Jennifer McCann
West Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I have listened to the answers that you have given. What steps will you and your Department take to address the issue? As you mentioned, quite a percentage of schools are failing to meet the entitlement framework requirements. What actual steps will your Department take?”
“I begin by echoing what my two colleagues said: we will oppose the motion and support the DUP amendment. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the general direction of travel of the draft area plan. It puts the needs of children and young people at the heart of the planning process.”
“I want to say again — we have had this in debates — about the excellent results in my constituency of West Belfast in educational outcomes. It clearly shows that, when the right intervention is made in those areas, the children shine and their potential comes through.”
“It is not just about their academic achievements but about giving them the skills to deal with life's problems and difficulties. <BR /> <BR />The plan also seeks to close the attainment gap. That issue should be of great concern to all of us and the wider community.”
“I hope that in the final area planning it will be. I have seen it at first hand with programmes like New Start in west Belfast. We all want children to go to mainstream education, but, for whatever reason, mainstream education just does not suit some children's needs and does not do it for them.”
“It is not just about school buildings, but school buildings sometimes can be crucial, particularly in an area where, for instance, they do not have sporting facilities in a school. The Minister will be aware of the campaign in the Colin area of west Belfast for a new school.”
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“For example, I know of one neighbourhood where flags went up when people from a certain religious background moved in. We have to break down those sorts of attitudes and prejudices. It is about looking at the causes and not just treating the symptoms. I do not know whether that answers your question, but I will come back —”
“I am not aware of the individual panel — we have met, I think, about three times; that is when I have been at meetings. But there are also thematic subgroups. <BR /> <BR />Just to answer your colleague's query, I know about the shared neighbourhoods. We are of a firm belief that allocation of housing should be based on need. That is how all housing allocation should be delivered. I have worked with people who have moved into particular shared neighbourhoods, if you like, and the difficulty is, that when people move into neighbourhoods where one section of the community has been living rather than it being shared, sometimes they can be frightened by incidents.”
“<BR /> <BR />Thematic subgroups will also be established under the auspices of the ministerial panel to reflect the key priorities of the strategy. The membership of each of these subgroups will comprise representation from statutory organisations, alongside community representatives and key stakeholder groups. The chairs of these subgroups —”
“<BR /> <BR />As a means of harnessing that collective commitment across government, the ministerial panel, which comprises all Ministers of the Executive, sets the strategic direction for improving good relations across our society, oversees the delivery and implementation of the strategy, and monitors progress through a robust action planning and reporting process. Each Minister is required to report against the actions and targets attributed to his or her Department and show how and to what extent departmental policies are achieving the objectives aligned to this strategy. To reflect our commitment to collaborative working, the membership of the ministerial panel will also include high-level representation from statutory agencies and the voluntary and community sector.”
“<BR /> <BR />The implementation of a strategy of this depth and scale cannot be undertaken by one Department or agency, and effective delivery against the targets and commitments will depend wholly on a collaborative approach across all sectors in our society. Therefore, the strategy provides for the establishment of a number of structures that, together, will make up the delivery and implementation architecture to oversee progress in achieving our vision of that united, shared and reconciled community.”
“Can I just finish off, and then I will take your point at the end? Is that OK? <BR /> <BR />This is an Executive strategy that places responsibilities on all Departments. The Executive are committed to meeting the aims and objectives that are outlined in the strategy. OFMDFM remains committed to continuing to provide leadership and drive forward this important agenda in order to achieve positive good-relations outcomes and build a united, shared and reconciled community. However, we recognise that OFMDFM cannot achieve that alone. The actions required to achieve real, meaningful and positive change across our society demand the commitment of all Departments, statutory agencies, district councils and the community as a whole.”
“This strategy reflects the Executive's commitment to improving community relations and building a united and shared society. Tackling issues of segregation and identifying opportunities for the development of shared spaces and services across the region is a key objective of 'Together: Building a United Community'. The strategy outlines a vision based on equality of opportunity, the desirability of good relations and reconciliation. It provides the framework for government action in tackling sectarianism, racism and other forms of intolerance whilst seeking to address division, hate and separation.”
“That is why the First Minister and the deputy First Minister announced the publication of 'Together: Building a United Community' in May last year.”
“Addressing the challenges left by a legacy of division is a strategic priority for all of us and vital to building a stronger, more united and diverse community. We need to address the causes of division: the attitudes, the prejudices and the behaviours that manifest themselves as sectarianism and racism on our streets. Reducing costs will not be a sustainable exercise if we do so simply by closing a particular facility or service in a specific location without addressing the circumstances that created the duplication in the first place. <BR /> <BR />The Executive's commitment to tackling division and building a united community is clear. One of the key priorities in the draft Programme for Government is to build a strong and shared community. That can be achieved only when we work to reduce segregation and separation.”
“<BR /> <BR />The research characterised areas of spend as follows: direct costs arising from civil unrest; less obvious, but no less real, costs arising from the need to provide services separately to meet the needs of the two communities; costs due to additional expenditure on a variety of activities, including community relations work and promoting the North as a tourist destination and an inward investment location; and the lost opportunity cost of underdeveloped economic sectors, such as tourism. <BR /> <BR />The key outcome of the research confirmed that there is a strong economic case for promoting sharing over separation. However, we in the Executive are convinced that building a united community should not be based only on economic imperatives.”
“The research provides an upper limit of the costs of the divide by comparing the North's public expenditure as a percentage of GDP with that of other comparable regions. That comparison indicates a maximum additional spend in the range of £1·5 billion, but a wide range of other factors influence that level of spend, such as deprivation and demographics, not just the impact of the divide or the Troubles. The £1·5 billion figure is not the total of the costs that could be identified but a comparator with other regions.”
“Go raibh maith agat. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the cost of division and the work that we are doing to address the many legacies of the past and to build a united, shared and reconciled community and a better future for all our people. <BR /> <BR />The cost of division research was commissioned on 29 March 2006 and, as such, was conducted and finalised during direct rule. It is independent research, and the interpretation of and commentary on the data sets contained in the report represent the views of Deloitte and not those of the First Minister, the deputy First Minister or the Executive. The report does not form an agreed basis for future policy development. <BR /> <BR />The report cites £1·5 billion as the estimated value of additional annual expenditure as a result of division in our society.”
“While we are trying our best to ensure that the projects from the social investment fund go forward, there is a danger that a lot of programmes, projects and essential services for people on the ground — front-line services — will be affected.”
“We are dealing with Budget pressures because of the cuts to the block grant. Some £3·6 billion has been taken out of the Budget in previous years, and 2015-16, the last year of the four-year Budget cycle, will definitely be the worst year. We hope that the social investment fund will go forward. I know that 23 projects have already been signed off, and others are waiting to be signed off. They are projects that will make a big difference in communities and have been developed from the community side up. We are hopeful that we will be able to deliver those. However, unless we get the economic injection that the deputy First Minister talked about, we will face more economic constraints than we have probably ever faced before.”
“It is not up to OFDMFM to agree or disagree with the Equality Commission. It is its own body and it has an independent role to advance fairness and equality for all. It is also responsible for implementing legislation on all those cases and challenging discrimination. We have to leave it to the Equality Commission because, at the end of the day, that will be where it will see whether discrimination happened. I am sure that the Equality Commission will have taken whatever measures it could have before entering into that case.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I am aware that some discussions took place between the Equality Commission and the bakery prior to the civil case being taken. The main issue is the extent to which suppliers of goods and services can refuse service on the grounds of sexual orientation, religious beliefs or political opinion. I think that the civil case will determine whether any discrimination has taken place.”
“Nobody should be putting up any barriers to bringing forward equality legislation and, indeed, the equality principles and the ethos of equality. In my view, it is the only thing that will challenge bigotry, intolerance and the disrespect that many people have for other people's culture, religion and sexual orientation. In my mind, it is the only way that we can ensure that people are treated with respect and dignity.”
“I will say to the Member, as I said in my previous answers, that the equality agenda needs to be totally adhered to by all. I believe that it is only through the process and the equality agenda and, indeed, through progressing issues like a bill of rights for the North, where everyone will be entitled to equality —”
“I do not think that any politicisation of any issue on equality is acceptable. Equality is, as I said, a basic human right for people. I think that everyone should be treated the same. We should respect and be tolerant of people and respect diversity. We need to be enforcing all equality legislation that is there now in any way that we can, and we need to ensure that it is monitored and that all equality legislation in central government, local government and, indeed, any public bodies is adhered to. I believe that nobody should use equality in any way for political reasons.”
“The Member makes a very valid point. At present, anti-discrimination legislation in the North, as I said, covers all the elements that I discussed in my previous answer. There is a lot of equality legislation out there, and there was a lot of support for a single equality Bill to be brought forward. That is because the idea of harmonising all the existing provisions into one piece of legislation through a single equality Bill and extending and updating it where appropriate seemed to be the best way forward. While it has not moved forward since 2006, I hope that there is still agreement to take that single equality Bill forward.”
“Gerry Adams has already clarified his position on those comments. In terms of OFMDFM's responsibility, we are certainly committed to equality and will continue to work for the removal of any barriers that prevent it. That equality has to go right across the board. It is about social equality, economic equality and cultural equality. No one should be trying to put up barriers or to prevent equality legislation being brought forward in any way.”
“The statutory obligations are largely implemented through equality schemes approved by the Equality Commission and by screening and carrying out equality impact assessments on policies. All Government policy is developed in the context of the equality of opportunity provisions set out in section 75(1) of the NI Act 1998.”
“Section 75 of the NI Act 1998, together with schedule 9 to the Act, place a statutory obligation on public authorities in carrying out their various functions to have due regard to the need to promote equality of opportunity between persons of different religious belief, political opinion, racial group, age, marital status or sexual orientation. It is also between men and women generally, between persons with a disability and persons without a disability and between persons with dependants and persons without dependants. <BR /> <BR />In addition, without prejudice to that obligation, public authorities are also required to have regard to the desirability of promoting good relations between persons of different religious belief, political opinion and racial group.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I found the discussion of languages quite beneficial. The Irish language — I am assuming that is what the Member is referring to — is a very vibrant language, which is treasured by a certain community. We have to look at the Gaeltacht Quarter and how it has developed and sustained a vibrant economy. There is benefit in maximising and realising all the social and economic benefits that come from that.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He makes a valid point about the importance of translating for people from countries that do not have English as their first language. We are looking at making it easy for people to understand services that are there for them, and we need to ensure that interpretive services are provided in a language that people understand. The Gaeltacht Quarter or the Ulster-Scots hub and visitor centre, which opened last week, are also very important because it is not just about the language; it is about people learning about the culture and all that. It is important that those places are open for people, particularly those from different ethnic minority backgrounds, so that we have that richness. Diversity is where we want to go; we want to see respect and tolerance, as they make our whole society much richer.”
“I thank the Member for his question. I agree that making a mockery of someone's language or insulting an entire language community serves no purpose at all. I made some comments in my previous answer about the legislation. Also discussed at the meeting was the importance of encouraging and developing early years education and learning through the medium of a particular language. If people start learning a language at an early stage and it is open to all members of the community, that is the way to show clear respect. As the language develops, it will gain respect from all communities, no matter which community anyone is from.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I said in my previous answer, there was quite a lengthy discussion around how legislation enshrines the rights of speakers, particularly the Irish language Act here. The Member will be aware that the CAL Minister believes that legislation is very important for the status that it affords the language and for protecting the rights of citizens to use it. Obviously, it requires the agreement of the Executive and the Assembly. The Minister is on record as saying that, if local agreement cannot be achieved, there is a commitment in the St Andrews Agreement for the British Government to introduce an Irish language Act here. The Minister believes that they should honour that commitment.”
“I thank the Member for his question. As I said, the meeting received a presentation from Professor Rob Dunbar, which discussed languages legislation and embedding indigenous minority languages in legislation. There was quite a bit of discussion on the Scottish and Welsh models in particular and on how, when legislation is brought forward, the rights of those language speakers are enshrined in law, how that affords protection for the rights of citizens to use those languages and how it also helps to develop the languages. Ministers felt that it was important to enshrine that in legislation.”
“I thank the Member for his question. He is aware that I attended the BIC meeting on behalf of the Culture Minister. I do not have the complete answer that he requires, but I will certainly pass his question on to the Minister and maybe get a written reply.”
“They especially commended the range of bilateral and other relationships built up and facilitated through membership of the Council and the opportunities that those relationships have presented. Particularly noteworthy is the fact that these contacts have been beneficial for the smaller BIC Administrations. <BR /> <BR />Finally, the Council considered and approved proposals for the future work programme of the IML languages work sector. This will focus on issues relating to language learning for adults, marketing, the arts and digital media, the links between language and the wider economy, and the role of the community in sustaining IML languages. The Council also expressed its view that the three-year cycle between ministerial meetings was too lengthy and requested that consideration be given to more regular ministerial meetings.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Council noted the report and discussed the important role that legislative, regulatory and policy approaches can play in support of IML languages, whether suitable initiatives in this regard may be appropriate to their jurisdiction and how continued sharing of best practice in the area of language legislation and/or regulation could further support IML languages across the BIC jurisdictions. <BR /> <BR />The Council also reviewed a report prepared by officials detailing the other activities of the IML languages work sector since the last ministerial meeting in November 2011. Ministers noted the continuing sharing of good practice between member Administrations on language issues.”
“<BR /> <BR />The meeting also received a presentation by Professor Rob Dunbar from Edinburgh University on the second theme of the meeting, which focused on the official report of the British-Irish Council’s seminar on language policy and legislation. The seminar was held in Edinburgh in November 2013 and considered language legislation in BIC member Administrations and further afield. It also considered how to embed IML languages in other legislation; the role of policy as opposed to legislation in supporting and developing IML languages; external influences on IML languages policy; and reflections on the first year of the Welsh Language Commissioner.”
“The Council endorsed a paper that captured the key issues in developing and supporting early years education and childcare within indigenous, minority, and lesser-used language communities. The Council also agreed the important role that encouraging linguistic continuity can play through the use of IML languages in childcare and early years education settings in each jurisdiction. In order to achieve that, it is necessary to identify needs, plan for provision and develop resources in the workforce, including through relevant professional development. Quality practice development and the use of relevant research also have a key role to play.”
“The Scottish Government were represented by Alasdair Allan MSP, Minister for Learning, Science and Scotland’s Languages. The Government of Guernsey were represented by Deputy Michael O'Hara, Minister at the Culture and Leisure Department. The Government of Jersey were represented by Tony Scott Warren, language officer. Finally, the Isle of Man Government were represented by the Tim Crookall MHK, the Minister for Education and Children. <BR /> <BR />One of the two main themes of the meeting focused on the place of indigenous, minority and lesser-used languages in early years education. This is an area that Ministers had asked officials to examine and was the subject of an expert and stakeholder seminar entitled ‘Promoting IML languages through early years education’ organised by the British-Irish Council in Cardiff in November 2012.”
“Go raibh maith agat, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. In accordance with the statutory requirements, I wish to make the following statement on the indigenous, minority and lesser-used languages (IML) meeting of the British-Irish Council (BIC), which took place in Cardiff on 24 October 2014. I attended the meeting as appropriate Minister in place of the Minister of Culture Arts and Leisure, who was unable to attend. The Minister for Social Development attended as accompanying Minister. <BR /> <BR />The Welsh Government hosted the meeting, which was chaired by Carwyn Jones AM, First Minister of Wales. The Irish Government were represented by Joe McHugh TD, Minister of State for Gaeltacht Affairs. The British Government were represented by Clive Barbour, head of international, social and economic engagement at the NIO.”
“I encourage everyone to strongly challenge ageism wherever and whenever they encounter it. It is critical that we recognise our debt to older people for all their support and expertise and for the leadership that they have shown us. I am sure that there is not one person in the House tonight who does not have a grandparent or an elderly aunt, uncle, mother or father who they have gained from and used as a role model. It is very important that this motion has all-party support tonight.”
“<BR /> <BR />In order to address the challenges to people fulfilling their potential in later life, we are, as I said, in the process of finalising the active ageing strategy. We will continue to work with our ageing strategy advisory group, which includes, as members, older people and representatives from organisations with expertise in this area. At our request, the Commissioner for Older People chairs that group. The strategy's vision for the North is to be an age-friendly region in which people, as they age, are valued and supported to live actively to their fullest potential with their rights respected and their dignity protected. <BR /> <BR />I very much welcome the research that has been published in this area, which highlights the very positive contribution that older people make to our society.”
“The benefits of living longer will only be realised if we recognise and respond to both the challenges and opportunities that it brings. In order to do that, we must first listen to older people and discover precisely what services and policies they want and are entitled to have in place. We must then involve older people in their delivery so that those services can change to meet their needs. <BR /> <BR />Over the years, the Executive's policies have focused on the health and social care needs and inequalities faced by the growing number of older people in our society. While we need to continue to support the proportion of older people who have health needs, we also need to recognise that older people are changing and are living more active and fulfilling lives.”
“For example, people from minority ethnic communities may have particular experiences and needs, especially around language issues, obtaining information about services that they are entitled to, discrimination and feelings of isolation. Older women who have remained at home or worked part-time owing to caring responsibilities may have less pension income than men as they will not have built up as much of a personal employer's pension, and they may live in poverty and fuel poverty as a consequence. <BR /> <BR />Fear of crime is another major issue of concern to older people. More generally, it is important to stress that, for some older people but not all, living longer can also mean living longer with illness, disability or a dependency on others.”
“Too many older people are living in social disadvantage and poverty, particularly fuel poverty. As part of the development of the Active Ageing strategy, which we are currently finalising, we have strategic aims to address those issues, and we will work with Departments to develop the outcomes that we want to achieve. We have also worked with Departments to develop signature programme proposals under the Delivering Social Change framework. The programmes are designed to complement the existing programmes, policies and services of all Departments that have primary responsibility for tackling these issues. <BR /> <BR />We need to recognise that individuals' personal circumstances will impact on how ageing affects them.”
“She is from Derry. That is right, Pat. <BR /> <BR />By being active users or customers of community-based facilities and resources such as local shops, post offices and libraries, older people are supporting the viability of local services. They also play a central role in contributing to childcare. Grandparents are often unpaid childcare workers who enable parents to work. Older people vote in much greater numbers than those in other age groups, supporting the democratic process. Although those things cannot be quantified in cash terms, they are no less valuable and vital and must be recognised as such. <BR /> <BR />We acknowledge the many contributions made by older people to our society, but we must not lose sight of the significant challenges faced by some.”
“They have high levels of membership and leadership of many local organisations, groups and societies, and they also share their time, skills and knowledge through volunteering. Indeed, Minister Bell and I had the pleasure of hearing Mary Scally, at the launch of the report at the MAC, talk about her experience of volunteering and the many hours that she is giving to many volunteer programmes and projects, from which she gets a lot back.”
“<BR /> <BR />Additionally, research has shown that holding negative attitudes towards ageing when people are younger may cause poorer health for those people when they in turn reach old age, and it may even lead to a shorter life. The prejudice becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, so it is in all our interests to view the entire life course as the positive, fulfilling journey that it can be. <BR /> <BR />We need to instil respect in our communities for the older population: people who have often worked all their life, raised a family and supported others. As well as the financial contribution that our older people make to the economy, we need to recognise their non-financial contributions as well. There are many examples of our older people providing valuable services to the community.”
“<BR /> <BR />The focus on costs in discussions about people living longer implies that the key factor in getting older is that people become ill, frail and dependent. The reality is that the great majority of older people are living healthier and active lives. That is an issue that many older people feel strongly about. During the recent consultation on the draft Active Ageing strategy, many people expressed anger about the ageism, discrimination and disrespect that older people experience. It is a prejudice that some people feel no qualms about expressing, and that should not be tolerated in any society. It is very important that we challenge prejudice and ensure that people are aware of the very significant contribution that our older people make to society.”
“<BR /> <BR />That should be the starting point for any discussion about what is referred to as the "ageing population". For example, the size of our working-age population is declining, yet many people in their 50s who need to change jobs or their career to continue working to support their family are unable to do so because older workers can be particularly disadvantaged owing to unfair attitudes about their ability to work. That could become an even greater problem in the future as the state pension age rises. People with decades of experience and many skills could become benefit claimants for many years before getting their pension, and we need to tackle ageist attitudes wherever they are found.”
“The trend is expected to continue, and the number of people in that age group is projected to increase by 12% between 2012 and 2017 and by 64% between 2012 and 2032. <BR /> <BR />It is good news for all of us. It means that people should be able to enjoy an active life for longer and be able to share their skills, knowledge and experience with the rest of the population. We all gain from the contribution of older people to society. However, too often, the discussion on this topic focuses solely on greater pension and health and social care costs. That is a highly imbalanced and inaccurate picture and feeds prejudice against older people. We do face challenges in those areas, but the central fact is that, as a society, we greatly benefit from people living longer and contributing longer.”
“I know that Claire Keatinge and her team have worked tirelessly to bring issues facing our older population to the fore and to help to change attitudes to this valuable and diverse section of our community. <BR /> <BR />The publication of the report is particularly relevant given the changes in population here. Over the 10-year period between 2002 and 2012, the number of adults aged 65 and over increased by 20%.”
“Go raibh maith agat. I am grateful to be afforded the opportunity to respond to the motion. Junior Minister Bell and I welcome research of this kind, and, indeed, we attended the launch of the report on 1 October in the MAC in Belfast. It was a very informative and well-supported event. <BR /> <BR />When the First Minister and deputy First Minister were taking legislation through the Assembly to create the office of the Commissioner for Older People, they felt it critical that promoting positive attitudes towards older people should be a major part of the role of the commissioner. In fact, the Commissioner for Older People Act 2011 places a legal obligation on the commissioner to do so.”
“As I said, a board decided what projects the money would go to. <BR /> <BR />The Member's colleague made an outrageous statement about the SIF funding, I think, last week. He said that it was going to pet projects of republicans and loyalists: there is nothing further from the truth. That is insulting to those who decided on the programmes and on where the money would go. They have worked for years in the community and are from the statutory bodies that are on the board. They decided what programmes and projects would be taken forward.”
“The social investment fund (SIF) was created to try to tackle poverty and disadvantage. A group was set up to plan ahead, and that group chose the projects for the particular zones and the allocations for the zones. <BR /> <BR />Some 23 letters of offer have gone out. The people on the ground and those who were part of the social investment fund board in the local zones chose what important projects the money should go into, so it is important that they go forward. In community planning and all of that, those on the ground deal with the issues every day and know what is needed to tackle poverty and disadvantage.”