Jennifer McCann
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I have listened to the answers that you have given. What steps will you and your Department take to address the issue? As you mentioned, quite a percentage of schools are failing to meet the entitlement framework requirements. What actual steps will your Department take?”
“I begin by echoing what my two colleagues said: we will oppose the motion and support the DUP amendment. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the general direction of travel of the draft area plan. It puts the needs of children and young people at the heart of the planning process.”
“I want to say again — we have had this in debates — about the excellent results in my constituency of West Belfast in educational outcomes. It clearly shows that, when the right intervention is made in those areas, the children shine and their potential comes through.”
“It is not just about their academic achievements but about giving them the skills to deal with life's problems and difficulties. <BR /> <BR />The plan also seeks to close the attainment gap. That issue should be of great concern to all of us and the wider community.”
“I hope that in the final area planning it will be. I have seen it at first hand with programmes like New Start in west Belfast. We all want children to go to mainstream education, but, for whatever reason, mainstream education just does not suit some children's needs and does not do it for them.”
“It is not just about school buildings, but school buildings sometimes can be crucial, particularly in an area where, for instance, they do not have sporting facilities in a school. The Minister will be aware of the campaign in the Colin area of west Belfast for a new school.”
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“Although they would prefer accelerated passage not to be used, they, particularly Chris Hazzard and Gordon Lyons, accepted our reasons for using it. <BR /> <BR />Andrew Allen quoted part of what I said to the Committee's Deputy Chairperson last week, but, if he had gone on to finish the quotation, Members would know that I said why we were doing it. Both junior Minister Pengelly and I recognise the concerns of the Committee and those of other Members, but this is being done totally because of time constraints. <BR /> <BR />Jim Allister used the debate to make his usual speech about the dysfunctionality of the Executive, and John McCallister rehashed that a bit.”
“The First Minister and the deputy First Minister immediately obtained Executive agreement to seek Assembly approval for accelerated passage. We briefed a special meeting of the OFMDFM Committee on 30 November, securing the Committee's support. The Bill was introduced immediately after that meeting, and that demonstrates the priority that we attach to it. <BR /> <BR />I will pick up on some of the issues raised by Members. I thank Chris Lyttle, the Deputy Chairperson. He recognised the reasons for taking the Bill forward under the accelerated passage procedure and mentioned having a longer and better debate on the transfer of functions order, which will be with us in February of next year. Gordon Lyons, Chris Hazzard and Alex Attwood reiterated that point.”
“However, its introduction only became possible with the conclusion of the recent talks process and the publication of 'A Fresh Start: The Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan' on 17 November 2015. 'A Fresh Start' committed to the introduction of the Bill in the Assembly no later than the end of November 2015, and no time has been wasted in ensuring that that target was achieved.”
“<BR /> <BR />If the Bill were to miss that target, it would mean that restructuring could not take place in 2016, and the incoming Executive after the election would be formed on the basis of the existing 12-Department structure. Given the difficulties of restructuring an Executive and Departments between elections, it might be years before the opportunity occurred. At this late stage in the mandate and given the need for additional steps in the Assembly after the Bill has cleared Final Stage, there is no alternative to accelerated passage if restructuring is to be achieved in time for the 2016 election. <BR /> <BR />As I have already indicated, we would have preferred it if the Bill had been introduced in time for it to proceed under the usual processes for Assembly Bills.”
“The Bill will provide the framework for a future nine-Department structure. In due course, a transfer of functions order will make detailed provision for the movement of statutory responsibilities between Departments. It will be subject to Committee scrutiny in draft, and any Committee suggestions for improvement will be given due weight in finalising the order. That order will have to be approved in its final form by affirmative resolution of the Assembly; however, it can only be made in its final form when there is legal certainty regarding the number and names of the future Departments. That can only be achieved if the Departments Bill completes its passage by February 2016.”
“I am grateful for Members' contributions to the debate. The decisions taken by the Executive on restructuring will result in the most extensive reorganisation of the departmental system since 1999. A reduction to nine Departments will lead to a leaner, more streamlined and efficient Administration; it will provide for more joined-up government with greater cohesion within and between Departments; it will eliminate layers of unnecessary bureaucracy; and there will be greater scope to align functions, to move beyond the silo mentality, to find better ways of achieving our objectives and to improve services to the public. <BR /> <BR />The introduction last week of the Departments Bill marked an important first step in establishing the legislative basis for departmental restructuring.”
“<BR /> <BR />The commitment in 'A Fresh Start' to a better way of doing business together should reduce the likelihood of such circumstances reoccurring and future use of accelerated passage by OFMDFM. 'A Fresh Start' has provided a basis for addressing some of our most intractable issues. In relation to departmental restructuring, it has made it possible for us to move forward, but the opportunity needs to be taken quickly, and we ask Members to support the Departments Bill being progressed by accelerated passage. Go raibh maith agat.”
“That Order can be made only once there is legal certainty regarding the names of the future Departments, which can be achieved only if the Departments Bill has completed its passage by February 2016. <BR /> <BR />The consequences of accelerated passage not being granted are severe. If it were not granted, it would mean that restructuring could not take place in 2016 and that the incoming Executive after the election would be formed on the basis of the existing 12-Department structure. It would be extremely difficult to achieve restructuring between elections without major disruption to the Executive and the political institutions. Those special circumstances have occasioned this exceptional request to the Assembly for the use of accelerated passage.”
“It would, of course, have been preferable for the Bill to be introduced in time for it to move forward under the usual processes, but, as with the other Stormont House Agreement matters, progress on departmental restructuring became possible only following the conclusion of the talks process and the establishing of a new consensus with 'A Fresh Start' three weeks ago. <BR /> <BR />It is essential that the new structures are ready immediately following the 2016 Assembly election so that an Executive can be formed on a nine-Department basis when the next Assembly convenes. To achieve that, it will be necessary for the Departments Bill to complete its passage with sufficient Assembly time left for a debate and affirmative vote on the separate transfer of functions Order that is needed to allocate functions to Departments.”
“I will now detail the reasons why accelerated passage is needed for the Departments Bill. Although it had initially been hoped to introduce the Bill at an earlier stage, it is only now, with the conclusion of the recent talks process and the publication of 'A Fresh Start: The Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan', that it has been possible to bring it forward. <BR /> <BR />'A Fresh Start' reaffirmed the commitment to reduce the number of Departments from 12 to nine in time for the 2016 election and committed to the introduction of the Bill to the Assembly no later than the end of November 2015.”
“He set out a future model of nine Departments with all the powers, functions and services of the current 12 Departments. The allocation of responsibilities was further refined during the recent talks process. <BR /> <BR />The purpose of the Departments Bill is to establish the framework for a new nine-Department structure. It renames seven Departments and dissolves another three. It also makes necessary amendments to the Departments (NI) Order 1999, which provides the basis for the existing 12-Department structure.”
“The policy proposals underpinning the Bill were the subject of detailed consideration during the political process that led to the Stormont House Agreement in December of last year. That agreement determined on a nine-Department model to be established in time for the 2016 elections, with a future allocation of departmental functions to be agreed by the parties. <BR /> <BR />The Executive discussed departmental restructuring on several occasions earlier this year and decided on the names and responsibilities of the future Departments. On 2 March 2015, the decisions that had been reached by the Executive on the new departmental structures in consequence of the Stormont House Agreement were announced in a statement by the First Minister to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am pleased to say that the Committee heard our explanations, questioned us and supported the proposal for the accelerated passage procedure by a majority vote. I wish now to explain those same issues to the Assembly and to seek Members' support for the use of the procedure for the Departments Bill. <BR /> <BR />Reform of the structures of government here has been an issue for a long time. There was a commitment in the Programme for Government to agree changes to the structures that would apply in the next mandate. In 2012, the Assembly and Executive Review Committee produced a report on the reduction in the number of Departments. The report identified areas of commonality broadly comparable to what is now being proposed.”
“The motion was tabled, in accordance with Standing Order 42(4), to seek Assembly approval to the Departments Bill proceeding under the accelerated passage procedure. <BR /> <BR />Accelerated passage is an exceptional procedure. It allows a Bill to proceed without the normal Committee Stage, and less time than usual can elapse between legislative stages. On Monday of last week, in advance of the Bill's introduction in the Assembly, junior Minister Pengelly and I attended a meeting of the OFMDFM Committee, as is required by Standing Order 42(3). We had to explain the reasons behind the accelerated passage procedure being needed for the Bill, the consequences of it not being granted and the steps taken to minimise its future use for OFMDFM Bills.”
“The Member will be aware that it is set out in legislation that we do have to consult so, with any legislative programmes that we are bringing forward, there is a statutory responsibility on all Departments to set out their consultation within a period of time. No matter what area you are working in, you still have to consult with people and put that out for public consultation. That will be happening.”
“As I said to the Member in my previous answer, we have two high-level aims. One is to enable parents to join the workforce. We want to enable this strategy to be affordable for people, because that is a key part of it. We have seen some of the responses to the consultation, and affordability is a key issue. We need to be able to ensure that any subsidies that we give to childcare provision, particularly in areas of disadvantage and need, and where there are families on low income, keep costs very low for parents, as they are in the like of the women's centre childcare fund. In going forward, we will look at all the schemes across the piece to ensure that those parents can avail themselves of that quality childcare.”
“<BR /> <BR />So, when I refer to "sustainability", it is within the context of recognising that government needs to work in partnership with childcare providers to address our shared objectives of addressing child poverty, meeting children's social and emotional developmental needs and providing much-needed employment for childcare workers in areas where there is high unemployment. As I said, "sustainability" does not necessarily mean that those providers have to go on without any subvention. Certainly, there are some provisions that will always need that type of subvention.”
“Sustainability is one of the principles underpinning our childcare strategy. As I said, during the consultation, I heard from many, not only childcare providers but parents, who are concerned about that. Sustainability does not have to mean non-subsidised childcare. For some childcare organisations, subsidies may not be required. However, no subsidies would mean the eradication of childcare provision, especially in some areas across the North where there are high levels of deprivation, particularly areas within my constituency of West Belfast. It is unrealistic, at least in the foreseeable future, to see how some of these areas with extremely high levels of multiple deprivation could support childcare provision without some sort of subvention.”
“I know from talking to some of the providers of women's centre childcare, for instance, that a lot of the mothers who are returning to education or training, or even going into employment, like to be on sites where their children are being looked after. That is very important. Certainly, we will continue with our deliberations with the Minister for Social Development and officials to ensure that there is, hopefully, a seamless move from that funding to the childcare funding, when that has to happen.”
“Yes, I think the Member is right. As you know, the childcare strategy has two high-level aims: to promote child development and to enable parents to get back into the workforce. That has to be, in a sense, parental choice. You made a very valid point regarding the DSD women's centre childcare fund. I have had a number of meetings, and our officials are working very closely with the Minister for Social Development. We want to ensure that the childcare settings that would be adversely affected by the closure of that fund would be open to the new childcare strategy funding, because it is essential.”
“To date, the grant scheme has held two calls for applications and has committed £3 million to projects that will sustain or create approximately 2,200 low-cost quality childcare places, mostly in disadvantaged areas. <BR /> <BR />A third call for applications was launched on 26 November. Other key first actions have enhanced the childcare services for children with a disability and improved the information available to parents on the childcare services available locally. Officials are collating and analysing responses to the public consultation. We will give careful consideration to the range of views put forward to us. We will continue to work in partnership with other Departments through the childcare strategy programme board, and we will aim to finalise the strategy in early 2016.”
“Consultation on the Executive's draft childcare strategy took place between 28 July and 13 November this year. Departmental officials engaged widely with stakeholders during the consultation period to promote awareness and understanding of the draft strategy and to encourage feedback on draft proposals. The childcare strategy will build on the success of the 15 key first actions launched in 2013 to address priority childcare needs identified through early research and consultation. <BR /> <BR />The school-age childcare grant scheme was developed to address priority need. The grant scheme is creating new, low-cost quality school-age childcare places and sustaining the places that we already have.”
“We will make sure that they are involved in any implementation of the strategy, and certainly in any forward thinking. That will be across all Departments because, as I said, we have responsibility for the monitoring and evaluation of that strategy.”
“As I said, it is an Executive strategy and OFMDFM has specific areas of work in bringing that forward. One of those areas is monitoring and evaluating what other Departments are doing. We have published a baseline indicator set, which uses data from 2006 to measure the outputs that are coming forward. <BR /> <BR />We work with the stakeholder groups and, last week, junior Minister Pengelly and I were at an event in the Long Gallery. At that event, people with disabilities told us that they want to be part of any delivery mechanisms going forward. We are putting that in place at OFMDFM level so that it is not just people who are representing the sector who are involved, but those who are facing those disabilities, barriers and challenges every day of their lives.”
“The Member makes a very valid point; those welfare cuts will impact on people with disabilities. As the Member will know, we have secured a £585 million fund, £345 million of which is earmarked for people who will lose money through welfare cuts. <BR /> <BR />As you know, Eileen Evason, who is a sterling campaigner for people on disability benefits, disability rights and all sorts of other areas, will bring forward her proposals after consulting her panel of experts in January — next month. We are hopeful that she will be able to use the envelope of money that we secured in the Fresh Start Agreement to alleviate some of the wider impacts, particularly for those who will lose out from welfare cuts and, as the Member mentioned, those with disabilities.”
“We have contributed funding totalling £459,000 to Special Olympics Ulster and have also sponsored a symposium event. We continue to carry that through. It is an Executive strategy and all Departments have a commitment to input into its implementation and delivery.”
“I certainly can give the guarantee that it will not be diluted in any fashion. I said that we have already taken forward a number of programmes and projects since it was first announced in 2013. We hosted a major conference in May of that year. We also worked in partnership with Disability Action to develop a DVD resource pack, and that was for teachers and youth workers to provide information to pupils.”
“We will shortly be approaching Departments for information on the actions that they have taken during the second year of the implementation of the strategy. <BR /> <BR />In May, junior Minister McIlveen and I announced the extension of the life of the strategy until 2017 to provide additional time to fully implement the recommendations. The extension is our commitment to continue to protect and promote the rights of people with disabilities in our community and will have the additional benefit of providing adequate time to develop, and to consult on, the new strategy.”
“The Executive's disability strategy was launched by the then junior Minister Bell and I in February 2013. The strategy provides a high-level policy framework for all Departments to drive improved service delivery, increase awareness of the needs of people with disabilities and improve opportunities for people with disabilities across all policy areas. The strategy includes priorities and actions to address identified inequalities experienced by people with disabilities and to tackle the barriers that they continue to face in their daily lives. <BR /> <BR />A 2013-14 annual report on the delivery of the disability strategy has been published on the Department's website. It sets out the actions that all Executive Departments have undertaken under the strategy in the first year.”
“I beg to introduce the Departments Bill [NIA 70/11-16], which is a Bill to rename the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister, the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, the Department of Finance and Personnel, the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety, the Department for Regional Development and the Department for Social Development; to dissolve the Department of Culture, Arts and Leisure, the Department of the Environment and the Department for Employment and Learning; and for connected purposes.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she agree that families such as those who lost loved ones in the Ballymurphy massacre in 1971 are entitled to maximum disclosure and that the British Government are protecting the people responsible for that murder and the people in the British state who knew about it? In a sense, they are still covering up what happened by refusing the families an inquiry. That is why it is important that the Stormont House Agreement mechanisms are brought forward in such a way as to give the maximum disclosure that the families are entitled to.”
“I totally appreciate what the Member says, and it is not the first time that this issue has been brought to our attention. Indeed, I think that it was two weeks ago that I spoke to people who were up here in wheelchairs, and they found accessing the Building quite difficult. That is something that we will be raising. You make a very valid point, and we certainly need to practise what we preach, so to speak. If our strategy is asking other places to have disability access, we also need to provide that for people here.”
“We recently had a meeting with local organisations in terms of the UN commissioner who was over. We had gone out and consulted people from those organisations and groups on our disability strategy. They decided that the strategy should roll over into the next period. We are trying to ensure that the UN declaration on people with disabilities is met but that we also ensure that we have a strategy, going forward, which is resourced in such a way that we can introduce some of the signature programmes that we had been discussing in the earlier period with those organisations and groups. That is how we are trying to proceed and take that forward.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have agreed not to appeal the court's judgement and are considering the recent High Court ruling. We will take account of the court's view of our statutory obligations and what is necessary to bring us in line with the requirements in law as well as in our community. We expect to bring forward further proposals in the coming months.”
“The Programme for Government sets the general objectives and direction for the Executive in tackling poverty. It is also the means for integrating the activities of Departments and agencies and utilising and allocating resources between them to meet those objectives. <BR /> <BR />In the Programme for Government, the Executive made a commitment to reduce poverty, promote equality and tackle existing patterns of disadvantage through the Delivering Social Change framework. That framework was established to deliver a sustained reduction in poverty and associated issues across all ages and to improve children and young people's health, well-being and lifetime opportunities, thereby breaking the long-term cycle of multigenerational problems. However, it is clear that a lot more needs to be done to address those issues.”
“The needs of all victims and survivors are and should be central in everybody's mind when we take forward any service. As I said in my previous answer, we have been looking at a number of legacy mechanisms to develop the services, including the mental trauma service. There are also legacy mechanisms to give families the maximum disclosure that they need: the Historical Investigation Unit (HIU), information retrieval and the archive. No matter what we do through legacy mechanisms, it is very important that they are victim-centred and that people should not put party political issues before the needs of victims and survivors in any way.”
“Discussions about this issue are ongoing. It was raised in the Stormont House Agreement, for instance. As you rightly say, there are other issues: the development of the Victims and Survivors Service; the regional mental trauma service; advocacy; and counselling support. Pensions have been part of the negotiations. When taking this forward, we need to be very sensitive to the needs of the people involved. Having met them — I have a meeting today with some victims who were severely injured — we are really listening to their voices and what they are saying. We want to take this forward.”
“Our Department continues to consider proposals for a pension for severely physically injured victims. In conjunction with the Commission for Victims and Survivors and the Victims and Survivors Service, research is ongoing into various issues, such as legislative requirements, to allow the scheme to be implemented in a way that benefits all victims and survivors. In the Stormont House Agreement it was also agreed that further work will be undertaken to seek an acceptable way forward on the proposals. As a result, our Department is looking at drafting a document that will seek opinion on various aspects of the pension proposals. The draft is to be submitted to the Stormont House implementation group for consideration later this month. We remain committed to ensuring that all victims and survivors receive the best services possible.”
“In my previous answers, you heard about the partnership approach that we are taking. At the minute, our officials are drafting a strategy for integration. Basically, we are working away. Two groups are working at the Executive level: a strategic group that is headed up by OFMDFM, and also an operational group. There are separate groups in council areas as well. We have had a number of meetings; I myself have met a number of the NGOs and local organisations that are already working with refugees who are already here and seeking asylum. The learned experiences that those people have passed on to those organisations and which the organisations are passing on to us are going to be pivotal in taking this forward.”
“You make a very valid point. It is essential that we have an approach of partnership working. As I said, there are people who are already here who have experienced the difficulties of coming here, when, for example, you do not know the language. In the first year, we will put on English language classes and so on. Also, we will look to ensure that their health and housing needs are met. We will look for places so that the education needs of their children are met. Some of these people are very vulnerable and will need special services, such as counselling and other support services. We will look to local community groups and those organisations on the ground, particularly the council representatives, because the services need to be organised in a joined-up way if we are to get the maximum benefit from them.”
“A lot of them are women and children, and they have been through great hardship and difficulties already. We need to ensure that we have the services in place, right across the board, that will meet their needs. You are certainly right about that approach, and we will look to make sure that those organisations are resourced.”
“I can tell the Member that we will be receiving more refugees, but on a phased basis. Obviously, you point out that there are already people here who are refugees or asylum seekers. They are from Syria and other countries. We need to ensure that those people are looked after, as well. The best way of doing it is in a partnership, collaborative approach because we also need to ensure that the groups, particularly the local groups — the voluntary and community organisations like NICRAS and others — are resourced and able to pass on whatever knowledge they have. From speaking to some people who have already come here about the difficulties that they face even as we speak, I know that we need to ensure that the people who come here in December — because they are very vulnerable people, as well.”
“There is an overall group that the councils are represented on. I have met the mayors of a number of councils, along with voluntary and community organisations and NGOs that deal with refugees on a daily basis. People are very keen to work together. Obviously, there is a great deal of goodwill out there among local people. We want to get the maximum benefit from that. Councils have a pivotal role to play.”
“As the Member says, local councils have a really pivotal role in this. They are already on the operational group that is headed up by DSD. They have expressed a willingness to play a role in creating a welcoming environment and working with communities and everything else. A number of councils have already convened their own groups. In your council area of Derry and Strabane, the group consists of church leaders, elected representatives, community leaders and representatives from minority groups. There is also a representation from the business and charity sectors. The local mayor has already joined with Trócaire to set up a special tax-giving service to allow people to donate to an emergency refugee fund. Belfast City Council also already has a subgroup that meets on a regular basis.”
“These include the process for managing their arrival, the availability of translators and interpreters, and health, housing and education requirements. We are also taking into account any implications for the existing community. We are working closely with NGOs to ensure that we draw on their expertise and experience and involve them in our arrangements. Their support has been very helpful, particularly in ensuring that we develop plans that effectively meet the social and cultural needs of refugees and support their integration. Although the Executive are taking the lead, councils have the essential role of preparing communities for new arrivals and ensuring that they are welcomed with dignity and respect.”
“We have committed to welcoming between 50 and 100 refugees by December under the vulnerable persons relocation scheme, with the intention that further groups would arrive on a phased basis. By taking this approach, we hope to resolve any unforeseen issues that might arise before further refugees arrive. We anticipate that the first group of refugees will arrive before Christmas. They will spend a short period in a welcome centre to provide orientation and prepare them for life here. Initially, they will be placed in temporary accommodation, most likely in the greater Belfast area. <BR /> <BR />The strategic and operational groups are considering a wide range of factors to ensure that we meet refugees' needs.”
“As you will know, officials have had discussions about the Bill. Much of that discussion has centred on Departments with a responsibility for providing services for children, such Education, Health and DSD. It is also about budgets: while we need the framework of working through Delivering Social Change, we also need to get it resourced. There have been ongoing discussions. I can write to the Member to give him a detailed account of any that have taken place with DFP in particular, but when we look at any framework, provision or even strategy, it has to be resourced as well. Having the funding and resource in place is a very important element.”
“That will benefit children and young people the most in delivering services and dealing with issues and their needs.”
“The Member will be aware that we have had discussions with him on his private Member's Bill. Through our Delivering Social Change framework, we are keen to have something that works better for children and young people. It does not help anyone when Departments are in different silos, particularly when we are dealing with children. We have a number of cross-departmental early intervention programmes. Education, Health and DSD are involved in some of those, and even the Department of Justice to a degree. None of the early intervention programmes that we have brought forward have sat in any particular Department; they are all very much cross-departmental. You are totally right that we need to have the type of structure and framework that all Departments can buy into.”
“We are trying to ensure provision for childcare, but there are other issues that will impact on all of that. We will try to do our best, in our childcare strategy, to mitigate the cost as much as possible.”