Michelle O'Neill
Mid Ulster · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“We are shocked and deeply saddened for both the victim of the horrific incident in north Belfast and the people who have been impacted on by the disorder that we have witnessed since. There is absolutely no justification for racism, violence or intimidation.”
“It is the latest chapter in a political psychodrama. It has been playing out in Westminster for forever and a day but particularly over the past 10 years. Tomorrow is the 10th anniversary of Brexit, which inflicted so much damage to the wider economy. We are now on the verge of having a seventh British Prime Minister in 10 years.”
“We cannot look at things in isolation. Whether it is the refugee integration strategy, the framework or the legislation, all those things need to move together and at pace.”
“I agree with the Member about the ugly language that was used to describe some people in our community. Like the Member, I have met many people from the black and ethnic minority community in recent times. I do that on an ongoing basis, but I did so recently given what happened over the last number of weeks.”
“There is not just one answer to it, as the Member knows. We need to come at it from every angle. That could be a policing response initially, for which additional funding was secured. I agree that this is the third year in a row in which we have had that type of racist behaviour on our streets. Likewise, I would describe it as a pogrom.”
“Building on that progress, the Executive Office is contributing £3·3 million towards the Derry on the North Atlantic Museum, which is due to open in 2027 and will further enhance Ebrington’s role as a heritage and tourism destination. <BR /> <BR />Ebrington is also continuing to develop as a vibrant events space.”
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“Yes, I absolutely do, and much more needs to be done to end the cycle of violence against women and girls. That is at the heart of the strategy that we are developing. We need to see enhanced collaboration and partnership working across all Departments and public bodies, working with Women's Aid and all the other excellent community-based organisations that are on the ground and at the coalface. That will be a critical first step in setting us on the right direction, with the right interventions and support at the right time for the women who need it.”
“I thank the Member for raising that matter. As always in such cases, first and foremost, our thoughts are with Katie's family, who must be heartbroken and devastated to have lost their daughter and sister. I absolutely agree with the Member that that is why we have to get to grips with tackling violence against women and girls. We are committed to prioritising the bringing forward of that strategy, and excellent work has been done on it to this point. We have to break the cycle of violence, and that is the job not just of women but of wider society. That is the outcome that, I believe, everybody in the House wants to achieve, working together.”
“We are all committed to good relations and to lifting up everybody in society. Given the complexity of our past, when we look to today and to the future, prosperity should be the thing that unites us all. We need to allow everybody to prosper. That is what I and the deputy First Minister are determined to do: to build around that prosperity agenda. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that, as a result of Wednesday's legislation coming into effect, the victims and survivors and their families will feel the brunt of it. That is unfair. It will burden today's generation with carrying on that battle, and that is completely unfair as well. We will all continue to say with one voice that the legislation should be repealed; it should be absolutely stripped back.”
“It is harrowing, and the last number of weeks, with the inquests that have come forward, have been a bruising time for so many families. That highlights and underlines why the legislation is absolutely not good enough and is unacceptable and should be binned.”
“I assure the Member — we have shown it to date — that, when it came to finding efficiencies in the Department, we did not touch that area and were able to protect that funding. That remains our position. The Member is absolutely right: when the legislation comes into effect on Wednesday of this week, it effectively closes the door on all those who are seeking truth and justice. It is the collective will of all parties in the Chamber that this horrific legislation should be repealed immediately. <BR /> <BR />Back in 2015, with the Stormont House Agreement, we had a way in which to deal with the past, and I still commend that approach today. What the British Government are doing, however, by shutting the door firmly on access to justice and the courts is totally unacceptable.”
“No, I did not say that. To be clear, I agree with you: it cannot be for just the payment itself; it has to be for the services and the wrap-around support. That needs to be absolutely factored into the contributions. I can envisage no situation where, if a payment came forward, it would be given back to the institution.”
“I am satisfied that the framework that is being developed is the fairest way to advance these conversations, so I am satisfied that Paul Sweeney, who heads up the work on our behalf, is challenging, pushing back and thoroughly investigating the contributions of the institutions. However, we are not at the end of the road yet; even the payments that have come forward are only partial payments. There is more to come, and we need to continue to ensure that the institutions pay up, because the costs are so large. It is the right thing to do, of course, but it is important that the institutions pay up. It is hard to judge the sufficiency or otherwise of them until we get to the final picture.”
“It is important that we continue to fight and let the public know that we will continue to fight for a proper funding model to allow us to do those things much better.”
“The Executive are committed to transformation. We know that we can transform things, and we know that we can do things better. We will always be stronger at doing those things when we work in partnership and provide the leadership that is required. That is the case in health and education and across all of our public services. We know that, when it comes to the health service, for example, we need to transform that service and get to the point at which we are talking about people's outcomes, how they can live longer and how they can be treated better. When it comes to education, we need to ensure that every child is valued in the education system, particularly the children with additional needs.”
“We need to transform things, and we need to do things better. We know all of that, but we need the right resources with which to do that, and we need the money to invest in public services. I am absolutely determined, as are, I think, the Executive, to, with a collective voice, continue in that conversation with the Treasury.”
“I thank the Member for that question. As he knows, that has been the number-one issue for the Executive. We acknowledged from day one that the funding that was on the table was never going to be enough and that we needed to get to a point where we had a sustainable budget situation and were in a much better fiscal environment. We have just come through a very tight Budget, and there are difficult choices for Ministers to make, but it is important that we continue the ongoing discussion on the fiscal framework with the Treasury. Our officials and our Finance Minister continue to work at political and official level on the application of the needs-based adjustment factor in our financial package, so that we get to the point where we have a proper funding model in place. We have work to do as an Executive.”
“Yes. I do not think that we can pick and choose across the institutions. It is really important that we respect all parts of the Good Friday Agreement and all institutions of the Good Friday Agreement, so I recognise the importance of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. I repeat the point: we are all better served when all the institutions are working better. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the Member's comment about the gravest human rights violation of our time that we are witnessing unfolding in Palestine. We have to use all the forums and platforms that are open to us to call for an end to the genocide, for an immediate ceasefire, for aid to be delivered and for the hostages to be released. It is important that, collectively, we make as much noise on that as we can.”
“I am certainly committed to making progress and continuing to work together on all those bases, because, when we collectively work through all the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement and are faithful to that agreement, we can continue to build a better future and give the people the support that they elect us to deliver for them.”
“Yes, and that builds on the previous question. The North/South Ministerial Council, which I will make a statement to the Assembly about tomorrow and give feedback on, is an important part of the jigsaw of the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement. It is important that all elements of that agreement are up and running and working again. I am glad that we have sectoral meetings happening again, because our people are best served when all institutions of the Good Friday Agreement are delivering on both a North/South and an east-west basis. It is important that all those sets of relationships are respected and worked on.”
“Given the issues that have arisen over the last couple of days, officials now need to get to grips with the matter. We have tasked our officials to engage with counterparts in Dublin and London to get more information on the issues that have been raised, because it is important that solutions are found when problems are identified.”
“Let me be clear: I have no truck with the hard right, as the Member well knows. I absolutely support a migration policy and system that is fair, efficient, enforceable and compassionate. We must do everything to make sure that anything that is done is human-rights-compliant. That should be the underlying factor in everything that we do. Of course, we have a unique circumstance on our island because of partition, and that must be respected, but we also enjoy the free movement of people across our islands. <BR /> <BR />To make a more political point as opposed to a point from an Executive Office point of view, Ireland cannot become a casualty of the horrific Rwanda legislation that the Tories have decided to railroad through. I am clear about that. It is a disgraceful policy that serves the needs of nobody.”
“It is really important that we respect all sets of relationships across our two islands and that we work on the basis of being good neighbours. Obviously, when it comes to the constitutional position, what I want to achieve and what the deputy First Minister wants to achieve are different things, but that is OK. We can work together in the Executive whilst pursuing our political aspirations for the future of the place that we all call "Home".”
“With your permission, Mr Speaker, junior Minister Reilly will answer the question.”
“I have set out the complexities. It is important that we, as a society that has come from conflict, do everything that we can to support victims, survivors and people who have been impacted on by conflict. The category of people that you refer to is not currently under the remit of the scheme, but I take on board what the Member said.”
“Thank you. It is something that we are looking at. We are very aware of the issues affecting bereaved victims and survivors. We are very keen to address their needs and to acknowledge the ongoing loss felt by many. Our Department has, for many years, been funding the Victims and Survivors Service (VSS) to provide financial support to bereaved victims and survivors. I am pleased that, in April 2021, we were able to reopen the scheme for new people to come forward so that all bereaved victims can avail themselves of the support. Since the self-directed support scheme opened in 2017, our Department has provided over £13·5 million in funding to the VSS to support bereaved victims and survivors. We continue to keep under review the support that we are able to provide.”
“Sorry. I did not hear the end of your question.”
“That will be an ongoing piece of work for us.”
“Funding for the victims' payments scheme continues to be an area of significant concern for the Executive. We are aware that the Finance Minister, Dr Caoimhe Archibald, is engaged in a formal dispute process with the Treasury in London. The issue was noted in the Executive's letter to the Prime Minister and discussed at length with the Secretary of State when we met him on 18 April. It is our view that the British Government must contribute to the scheme's costs. It has always been, and remains, the Executive's position that the scheme, which was designed and legislated for by the British Government, goes further than what was originally intended by the Executive and what was set out in the Stormont House Agreement and that not enough consideration was given to the potential impact on the Executive's Budget.”
“We will write to him if anything is identified, but I assume that, given the ongoing review of how we are doing things, how the payments are being made and how the processes work, that would be flagged as an issue. If we find out anything in particular, however, I am happy to write to the Member.”
“As I said, there are a number of complexities built into the system for gathering information and doing the due diligence work, but each application is unique and brings with it its own set of complexities. For example, another added complication is that one in three applications includes multiple relevant incidents, with up to 50 incidents listed in one application. That demonstrates the challenges. As I said, the historical nature of much of the evidence is also a challenge, as record-keeping then was not the same as it is today. I am not aware of any particular underlying thematic issue, but I will enquire, since the Member has asked me that question.”
“We have also suggested that the extension should align with the closing date of the scheme, which is currently 31 August 2026, because that would allow more time for eligible applicants to avail themselves of the backdated payments.”
“The historical nature of much of the evidence, when record-keeping may not have been to the same standard as it is today, also means that evidence gathering can, at times, be challenging. The Victims' Payments Board has processes in place with a range of partners to assist in retrieving that evidence on behalf of applicants. <BR /> <BR />I reassure everyone that officials are working closely with all organisations that support victims and survivors to keep the scheme under review and to look for ways in which to improve the throughput of cases. The deputy First Minister and I have also written to the Secretary of State to support the extension of the backdating deadline, which is currently 31 August of this year.”
“I acknowledge the importance of the victims' payments scheme to victims and survivors. It recognises the suffering of those who have a permanent disablement as a result of the conflict and provides the financial support that they need to help them move forward with their lives. As of the week commencing 22 April, almost 7,500 applications had been submitted to the scheme, with just over 1,300 determinations made by the Victims' Payments Board. To date, more than £39·6 million has been made in payments to applicants. We appreciate that there are some concerns about the length of time that it can take to process an application. That is because each application is unique and has its own complexities, and the Victims' Payments Board must consider each application on its merits in order to provide the best outcomes for applicants.”
“There is no substitute for a commissioner, as a key advocate for victims and survivors, being in post, so I am very hopeful that the recruitment process will launch as soon as possible.”
“As a body corporate, the commission continues to be in legal existence in the absence of a commissioner. In the current context, the chief executive officer is responsible for the day-to-day business of the commission. The commission continues to operate on the basis of the work programme that was agreed by the previous commissioner. It focuses on three broad areas of strategic development: advocacy, history and education, and young people. The commission also continues to play a key role in important areas such as the design of the new draft strategy for victims and survivors, development of the regional trauma network and delivery of the victims' payment scheme.”
“As the deputy First Minister has emphasised in the Chamber previously, ensuring that victims and survivors have a strong, independent voice remains a key priority for the Executive. The appointment of a new Commissioner for Victims and Survivors is essential to inform the development of policies and to help ensure that the longer-term needs of victims and survivors are addressed. We are reviewing the appointment plan for the recruitment competition to appoint a new commissioner, and the competition will be launched as soon as possible. The appointment process is regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments, and we estimate that it will take approximately six months to complete.”
“No doubt there are perhaps areas where there are sensitivities and where things are not always agreed. We should always strive to do better on the engagement piece. When we look at the policy proposals, we will keep the issue of having an advocate under review.”
“It is important that victims and survivors hear directly from the deputy First Minister and me about the policy proposals that we want to take forward. Engagement has happened in a number of ways up to this point. In keeping with the recommendations of the report, TEO officials have worked closely with victims and survivors to progress implementation and to ensure accountability. It is also really important that the voices of birth mothers, adopted adults and their family members are central to that. <BR /> <BR />TEO officials have also met victims and survivors and their family representatives at monthly consultation forum meetings on 29 occasions since the truth recovery programme was established. About 20 people attend those meetings each month, so there is a good level of engagement.”
“Clearly, what we have received to date was for what had gone before, but, when we introduce the new legislation, we will need additional contributions from the institutions, including from those that have already announced their contributions relating to this phase.”
“The engagement has been going on for quite some time, as many Members have indicated. It is so important to do it in an ongoing way. It is happening across a number of areas. We had the initial engagement with the institutions, and our officials wrote to the relevant institutions and offered a briefing across the whole truth recovery programme ahead of the consultation. A number of institutions have taken us up on that and participated in some of those discussions. In addition to the institutional engagement, engagement with Public Record Office of Northern Ireland and the independent panel has happened. <BR /> <BR />To date, no negotiations have been undertaken with the institutions on financial contributions, because we need to get to the point of having the policy agreed before we can talk to them about their contributions.”
“What many of those women experienced and endured in those institutions is probably beyond the comprehension of many of us. Our intention is that a consultation on the key policy issues relating to a public inquiry be launched as soon as possible. The consultation will also be an opportunity, as the Member said, for victims and survivors to have their voice heard, particularly on the key policy issues that we are going to legislate for. Following the consultation, we will be in a position to finalise the draft legislation. I look forward to bringing the legislation to the Executive and introducing it in the Assembly as soon as possible. Both the deputy First Minister and I are absolutely keen to meet the women mentioned by the Member when we have the policy proposals to take them through.”
“I absolutely agree that, as I said in the previous answer, women who were in mother-and-baby institutions, Magdalene laundries or the workhouses have all waited for far too long for truth, justice and acknowledgement.”
“The deputy First Minister and I have met our officials on this issue. Both of us have made it very clear that our priority is to get the legislation through the Executive and into the Assembly for discussion, debate and voting through. It is important that we continue to work with the victims and survivors to take them through that process. We are hopeful that we can move at pace. We have met our officials in the past week or so, and we hope to have a paper back on our desk with proposals for the time frame. We will, of course, engage with the Committee and you, as Chair, about the process that we will take forward. The legislative process will come forward in the months ahead.”
“We have been unwavering in our commitment to implement the five key recommendations in the truth recovery design panel's report on 'Mother and Baby Institutions, Magdalene laundries and Workhouses'. That includes the commitment to an integrated truth investigation and related public inquiry. The first stage of the investigation has already begun, with the appointment of a non-statutory independent panel in April 2023. Key services are now in place to support victims and survivors through the testimony process. It is our intention to launch a public consultation on issues relating to the statutory public inquiry and the redress scheme as quickly as possible, following which we will finalise the draft legislation for Executive agreement, prior to its introduction to the Assembly.”
“People will be able to judge, on the basis of the contributions that will be laid out for everybody to see, how appropriately the institutions have responded.”
“I cannot put a monetary value on what is being sought from each institution, the reason being that the negotiations in live play. They are ongoing and sensitive. They are each at different stages of what we have been able to establish from the data and the finances, so it is important that we give space to the negotiations and that we encourage the constructive manner in which they have been held. At this stage, it is not appropriate to announce the amounts that we have been able to achieve from the two that have come forward, but that will all become transparent in time. At this stage, we should not speculate about how much we might be able to receive in full. Suffice it to say that we will publish that information as soon as the negotiations have concluded.”
“As I outlined in a previous answer, the process involved looking at all the data sets and the information that we had, the institutions disclosing their financial circumstances and our officials doing due diligence on what we understand to be the assets of some of those organisations. At this stage, our approach has been the right one. We are trying to get to the point at which there is an agreed contribution that is based on all the data that we have garnered. However, if we hit or a wall or have challenges with some of those institutions stepping forward, we will, as I said previously, look at the other options that are open to us. To this point, it has not delayed any of the compensation that we have been able to pay, but we need to recoup that money. Those institutions must pay for what they did.”
“I hope that we can progress that in the weeks and months ahead.”
“Yes, it has taken far too long to get to this point. We are making progress, but, clearly, we have more to do. We have to keep all options on the table. For now, the approach has been constructive and has been built around the framework that Paul Sweeney developed. Everybody understands it. I have just run through the kinds of areas that are examined as part of that work. It is important that we keep all options open, but I encourage all the institutions that are found guilty of systemic failings of the victims and survivors to step forward and do the right thing. I would like to think that they would. That is obviously the optimum approach for the victims and survivors. Until this point, a lot of the conversations have been constructive. Two organisations have stepped forward, and the others need to do likewise.”
“The negotiations will not stop at the closure of the redress scheme in April next year. It could take a further 12 to 18 months to finalise the remaining contributions for the institutions after the closure of the scheme. That will depend on how many applications the board receives in the last year, how quickly they can be determined and whether there are any legal challenges to the scheme in that period that could delay matters.”
“As the Member appreciates, these are obviously very sensitive and detailed negotiations that need some space and time to continue in a constructive manner. The discussions, however, are also important to many victims, as they want to see the institutions make those financial contributions to the redress scheme, as I said. To date, the negotiations have involved the production and scrutiny of accurate individual data sets for each institution. There has been consideration of complex determinations where a victim or survivor may have been resident in multiple institutions. There has been consideration on the basis of the Hart report and the independent facilitator's framework of each institution's ability to pay and of any payments or any other outlay that the institutions may wish to be taken into account. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right.”
“Yes, absolutely, and that is why it is important that we have the framework in place and that Paul Sweeney continues with the work that he has commenced. We now have those two contributions secured, and it is important that each of the other institutions step forward and pay their contribution. As I said, this is an important part of what victims and survivors expect. It is part of the healing process and is about the institutions doing the right thing and stepping forward. We will be very happy to keep the Member and the House updated on any progress that we make in the area.”
“<BR /> <BR />Engagement is ongoing with the other four institutions on appropriate contributions to the cost of redress and specialist support services. We will continue our discussions with the Good Shepherd Sisters and Barnardo's on a final payment following the closure of the redress scheme. The value of the total contributions will not be known until all applications that are made to the HIA Redress Board by the closing date of 2 April next year, 2025, have been determined. We encourage all victims and survivors who intend to make an application to the board to do so as soon as possible and definitely in advance of next year's deadline.”
“I am pleased to confirm that we have agreed contributions towards the cost of the redress scheme from two of the institutions, based on compensation paid to date. A payment has been received from the Good Shepherd Sisters, and our officials are engaging with Barnardo's on its payment, which we expect imminently. We are grateful to both institutions for their constructive engagement on the matter. We have listened to the victims and survivors, and we know that, for many, financial contributions from institutions are an important matter of accountability. The independent facilitator, Mr Paul Sweeney, also engaged with victims and survivors in the development of a framework for reaching agreement. That framework has formed the basis of the ongoing negotiations.”
“With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, junior Minister Reilly will take the question.”