Dominic Bradley
Newry and Armagh · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a ráitis. Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí den Aire cad é an tionchar a bheas ag na ciorruithe Thuaidh agus Theas ar obair Fhoras na Gaeilge san am atá romhainn? I thank the Minister for her statement.”
“<BR /> <BR />Obviously, the £95,000 cap is at the heart of the matter. As others mentioned, there is concern amongst the representatives of public service workers about this issue. The Committee heard from several trade unions, including UNISON and NIPSA.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Thank you very much, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. Yes, there have been a number of reservations expressed about the use of the LCM in this context.”
“It also said that the Department of Finance and Personnel's decisions were not based on evidence, either qualitative or quantitative. <BR /> <BR />Responses to the original consultation argued that the current changes would impact negatively on older people.”
“Those challenges could be on the basis of breach of contract, unlawful deductions of earnings based on the contractual right to payment, and on the unfair application of waivers, which could lead to inconsistency across employing authorities.”
“The Bill as it stands will negatively impact on many public servants and change their contractual rights. The proper legislative authority on this matter should remain with the Assembly here, and the LCM does not give the Assembly the opportunity to exercise its authority fully and to scrutinise, according to its role, the detail.”
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“Shifting health-care delivery from the expensive hospital model to caring for people in the community is at the heart of this, but the plan continues not to be properly funded, and targets are not being met.”
“I thank the Member for the promotion and for the intervention. Of course, I totally agree with what he has to say. <BR /> <BR />I turn to health. The SDLP has recognised that there are great difficulties at the heart of the health service. There is no strategic plan, and the health-care system is crumbling at its knees. This morning, we had a report on the health system that pointed to major weaknesses. Indeed, barely a week goes by when stresses in the system do not make the headlines. During the Christmas period, we saw the difficulties in A&E and the cancellation of operations. We do, of course, welcome the £204 million additional funding to protect our front-line service, but questions remain over the delivery of the core strategic plan that is Transforming Your Care.”
“For example, this could mean a hit of £560,000 for Derry City and Strabane District Council and around £400,000 for the new council that will hopefully be named Newry, Mourne, Down and Gullion Council. This could mean higher rates bills for many citizens, including those who can least afford them.”
“While, as part of the final Budget, an allocation was made for the statutory derating grant paid to councils, that will only restore the existing and inadequate provision for the derating grant. DOE is statutorily required to pay this, and the amounts are determined by derating policies applied by the Department of Finance and Personnel. So, the consequence of the proposed allocation to DOE is likely to be an across-the-board cut in the order of 15% having to be applied to all other spending programmes. It will make it impossible for the Minister to provide financial assistance to local government through the rates support grant. This will affect all councils, but it will have a significant adverse impact on councils that are less well off.”
“This is a revised Budget. There has been some change in it, but there is room for more change. I say this particularly in reference to the financing of the Department of the Environment. <BR /> <BR />The DOE is facing the highest percentage budget reduction across the whole of the public service. The proposed allocation to DOE will certainly adversely impact on financial assistance to councils, particularly to the less wealthy councils. During the consultation on this Budget, the Minister of the Environment asked the Finance Minister to ring-fence grants to councils. That was to enable them to have a sound basis for local government reform. Unfortunately, this did not happen.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. When the Minister introduced the debate, I was musing on his journey through a number of quotations. It is interesting to note that, during this budgetary process, he began by quoting a revolutionary socialist: Nelson Mandela. He then moved on to an American social democrat, John F Kennedy, and, today, he quoted a high Tory, Winston Churchill. So, I am wondering whether there is a story in that progression through those quotations. The Minister said that the Budget was not perfect, and he was encouraging us to quote from Churchill, so I will quote from Churchill, who said:”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Go raibh míle maith agat as sin. Does the Minister agree that in the history of the development of Irish-medium education there is a very clear trend that provision increases demand and lack of provision thwarts demand?”
“Minister, thank you for giving way. You are telling us that a non-existent unit in Craigavon will have better outcomes. We already have an excellent unit in Daisy Hill in Newry, which, to our minds, and the statistics prove it, produces excellent outcomes. <BR /> <BR />As I said earlier, if it ain't broke, why fix it? Certainly, there is no reason to dismantle it.”
“I fully accept the Minister's point that the centralisation of services gives the opportunity for the best possible treatment in a certain speciality. None of us would disagree with that. However, the fact is that, in relation to Daisy Hill Hospital and stroke services, a centre of excellence exists there at the moment. To our minds, the best course of action would be to build on the excellence that has grown and developed there.”
“Is this improving accessibility? I say no, it is not. I ask the Minister to look again at this decision. If the centre of excellence is needed, it should be where the excellence is, which is at Daisy Hill Hospital in Newry.”
“The geographical relocation of the unit to Craigavon presents huge difficulties for people in the areas that are served by the hospital, particularly the rural areas of south Down and south Armagh. The A27 is not a road which facilitates speedy transfer of patients by ambulance or easy access to visits by family members, not least because it is one of the roads that has the most bends on it. I do not know whether Mr Kennedy — he is gone now — can do anything about that: probably not. It is difficult to access it from Newry; much more difficult from Crossmaglen, Annalong, Forkhill, Attical, Killean, Hilltown, Cullaville or indeed Cabra. <BR /> <BR />As we know, 70% of stroke patients are over the age of 65. As Mr Brady said, many of their spouses and family members may be of similar age, with poor mobility and health in some cases.”
“After initial stabilisation in Daisy Hill, patients will travel to Craigavon and spend 16 days being treated there before returning to Daisy Hill. The question arises as to what they will return in Daisy Hill. Will it be a general ward or a general rehabilitation ward? The existing unit in Daisy Hill is considered to be excellent, and Daisy Hill has access to brain imaging. On this occasion, we should remember the old adage: "if it isn't broke, don't fix it." Certainly do not dismantle it. <BR /> <BR />At the moment, Daisy Hill meets the Royal College of Surgeons national clinical guidelines, but if these changes are made, it will no longer meet those criteria. As Mr Brady said, Daisy Hill has the best record for rehabilitation — 17 days, which compares very favourably with other hospitals, some of which have a stay length of 47 days.”
“Orthopaedic patients were being taken out of the hospital; we stopped that move. Switchboard services were to be centralised; they are still in Daisy Hill. The hydrotherapy pool was to be closed; it is still there and has been refurbished. While some administrative services have left the hospital, the important services have been retained. I welcome the developments and the investments in the hospital and the cross-border services that it provides. I am proud of the hospital, and I fully support the staff. <BR /> <BR />As Mr Brady mentioned earlier, there is concern about the plan to centralise stroke beds outside of Daisy Hill. The proposal is that Craigavon Area Hospital will be the centre of excellence for stroke patients.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank Mrs McKevitt for bringing the debate to the Floor. Down through the years, the SDLP has been to the fore of efforts to ensure that Daisy Hill Hospital in Newry retained its status and that important services were not removed from it. Despite what Mr Brady says, I want to pay tribute to my colleague Councillor John McArdle of Newry, who has fought long and hard on many occasions to protect services in Daisy Hill. I mention him today because he retires from public life at the end of March and I may not have the opportunity to do so again in the House. <BR /> <BR />As I said, at various times, efforts were made to remove services from Daisy Hill and those were strenuously and successfully opposed. There was a proposal to remove the laboratories; we fought that and won.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht an fhreagra chuimsithigh sin. Ba mhaith liom a fhiafraí den Aire arbh fhéidir leis a rá cá huair a bhainfidh sé úsáid as na cumhachtaí atá aige maidir le cinntí pleanála rialtais áitiúil a ghlaoch isteach chuige? I thank the Minister for his answer. When will he exercise the call-in mechanism in respect of planning decisions taken by local government?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Will the First Minister agree that a Westminster-style Public Accounts Committee would add considerably to the scrutiny of public expenditure here?”
“He previously told us there was no more money available; there was no point talking to the British Government. Well, he has spoken to them — all the parties have spoken to them — and apparently there is. I am glad he has taken his lead from the SDLP. <BR /> <BR />My question to the Minister is in relation to the additional money for education. Will the money go to front-line services to ensure that services, especially for children with special educational needs and with literacy and numeracy difficulties, are maintained, and that pupil:teacher ratios remain at their current level?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. What I welcome about the Minister's statement is his Damascus-like conversion.”
“During my speech, I mentioned that there was £500 million in the Stormont House Agreement for education. I know that that has been designated as capital, but previous negotiations have allowed capital to be converted into resource. That is an avenue that we should go down to get more money for education across the whole gamut.”
“— front-line services. That will alleviate the problems in the situation that schools, teachers and pupils find themselves in.”
“Perhaps some creative thinking on behalf of the Department will lead to some of that money being diverted to —”
“Others have referred to the fact that, to have a healthy economy, we must have a healthy, thriving, effective and efficient education system. These cuts will not lead to that. There was reference to the division of the education budget between the aggregated schools budget and the amount that goes to administration. The figures may be disputed, but perhaps the Minister will look at this area and attempt to give the schools more money. The schools know best how the money can be best used, especially at the chalkface. <BR /> <BR />The Stormont agreement has provided us with a pot of gold. How much of that pot of gold will go to front-line services? I note that £500 million has been apportioned to shared and integrated education. Perhaps the Minister can tell us what degree of flexibility there is within that particular pot of money.”
“If we had higher pupil:teacher ratios, we would have greater teacher workload, leading to greater stress on teachers and a reduction in absentee cover, all of which would create a dispirited workforce. There would not be much development for the education workforce under those circumstances. How will overcrowding in classrooms and fewer teacher/pupil resources improve the learning environment? <BR /> <BR />I spent 25 years teaching, and I know well from first-hand experience the impact that these cuts will have. If these unprecedented draft Budget proposals are imposed on the education sector, our schools' capacity to facilitate our young people's aspirations to take their place in the world and make a positive contribution will be seriously undermined.”
“If we look at the Department's stated aims, we see that the first of its primary aims is to raise standards for all. These cuts will lead to larger classes and to higher pupil:teacher ratios. How can we raise standards under those circumstances? The likely outcome of that situation is a drop in standards. The Department also aims to close the performance gap and to increase access and equity, but if we have a reduction in the number of classroom assistants and reduced special needs provision, how can we close the performance gap, increase access and achieve equity? The simple answer is that it is going to be extremely difficult. <BR /> <BR />The Department also seeks to develop the education workforce.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Éirím an iarraidh seo le tacaíocht a thabhairt do leasú an SDLP. I rise on this occasion to support the amendment proposed by the SDLP. <BR /> <BR />There is no doubt about it: the proposed reduction in the aggregated schools budget — 8% at primary-school level and 7% at secondary-school level — is serious. That is no overstatement. The total figure amounts to £87 million. Although some Members have said that the Minister has embarked on a scaremongering crusade to blackmail his colleagues into coughing up more money, there is no doubt that the proposed cuts will negatively impact on every school, classroom, pupil and teacher.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire fosta as ucht a fhreagra. Is í an cheist a ba mhaith liomsa a chur air ná an bhfeictear don Aire go bhfuil féidearthachtaí eile ann maidir le forbairt na gaelscolaíochta iar-bhunoideachais. I thank the Minister for his answer. Does he see any further potential for the development of Irish-medium education at post-primary level?”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas fosta leis an Aire as ucht a freagra agus as ucht a beannachta, agus, mar an gcéadna, guím athbhliain faoi mhaise uirthi agus tá súil agam go n-éiríonn go geal léi sa bhliain atá romhainn. I thank the Minister for her good wishes and wish her a happy new year and all the best for the year that lies ahead. <BR /> <BR />Tá ceist agam a ba mhaith liom a chur ar an Aire faoi thionchar na ngearrthacha ar na grúpaí éagsúla ealaíne anseo sa Tuaisceart. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the cuts to the arts sector on the various groupings within that sector? Does she feel that it is necessary to use an equality impact assessment (EQIA)?”
“That said, the motion before us today, notwithstanding the issues I have raised, including those to be addressed by the Minister and Department, the Committee agrees that the LCM is a necessary first step to address a legal loophole, especially in the current financial climate. <BR /> <BR />Ar an ábhar sin, a Cheann Comhairle, ar son an Choiste Airgeadais agus Pearsanra, tacaím leis an Aire Airgeadais agus Pearsanra agus é ar lorg tacaíocht an Tionóil don rún áirithe seo atá os ár gcomhair inniu. On behalf of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, I support the Minister of Finance and Personnel in seeking the Assembly’s agreement to the LCM that is before us today. Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle.”
“<BR /> <BR />This concern with how the LCM process can constrain scrutiny is all the more pertinent in the wider context of moves to strengthen the devolved arrangements. I consider that, if sufficient notification is not provided in cases involving substantive legislative provisions, closer consideration will need to be given to whether an Assembly Bill would be the more appropriate vehicle for legislating in the devolved context. I therefore ask the Minister to ensure that all the relevant senior officials in his Department remain mindful of this requirement and endeavour to keep the Committee abreast of developments in respect of any further potential LCMs as they emerge in future.”
“<BR /> <BR />As the Committee has pointed out previously, earlier notification of the potential need for LCMs is required on two fronts: firstly, from the responsible Whitehall Department to the responsible devolved Department and, secondly, from the Department here to the respective Assembly Committee. This is especially necessary when the legislative provisions covered by the LCM are significant or substantive in nature. When such early notification has been provided by DFP on previous occasions — the LCM on the devolution of long-haul air passenger duty (APD) being a case in point — it has enabled the Committee to begin gathering comprehensive evidence and undertaking the necessary engagement with relevant stakeholders at an early stage and prior to the commencement of the very limited 15-day timetable provided for in Standing Orders.”
“Nonetheless, the Committee identified several pertinent issues such as the need for local guidance, the need for a thorough post-implementation review and what that review should examine, as well as the case for tailoring future arrangements to the particular public sector context in Northern Ireland. As on previous occasions, the Committee has endeavoured to complete its scrutiny of the LCM within an extremely tight time frame. That time frame is inadequate, and, once again, there is a need to highlight the case for a refinement of the LCM process, with early warning of possible LCMs and more time built into the process of legislating for devolved matters.”
“Members were also concerned about the implementation of the legislative provisions and what compliance monitoring, if any, would take place. Departmental officials assured members that there would be a post-implementation review examining the impact of the legislation. However, as part of this exercise, the Committee urges the Department to also examine the appropriateness of the £100,000 salary level in the local context; in particular, whether a lower threshold would be more applicable here and as regards how the legislation impacts on different parts of the public sector here. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, the Committee was able to undertake only a cursory consideration of the issues given the time constraints associated with legislative consent motions and that process.”
“DFP officials assured the Committee that, by agreeing to the LCM, the Assembly would not constrain itself and could tailor arrangements to local circumstances and, indeed, take a more radical approach in the future, if necessary. The Minister referred to that in his initial remarks. I regard this as an important and necessary assurance in informing today’s decisions.”
“The Minister could also take the opportunity to address points raised by the FDA, which provided the Committee with a copy of its previous submission on the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill, specifically the section relating to the recovery of public sector exit payments. <BR /> <BR />As will be evident from a reading of the Committee’s report on the LCM, members acknowledge the need for legislative reform in this area during a time of constraint on the public purse. However, the Committee has also highlighted other pertinent issues. It stated that the LCM might be only a necessary first step and that the arrangements being put in place might not go far enough in this regard.”
“Nonetheless, the Committee obtained an informal response from representatives of the Northern Ireland Public Sector Alliance (NIPSA) and correspondence from the First Division Association (FDA). NIPSA highlighted the fact that the proposed legislation would most likely impact most on the health and social care sector, which has more employees earning over the £100,000 threshold. Furthermore, the Committee understands that exit payments for voluntary and compulsory redundancies are included in the scope of the legislation and that NIPSA has raised concerns with the inclusion of compulsory redundancy situations. Perhaps the Minister will wish to place on record during today's debate the rationale for the inclusion of compulsory redundancy payments in the provisions.”
“I note that, during the debate, the Minister has referred to 12 months. Perhaps he will clarify whether that is the short space of time that he has in mind. Finally, members also asked for the basis for the exclusion relating to a person’s contractual entitlement. In responding to the Committee's queries, DFP officials assured members that guidance would be provided on how a "short space of time" will be defined. However, the session raised other issues that I will elaborate on in a moment. <BR /> <BR />Legislative consent motions, by their nature, are time-limited, so the opportunity for the Committee to engage meaningfully with interested stakeholders has been restricted.”
“During the session, members heard that the proposed provisions would allow for the recovery of redundancy and compensation payments made to those earning £100,000 or more in certain circumstances; the amount requiring payback would be on a graduated basis; and the provisions would not apply to redundancy payments where individuals have a right to full, unreduced, employer-funded early retirement pension. <BR /> <BR />In addition, members raised issues and queries with officials. They asked why the threshold of earnings was set at £100,000 and not at a lower sum; why the provisions were being limited to those being re-employed in the same part of the public sector as opposed to all parts of the public sector; and how the condition of not being re-employed within a short space of time will be defined.”
“However, the Bill also contains measures to recover redundancy and compensation payments from individuals who exit a role in the public service and then return to the same part of the public service in a short space of time. The Minister advised the Committee that he intended to extend those measures to Northern Ireland to safeguard public finances through the use of the legislative consent motion that is before us today. <BR /> <BR />After being first informed of the potential need for such an LCM on 12 November 2014, the Committee sought an urgent briefing from departmental officials as soon as possible thereafter. That took place on 19 November 2014.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat arís, a Cheann Comhairle. Ar son an Choiste Airgeadais agus Pearsanra, ba mhaith liom tacaíocht ghinearálta a thabhairt don rún seo atá faoinár mbráid anois. <BR /> <BR />On behalf of the Committee for Finance and Personnel, I express general support for the motion. The details of the Committee’s deliberations on the legislative consent motion were set out in a short report that was circulated to all MLAs and published online on 18 December 2014. I shall, however, summarise the key points now for Members’ convenience and for the record. <BR /> <BR />As has been outlined, the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill contains measures primarily aimed at supporting small businesses by improving access to finance.”
“Aside from such points of clarification, and after considering the evidence, the Committee for Finance and Personnel agreed its report supporting the proposal for the legislative consent motion. This was circulated to all MLAs in advance of the debate. <BR /> <BR />Ar an ábhar sin, ar son an Choiste Airgeadais agus Pearsanra, tacaím leis an rún seo. On behalf of the Committee, I support the motion.”
“A further point highlighted by the Northern Ireland Committee, Irish Congress of Trade Unions was that the Westminster legislation should cover all public-service pension schemes, including funded schemes such as the local government pension schemes. At its meeting on 19 November 2014, the Committee sought clarification from the Department on this issue. In response, the officials advised that whilst the legislative provisions apply to all unfunded schemes, they do not extend to funded schemes, since those operate on a separate basis. The Committee did not have the opportunity to explore the rationale for the provisions not covering all public-service pension schemes here, including the LGPS, so it would be helpful if the Minister could further clarify that point today.”
“<BR /> <BR />To further inform its consideration of the issues, the Committee wrote to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) for its views on the proposals. In response, ICTU confirmed that it was supportive of the provisions and the use of the LCM mechanism in this instance, explaining that the:”
“Also, whilst forecasting of costs had yet to be undertaken at a local level, the Department's understanding was that the trade unions agreed in principle to safeguard the existing schemes, since without these safeguards the cost-control mechanisms could be impacted, which could thereby have a detrimental impact on members in the event of a run on these schemes. <BR /> <BR />Departmental officials also advised that DFP had been liaising with Treasury on its findings on the equality implications, which will supplement the equality considerations that will be undertaken by the Department. On this point, I would be grateful if the Minister could, upon the completion of this work, provide the findings for the Committee's consideration.”
“Given that the LCM will restrict the flexibilities being extended to affected scheme members, the Committee questioned DFP officials to establish the implications of not progressing the LCM, the level of engagement with trade unions and any potential equality implications. In response, DFP advised that, in overall terms across the jurisdictions, there would be a cost to the public purse of some £200 million in the event that 1% of those who are reaching the retirement age in the public-service pension schemes elected to transfer their rights in order to take advantage of the new flexibilities.”
“<BR /> <BR />Under current rules, it is possible for a member of a public-service defined benefit scheme to transfer their rights to a defined contribution scheme. After the introduction of the flexibilities in April 2015, members exercising this choice would then be permitted to access their pension pots flexibly under the new rules. <BR /> <BR />Unfunded public-service pension schemes, which include the Civil Service, police officers, firefighters, teachers and health workers, have no such fund of assets. <BR /> <BR />At its meeting of 5 November 2014, the Committee was briefed by DFP on the proposed legislative consent motion.”
“Go raibh míle maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Tá áthas orm labhairt ar an rún seo ar son an Choiste Airgeadais agus Pearsanra. I am pleased to speak on the motion on behalf of the Committee for Finance and Personnel. <BR /> <BR />The Minister wrote to the Committee on 21 October 2014 to advise it that he had sought approval from the Executive to have the applicable provisions of the Westminster Pension Schemes Bill extended to Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />As the Minister indicated, as part of the Budget 2014, the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced the introduction of flexibility in the way that members of defined contribution pension schemes can access their pension pot, which essentially will permit members to draw down their savings as a lump sum as opposed to the current practice, which requires the purchase of an annuity.”
“On that note, Mr Speaker, I thank you and all those who contributed to today's debate. Molaim an tuairisc. I recommend the Committee's report to the House.”
“As I draw my remarks to a close, let me say that the draft Budget covers just one financial year, but now, more than ever, we need to put the necessary arrangements in place for future Budgets. The vital role that the Assembly will need to play over the coming years will be our test to demonstrate to those who elected us that devolution is working effectively and efficiently. <BR /> <BR />Before I close, I note that the Minister, during his comprehensive response to today's debate, omitted to respond to the various specific recommendations outlined in the Committee's report on the draft Budget. I take this opportunity to request that the Minister respond in writing to the coordinated report in due course. <BR /> <BR />Ag an phointe seo, a Cheann Comhairle, tá mo sháith ráite agam, agus gabhaim buíochas leatsa agus leis na Comhaltaí uilig.”
“In this regard, and in the actions being recommended by the Committee, some further words of President Kennedy's are apt, namely his observation:”
“and it could provide added assurance and serve to boost public confidence in the Executive’s Budget plans and decisions going forward. <BR /> <BR />Developments subsequent to the publication of the draft Budget further highlight the need for such added assurance, not least some of the financial outworkings of the Stormont House Agreement, including a voluntary exit scheme that is unprecedented in its nature and scale, and, as yet, we have not seen the detail of that. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, in facing the difficult challenges ahead, there will be the inevitable resistance to change. As well as quoting Nelson Mandela when launching the draft Budget in November, the Minister reminded us of the words of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy in his 1962 State of the Union address, when he reflected on difficult choices.”