Jonathan Craig
Lagan Valley · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Unfortunately, I speak as one who has a little understanding of what that family is going through. The same knock came to my family's door, and it is horrendous. I feel for that family, and my thoughts and prayers are with the family circle at this time. What that family is going through is almost unbearable and unthinkable.”
“I welcome what the Minster has said so far about the scheme at the Temple crossroads, which is an extremely dangerous crossroads. My father witnessed a fatal accident at that junction. Will the Minister outline the approximate cost of the scheme? More importantly, what additional features will it have?”
“Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, I am almost tempted to call you Father Newton because, for the second time this month, I find myself confessing to not being in my seat. I apologise to you and the House.”
“I could show you glaring examples in my own constituency of where this should have been done but was not done, is not being done and is not going to be done until somebody somewhere points out that there is a need to do it.”
“I want to outline some of the rationale and reasons behind why we believe that that is fundamentally important to the Bill. <BR /> <BR />At this point, the Bill is all well and good.”
“Some obvious circumstances are staring schools in the face, and I have to say that there is huge resistance from some sectors to facing up to the challenges that they face. There are even challenges within sectors for shared facilities.”
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“I welcome the fact that the Minister is bringing forward legislation on bullying policies in schools. Does he agree, though, that a lot of cyberbullying in particular actually occurs outside of the school and, as he mentioned, even on an international basis? What has his Department done in conjunction or in liaison with the PSNI on that as it has now become a priority matter for the PSNI and has been put into the new policing plan?”
“With that, I wish to hand the petition over.”
“With this petition, my colleague Mr Edwin Poots and I wish to reinforce the public support that there is in not only Dromore but the wider Lagan valley region for a complete new build to meet the needs of not only one of the largest schools in our constituency but one of the most successful academically.”
“The last extension that was to be made to the prefabs on the site was turned down owing to planning considerations. <BR /> <BR />The school should be one of the top priorities in the area, but, as yet, there has been no real movement on any new build. The site just does not have the capacity to hold the school. There are huge difficulties around special educational needs and how those are delivered. Disability access is practically non-existent, which causes huge problems for the management of the school. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to the Minister of Education, Mr O'Dowd, for last year going ahead with the purchase of a site for a new school building.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I take great pleasure in presenting the petition, which has over 2,500 signatures. <BR /> <BR />Dromore High School has a very special place in my heart. It is not only the school that I went to but the school that my children are now going to. Thirty-five years ago when I was attending the school, it was heavily oversubscribed. A school built for 500 children, at that time it had 600 pupils. It was on the priority list for new builds in what was then the Southern Education and Library Board. <BR /> <BR />Since then, the school's population has grown to 940 pupils. One can only imagine how dense and complicated the running of that school now is. It has got so complicated that prefabs are becoming a real problem for planners.”
“The simple truth is that the evidence of the outcomes of their collusion was buried in the bogs of Ireland, North and South. We all saw the consequences of that for the families involved — an absolute disgrace. <BR /> <BR />Cherry-picking the agreement will not work. It is the whole agreement or no agreement. Get that into your heads.”
“Oddly enough, there are republicans who feel very strongly that collusion between the Provisional IRA and state forces led to the death of their loved one. I do not hear Sinn Féin jumping up and down about those allegations and demanding inquiries and investigations. <BR /> <BR />The difference is that, if we look at what the RUC, the army and others did down the years, we will find that the truth is out there. It is buried in the 6·3 million documents held by the security forces in Northern Ireland. It can be found and looked at, and anyone who was involved in something that they should not have been can be brought to justice, but let us look at collusion on the paramilitary side. Where do we find the evidence for that? It is certainly not in documents kept securely in Northern Ireland or any other part of Ireland.”
“The simple truth is that, during her years as Police Ombudsman, they did not find that evidence. Other ombudsmen since have not found that evidence either. However, as my colleague, quite rightly, pointed out, that does not mean that there was no collusion. There were bad apples out there. If they are out there, they deserve to be investigated and, with whatever evidence can be found, brought to book. <BR /> <BR />I have spoken to families from all sides of Northern Ireland who feel that collusion in some shape or form played a part in the death or murder of their family member. The House will be surprised to learn that it does not come from just republican households. There are loyalists out there who feel that collusion played a part in their loved one's death.”
“So, collusion did take place. Was it systematic, as Mr Kelly alleges? He also makes the allegation that it was not only systematic but that the evidence is out there. That raises loads of questions in my mind. <BR /> <BR />First, when the former Police Ombudsman, Dame Nuala O'Loan, made allegations that hundreds of people in the former RUC and other organisations were in collusion with paramilitaries, I have to ask the question: what on earth was Dame Nuala O'Loan doing as Police Ombudsman? How many of those people were brought to book when she was in position as Police Ombudsman in Northern Ireland? It was her duty to investigate them. <BR /> <BR />It is easy to make allegations; it is very difficult to investigate, find evidence and prosecute.”
“I rise to support the amendment that we have proposed. I listened with interest to what the proposer of the motion actually had to say: it was all about collusion. More importantly, it was all about their version of collusion and the fallacy that the only people involved in collusion were state forces. I have bad news for that individual: it was not just "state forces", as she calls them. Every paramilitary grouping that was out there was buried up to its neck in collusion. There was collusion with state forces and the police. Worse still, that Member will also have to face up to the reality that the IRA had a lot of collusion as well. It was up to its neck in it with the Garda Síochána in the Republic of Ireland, as was clearly pointed out by the Smithwick inquiry.”
“Does the Minister also believe that we should look to devolve further powers? I think in particular of air passenger duty for short-haul flights.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers. Can the Minister outline the exact purpose of this fund? I am assuming it is not to substitute existing schemes.”
“I thank the Minister for his commitment. There is something wrong with what the PEAG is doing. If it were a short-term issue over a year or two, I could understand, but, for the past five years, we have had difficulties. People have been told that they have places up to 16 miles away from their locality. Minister, when you speak to the PEAGs, will you be forceful with them on the issue? We need medium- to long-term planning in Lagan Valley.”
“Thank you, Minister. Will you have further talks with the new Government in Westminster over the issue and how we get around the impasse that we have?”
“I also congratulate the Minister on her promotion. Hopefully, she will be equally beneficial to some of my projects.”
“There is a fear factor around the border, because organised criminal gangs are carrying this out. I also believe that those who own properties around the border are afraid to pass information on to the police. That cycle of fear needs to be broken. Others with more influence in those border areas need to make it very clear to people on the ground that they should pass information about where this is going on to local police through whatever means necessary and on to HMRC. If they do not, that cycle will continue. <BR /> <BR />There is also the thought and fear in my mind that some of those who rent these properties are profiteering. That is for the police and HMRC to investigate. I find the low level of arrests on this issue very disappointing.”
“Others in the House sat on their hands on the NCA. I welcome that they have now got on board, because we need to get to grips with the criminals who are profiteering from this fuel laundering, the illegal dumping and all the other illegal matters occurring around our border in Northern Ireland. Those people need to be closed down, and the way that that will be done effectively is by grabbing their assets. Once you clean up and remove the profits that those criminals are making, you will have killed off the organisation behind them. That is what we need to have in operation today, and, thankfully, it is now in operation. I welcome that. <BR /> <BR />The other thought that occurred to me is that we are continually seeing these plants being set up. I think that there are two factors in that.”
“We are looking at something that is done on an industrial scale. If it is done on that scale, that leads to a lot of questions. There are certainly a lot of questions in my mind. How come the Government cannot get a grip of this issue? Is there a lack of focus on it? <BR /> <BR />In fairness to the Minister of Justice, it is not only his Department that has responsibility for this; HMRC has a huge responsibility for it. We heard how it has upped the ante on this in the past couple of years and has successfully closed down more plants. However, there needs to be greater focus on what is going on. This is organised crime at its worst. Where is the money going? Who is lining their pockets out of this? What are they doing with it? They are building up criminal empires. <BR /> <BR />That leads on to another issue.”
“The real crime today is that we find that it is fuelling organised crime, and there are definitely organised criminals who are taking advantage of the situation in those border areas. It is very lucrative for them. We have seen the figures. Millions of pounds are being lost in revenue every single year. <BR /> <BR />The level of detail they go into in those fuel laundering plants is absolutely frightening. Not only are they set up as mini factories producing the illegal fuel, but escape routes are planned, there are tunnels and there are even lookouts in the surrounding area to give forewarning of anybody coming to raid the facilities.”
“Like others in the Chamber, I feel a sense of déjà vu that we are talking about fuel laundering yet again. It reminds me that it is an issue that has been around for a long time. In fact, the fuel laundering that is going on around the border areas very much reminds me of what used to happen in the 17th and 18th centuries in the south of England around the smuggling of brandy and other illicit liquor. It is endemic in the culture of those areas. We have to be honest with ourselves: it has been rooted in the Troubles, where the IRA and other illegal organisations used it as something to fund and fuel — pardon the pun — their organisations throughout the Troubles, and that has continued.”
“Thank you, Minister. I listened with interest to what you said about the Middletown Centre and how you hope to expand its range of services. What impact will your reduction by £100,000 to its budget this year have on that expansion programme, and will there be a similar reduction from the Republic of Ireland?”
“When the transferors were in front of the Committee, I asked them the question about the Catholic certificate. They made it very, very clear that there were ongoing negotiations between the four main Churches around the issue so that a solution agreed by all the Churches could be found. In some respects, that is maybe the best way forward. However, as far as this goes here today, I have to support the motion, because no matter what I think, I see an element of discrimination in the Catholic certificate which I, as an evangelical Protestant, cannot support.”
“It could have a negative impact, but the presentation made by both Brookeborough primary schools is reassuring for everyone in the House because those schools are already working together on a shared future. I asked this question: "Are you having shared classes in those schools at present?" The answer was a very clear yes. So, I asked the obvious question when I said, "I take it those shared classes can only be taken by teachers who have the Catholic certificate". The blunt, fundamental answer from both principals was no. So, those two schools have, in their own way, come to a solution that allows those without the Catholic certificate to teach subjects to shared classes in that school environment. If that is the way forward for shared education, so be it. I for one will back that situation.”
“The Protestant Churches' viewpoint is not rammed down people's throats by every single teacher in that sector. Only those who wish to teach religion do so. Even when they teach religion, they follow the Northern Ireland curriculum, not the viewpoint of one single Church. <BR /> <BR />Does this discriminate against those who disagree with it or who disagree with the Roman Catholic faith? I can come to only one conclusion: in some respects, it does discriminate because, even if I can get a certificate that allows me to teach the Roman Catholic faith, I have no wish or desire to do so. Am I being discriminated against? I have come to my own conclusion, and the answer, in my mind, is yes. <BR /> <BR />Will this have a negative impact on our shared education future, to which everyone on the Committee, basically, agreed to?”
“In some respects, Father Tim Bartlett let the cat out of the bag when he said that it is very much about not only teaching the sacraments of the Church but turning each maintained teacher into a religious education teacher. <BR /> <BR />If you go into a maintained school, not only are you a teacher of maths, English, physics or whatever but you are a religious instructor. The difference is that you are a religious instructor of one religious viewpoint. From an equality point of view, is that acceptable? Everyone in the House has to make up their own mind on that. My great difficulty is the fact that the state pays for this. I would have thought that that is the role of the Church. <BR /> <BR />I see a completely different set-up in the controlled sector.”
“The only thing that I can confirm is that I have no recollection of any letters, of clarification or otherwise, from the Minister. <BR /> <BR />This afternoon, we need to look at the Catholic certificate, the religious education certificate that we are debating, and what it is. It is at the root of what is being discussed. Is it discrimination or not? To be honest with you, from my personal background, I have absolutely no idea what it is. I come from a deeply evangelical Protestant background, and I have no idea what it is all about. However, I listened to and questioned the CCMS representatives with deep interest when they came to the Committee.”
“I thank the Minister for that response. Minister, taking note of a poll published in the 'Belfast Telegraph' today, is it not remarkable that 70% of those polled were in favour of Ashers, but, more astonishingly, 90% believe that equality issues should not be used to force people to say or do something that they oppose? Does he agree with me that there is an overriding issue of the right of religious freedom as well?”
“Is the Minister at all surprised to learn that that backlog now stands at the astonishing figure of almost £14 million and growing? Can the Minister confirm that there is also growing evidence that serious crime groups are basing themselves in Northern Ireland because of the lack of the National Crime Agency? The sooner we get it implemented the better with regard to that aspect of crime.”
“The very back seat, so they could not see what was on the interactive board. Common sense has a large role to play. While we may pass the legislation and try to improve the system, the training of those who have to fulfil this will be critical. With that, I will sit down.”
“We may well get all the building blocks in the right place, but the wall itself might collapse because of how the legislation is implemented. <BR /> <BR />Whatever the impact of these changes, there is a job of education to be done with regard to those who will have to carry this out, whether boards of governors, teachers or special needs assistants. All need to understand how this is meant to help the child. Like many Members, I have seen some appalling examples of how statements are carried out. One child in my locality fought for years to get a statement. They got one, and it was inevitable that they would because they have limited sight and are registered blind. Despite having a classroom assistant to aid their education and despite all the statement being put in place, where was the first place that child was put in the classroom?”
“There is a need for us to have sight of the subordinate legislation so that we can understand what its impact will be. Otherwise, the job of the Committee will be made incredibly difficult. I appeal to the Minister to give the Committee insight into that area if he can because that is where the in-depth scrutiny takes place, not in the Chamber. <BR /> <BR />All this legislation may well help us in how we treat those with special educational needs in the education system. It may well put all the structures into place, and we may well pat ourselves on the back and think that we have done something great. One thing that I have discovered in all legislation is that implementation is critical; how it is carried out in a school or classroom is where it counts.”
“If they are over the normal school age, that is quite right. It is absolutely right that they have a huge say in their own special educational needs treatment. Sadly, when you move into other aspects of educational needs, that does not necessarily follow through. I will watch that with great interest. <BR /> <BR />The thrust of the Bill is to speed up how we deal with special educational needs and get statements put on children. That is to be welcomed. The word of caution in all this in my own mind was mentioned by the Chair of the Committee: that this Bill needs a lot of transitional arrangements. It needs subordinate legislation underneath it all. <BR /> <BR />The role and duty of the Committee is to scrutinise the impact that a Bill is physically going to have on the ground.”
“Will that exclude some outside information from the likes of health or whatever that does not come in on time or will allowances be made for that in the system? I hope that the Minister will think about that to see how it will work out. <BR /> <BR />I welcome clause 8, which makes provision for the establishment of an independent mediation service. That is long overdue. A lot of mediation was probably done by many Members and by many outside bodies. It is good to see that formalised in the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Clause 9 gives to those over compulsory school age the right to appeal and to make statutory assessments. That is a fascinating one because there are two aspects to it. Children with special educational needs who go into mainstream education are clearly deemed to be competent to do so.”
“How do they get someone to aid them? What is that provision supposed to be? How does that work out from day to day in the classroom? More importantly, is it seeing an improvement in learning on the part of the individual in question? Because, at the end of the day, that is what the school is supposed to be about: educating our children, even those with special educational needs. That is a welcome step forward. <BR /> <BR />Clause 5 changes from 29 to 22 the number of days that we have to get supporting information. Like the Chair of the Committee, I understand why that is there: it is to reduce the time it takes to get a statement. I have come up against this in dealing with and supporting individuals with their cases. However, my only word of caution is that other outside information sometimes takes longer to get coordinated.”
“That is something which, we almost think, states the obvious but, time and again, has been overlooked in existing legislation, where the views of parents and educational specialists were paramount and the child, to a large extent, was left out of the discussion that was taking place about them. I welcome the fact that the child's views will now be taken on board. <BR /> <BR />Clause 3 extends the existing duties of boards of governors in relation to SEN. That is something that I warmly welcome. I welcome the fact that there will be a pupil profile built in there and that we will have the learning support coordinators built in, not only to our education system but for the board of governors. It is long overdue that we recognise that governors have a good insight into how those with special educational needs are dealt with in the schools.”
“No one here questions the need for this new Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill. I look at the figures and see a 67% rise in autism alone in the past few years, so I think that no one here argues against the idea that the provision for special educational needs in our education system needs to be looked at or overhauled. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Member who spoke previously into the digital age. It is good to see that he has got there, and I understand his wish to see all this legislation completely rewritten and embedded. However, that is something for the Department to look at. <BR /> <BR />There are quite a few things in the proposed Bill that have some merit. Clause 1 places a new duty on the Education Authority to have regard to the views of the child in relation to decisions being taken for them.”
“I was under the impression that, to improve results, we were trying to gear towards having optimally smaller classes.”
“I thank the Minister for reminding us of the Dromore High School situation. If we are fortunate — I say that in the context of the current financial programme — to have money to build a new high school, it strikes me that there is a development site that is well within the boundaries of the old Dromore High School site. Its use would inevitably lead to growth in the youth population. <BR /> <BR />I want to clarify something with the Minister. I am doing the sums only in my head, but I think that the first year intake will have class sizes of roughly 25, 26 or 27 — you simply divide it by four. Is the Minister advocating that that drop to three, meaning that we could be looking at class sizes of 35? Is that the future of primary-school education in Northern Ireland?”
“<BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, Minister, whatever is going on with the system that we use to predict numbers in geographical areas, I do not know whether it takes into account parental choice, but I see that being repeated in Dromore. I appeal to the Minister to go to the preschools, verify those figures and see whether there is a case, even at this late stage, for making economic sense by adding a few additional classrooms onto a build that is already under way. In the long term, that makes more economic sense.”
“<BR /> <BR />Trevor and I were invited to the opening of the new St Colman's school because both of us helped to get that new school developed. It was not the Minister who opened it; it was the deputy First Minister. I am sure that the Minister will be amused to hear that we were all regaled in Irish for quite a bit of the opening ceremony. I have to be honest: I did not understand it, but it was nice to hear it. That said, while I sat through that ceremony for that new school opening, it was not lost on me that the school had had to convert its library and another room to accommodate the children who were already at the school. That was an opportunity lost for us to get it right with regard to a new build.”
“It is predominantly a commuter town. There is a projected growth in housing of almost 300 or 400 new homes to be built in the Dromore area over the next few years. There is a change in the demographics, with people and their children moving into the Dromore area. That is where the figures are getting skewed, because what the board is telling me, what the Department is saying and, ultimately, what I am seeing in reality on the ground does not match up. I appeal to the Minister to look at that and to verify with the preschools that there is that growth in the population in the area. That is the best trigger of all with regard to not only the primary school in Dromore but primary schools around it. In my experience, they are all full. That is the difficulty that I have with the decision. If they are all full, where do those children go?”
“Its prediction was that the birth rate in the Dromore area would go down. When I checked with the preschools — they all have their intake figures for this year — they are well and truly oversubscribed this year, as they were last year and the previous year. That tends to indicate that, despite the actual figures that the Department holds around birth rates in the locality, we are seeing a general population movement into Dromore. <BR /> <BR />I hate to say this, but some of the figures that this is based on may not be entirely accurate. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence in Dromore to suggest that that may well be the case. There is still housing growth in the Dromore area. It is bucking the trend, in many ways, with regard to what we see in housing elsewhere. It is a good area to live in. It is close to the A1.”
“I support my colleague in looking for 28 classrooms in the new Dromore Central Primary School. Like my colleague Trevor Lunn, this is not the first time that I have come across this issue. St Colman's was a prime example of where that seemed to have occurred. This is part of the difficulty with predicting movements in population. I think that we all know that a reasonably straightforward way of predicting population trends is to follow the birth rate etc in different geographical areas. What we cannot predict, because we live in a democracy and people have the right to move to whatever area they choose, is changes in the demographics as the children grow up. This is part of the difficulty that we are seeing in Dromore. <BR /> <BR />I spoke to the chief executive of the Southern Board.”
“I am aware of five businesses in my locality that are now doing international business because of that connection. Do you feel that this will have a benefit for other businesses in other rural localities?”
“I thank the Minister very much for that answer. The project has been very successful. I can testify that I have had a 148 fourfold increase in my own internet speed, so thank you Minister. <BR /> <BR />What impact does the Minister believe that this will have on rural businesses in particular?”
“<BR /> <BR />The Bill clearly opens up a pathway forward, which, hopefully, will see the NCA taking action against the criminal gangs who have moved into Northern Ireland over the past number of years, as well as drug dealers and child molesters. I, for one, welcome not only the Bill but the ability of the Policing Board to scrutinise the NCA and its actions taken to attack those criminal activities. I commend the order to the House.”
“That same Chief Constable will now also have the responsibility of taking on whatever actions the NCA takes in Northern Ireland. Ultimately, it will be accountable to the Policing Board. I am sorely tempted to say that, as members of the Policing Board, we are going to have an awful lot on our plate in a short time, because we will now be accountable not only for the Chief Constable but for the NCA, and, ultimately, we are also going to be held to account by the Historical Investigations Unit (HIU). There will be no slackness on the Policing Board when it comes to the number of things that we will have to look after.”
“Even he could not figure out how, under any circumstances, two law enforcement agencies could act in the one jurisdiction and serious incidents not occur. He has argued from the very start that accountability for the NCA and its operations in Northern Ireland should go through the office of the Chief Constable. The order clearly indicates that that is the case and will be the case. Under those circumstances, it is very simple for me to support the measures proposed here today. <BR /> <BR />We all know that the PSNI is one of the most accountable police forces on the planet, quite frankly. It is accountable to HMIC, CJINI and the ombudsman's office, and, ultimately, the Chief Constable is accountable to the Policing Board.”
“In fact, the figures for drugs seized in the past three to four years show an alarming increase, with the figure almost doubling every year for the past three years. That is a clear indication that, given the lack of the National Crime Agency in Northern Ireland and the lack of an ability to seize the assets of crimes in this country, criminals, unlike their caricatures, who are portrayed as being stupid, are far from stupid. They are clearly exploiting the loophole here at present. That is something that, hopefully, the House will rectify today. <BR /> <BR />I also want to speak on the need for accountability for the National Crime Agency in Northern Ireland. That issue was raised not only by our colleagues on the other side of the House but by us, and, more importantly, it was also raised by the Chief Constable.”
“Under those circumstances, it is quite clear that any external resources that the Chief Constable could rely on, such as the National Crime Agency, are not only welcome but essential in order to ensure the safekeeping and security of everyone in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />It is clear from the figures presented to the Policing Board that criminal gang activity is rising in Northern Ireland.”