Nelson McCausland
North Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Such an attack on a garage forecourt, where people are milling around — young people, elderly folk, people out and about their business, as well as the intended target — means that anyone could have been cut down and killed on the spot last night. It is reminiscent of the 1970s and 1980s in Belfast.”
“The event that took place on the Crumlin Road in north Belfast last night was an appalling attempt to murder a police officer or police officers. It is a chilling and terrible reminder of those dark days — some of the darkest days — when such attacks were a regular occurrence in Belfast.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer and also for his answer to the earlier question regarding uncertainties with youth funding issues. I thank him for his clarification. What is his assessment of the value and benefits that flow from the work of those whom we are speaking about?”
“Fortunately, on the previous occasion of an attack on the Crumlin Road not so long ago, the intended victims were not killed. It is a stark reminder of the responsibility of all of us to make sure that those who are responsible for such attacks are brought before the courts.”
“On a point of order, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. May I ask that the Speaker review Question Time today in Hansard? Some Members were permitted to preface and contextualise their question with a couple of sentences without interruption, some Members managed it with interruption and some of us were interrupted in the first sentence.”
“Some might argue that the Gaels were Planters as well. Would the Minister undertake to work with the relevant folk in the Department for Communities and the Minister there, who have responsibility for the Ulster-Scots Agency, to see if additional resources could be afforded to enable it to work up additional work in that context because o…”
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Every one of 417 lines we hold for Nelson McCausland, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 8 of 9.
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill is essential in order to proceed with the transfer of functions and the conferral of powers to councils in April 2015, as agreed by the Executive in April 2013. The Bill was put forward for the Executive back in spring. I have listed the occasions on which I attempted to table it and have also sought clearance by urgent procedure. I also recently wrote to all Ministers asking for comment on it. I got a reply from one Minister — the Culture, Arts and Leisure Minister — who raised a range of issues now at a very late stage. I have responded to that. I wrote out on 2 September; we got a reply on 8 September. The reply to all the points has now gone back, and I hope that we will be able to move forward. Councils are expecting that, on 1 April, the functions will transfer.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He was at the meeting and is aware that work is ongoing between DSD officials and the officials in the new council area to make sure that whatever happens moving forward is the best possible outcome. <BR /> <BR />The Member also asks about the Regeneration and Housing Bill. That is why I said "if" earlier. I have sought Executive approval to introduce the Regeneration and Housing Bill in the Assembly on a number of occasions. I made three attempts to table it at Executive meetings on 5 June and 9 June and on 8 July. I also sought clearance by urgent procedure on 9 July and 29 August. However, I have so far been unable to make progress with that important legislation because of the failure of some members of the Executive to agree to the Bill proceeding.”
“As of 1 April, if the Regeneration and Housing Bill goes through — I say "if" because it has not gone through yet — it will indeed be a matter for councils.”
“The answer was brief because it was either going to be succinct in summary of the situation or we would get into a situation where I listed all the projects across all the constituencies. We would have been well past the two minutes set aside by the Speaker to deal with questions and answers. <BR /> <BR />The budget for neighbourhood renewal and urban regeneration is being transferred to local councils, and my departmental officials are engaging thoroughly with councils to make sure that that process is as smooth and seamless as possible. How councils then take forward those projects, how they decide to prioritise them, to stage them and to finance them are matters for councils themselves.”
“My Department is developing a number of projects in conjunction with other Departments in neighbourhood renewal areas. These range from capital street enhancement schemes to revenue projects that address some of the barriers that contribute to low educational attainment and poor health. These projects are being developed in conjunction with the Department for Regional Development, OFMDFM, the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure and the Department of Education. Obviously, there is a long list of projects that it is not really possible to deal with in an oral answer. We work with all of those other Departments on a range of measures.”
“The Member himself will be aware of the elements in that package. The real issue needs to be in the Executive, where the representatives of other parties agree that this comes forward as a Northern Ireland Executive package rather than simply being put onto the Floor and thrown out there. We do not want to get into a situation that would be worse than the current situation.”
“The worst thing of all, in many ways, would be to bring legislation into the Assembly and then for that to fall. We would be in a much more difficult situation then because you would almost be back to the drawing board and back to stage one. I can see the Member's colleague beside him nodding in agreement. <BR /> <BR />The second thing is that we have two parties that have their face set very firmly against it. Maybe the Member's head just nods. The fact is that there are two parties that are dead set against any movement. They seem to be like rabbits caught in the headlights and are not quite sure what to do. I do not want us to get into the situation where we would be worse off than we are now. We have a good package, and people are well aware of what is in it. It has been talked about enough. Everyone knows what is in it.”
“However, it is clear that the work was done. In fact, we had to do it because, if we were going to develop mitigations and flexibilities, we needed to know what the impact was in order to develop and negotiate them. That work has been done, and it informed fully all the conversations that we had with DWP, Iain Duncan Smith, David Freud and others and the work that was then done in developing local flexibilities and mitigations here in Northern Ireland.”
“The opportunity to answer Mrs Kelly is always a privilege and a pleasure. The first thing is to point out that it was her party, when it was in DSD, that started the process of implementing GB welfare reform in Northern Ireland. It is not just that she does not mention that; she seems to have forgotten about it. I do not know what the reason is, but she obviously has forgotten about it. It is one of a number of things that were quietly forgotten about by Mrs Kelly. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, in terms of doing things on a constituency basis, in regard to welfare reform, we have generally looked at the impact on different categories of people, whether it is a particular age group or a particular section 75 category or whatever. All of those things have been looked at; it has not really been done on a individual constituency basis.”
“We are doing all we can in terms of getting the flexibilities that I have negotiated with Westminster and putting together a package of other measures to mitigate the worst effects of welfare reform and protect the most vulnerable.”
“The personal independence payment will affect only working-age claimants — those aged 16 to 64. PIP will not affect the most vulnerable age groups — children under 16 or adults over 64. Individuals in those age groups will continue to receive their benefit as long as they satisfy the criteria. It is only when a child reaches their sixteenth birthday that they will be invited to make a claim for personal independence payment. <BR /> <BR />Additional safeguards have been built into the PIP customer journey to ensure that vulnerable people in Northern Ireland receive all the help and support they need as they encounter the new benefit. I will continue to work with colleagues to ensure that Northern Ireland is not adversely impacted by the changes.”
“We need a system that encourages people into work, supports them in that regard and is there as a safety net for the most vulnerable. That is my task. I do not want to see the vulnerable being punished because of the financial incapability of others.”
“The Member says that I did not answer the question she asked. I actually answered her question and the question that she and her party does not want to ask or face up to. The fact is that, if Sinn Féin cuts are imposed — when they are imposed, given the way that we are going — they will be detrimental to the most vulnerable. Those cuts will be the result of the inaction of Sinn Féin and the SDLP. <BR /> <BR />There is also an increasing body of evidence, such as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation report on minimum income standard for the UK in 2014 and the Institute for Fiscal Studies report 'Green Budget 2014', that supports the positive aspects of welfare reform and the introduction of universal credit, which will improve the financial reward for hard-working families and provide greater incentives for people to work.”
“As part of that, I have developed a package of measures, including a series of flexibilities and transitional protections designed to meet the needs of the people in Northern Ireland. That package of measures helps to simplify the system, and, more importantly, it ensures that the vulnerable are protected.”
“<BR /> <BR />The reality is that the welfare system needs to change to ensure that it is fair, affordable and sustainable. In fact, plans to reform the welfare system have been ongoing since 2009, when a Welfare Bill was considered. Since taking office, I have ensured that this Welfare Reform Bill has been progressed against my four principles which are central to the policy intent behind this legislation, namely: protect the vulnerable, get people into work or back to work, develop a system that is fair, and encourage personal and social responsibility.”
“It is estimated that, even after welfare reform, spending on social security benefits will be higher than it was in 2010-11, rising from around £5 billion in 2010-11 to over £6 billion by 2018-19. Protecting the vulnerable is a key priority and, although I have publicly expressed support for the reform of the welfare system, I have concerns with certain aspects of the welfare reform proposals as implemented in GB. I have listened to the debate in Great Britain about the impact on the most vulnerable. That is why I met Northern Ireland’s four Church leaders to discuss welfare reform in Northern Ireland and why we have ongoing engagement with a range of stakeholders. I will continue to ensure that protecting the vulnerable is at the core of what I do.”
“Perhaps the Member will consider the adverse effect of not introducing welfare reform in Northern Ireland, which is an area that I have already strayed into. It is important that we consider that in relation to vulnerable people by considering my previous answer on the budget cuts that my Department will have to make, should we not have movement with the Welfare Reform Bill. DSD provides a range of services to vulnerable groups across Northern Ireland, and some of the most vulnerable in our society — people in areas of deprivation and suffering from individual and family vulnerabilities — will bear the brunt of this. <BR /> <BR />Welfare reform will control the level or rate of the increase in social security spending.”
“Or, £1·6 billion to create a new, bespoke system for Northern Ireland is not a problem for some people. The result is, in fact, that some Members are quite clearly financially illiterate.”
“As the Member well knows — as does his party colleague on the Executive, because he has been party to the discussions there and has been part of the welfare subcommittee in the Executive — we are facing into a further cut of £15·5 million. We already know what the total cost of not proceeding with welfare reform is going to be. It is not just the smaller figure that we are talking about at the moment, because we are getting to the point where meeting the penalties as a result of welfare reform will cost £200 million a year, on top of all the other costs. <BR /> <BR />Of course, there are people who think that you should just invent your own IT system. Sure, £1 billion to pay for something there — to buy over a legacy system and operate that — will not be a problem for some people.”
“In housing and urban renewal, for example, we invested £1·9 million in new social housing; £1·7 million in planned maintenance services; £1·3 million in urban generation; £54,000 in voluntary and community; and £42,000 in tackling disadvantage. So, over that period, you can see that we spent in the region of £6 million. However, we are now faced with a very substantial cut, right across the Department, of £13·5 million and, adding on from that, £29 million.”
“The Member raises an issue that is very much on my mind and, I am sure, on the minds of a number of other Ministers. The fact is that a budget cut of 2·1% was imposed as a result of the June monitoring round, which represented a cut of £13·5 million for the Department. <BR /> <BR />Work is well advanced on the upcoming October monitoring round. Current indications are that that will produce a further 2·3% cut, therefore resulting in a total cut, over June and October, of £29 million for the year. That is bound to have an impact in South Antrim and, indeed, other constituencies. It will also have an impact in a whole range of areas. <BR /> <BR />I will mention here areas in South Antrim in which we have invested in the past year, 2013-14.”
“The Department is currently considering a number of options to manage the effect of the budget cuts. It is too early at this juncture to determine to what extent the present budget cuts will affect the south Antrim area in particular.”
“That comes down to the question of what constitutes a commercial business and what constitutes competition. I am sure that the Member would agree that when Fermanagh District Council unanimously agreed, as a council, that having a website of this type was the right approach, the decision was taken to support them. That is the specific example that the Member raised previously. <BR /> <BR />As to whether there is competition, there will be various opinions. I am not aware of any specific policy, but then I am not sure and do not accept that there is competition in this case. I understand that the Member may not want to go fully into all the details of that particular case, but I think that there is a link between the two websites.”
“Key elements of the project included adding vitality and vibrancy to the town, strengthening the strong independent retail offering, promoting Enniskillen’s unique identity as an inland town, and maximising the town’s tourism potential in order to make the most of its physical assets and geographical location. <BR /> <BR />The development of the brand "Enniskillen — A Place Apart" required an online presence. That website showcases Enniskillen town centre and gives a flavour, through images, of what the town has to offer in terms of attractions, services, events, arts, culture, history and heritage. It is appropriate to include images of services such as shopping as they are a key part of what visitors to Enniskillen will want and need. It was not designed to compete with any existing business or shopping directories.”
“You will be aware that, over recent years, my Department has invested significant amounts in order to support the regeneration of Enniskillen town centre and support local businesses. That funding has not been used to establish any commercial business. Approval for a branding, marketing and advertising campaign for Enniskillen town centre was endorsed unanimously by Fermanagh district councillors. <BR /> <BR />The development of the Enjoy Enniskillen website was one element of a package of actions aimed at highlighting Enniskillen’s role as a tourist destination and market town.”
“— and questions for the school. Those questions deserve an answer. I encourage the Assembly to back the motion and pursue the matter. If we are to move Northern Ireland forward, this is not the way to do it.”
“I thank the Member for his question, which is indeed the third point that I am going to make. The rebel night takes place on the Holy Cross boys' school pitch. Therefore, there is this question for the school governors: is this in keeping with the ethos of your school premises? Roman Catholic schools — maintained schools — have a Catholic ethos. Is this sort of thing in keeping with that ethos? If it is not, it should not happen on pitches that are the property of the school. The question for them is this: will you continue to make your school property available for such rebel nights? There are questions for the organisers and the politicians, questions for the funders —”
“<BR /> <BR />There are also questions for the funders, such as DCAL and the Community Relations Council, and the sponsors. Those questions need to be pursued with those individuals over the next number of months until we get to the bottom of exactly what was applied for, what conditions were attached to the grants and sponsorship, whether those people think that there have been any breaches of those conditions and whether there should be any future funding for this type of event. That is a question for DCAL, the Community Relations Council and the sponsors, including Ladbrokes.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are three issues. First, there is an issue and a question for the fleadh committee and a question, too, for nationalist and republican politicians from the SDLP and Sinn Féin. This is the sort of thing that one might expect from Sinn Féin, but the SDLP has backed the fleadh. I assume that some Members from the SDLP have signed the petition of concern; there certainly are not enough Members from Sinn Féin to do that on their own, so somebody other than Sinn Féin has signed the petition of concern. Is it not time for the fleadh to move on? Is it not time for Northern Ireland to move on? If Northern Ireland is moving on, is it right that this sort of event should be supported with public money? That is the question for the fleadh committee and nationalist politicians: is it not time to move on?”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to pick up on a comment made in response to that evening by the Culture Minister, Ms Ní Chuilín. There was a dissident republican shooting a short distance away on the night. She said that it was terrible that there had been a dissident republican shooting, because people were at the concert enjoying their culture. I suggest that there is a connection between the two. It is the culture of such songs and the ethos of that sort of event that help to encourage people into the ranks of the dissidents. Such songs validate the use of the gun and the use of murder. Therefore, how can you, on the one hand, say, "That's great. That's the culture to be celebrated" and, on the other hand, condemn people a short distance away for doing almost the very thing that the groups there are singing about?”
“That is what it is about. The issue is not the comments of one individual, which lasted for a matter of minutes, but the entire programme on that night. It is the climax, the culmination, the final event of the night. In fact, for many people, it is the most important part of the fleadh. It is certainly integral to the fleadh. It is advertised in the programme. It is organised by the organising committee that books the acts. The committee knows what it is booking and what it is getting. They have heard these people before. Yet, there it is, in receipt of public money. It is not something extraneous. It is not something peripheral. It is central; it is core; it is essential to the fleadh. Therein lies the problem when it comes to giving public money to that type of event.”
“Of course, they would be well known to members of Sinn Féin because they advertise themselves as having appeared at the party's ard-fheis to perform those sorts of songs. They also say that they appear regularly at Sinn Féin events. It is clear that audience participation is a key element in this. One can pick up in the media, on YouTube and so on people shouting things like "Ooh aah, up the Ra" and other similar sentiments. So, we are clear about the type of event that we are talking about. <BR /> <BR />If that is the case, is it the sort of event that should be funded by DCAL? Should it be funded by the Community Relations Council? Is this what public money should be spent on? I suggest that Irish rebel music of the type that was performed that night promotes sectarianism, endorses violence and romanticises the IRA.”
“I think we get a picture of the sort of music, lyrics and songs. <BR /> <BR />If you are not familiar with the group, you can also sample on YouTube one of the other songs in its repertoire, 'The Sniper's Promise', which is about an IRA man picking up his Armalite rifle and shooting a British soldier. The reason why I mention that is that we are not talking here about songs about 1916 or songs that go back to the 17th century, the 18th century or 100 years ago; we are talking about songs that relate to the recent Troubles and to the terrorist campaign inflicted on this land by the IRA. One of the other bands, Fianna, were the authors or co-writers of a song called 'New Lodge Pride' about the Provisional IRA in the New Lodge area.”
“Clearly, it is a group that specialises in high-quality literature and lyrics. It also includes such memorable lines as:”
“His statement was racist and sectarian, and so was the action of the crowd. Their reaction was to cheer those comments and to roar out their approval of what he had said. After that, the crowd sang a song that begins with the line:”
“Even if you do not go to it, you can hear it quite easily. If you live in large parts of the Woodvale and Shankill area, in Ballysillan or in upper Ardoyne at Glenbryn, you can sit in your house and hear the event because of the level of amplification. As I said, this year, it reached a wider audience because it is now on YouTube. <BR /> <BR />Let us start by looking at the comments that were made by that individual. The group are the Druids, from Kildare. They claim to be Ireland's number-one live rebel band: I will not argue with that. Their lead singer, Mick O'Brien, told the Ardoyne crowd — I will abbreviate some of his terminology, although he did not abbreviate; he used the full form of it — that it is about time that the British Army and their Orange comrades all effed away back to England.”
“For those who are not regular attenders there, the final night of the Ardoyne Fleadh is very much the culmination and climax of the event at the end of the week. It is usually described by the organisers as "the Irish rebel night" or, as one committee member was quoted describing it in a newspaper, "chucky night", which is obviously a reference to the pro-IRA phrase "tiocfaidh ár lá". So it is interesting that the nature of the night is indisputable: it is about support for Irish republicanism, particularly militant, violent republicanism. <BR /> <BR />It is an extremely popular event. We can see that by the size of the crowd that turns up each year to the grounds of the Holy Cross Primary School. Its pitches are used for the event. It is a popular event that draws people from a wide area.”
“The Ardoyne Fleadh is an event that has been running for a number of years, and, over that period, it has received very substantial public funding. Indeed, if one goes back to the era of direct rule, one sees that it was one of a small number of festivals that received very substantial public funding. There were issues about the inequality of the funding mechanism at that time that some of us raised. <BR /> <BR />This year, in particular, the fleadh has come very much to the fore and has received extensive headline coverage in our newspapers, particularly because of some comments that were made on the final night of the event by one of the participants. Those comments were then posted on YouTube.”
“It was not something that I conjured up out of thin air or that someone told me I should do: the Housing Executive recognised that the way in which it was being done needed to be looked at. Of course, that sort of thing simply gets thrown out of the way and ignored. <BR /> <BR />I believe that the report falls far short of the standard that you would expect in any other part of the United Kingdom or British Isles. It is a report from a Committee that used a flawed process. It has produced a flawed product with a flawed outcome, and I think that it is the sort of document that is best dispensed in a waste bin.”
“So much time has been eaten up with this type of inquiry, and so much energy has been spent on trying to come to a predetermined conclusion, that these sorts of issues have not been on its agenda. I have not been getting letters from the Committee on what we are doing about tower blocks. I have not been getting letters about all these issues. The Committee would do a much better job if it looked at such problems. <BR /> <BR />I will go back to some of the other points made by the Chairman. One key issue is that, when the meeting took place, it emerged that the Housing Executive had already started a review of the specification for fitting double glazing. Even before that meeting, it had already started the review process.”
“My intention was not only to deliver double glazing with £15 million of savings but to deliver double glazing within the term of this Assembly, not through a 10-year programme as was previously considered. <BR /> <BR />Thousands of Housing Executive properties with no cavity wall insulation — no-fines properties — are finally being addressed, and there is delivery on external cyclical maintenance (ECM) schemes, which, year after year, had been slowed down. There is better management and monitoring of contracts. We are now seeing a Housing Executive that is far superior to what was there under the SDLP and under the direct rule regime. <BR /> <BR />The Committee, on the other hand, has failed to address such issues.”
“It could be a senior moment, indeed. <BR /> <BR />Let us think about it: in Northern Ireland at the moment, we have 32 tower blocks under the control of the Housing Executive. There has never been a strategy for the maintenance of those tower blocks. The situation now is that finally, under the DUP, there is delivery on that. Within a matter of weeks, we will have a strategy for the first time. People who live in those conditions, with mould growing on the walls, who complained about the conditions when the SDLP Minister was in place, saw that nothing was done about it. It is only now, under the DUP, that there is delivery. There was no concern for tenants.”
“<BR /> <BR />The fact is that we could look at the evidence of what happened in regard to double glazing and in regard to other matters. Let us just have a quick look at that. I have a record for delivery in the Department for Social Development that is far better than what there was in terms of delivery by predecessors. I know that it is difficult for Mrs Kelly, as she cannot even remember who was in the office. She thinks that —”
“I thank the Member for his point, which is very significant. One of the fundamental issues here is this: you have a flawed process. I am waiting to see what the answer will be in response to the letter from our Departmental Solicitor's Office, because we have been waiting a couple of months already for an answer, and we have not got one. The fact is that it was a flawed process, with a predetermined outcome, that produced a flawed product. <BR /> <BR />I have talked about the prejudice and the partisanship of certain members, and I can easily go through other newspaper reports for other members. However, as Mr Robinson, the First Minister, said, quite rightly, not only is it what they said in the press, it is what they said in the very programme. I think that all of that raises serious questions about the credibility of it.”
“Oh well. Her prejudice, her partisanship and her partiality have all been amply demonstrated, and if she, who talked about impartiality, can say something like that and stay on the Committee, her presence on the Committee does damage to credibility. She is not the only one. I just picked out the one out of the 'Irish News' for Mrs Kelly. We could go through other newspaper reports and pick out what other members of the Committee said at the particular time. The partisanship and the prejudice there amongst those parties was amply demonstrated when they said it — it is not something that I produced. The words out of their own mouths condemn them. When Mrs Kelly says that the Committee was impartial, that is an absolute joke. The fact is that the whole report was based on smear —”
“She said that there were two more inquiries coming, so it will be death by a thousand cuts. <BR /> <BR />She has not even seen one bit of evidence — not one scrap, not one page — and already she has not just come to a conclusion in the way that a jury would come to a conclusion; she has actually gone the whole way and has signed us all up for a death warrant. It is absolutely appalling. In fact, if anybody should be thinking of stepping down, she should be thinking of stepping down from the Committee, because her prejudice, her partisanship —”
“You have five parties that are political opponents, and they simply take the opportunity, as they are able to do with the sort of system that we have, to produce a report and have a political attack. <BR /> <BR />I was interested in what Mrs Kelly said. She said that the Committee was impartial, and she said that she was impartial. I refer to the 'Irish News' of 23 July 2014 — a paper that I am sure she reads. Mrs Kelly may have forgotten what she said to that newspaper reporter: last night, the SDLP's Dolores Kelly, a member of the Committee, said that she believed that I should consider my position. She said that there were two more inquiries coming up. She has not just settled for this one: she is away on to stage 2 and stage 3 — right down the road to the very end.”
“I am actually amazed that some people, who were not even on the Committee, obviously think that they have read through hundreds and hundreds of pages of documentation that were given before coming to a conclusion that the Committee was right. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, he went on to talk about the BBC. He acknowledged, quite rightly — he is absolutely right — that it is interesting that the BBC was happy to put out the programme but would not appear before the Committee. If the BBC were man enough, it would come to the Committee. In fact, it went away and refused to appear. Conclusions should be based on evidence. The fact is that the evidence was not produced. <BR /> <BR />This is fact. This is a Committee where five out of six parties are political opponents. That is cutting to the chase of the matter.”
“I know that it is difficult for Mr Allister to contain himself, but he might try. <BR /> <BR />He talked about criticism of the provision of information. The problem for my officials and my Department was simply that, when the information was being sought, the questions were being framed in such a vague way that it was very difficult for officials to know what exactly was being sought. In many ways, that is why you ended up with a situation where the Committee was flooded with information.”
“No. <BR /> <BR />He said that the allegations were extremely serious —”