Is the Minister committed? Will she give this House an undertaking that she will go away and make a strong case for a pension for the farmed-out people? The Minister represents a rural constituency and I am sure she has heard stories about what happened there. There is a case to be made for a pension for them and also for medical card assistance. They have a critical need for support. We are not talking about a huge cohort of people. One of the big problems is quantifying those numbers and no one has really been able to quantify the numbers out there.”
“I hear what the Minister is saying but let us be honest. There are caps on the funding and the money is not realistic. There are caps on the health assistance. The Minister made the point about the HAA and the special needs. Mental health is a health issue and it is very hard to quantify that. There are people who want mental health supports and cannot afford them. It is expensive, there are long lists and there is the educational stuff. These are all caps. I hear what the Minister is saying but, as she has identified, the big thing is those who are excluded. I have raised Westbank three times with the Minister. I could be a happy man leaving here today, knowing of the Minister's calibre and commitment in government, and the high esteem she is held in. She is in a very critical position and is sitting around the Cabinet table every week.”
“On those who were boarded out, the medical card and the HAA card are two things we should have. I would be a happier man leaving here today if the Minister could say that she personally believes providing a HAA card is the right thing to do, that she is personally committed to some sort of pension and acknowledgement of child labour, whether in industrial schools, in industrial laundries or on the farms of Ireland, and that she will personally advocate to see these things commenced at some point through some vehicle of legislation.”
“That is how serious it is. Unless you are impacted by this, you do not really understand. None of us really understand how lonely it is for these people to navigate life, particularly in old age. Surely we, as a State, can support them and help them in some way. We should have a pension for them. The Minister is going to tell me something else today. She has come with a script and has a job to do. I also have a job to do. Mine is to advocate for this particular area of concern. There should be social pensions. It is simply not good enough that nothing has been done about it for the last few years. The Government has had a very long time to bring this in. I do not refer to the Minister personally. Nothing I ever say here is personal. I take it that applies on both sides and I accept it from the Minister as well.”
“We have that innate quality to survive against the odds. Some of us manage better than others, albeit with many setbacks and falls. It is not unreasonable to include these children, these slaves, who were to be found in counties Meath, Kildare and Donegal and all over the place and whom the Minister's parents and family members of another generation would know of. We need to send a very clear message. It is not too much to give them a special pension or some sort of official top-up or recognition. We have known this has been coming down the line for years. I will go back to 2019, when there was talk of the need for some support in elderly life. Many of these people have no partners. Through no fault of their own, they have not been able to develop secure, loving and meaningful relationships. They are disadvantaged.”
“We hear about doctorates and degrees but I have not seen too much about simpler training and support services. The Minister will know about the payscale. While I mean no disrespect to anyone, I do not believe there will be too many people knocking on the Minister's door. She will not be washed out providing money for honorary doctorates and degrees. I will put this in context because it is really important. When you are incarcerated in an institution from a very early age, your confidence is gone and your emotions are impacted. You close down. You are not stupid but you do not have the capacity to concentrate, to learn or to receive positive messages, whether educational, emotional or social. People who are struggling face many boundaries and hindrances. Their antennae of alertness are highly attuned because it is about survival.”
“No parental consent was given for these commercial drug trials. Doctors have testified they were involved in them. Drug companies paid these institutions money. All of this has after-effects but somehow it is not possible to provide medical cards. We know about the hepatitis scandal and other issues. It is not unreasonable to ask for a medical card for people. It does not wash with me that we cannot speak about it today or that we should do so some other day. There is no other day. We are winding this down today. The Government's legislation has two principles. The first is to wind down Caranua, the support agency, and its funding. I do not know how much funding is left but we will come to that when discussing another section later on. The second is to put in place educational supports.”
“Through very decent people in pharmacology in UCD and with the help of "Today Tonight", the forerunner of "Prime Time", I procured evidence of these drug trials. The right to bodily integrity is enshrined in our Constitution. I acknowledge Alan Shatter because he gave us a lot of initial support at the time. The Taoiseach of this country is on the record of these Houses as making this commitment. He has had a long and distinguished political career and I salute him for that. Did I ever think I would be standing here? Did I ever think he would be in the next building as Taoiseach of our country? I looked at the record of this House today and he committed to seeing an end to all of this. Surely it is incumbent on the Government he leads to give support to providing medical cards.”
“We talk about this great agricultural country that we are and yet these men were farmed out as slaves. We think of all of the women who were sent to institutions and who worked in industrial laundries. Many of us, including the Minister and I, know of them. Some of them, although not all, were also excluded. I cannot understand why we cannot put in place a medical card. I particularly think of the drug trials because I lived in an institution where drug trials took place. Indeed, I was in this very house nearly 27 years ago when Micheál Martin was involved in advocacy on the issue. Later on, when he was Minister for Health and Children, he spoke about great commitments and three trial institutions, Bessborough and two in Dublin, were investigated. Wellcome, now part of GlaxoSmithKline, was involved in those trials.”
“These were horrific cases. I think of two men who came to us. Many Members of the previous Seanad would have met them because they were guests of mine and I made a point of introducing them to people. They were farmed out. Both of them came from Tuam. I think today of Tuam and the brave Catherine Corless. That issue will be on our agenda next week or the week after. We will come in and meet people and we will all be shocked and disgusted about what happened there. Politicians in both Houses will issue a load of platitudes. However, we have to judge people by what they do. These two people were farmed out of Tuam so all of this is raw enough for them. They were slave labourers. They lived in barns and ate out of troughs. They were treated like dirt and they are excluded. We have done nothing for them.”
“I talked about my engagement with support groups for Irish people in Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and London. Loads of these people are not involved. My sister is involved in an Irish lunch club in south-east London. I have gone over there and met the people involved. They knew nothing about redress schemes. They were excluded. They did not know about it. We failed to communicate that. We closed the door. I have been told we do not want to open the floodgates. I have no problem with opening any floodgates if it means providing truth, justice, redress and compensation to these people because they are entitled to it. They are entitled to a bit of decency at the end of their lives. Senator Curley talked about social pensions. I have said it before and I will say it again: I have brought people in here who were farmed out.”
“I also extend a welcome to Councillor O'Heney and everyone in the Gallery. I will refer to the section. It is very interesting. I opened earlier by talking about the consultation with survivors of institutional abuse and the themes and issues that were addressed in July 2019. It is now 2025 but back then, in 2019, the issue of access to the HAA medical card was raised. There is nothing new here. There are budgetary processes involved but let us not cod ourselves; the will is not there to give access to that card. The HAA medical card is given in very exceptional circumstances. I talked earlier about those who were excluded. We keep forgetting about that issue. Every time I raise it, the Minister does not address it. I told her about the people at Westbank Orphanage and many other institutions who have been excluded.”
“Timing is everything in the parliamentary political process when we are bringing in legislation. Going back to what Senator Stephenson says in this amendment, we must unequivocally send out a message that we are committed to Sage, to the principle of a special advocate, and to the principle of expanding the role and remit of that special advocate to help people journey on their way to get the supports they absolutely need.”
“I get from the Minister and others this premise about the cost, that we spent so much money. Yes, we spent a lot of money but we are talking about a generation in their 50s, 60s and 70s, many of them with health issues and challenges. Let us not compromise on this issue of support. The Minister talks about collaboration and I welcome that. I want her to ask the Minister, Deputy Foley, this week whether she will agree to publish the special advocate report that is on her desk. In that report, if we had it today, we could make stronger cases. There is a report on the Minister, Deputy Foley's desk. She is considering it. I am not suggesting she is doing anything more sinister than that. If I had it in my hand today I could stand up here and put it into the public domain. I have a fair idea what is in it. It is shocking and challenging.”
“The liberation of knowing you can come with your head high and say, "What happened to me was not because of me. I did not contribute to it." You cannot put a price on that. The State has to put in place some resource that will help people to navigate. I said this morning that it is a long road with many turns and setbacks. People need to be assisted to navigate that road. Far too many people have been broken down and destroyed. Far too many of our people have had to get out of this country, to run away to nothing, just to run away and forget their past. We owe it to them. I am committed. My political life for however long I am here will be committed to advocating for quality of justice. We have to have justice for people. We have to believe in people and support them.”
“It is because the State did not pursue the religious orders who signed up to the indemnity scheme, of which I have a copy in front of me, for the money that was due. If the Minister or anyone else was owed money they would be chasing it up. There is a softly, softly approach in terms of responding. If someone tells me one more time that we have spent €1 billion - I do not care what anyone has spent. It is about justice, healing, redress and acknowledgement. So many people tell me the same story and I tell it to myself, that one day I will be free to tell my story and one day I will be believed. Every victim, survivor or affected person through abuse in institutions or schools, be they State, religious or neither, will want to be believed.”
“One thing about this Bill is in respect of those who are excluded. There are too many people excluded from this legislation. The Minister talks about Sage and I welcome all of that, and also the advocate. This morning I had a Commencement matter in respect of Westbank in Greystones, at the heart of the Tánaiste's constituency. I have a substantial file on communication and promises by people in respect of Westbank. They have been excluded. We know that the mother and baby homes commission recommended they be included. We get these grand responses saying that they can be added in the Schedule of the redress. We are winding down. Caranua is being wound down today under this legislation. Why is that happening? To link the matter to this particular amendment, it is about the resources for this counselling and support service.”
“There should be a fully resourced - I use the word "resourced" in a broad sense - and multifunctional service that interacts with the HSE and other State agencies. In this way, people can be guaranteed that this thing is going to be in place. I am referring to these two critical pieces of support infrastructure, namely, Sage Advocacy - Damian O'Farrell has done amazing work in this area and I know him very well - and the special advocate, Patricia Carey. How can we be sure that those offices will be continuously empowered to give professional services to the people who need them the most?”
“With great fanfare, he and the then Government announced the special advocate for survivors, but I received a letter yesterday from someone who had contacted it and been told that the matter was outside the service's remit, so the service could not help that person. What is this grand job of special advocate for survivors of institutional abuse, which is funded by the State? I know it is within the remit of the Department of children as opposed to the Department of education but we are not in a vacuum in here. There is an all-of-Government approach to all of these issues. What we need to put in place are not promises and hopes. Rather, we need to give these people what they are entitled to.”
“The current advocate is Patricia Carey. It is not about the person, it is about the office, but she has done amazing work, travelled overseas, met people in Liverpool, Manchester and London and has linked them into services. It is important that someone has trust, can talk to people in confidence and can link them in. It goes back to what Senator Stephenson said about appropriate interventions and supports. I ask the Minister for some concrete suggestions as well as guarantees that these two offices - this includes Sage Advocacy, which the Minister fully endorses, and I agree with her in that regard, as it does great work - have the remit to provide professional care and support. I looked at Roderic O'Gorman's press release on gov.ie this morning.”
“The State had oversight of all of this and it, too, has a responsibility. That is the thing that somehow people are forgetting in this great debate. It is incumbent on the State and on us as legislators to put measures in place and to reassure people. This is not going away. Next week, we will have the Spiritans. In a few weeks' time, we will have St. John Ambulance Ireland back in Leinster House. We have a number of religious orders, also. A lot of things are going on and there are a lot of lay organisations, such as the scout movement. I could list them on and on. The system we put in place is important. The title of "special advocate for survivors of institutional abuse" gives a sense that, but it does not appear to be a long-term strategy for the Government to keep this office in place, so I want to hear about that from the Minister.”
“Either people are committed or not. There are budgetary processes and other cases. I want some sort of assurance. Actually, it is not me, but the people who are outside listening in or who, when we send out the link to this video tonight and put it out into the media, will want to hear that. Forget this tone deaf stuff. They want to be able to say that we have a Minister and parliamentarians from all sides of this House who are committed to putting in place the appropriate professional supports that they can have confidence in and need. This is not an interim gap and most of these people involved are over 60 years of age. There are not many of them around but they need the comforts and support for their lives. We must never forget that it is not all about abuse at the hands of the religious and lay people.”
“I have taken the trouble to download all of the links to this, since external people cannot see it, and it is going up on a particular website on Monday, I believe. It raises a number of issues. I just want to speak in support of the amendment. We need to be very careful in what we are doing here today. At the end of the day, we cannot keep giving excuses. This has gone on for years and years. Child sex abuse is a devastating crime. It shatters the lives of the victims and causes deep and lasting pain. This afternoon, we in these Houses have an opportunity to do something about it and to respond to their needs and requests. It is all very well to talk about the cost to the Exchequer but the current Administration has been in power for a long time in one guise or another. Nothing new is coming down the tracks here.”
“That sends out a negative signal about what is a long-term commitment. I wish to take Members’ through a few things. The consultation on survivors of institutional abuse and the themes and issues addressed by the survivor consultation group made a substantial number of recommendations. It is about having confidence in counselling, support and advocacy. It is about it being professional and appropriate to the special sets of circumstances and needs. That is important. While I am on my feet, I wish to acknowledge the great work of our library research team. I say this every time, but the team did an extensive Bills Digest on this Bill and shone a light on many aspects that never came out in the debate.”
“Amendments were ruled out of order. I ask the Leas-Chathaoirleach to read out the reasons. While I am on my feet, I will touch on what Senator Stephenson said. I support her in her work on this amendment. It is important, particularly as regards the issue of professional advocacy. I note the Minister’s commentary on Sage Advocacy, which is doing amazing work and I have every hope for it. This needs to be put on a clear basis, though. When Senator Stephenson talks about the professional supports and agencies, we need to know that. The Minister might shine a bit of light on this matter later. The special advocate has limited functions. I sought to put the role of the special advocate on a statutory footing, but that does not seem to meet with the approval of the Government.”