David McIlveen
North Antrim · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the member for her answer. I completely appreciate that, when we are dealing with personnel, there should be confidentiality. However, in a general sense, will the member assure me and the House that there has been even-handedness in the way in which the matter has been dealt with and that original thought in social media and the…”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. I am very glad that the last question that I asked in this mandate — of her anyway — delivered some good news. There had been some concerns about the fact that, historically, there was at times a backlog in processing blue badge applications. A lot of time was involved in getting them processed.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. He is aware that the news that the good people of east Belfast had to come to terms with last week is something that my constituents in North Antrim have had to face up to on at least three occasions recently, with the closure of Patton's and the announcements by JTI and Michelin.”
“I thank the First Minister for her answers so far. The Minister will also be aware that another central component of the Delivering Social Change initiative was the nurture unit programme. Can the Minister give us an indication of the impact so far of the nurture unit programme?”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will try my very best. As we come to the dawning of the age of the Department for Employment and Learning, there is obviously an opportunity for reflection. Whilst the Minister has been very good at delivering initiatives, some may say that he has not been so successful at delivering reform.”
“I sincerely hope that narrow political points of view will be set aside when it comes to the debate and the vote because I genuinely and sincerely believe that if one Member — even if it is just one — decides to vote against these changes, they will be on the wrong side of public opinion.”
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“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Bill at this stage. I will try to speak briefly. Like others, I want to congratulate the sponsor. A tremendous amount of effort goes into drafting, formulating and consulting on a Bill. There is also a lot of pressure and stress when you find yourself on the other side of the Committee table. Therefore, I want to commend Mrs Dobson on her work. I note that it is obviously inspired by personal circumstances as well. I know that she has been a very effective lobbyist on the issue, and I commend her on that as well. <BR /> <BR />I want to start by saying that I am on the donor list. I have been for over 10 years, I think. Admittedly, my organs may not be as healthy as those of some of my colleagues.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree, in relation to the interesting debate that has broken out on the Back Benches, that this is not an issue of tinkering around the edges? An amendment will not fundamentally fix the issue. Presumed or deemed consent is one of the foundation stones of the Bill. Therefore, suggesting that it can be tinkered with around the edges is an argument that would be difficult to stand over for those of us who have concerns.”
“You have to deal with it aggressively. You have to deal with it in the right way. We have to be very careful, Mr Speaker. This is not a war on Islam or on any religion, but this is and should be a war on terrorism and on the very people who threaten the liberty of the people of France and on the people who threaten the freedom of the people of Europe and the Western World. I urge our Government in Westminster to step up to the mark now and rally behind those countries that are taking a forward-thinking approach to dealing with this blight of terrorism that we find in our country at this time.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the founding principles of France was the principle of liberty and of freedom. This was an attack on freedom. It was an attack on those of us who believe in the right of each individual country and each individual people to determine their own direction of travel. It was a grotesque attack on that principle. The rise of Islamic terrorism throughout the world has spread like a cancer. There have been attacks throughout many cities in many places — everywhere from New York to Jerusalem to Paris to Beirut. We have seen it in London, and we have seen it right across many major cities in the world. <BR /> <BR />I find myself agreeing with what a number of colleagues have expressed today. With cancer in a physical sense, you do not talk to cancer. You do not persuade cancer to leave a person's body.”
“I, too, offer our sincere sympathies to the people of Paris today, who no doubt find themselves still under an immense shadow of darkness over the events that unfolded over the weekend. I remember that, on 26 June last year, I had the opportunity to go to a concert in the Bataclan, and it was a place of happiness and celebration. It was a place where people of all different creeds, colours and races gathered together to enjoy an event. For those who have not been in the venue, it is comparable in size and layout to the Ulster Hall in Belfast and has limited points of exit. To think of those cowardly, grotesque, inhumane people coming into the building and opening fire indiscriminately while the poor people who were contained therein had really no easy means of escape is just horrific beyond any description or explanation.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I am sure that he will agree with me that that was excellent news for the economy of north Antrim. However, he will be aware that, unfortunately, it was a case of the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, given the devastating announcement just some weeks later of the job losses at Michelin. Is the Minister willing to meet me, along with stakeholders in the Ballymena and north Antrim area, to discuss a strategy to bring more much needed jobs into the area?”
“The Minister will be aware that, even in the darkest days of this Province, Ballymena was recognised as a private sector powerhouse owing to its high level of private industry. There is a real, genuine fear in the area that that reputation is slowly but surely starting to slip away. Does the Minister agree with me that a task force should be set up as soon as possible, with all the relevant stakeholders, to ensure that Ballymena's reputation as an economic powerhouse for the private sector is not further damaged?”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Does the Minister have any intention to mitigate the reduction in places at Cambridge House to the advantage of Slemish College, where there is a huge demand and parental preference is very clear?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. The Minister may be relieved to know that I am not going down the road of academic selection with this question. In my constituency, which includes Ballymena, parental preference, as he puts it, was that fewer places would be required for Cambridge House Grammar School, which I know the Minister approved. However, that has not been the case with Slemish College, which has consistently found itself oversubscribed. There clearly is an appetite amongst parents to move towards that.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer and welcome and share her congratulations for the Northern Ireland football team. <BR /> <BR />The Minister will probably not be aware that I was three years old when Northern Ireland last qualified for a major tournament. I am sure that she would agree with me that the place that Northern Ireland football now finds itself is of epic proportions. Does the Minister feel, though, as we move into this new dispensation of football success that there is a real opportunity for us to grasp the beauty of true Northern Ireland identity? Will the Minister's Department be encouraging all our community to rally around the identity of being uniquely and wonderfully from Northern Ireland?”
“Does the Acting First Minister intend to take a look at this? Does she feel that there are any actions that can be taken to address it?”
“I thank the Acting First Minister for her answers so far. I am sure that the Acting First Minister will be aware that, already, there has been some criticism from the childcare sector, particularly around the issue of regulation, which, at times, does appear to be quite confusing.”
“I will quote Mark Twain in finishing and say that doing the right thing:”
“What people do not care about is who funds it. That is why I believe that the work that has been done — the Dalriada pathfinder document — is worthy of consideration. It takes a lot of the financial responsibility away from the trust and the Department and brings in other stakeholders that also have a vested interest in this. I think it is right. We all regularly talk in this place about cross-departmental thinking and how we can do things differently, and this document undoubtedly provides a way in which to do that, so it is right to consider it. Dalriada should be considered as a pilot for this project. <BR /> <BR />I know, having worked closely with him in his days in the Department of Finance, that the Minister loves to quote people. He has quoted everybody from Gandhi to John Lennon.”
“Secondly, they care about a good level of care, and, as I have mentioned, there have been occasions where, unfortunately, alternative care arrangements outside of Dalriada have been found wanting. I know that that is something that the Minister and the trust will want to ensure does not happen in the future. Thirdly, I think that people care about a secure future for the Dalraida, because this crisis management approach, year to year, with the fear or the threat of partial or full closure, is something that drains the life out of people. It drains their energy, and that constant feeling of a threat upon it is something that I believe people care deeply about and want to see something done about.”
“The look on his face as 200 supporters bounded towards his car, led by Ian Paisley, was a look of terror that I will never forget. I hope that that in some way helped to convince Jim Wells that keeping the Dalriada open was important. <BR /> <BR />So the Minister worked hard, and the MPs and MLAs have worked hard. Why did we do that? I think that it is very simple. There are two categories, as far as the people in this area are concerned. There are things that people care about, and there are things that people do not care about in this area. What they care about is the Dalriada continuing to deliver good outcomes for patients. That is absolutely head and shoulders the outcome that is required for people living in the area.”
“There have been patients who, for various reasons, have not been able to have, for example, respite in the Dalriada Hospital and who have gone to other places. Unfortunately, the level of care on every other occasion has been found wanting in the private sector. Therefore, I can understand why the community has worked so hard to try to come up with an alternative to keep the Dalriada Hospital functioning in whatever capacity it possibly can. <BR /> <BR />The Minister also worked hard, and the current Minister's predecessor did visit the hospital during the campaign. I think that it was one of the most amusing things that I have seen, as Minister Wells attempted to inconspicuously leave the premises through a side door as he had another engagement to go to.”
“I certainly welcome the opportunity to speak on this matter. It is something that I think is close to the hearts of not just the people of North Antrim but the people of other constituencies. We can see from the other constituencies represented in the debate that it has certainly had an impact on many, many people. <BR /> <BR />The sense of community involvement from this campaign has been astonishing, and I think that it has shown just how much this place means to the people in the area. As Robin Swann has just said, it is not just about a building. I think that an over-sentimentality with buildings sometimes exists, particularly hospitals, where there have been births and good memories that have come from those buildings. This is absolutely not about that. It is about a unique service that other people have tried to replicate.”
“I also thank the Minister for his statement this afternoon. He said that some discussions took place on the misuse of alcohol in our society. Will he confirm that the issue of minimum unit pricing is still being viewed as a viable means to deal with that problem?”
“Whether it is a terrorist attack in Sousse, New York, London, La Mon, Loughinisland or Omagh, it does not matter to me. Terrorism is terrorism, and it must be condemned on every possible occasion. The House must send out a message that that type of barbaric activity, regardless of whether it is on our shores or within the shores of other lands, should be condemned wholeheartedly and outrightly. My thoughts and prayers are with the families in the United Kingdom and across the border in the Republic who are bearing unmeasurable grief at time. I hope and pray that the vast majority of the thoughts of people in the House are with them.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is a twisted, disgusting, barbaric ideology. It is often said at these times that it should not be reflected upon the vast majority of good people who live in the area, and I have to echo that today. I was received with nothing but courtesy and hospitality when I visited Tunisia. I think particularly of a young man called Tariq, who, despite putting his personal safety on the line, continues to try to mobilise the student movement to encourage all young people that violence is not a legitimate form of political protest. Therefore, I condemn it wholeheartedly and welcome the Member bringing it to the Floor today. <BR /> <BR />I think that we have to be in no doubt and be unequivocal in our condemnation of those acts over the weekend.”
“I do not know whether saying that I welcome the opportunity to speak is the correct form of words today. I am sure that the events that unfolded last week filled everyone with horror, in the Chamber and outside it. I had the immense privilege, towards the end of last year, of being part of a delegation to Tunis. We met a number of senior political figures, including the president, and it was an eye-opening experience. It was very clear that there were serious concerns in the country that an attack such as this was almost inevitable. Last year, although Tunisia is one of the more secular Islamic states in the region, it exported over 2,000 young people to ISIS. That certainly caused the vast majority of right-thinking people in the area huge concern as it started to become clear what the ramifications could be.”
“I, too, would like to welcome my friend to her role as junior Minister. To the best of my knowledge we are not related, but it is still very encouraging to see a McIlveen on the Front Bench. I will always say "Hear, hear" to that. <BR /> <BR />The junior Minister mentioned concerns about the current draft of the Bill. Will she go into a little more detail on her specific concerns?”
“I, too, thank the deputy First Minister for his statement. Deputy First Minister, of the projects in this list, some are aspirational, some have commenced, and all have a degree of cost attached to them. On the basis that the Assembly continues to haemorrhage over £10 million a month due to the failure to implement welfare reform, did the Ministers of the Irish Republic offer to pay for these projects?”
“Therefore, when human rights legislation has been used in such an erroneous way, and when a new Government come in and start to look at how it can be better and how trust can be regained in the human rights agenda, it is entirely unreasonable for people who have been using it as a weapon then to cry foul. Of course, on that basis, people are starting to look at the human rights legislation and say that something has to change because, in many cases, it has been used as a weapon to beat people. As Mr McCausland said this morning, when people have failed in their political objectives, they seek to railroad their opinion on other people through other objectives and in an undemocratic way. That is why we oppose the motion.”
“It is highly irresponsible to claim that human rights legislation and the equalities that are supposedly flowing from that should be used as a Trojan Horse to grind people down. That is a misuse of a particular piece of legislation. <BR /> <BR />When, under human rights legislation, a business in this country is taken to court, challenged and loses for failing to promote something that is not even legal in this jurisdiction, we have a serious problem. Human rights legislation is being used adversely and as a weapon against people. As Mr Elliott mentioned, on the issue of parading, human rights legislation has been used to trample down the human rights of other people, particularly in the community that I predominantly represent.”
“I really am running a bit low on time. There are more cases now being brought to the European Court of Human Rights than when the Bill was introduced. That is the point that I am trying to make. That is why Westminster is now looking at this issue and saying that something has to change. <BR /> <BR />I support my colleague's contribution today, and we will be voting against this motion. Why are some Members concerned about how the existing Human Rights Act has been used? Why is there a suspicion in some sections of this House that the Human Rights Act and the legislation that has flowed from it have caused problems and are something that we should be concerned about? I think that the people who have been advocating on behalf of the Human Rights Act have a responsibility too.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. In my view, it has failed in what it was ultimately set up to do, which was to try to ensure that fewer cases went to Strasbourg and that more were handled within the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom. That is not the case because there are more cases now being handled by the European Court of Human Rights.”
“We all know that the Act was brought in in 1998 by a massive majority Government in the United Kingdom that wanted to try to ensure that fewer cases were brought directly to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg and to try to deal with issues internally before it got to that stage. Whilst I am broadly supportive of that principle, this Act has failed to do that. The people who are arguing against any sort of a change in the Human Rights Act are, in my view, afraid. All that they are doing is admitting their fear of change and of making a piece of legislation that has not worked better. That is what this debate is ultimately about; it is what the debate at Westminster is about. It is about how we can make the human rights protections for people in the United Kingdom better. That is at the core of this argument.”
“All that we have to do is look west to the United States to see how destabilising to a national Government a written constitution can be. We have seen in recent days in the United States how they are sometimes tying themselves in knots over constitutional issues. I am glad that our forefathers in the United Kingdom established a system of government that is agile, flexible and able to move with the people. <BR /> <BR />Already, I think that the very core of the debate has been missed by some of the contributors. This is not a debate about human rights in the United Kingdom; this is a debate about a piece of legislation called the Human Rights Act, which, I believe many would argue, has failed to deliver what it was designed to do.”
“I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate. If I was to stand here and list all the reasons why I am proud and happy to reside in the United Kingdom, we would be here till late in the evening. However, in the top ten of my favourite things about being part of the United Kingdom is the fact that we are not bound by a written constitution in the way that other countries are.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I appreciate the time constraint. I am sure that the Minister would agree with me that there is no group in society more vulnerable and more in need of protection than children of preschool age. Therefore, what assistance is his Department going to give such groups — particularly in rural areas, which are going to be particularly hard hit by the reduction in funding — to help them to source funding from other sources?”
“I do not see the need to prolong the debate. All I need say is that my party will support the Bill as drafted.”
“Certainly, I understand that the Department is very confident that, if accelerated passage goes through, there is no good reason why it should not be in a position to be recruiting and have a new person in place, or at least ready to be in place, by the end of July. Therefore, the onus is back on the House to make the right decision. I support this entirely.”
“The challenge is now there to us as Committee members and indeed the whole House to bring the matter to as swift a conclusion as we can.”
“As with the last debate, I will keep my remarks extremely brief. I concur entirely with what the Chairman of the Committee has said. I do not think that the public would find it acceptable for one moment if the temporary appointment came to an end at the beginning of August and we were left with a severe gap in between. That would be very difficult to deal with. It is bad enough trying to deal with a recruitment process under existing legislation, but, if we were in parallel processes trying to manage a vacancy along with trying to get new legislation through, that could prove very convoluted. It is something that we really must avoid at all costs. <BR /> <BR />While I would certainly not want to discourage a thorough scrutiny of the legislation, it is, as the Chairperson said, only three clauses at the moment.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far. She will be aware, obviously, that there is a large amount of potential space outside Belfast as well. I represent Ballymena, which is a thriving private-sector town. What support will her Department give for grade A office space outside Belfast?”
“We broadly support the aims and principles of the Bill and will certainly not stand in the way of its passage today.”
“Obviously, a little later, we will look at that issue in more detail, and, therefore, I will not labour the point at this stage.”
“There is a strange dynamic in all the Committees of the Assembly in that there is one party in particular that seems to constantly oppose anything that has any degree of Britishness about it, yet somehow manages to continue to be part of an Executive who effectively administer British law that can be enacted only when it is assented to by Her Majesty The Queen. That, to me, seems an unusual dynamic, and I think that the vast majority of people looking in on this place would find it highly confusing. Whilst we welcome the fact that there was no red button pushed on this legislation over that issue, it is right that Sinn Féin should be challenged as to why it continues to take that stance. <BR /> <BR />The immediate priority is to get a new NIPSO in place; the tenure of Mr Frawley is rapidly coming to an end.”
“Perhaps we can consider that in the future. <BR /> <BR />As far as cost is concerned, the Department has indicated that the changes will have a small additional cost. I think that it is in the low tens of thousands but, certainly, for the improvements that this legislation will make there is a strong case that that cost should be met and that the office of the ombudsperson should be allowed to continue. <BR /> <BR />The Chair was very kind in his description of the small amount of disagreement that took place in Committee around certain aspects of the Bill. I may not be just so kind, if you will allow me, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker.”
“I know that we are only at Second Stage and there may be room to look at this later, but the role of the ombudsperson is to deliberate over maladministration; it is not to deliberate over malfeasance or whether the law has been broken. Therefore, I struggle a little to get my head around why the ombudsperson is exempted from taking up a case if it has previously gone to court. Obviously, a court is there to judge very definitely on whether the law has been broken. It is not there to make deliberations about whether there has been maladministration. Therefore, to me, it is entirely sensible that, if a decision has been taken by a judge as to whether or not the law has been broken, there should still, in my view, be the opportunity for the ombudsman to make a deliberation as to whether there has been maladministration.”
“By comparison with the previous contribution to the debate, mine will be very short because the Committee Chair's speech was a very good summing up of what has been discussed in Committee. What he says is right: there was relative unanimity in the direction that we wanted to take the Bill. It is probably fair to say that the vast majority of the public will probably not see a vast difference in what happens, but, procedurally, this work tidies up a lot of loose ends, and we should broadly welcome that. <BR /> <BR />The point that was made about the role of the ombudsperson is very important, and it is one area where I would like to have seen the Bill perhaps go a little further.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. The Law Society is critical of the Minister on his position on this issue; the Policing Board is critical of the Minister's position in how he has handled injury on duty; and the law fraternity, generally, has been critical of the Minister around how he has handled the redistribution of legal aid. Can the Minister identify any body within the legal family at the moment that is not critical of him?”
“Surely this is a clear indication that to make a viewpoint that the British have no say in the affairs of Northern Ireland is utterly insane.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Would the Member agree with me that Sinn Féin appears to have some degree of amnesia when it comes to the issue of what goes on in this place? The Education Bill, which was recently brought forward by the previous Member's Minister, starts with the words:”
“Indeed, it is a once-in-a-century opportunity for the parties of this island to have a real influence on the affairs of the national Parliament. That can be done only by returning a large, united group of people to Westminster. I believe with all my heart that the party on this side of the House is the only party that will be able to do that.”
“However, there is a huge question mark over whether, in the short to medium term, that will turn out to be the case while there is a continued failure on the part of some parties in the Assembly to face the realities that are being forced on us in relation to welfare reform. <BR /> <BR />I recognise that the Member for Foyle made specific mention of our party, and I am glad that even the nationalist parties are recognising that it looks like the DUP will be a strong contender for kingmaker when it comes to the next term. The Member will not be surprised to learn that I share his confidence. It is so important. This is a once-in-a-generation opportunity.”
“I struggle to see what the abstentionist parties really feel that they are achieving by taking that stance. <BR /> <BR />There are more important issues for us to look at. What can be achieved by strong Northern Ireland representation in the Mother of Parliaments in Westminster? From our point of view on this side of the House, we are putting the economy at the very centre of what we want to achieve, and we want to use our influence to ensure that Northern Ireland continues to prosper and to be looked on as a serious contender when it comes to foreign companies investing and creating wealth. The ability to set our own rate of corporation tax would be a hugely beneficial tool in making that grow even more.”
“The Member for Foyle makes a very good point in that Northern Ireland is within the United Kingdom — long may that be the case, as far as I am concerned — but, while that is the case, what excuse do the parties that do not take their seats have, because the precedent has been set in other places? <BR /> <BR />If we look at the Israeli Parliament, for example, there is a very strong Israeli Arab representation, and it would be easy for those people to throw their hands in the air and say that they do not agree with the state and what it is doing, so they will absent themselves. However, what they say is that they can make a difference in the Parliament and can have the voices of their people heard. They back up their words with actions in the way that they do so.”