Daithí McKay
North Antrim · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“Will the First Minister give us a more detailed update on the civic advisory panel? Would she also agree that, as we face what is, undoubtedly, a political and economic abyss, it is more important than ever that we hear from civic voices in society as well as political leadership?”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I recognise much of the work that is ongoing. Given the recent reported and alleged race crime in the Minister's constituency involving several members of the police, will she give us an assurance that a proper and fully independent investigation will be carried out?”
“<BR /> <BR />In recent years, it has become harder and harder to secure your vote. In that context, it does not make sense that support to secure the vote is withdrawn from those on the ground when they need it more than ever. I am sure that most people picked up anecdotes when canvassing in the recent election.”
“We should move forward with confidence and take on more powers to ensure that we protect local services and workers. <BR /> <BR />Look at the list of offices to be impacted: Ballymena, Banbridge, Omagh, Derry, Newtownabbey and Newtownards. If all those were to close, it would leave a huge gap in rural constituencies.”
“I thank the proposers of the motion for bringing it to the House. I am moving the amendment on behalf of Sinn Féin. <BR /> <BR />I think that all 108 Members received a letter from NIPSA concerning the action that has been taken. The letter also highlights the lack of accountability regarding local politicians.”
“I did so along with other MLAs from all the parties locally, so we are unanimously opposed to the decision there. But, we are all 108 locally elected politicians who are powerless to do anything about this. That is why we should see these small — I have to say they are small — but significant functions being transferred to Belfast.”
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“I spoke to one amateur sporting club member in recent days who told me that her rural club was considering building extra facilities but rates would be a major factor and, if the annual overhead was too much, the club would not proceed with that extra facility in a rural community. That club has no licensed bar, but I know of many clubs with a bar that have great facilities. Some have facilities in rural communities that have not benefited from one pound of government funding but have provided a fantastic public service in those communities for generations. They should not be treated differently from other clubs simply because they have a bar to fundraise for their facilities, for their underage teams or for bus fares to take the players to matches. Many rugby clubs will not benefit if the amendment is not agreed.”
“One of the main characters is a local man who comes home from living in London. After he comes home, he promises his wife that he will not become too involved in the local club. Within a short time, he is out at the club every night of the week, and he ends up coaching the underage players and managing and playing in the senior team. There are so many men and women who make that kind of commitment all year round and do not seek any praise or reward. Some end up divorced, and some do not. They turn so many people's lives around. They are leaders for our young people and our children; they are on the front line of our public health service; and they save government millions in recreation provision and health spending. <BR /> <BR />The money saved through this relief will be of huge benefit to the people who drive our amateur sporting clubs.”
“The purpose of the amendment is to provide relief to sports clubs so that the money saved can be used for reinvestment in sport, in our children and our young people and in the community as a whole. I want to state from the outset my appreciation of the fact that the Department and the Minister have listened to my argument about supporting our local community amateur sports clubs and adopted a position of offering extra relief to many clubs that carry out tireless work, day in day out. That is to be welcomed and will no doubt be appreciated by the many clubs that will benefit. <BR /> <BR />I was in Ahoghill in my constituency last Friday night to watch a comedy play called 'St Mungo's', which is about a local GAA club; it is absolutely fantastic viewing, regardless of whether or not you are into GAA.”
“The Member makes an excellent point. Any opposition worth its salt, whether in the Government or out of the Government, or whether it does not know where it is at in regard to the Government, produces an alternative document when it comes to the Budget. We do it in the Dáil. The parties here have failed to produce a single page of an alternative to the Budget.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Member referred to the A6 from Randalstown to Crawfordsburn. It is actually from Randalstown to Castledawson roundabout. The Member would do well to read the document before passing comment on that piece of infrastructure.”
“I have no time, unfortunately. From what I see before us today, it is a good deal for those west of the Bann and for those in Donegal. I will close on that point, and I look forward to the debate.”
“Others Members from my party will address these matters, but we now have a start ahead of us for the A5 and A6. That is good for rural areas. We will deliver infrastructure for all those rural commuters, and, of course, the A26 continues apace as well. That is a great result for the city of Derry. It is a great result for all those along that route. I know that some parties will try to ignore that fact, but from what I can see in the Budget —”
“On corporation tax, we need to have a strong position on the taxation benefits that will go to London as a result of any reduction in corporation tax to 12·5%, as has been mooted. I believe that the principle has already been accepted by Treasury in regard to the Scottish Government that, if a taxation policy changes and there are additional revenues due to London, they have a duty to ensure that the devolved Administration are compensated to some extent. <BR /> <BR />Those are two major issues that I believe that the Executive and the incoming Minister will need to look at. <BR /> <BR />Due to the lack of time that I have, I will conclude. The fair deal that has been put forward — the Fresh Start Agreement — has been a good deal.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need to look at how we can have a level playing field across the island when it comes to air passenger duty in order to ensure that Belfast International Airport, Belfast City Airport and the City of Derry Airport all get a good deal and that we can open new routes. New routes into the North are not just about holidaymakers; they are also about economic growth and building business connections, because there is a dearth of connections, especially to Germany. That is something that needs to be addressed as well as the transatlantic routes that the Executive have already dealt with.”
“As we face elections and the making-up of a new Assembly, we need to look forward not only to this financial year but to the next five years. There are a number of challenges on which the Assembly and Executive have done well in terms of the deal that was put forward, but we need to ensure that we get a fair deal on corporation tax. In the time ahead, the Executive also need to consider air passenger duty. A number of stakeholders in that sector and in tourism noted their concerns about the fact that there is a differential across the island. That has an effect; and we and the Executive recognised that when we addressed the issue of the long-haul rate in response to the decision around the New York route.”
“I look forward to the Department engaging with the Committee with a view to seeing a finalised draft MOU being considered and agreed, by the Executive and the Assembly respectively, in time for the next Budget process. <BR /> <BR />Amongst the external factors that will need to be addressed is the impact that the timing of the Treasury’s spending reviews have on the Budget processes of the devolved Administrations. I welcome the fact that the previous Finance Minister joined her counterparts in Scotland and Wales in raising that concern with the Treasury. However, I believe that further influence will need to be brought to bear on this matter going forward. <BR /> <BR />I will now make a few comments from a party position.”
“Committee members were also keen to explore the implications of the voluntary exit scheme for DFP as a Department. The Committee will be monitoring the practical outworkings of losing 10% of DFP staff, the implications for sick absence, the savings realisation in respect of space reduction and the implications of additional functions and associated staff being transferred from OFMDFM. <BR /> <BR />The draft memorandum of understanding (MOU) on the Budget process, which the Committee and the Department have been preparing jointly, should be moved forward apace. It needs to be workable and it is long overdue for a number of reasons, which the Minister, as well as other Members, will understand.”
“The officials helpfully pointed out that, despite the shortcomings in the process, it would still be possible for Committees to have influence. This could be during the upcoming June monitoring process, when the new Ministers will have considerable flexibility to reallocate resources and capital within their specific departmental budgetary envelopes. <BR /> <BR />Several other cross-departmental issues were discussed during last week’s briefing from DFP. These included what consideration has been given to revenue-raising measures and the need for robust action to avoid any year-end underspend exceeding the Budget exchange levels, especially in light of the absence of any overcommitment being carried into this Budget. The officials emphasised how challenging the Department’s own budget allocation for 2016-17 will be.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee received a briefing from officials on the overall budgetary position but, due to the time constraints that applied, the briefing focused on process and outcome. During the briefing, departmental officials explained that the construct of this Budget had been a unique exercise, with three distinct variables added to a very tight timescale. Those included the political context of the Fresh Start Agreement, the lateness of the Treasury’s spending review and the challenge of planning the transfer of functions order to merge 12 Departments into nine. <BR /> <BR />Mindful of the time constraints, I pressed the departmental officials on the scope that exists for Assembly Committees to influence any changes to this draft Budget.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. At the outset, I should point out that, by convention, the Committee for Finance and Personnel normally undertakes a coordinated scrutiny of the draft Executive Budget. On previous occasions, this has resulted in a cross-cutting report containing contributions from all the Assembly Statutory Committees and other stakeholders. The purpose of this is to influence positive change and add value to this debate. This has not, however, been possible on this occasion, due to the circumstances surrounding this Budget, which the previous Minister described as extremely challenging. The normal consultation process has been set aside.”
“That imbalance is not in the Bill, which is quite wide in scope, but in the policy direction that the previous Minister outlined. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, the Bill is a move in the right direction. Whilst there are still differences between my position and the Department's position, given that Consideration Stage and Further Consideration Stage are coming up, there are opportunities to have further discussions and conversations about where we can reach consensus. It may not be possible at the end of the day, but the Assembly will have an opportunity to debate this further and vote on which way it feels the Department should move forward on community and amateur sports clubs.”
“Regardless of the fierce disagreement at Second Stage of the private Member's Bill — there is no need to rehearse those arguments — we should continue to try to seek consensus on this issue. <BR /> <BR />My concern is that there is a possibility of creating, in effect, two tiers of community and amateur sports clubs. As the Committee found out, there is a disproportionate impact on rugby clubs, almost all of which find themselves on the wrong side of the divide. That said, I recognise that the Department has moved on the issue. In its proposals, as outlined by the previous Minister, it uses the CASC criteria, as I proposed, and introduces 100% relief as proposed — just not for clubs with bars. In light of that, I am considering bringing forward amendments to try to address the imbalance.”
“I appreciate the Minister's kind words this morning.”
“This would leave councils, which have local knowledge, to apply the enhanced relief. The Committee commissioned the Assembly Research and Information Service on that point, and its research was circulated to members just in time for today's debate. I am sure that the Committee will wish to share that research with the Department. <BR /> <BR />It would be useful if the Minister could comment on that and on the other issues that I referred to when he makes his winding-up speech. In particular, it would be helpful to have clarity on the envisaged timetable for the subordinate legislation under clause 1 and, more generally, on how the delegated powers will operate, including whether they will be consistent with provisions in the Rates Order. <BR /> <BR />I will now make a few comments from a personal position and on behalf of Sinn Féin.”
“It was clear, therefore, that the Department's proposed regulations under clause 1 would not provide any major benefit to local rugby clubs overall. <BR /> <BR />From the other perspective, in the evidence from Hospitality Ulster and some local businesses, the Committee heard concerns that, in some instances, licensed CASCs openly have regular weekly functions to generate income and that that can impact on the ability of local bars and restaurants to compete. <BR /> <BR />One area discussed during the panel briefings was the potential for applying a revenue or receipts threshold when assessing rates relief to licensed CASCs. At its meeting on 9 December, the Committee discussed the issues with departmental officials, including whether there would be scope to empower local government with similar powers to those applying in Britain.”
“That raised the issue of whether the sporting facilities of licensed clubs will, in effect, be penalised compared with those of unlicensed clubs. <BR /> <BR />The Committee questioned the sporting bodies in particular on the perception that clubs with licensed premises may have a competitive advantage over the hospitality sector. The sporting bodies, including Ulster Rugby, the GAA, the IFA, the NI Sports Forum and Sport NI, highlighted a number of points in response. Amongst other things, they pointed to the social and economic value that CASCs bring to their communities and made the argument that CASCs with licensed premises reinvest any profits in improving their facilities, which exist for community benefit. A notable point that arose from the evidence was that, of the 46 rugby clubs, only two or three do not have bars.”
“In response, departmental officials advised that the calculations were based on an estimate of the 70 to 80 clubs that currently qualify. <BR /> <BR />To inform the contribution of its members to today's debate, the Committee agreed to schedule oral briefings from a panel of the main amateur sporting bodies and umbrella groups as well as from applicable business sector representatives. Those briefings took place before the Christmas recess, and the discussions focused on the merits or otherwise of the Department's proposed approach in the regulations that CASCs with licences to sell alcohol would not be able to avail themselves of the enhanced relief — the additional 20% on sporting facilities — despite paying 100% rates on the bar area.”
“<BR /> <BR />We must continue to look for innovative measures to help to support and nurture businesses in our towns, which have, over recent years, been blighted by the economic downturn, as a result of which many businesses continue to struggle, as Members will be well aware. The provisions in clause 2 are, therefore, a very welcome development. <BR /> <BR />I move on to the enabling provision in clause 1. The Committee was advised that the Department will propose in its consultation on the regulations that the enhanced rate relief be limited to community amateur sports clubs (CASCs) that do not have liquor licences. In noting that the estimated cost of this enhanced relief would be in the region of £750,000, members sought to establish the number of clubs that would see this benefit.”
“<BR /> <BR />Although it was noted that all respondents were supportive of the proposals, it was pointed out that some concern was expressed by the ministerial advisory group, which felt that there should be stringent controls or safeguards to limit abuse or prevent an unfair competitive advantage. In response to Committee queries on that point, DFP advised that it was not minded to include such controls since the operation of the scheme would be as simple as possible, but safeguards could be built in through subordinate legislation. The Minister may, therefore, wish to pick up on that point later in today's debate.”
“A Cheann Comhairle, as I mentioned in my contribution to the previous debate, it may be useful to outline to Members the Committee's preliminary scrutiny of the principles of the Bill, in the context of supporting the Department's request for accelerated passage and to inform the contributions of Committee members to the debate. <BR /> <BR />I start by addressing the more straightforward of the two substantive clauses, which is clause 2. DFP wrote to the Committee in November 2014 regarding a targeted consultation. That followed a proposal put forward to disregard the commercial use of window displays in empty shops in determining rateable or chargeable occupation.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I was going to have a wee chat with Brian there later on, but I think that I will hold my whisht for now, Mervyn.”
“In view of that fact, the Committee agreed that, in advance of the Bill's being introduced to the Assembly, it would schedule oral briefings from panels of stakeholders, including representatives of the main amateur sporting bodies and applicable business-sector representatives on the proposals for enhanced relief for certain CASCs that will flow eventually from the Bill. I shall outline the findings from the evidence in the next debate. However, on behalf of the Committee, I wish to support the motion that the Bill be granted accelerated passage.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will not rehearse the detail of the Committee’s deliberations at this point, as that can be covered when we consider the principles of the Bill during the next debate. Suffice to say that the Committee decided that it would be supportive of the Minister’s proposal for the Bill to receive accelerated passage. <BR /> <BR />I should point out that the Committee was mindful that, if accelerated passage is granted by the Assembly, it will mean that the Committee will not have the opportunity to scrutinise some important issues during the normal Committee Stage.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I will not labour the debate any longer than is necessary; we have enough ahead of us today as it is. <BR /> <BR />The Department originally briefed the Committee on the Bill on 9 September and advised that it intended to seek accelerated passage. The Department also informed the Committee that it would consult publicly on the proposed regulations on enhanced rate relief for premises that are used solely for certain prescribed recreations that are to be made under clause 1. In evidence to the Committee on 17 November, the Minister at that time outlined the reasons for accelerated passage and the need for the changes to take effect. The Department also advised that it is minded to propose that the enhanced rate relief applies only to community amateur sports clubs that do not have liquor licences.”
“— and to put the message loud and clear to the Minister that these cuts are not acceptable and will have a direct impact on people's lives.”
“Thank you. I agree entirely with the Member. If you look at the towns here: Strabane; Dungannon; Downpatrick; Enniskillen; Portadown; Armagh; Newtownards; Omagh; Carrickfergus; Antrim and Coleraine, you will see that they all have excellent services in their own right. The Assembly has gone against Ministers before. On a previous occasion, the Assembly made it clear that the pension deal for local firefighters was not good enough. What we have on the table here, with a cut to the actual front-line service itself, is not good enough. I urge Members to support the motion and the SDLP amendment —”
“<BR /> <BR />As for the overall Health budget, everyone will be well aware that Health has over half of the entire Executive Budget, so what the Fire and Rescue Service is asking for is buttons in comparison with the entire Budget. The budget for the Fire and Rescue Service is small within the Health budget; therefore, this is not a big ask. <BR /> <BR />In closing, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle, the Assembly needs to send out —”
“There comes a point where you have to say that you cannot cut any deeper. There are services in which there is always fat to be cut, but cutting a service like this will lead to increased time getting to a road traffic accident or a fire in which someone may lose their life. With incidents like that, it comes down to seconds and minutes. The more resources it has, the better its chance of saving someone's life. <BR /> <BR />As a rural representative, I feel that this is even more critical and more important in rural areas. For nearly a decade, I have been calling for a new fire station in Ballycastle, and I know that my colleague Oliver McMullan has been doing the same for Cushendall. So the rural areas named in the research paper do not need to face any more cuts.”
“The Fire and Rescue Service sometimes, in my view, gets forgotten about, lying within the Department of Health, because, as the name suggests, the Department of Health is primarily about health, hospitals and front-line services for health. I think we need to remind the Minister that this is one of our most important services and that it needs resources. He needs to look at these figures for what they are, because it is quite clear that road accidents and the demands on the Fire and Rescue Service are increasing. Therefore, it actually needs more resources, not fewer. <BR /> <BR />The argument will always be put that there are different agencies and different Departments, and that we are all facing pressures from the Tory cuts; but the Fire and Rescue Service has felt the squeeze in each and every one of the last five years.”
“The Chair of the Health Committee has already referred to the fact that, in cooperation with the South, we do not have the same resources as other services in England, Scotland and Wales, which are surrounded by services with a similar capability. So we need to bear that in mind.”
“They have to deal with that and take it home at night, and the least that we can do is provide them with the resources that are needed to ensure that they can save as many lives as possible. <BR /> <BR />The Fire Service is a changing service, and we are not comparing like with like. I am always very critical of the notion that whatever happens with the equivalent services in England, Scotland and Wales, we just have to copy and paste it here. Quite clearly, that should not be the case here.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I will speak in favour of the motion and the SDLP amendment. I commend the proposer for bringing the motion to the Floor of the House. Indeed, I commend the good work of the Fire Brigades Union, which does an excellent job today and always did in keeping Members up to speed with the issues in the Fire Service. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the firefighters who are with us today to the Assembly. We owe them enormous gratitude; they provide a fantastic service. I could not do the job that they do, and I am not sure that any other Member could do what they do. They have seen their share of hell. The many road traffic collisions, the fatal accidents and the many incidents where people have been injured beyond imagination have already been referred to.”
“The Committee therefore agreed clause 51, subject to the changes in amendment Nos 11 and 12. <BR /> <BR />In closing, all the amendments tabled have been agreed by the Committee, and if supported by the House today will help to strike the right balance on the need for the new system to be proportionate and to command the confidence of the public. On a higher level, I believe that this scrutiny exercise will provide a further example of how local devolution, through collaborative work between the Committee, the Department and the wider Assembly, can work to deliver positively for our citizens. I close by thanking again the departmental officials and, indeed, both Ministers for the constructive way in which they approached this issue.”
“In so doing, I anticipate that, should the Department have any suggested operational improvements to the amendment, the Committee will be content to examine those at Further Consideration Stage, as long as the principle of undertaking an independent review is retained. <BR /> <BR />Finally, amendment Nos 11 and 12 arise from the advice that the Committee received from the Examiner of Statutory Rules. In reviewing the Bill and delegated powers memorandum, the Examiner made an observation on the appropriate Assembly procedure for orders under clause 51. The Committee wrote to DFP to highlight the Examiner’s view, and, in response, the Department confirmed that it would provide an amendment taking account of the issues highlighted. I place on the record the Committee’s appreciation to the Examiner for his advice on this technical issue.”
“The Committee firmly believes that a fully independent review will provide vitally important assurance to the public. It will provide the professional bodies, along with the oversight commissioner, with the opportunity for input. Moreover, in concentrating minds following commencement of the legislation, it will act as a stimulus for successful implementation. As highlighted in the Committee’s report, successful implementation of the legislation will help to prove the arguments against root-and-branch reform here. Given the case outlined, I call for the support of Members when we take the decision later on amendment No 10.”
“The Committee’s amendment, however, guarantees that that will take place by putting it on a statutory footing. <BR /> <BR />The case for amendment No 10 is also underpinned in the evidence to the Committee. In her submission, Dr Hosier argued that the Bill represents a "missed opportunity" and that it fails to reflect growing consensus in the global academic community that self-regulation of the legal profession is an inherently flawed model. The Justice Committee commented that the proposed new system should offer the opportunity to:”
“<BR /> <BR />I consider that the Committee’s amendment will provide an opportunity to undertake a meaningful review to take stock of how the new system is operating and to establish the extent to which the projected features and benefits are being delivered. That is particularly important, given that the Bill is not adopting the root-and-branch reform that has occurred in other jurisdictions. The Committee’s amendment is a sensible approach. It is sensible to review this legislation and to make improvements where they are identified. Whilst it can be argued that resources would be used in appointing an independent person, it can be equally argued that, in any event, good practice demands that the Department undertakes a post-legislative review.”
“Whilst noting the Department’s position on the proposal, the Committee highlighted in its report that clause 4 does not provide for a fully independent review, particularly because the oversight commissioner will be a participant in the new system. While the oversight commissioner could undoubtedly provide valuable input to the review, surely any critical assessment would also need to examine the role played by the commissioner himself or herself. On the Department’s argument about bedding in, I believe that it is important to highlight the fact that the Committee’s amendment will provide flexibility over when the appointed person completes this one-off review.”
“While the Committee was unable to convince the Department to take forward this proposal, members were firmly of the view that it is required. DFP indicated that it was not minded to include a statutory time-bound requirement for a review, as the Minister referred to, arguing that it would be difficult to predetermine a juncture to undertake the review since there would be an element of bedding in for the new requirements. The Department also argued that clause 4 empowers DFP to refer any matters to the Oversight Commissioner for review and, if necessary, to be reported.”
“The aim of amendment No 10 is simple: to place a requirement upon the Department to appoint an independent person within three years after the commencement of the legislation to review and report on its implementation.”
“The Committee therefore agreed that it was content with clause 19 subject to the change in amendment No 4, and with clause 38 subject to the change in amendment No 9. <BR /> <BR />A LeasCheann Comhairle, I will now turn to amendment No 10, which the Committee agreed unanimously to table. In my opening comments I highlighted the fact that the Committee and Department worked collaboratively to strengthen and improve the Bill. DFP's responsiveness to the Committee's scrutiny and input has been very much welcomed. The 13 amendments tabled by the Department address issues identified during that engagement, and the Committee is clearly supportive of all of them.”
“Dr Hosier usefully suggested an amendment to address that conflict, which the Department subsequently agreed to bring forward. The Committee agreed that it was content with clauses 17 and 36 subject to the changes in amendment Nos 3 and 8 respectively. <BR /> <BR />On amendment Nos 4 and 9, the Law Society highlighted a concern with clause 19 and corresponding clause 38, which make provision for the applicable complaints committee to direct that the legal practitioner issues an apology to the complainant. The Law Society suggested that the Bill be amended to remove the ability of such apologies to be used as evidence of liability in civil proceedings. The Committee pursued the issue with the Department, which confirmed that it was content to bring forward the necessary amendments.”
“That would suggest that a case could be dismissed by the applicable complaints committees as being without merit, when the merit was not considered. The Committee's view was supported by Dr Hosier, who in her written evidence stated that:”
“At its meeting on 11 November, members sought clarification from DFP on whether privilege would extend in circumstances of bad faith or gross incompetence. A possible solution was noted in the Scottish legislation. In response, the Department agreed to consider an amendment to address the issue identified, and the Committee considered the draft amendment provided by the Department and agreed that it was content with clause 8 subject to that amendment. <BR /> <BR />A LeasCheann Comhairle, I turn to amendment Nos 3 and 8. In scrutinising the Bill, the Committee identified a conflict in meaning within clauses 17 and 36. Those clauses make provision that a complaint, in whole or part, can be dismissed without consideration of its merits.”
“In terms of amendment No 2 relating to clause 8, in its response to the Committee's call for evidence, the Law Society stated that it considered this clause to be:”