Jim Allister
North Antrim · Traditional Unionist Voice · Northern Ireland
“<BR /> <BR />Last week, a 'News Letter' editorial rightly drew attention to the fact that there is a chorus of demand that it is up to the British Government to pay for that, but no pressure whatsoever on the GAA — the primary beneficiary — which still persists that its contribution will be a miserly £15 million.”
“Public money, we are constantly told, is in short supply and scarce. I am sure that it is, and will continue to be so. Yet, while many in the House pay lip service to the need to prioritise health, there seems to be a majority here who would prioritise public spending on a sporting facility, namely Casement Park.”
“That editorial stated that the DUP "should make clear" its view on the Casement Park costs. Yet, yesterday, we had the launch of the DUP manifesto and not a mention of Casement Park. We have a Minister — Minister Lyons — who has ruled out clawback for non-GAA use of that stadium.”
“Therefore, the Minister comes to the House with a proposal that, effectively, has been written in Brussels, because it tells us how much we can give to our fishing industry in Northern Ireland.”
“The Minister told us that this is a scheme under the Fisheries Act, which it is, whereby all the devolved regions and England and Wales can make their own provision.”
“Rather than removing the green lane, the introduction of the new customs border arrangements will further advance the development of the green lane, thereby helping to make the Irish Sea border and our alienation from the rest of the UK more firmly established.”
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“He said that he had "no intention". Is that still his position? If not, why has he moved from that position?”
“Since the protocol became law, the Minister is on the record of the House as saying unambiguously in answer to questions:”
“Taking what the Minister said in her earlier answer about withdrawal from the EU, am I now to take it that the First Minister accepts the iniquitous protocol, which will create a border down the Irish Sea? Does she no longer fear or think that it will create constitutional and economic damage of a catastrophic nature? Is that why it seems that the Executive are now working to implement the protocol that was hitherto anathema?”
“I struggle to follow the logic of the Member's position. He says that, because we have so many people homeless, which truly is a shame, we cannot afford to sell any housing stock. However, is the reality not that any stock that is sold is occupied by those who have been long-term tenants, who have no notion of giving up their tenancy but are intent on staying in that house? Therefore, whether they occupy the house as an owner-occupier or as a long-term staying tenant, nothing will be freed up in the market for the homeless. Is that not the logical reality?”
“My memories of Billy Bell go back quite a long time, though over the succeeding years they were quite sporadic. However, the one abiding characteristic that always struck me about Billy Bell was how affable an individual he was, and that betokened the character of the man. The strength of character, empathy and humanity of the man is quite clear from Pat Catney's tribute. To lose people of that character is a considerable loss. <BR /> <BR />I very much want to associate myself with the remarks that have been made about Billy Bell, and to express my condolences to his wife, children, grandchildren and his great-grandchildren, and to his party, which has lost something of a father figure, particularly in the Lagan valley area.”
“I agree with the Minister on the urgency of reopening our economy. It is a pity that some of those who were so gung-ho about closing it down, with no thought for tomorrow, had not been a bit more far-seeing. One need not be an economist to work out that the aero industry is going to be one of those with the toughest path into the future. With that in mind, and bearing in mind the assistance being given by Invest NI, etc, what scope is there, and how far is it being pursued, to discuss diversification with these firms? I ask that because it is hard to foresee the same volume of demand for aircraft seats in the immediate to medium future. Are there opportunities for diversification that could be explored? If so, are they being explored?”
“On the issue of proportionality, given that a headline demand of the Black Lives Matter movement is the de-funding of police, was it proportionate for the Minister to re-profile her Twitter page to extol Black Lives Matter, given that she has responsibility for funding the police? Likewise the Chief Constable, who used the hashtag. <BR /> <BR />Is she concerned that a sector of this community, namely the innocent victims, suffered great hurt from the spin-off of the events of the past weekend, when the Assembly Commission, in a duplicitous move, decided to light this Building for Black Lives Matter but refused to light this Building for innocent victims of terrorism? Does she share the concern for the hurt that that causes?”
“Can the Minister update the House on the health service's current level of reliance on the private sector and how he sees that evolving, going forward?”
“As the Minister moves our service from the national COVID service back to the National Health Service, I express disappointment that in the Northern Trust's phase 1 there is no return of the maternity services to the Causeway Hospital. Will the Minister give us an indication when that will happen, and that it is not a service that has been stripped out, never to return? <BR /> <BR />In terms of the framework going forward, is there not a danger with new advisory boards, new management boards, three-monthly service plans, expert advisers to this and that, and has it not got the feel of a bureaucracy bonanza? Is there a danger that the whole thing could get caught up in ever-strangling red tape?”
“On a point of order, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. Here we go again: without debate, the House is about to, yet again, extend the strangulation of scrutiny in the House by, this time, prohibiting topical questions. I can think of no time when it is more appropriate for the asking of topical questions than the situation in which we presently exist, and, yet, they are to be banished. <BR /> <BR />According to the Speaker's latest letter, also to be banished are follow-up supplementary questions, when Ministers are here, by anyone other than the Member who tabled the question. Why are we diminishing scrutiny in the House? Why are we shielding Ministers in the manner that these proposals will do?”
“Before the Member finishes her party political broadcast, and might I remind her that this is not all about Sinn Féin, would she have time to give any thought to the rights of the innocent in the womb, who are denied the most basic right of all, which is the right to live? Does she have any thought for them?”
“Does the Member not consider that the path to avoiding an extension to the transition is to get a deal? Therefore, in that regard, and bearing in mind that he represents a coastal constituency, has he any criticism to offer on the intransigence of the EU in seeking to rape and pillage our fishing waters? Has he any criticism to make of that, at least in the name of the fishermen of south Down?”
“It saddens me that, instead of standing firm and recognising the ability to thwart the protocol, there now is a spirit abroad, it seems, to acquiesce. That is not serving Northern Ireland's interests well. <BR /> <BR />This is not the time to stop Brexit. This is the time to proceed with Brexit. To stop it would be fatal economically for the whole United Kingdom.”
“<BR /> <BR />This all, of course, started with the foolhardy letter, which Mr O'Toole referenced, in August 2016, when the First Minister and the then deputy First Minister laid the groundwork for special status and, ultimately, for this protocol. We have now reached the situation where the protocol can be implemented only with the acquiescence and the active involvement of the Executive. That presents the unionist parties in the Executive with an opportunity to thwart that. Mr Poots told me, in answer to a question, that he would be providing no infrastructure at our ports, yet, last week, he was back-pedalling and soft-pedalling and talking in the lingo of Remainers about there being an opportunity both ways.”
“This really should be make-up time for the EU. Instead of that, of course, they persist with trying to pillage our fishing industry and bind us to what they call level-playing-field commitments, which will tie our hands behind our back economically, and shape and restrict the type of trade deals that we can do. If they want a deal, they can have a deal, but it has to be on fair terms. <BR /> <BR />The principle of Brexit remains absolutely sound and necessary. Sadly, it has been largely emasculated for us, in Northern Ireland, through the iniquitous protocol. However, the principle of Brexit remains sound. I greatly regret, I have to say, the slippage I am detecting from the DUP on the issue of the protocol.”
“The EU is so overburdened with its own bureaucracy, so stilted and rule-bound that it is the worst equipped to show agility in coming out of an economic crisis. <BR /> <BR />The United Kingdom would subject itself to that situation, over which it would have no control. What the United Kingdom needs, is an opportunity to show agility and deal with the economy in novel ways which the EU's regulations would never entertain. Therefore, I can think of no worse time to delay Brexit than this. <BR /> <BR />Of course, there is a way to avoid the need to extend, and that is to get a deal. If the EU wants to avoid a crash-out by its paymaster, the way to do it is to reach a deal. They should be mindful that they stand to lose more than we in the United Kingdom. If they want a deal, or to avoid a cliff edge, they should get down to business.”
“Make no mistake. This motion is not about delaying Brexit, it is about killing Brexit. It is not about getting a more opportune time for Brexit, it is about cancelling Brexit. <BR /> <BR />To do such a thing, to delay Brexit, at this time, would be economically catastrophic because, a nation like ourselves, coming out of the incredible damage caused to our economy by COVID, would then be hit, for the next two years, with billions upon billions of financial demands from Brussels, with no say over how one cent of it is spent and, on top of that, we would lose the flexibility, the agility that our nation will need to plot a way forward economically. We would be tied into that bloc which is the most ill-suited to find novel ways of dealing with an economic crisis.”
“Why are we not being told on a daily basis what the R rate is so that, as grown-ups, we can observe it ourselves rather than simply being told from on high that it is not at the level that allows any more movement? So, I ask, and I trust that we will be told in the response to the debate, what precisely is the current R rate? Everything is supposed to be predicated on that, so let us hear it. Let us see the graph of the R rate from the second that the epidemic started until now. If the number of people in hospital and new cases is significantly down, as it seems to be, is the R rate tracking that? As the R rate tracks that, how do you meet the statutory obligation to hold these regulations in place, since the statutory obligation is to have them no longer than is necessary?”
“Indeed, we were given to understand when the Executive published their five-step programme that, within Step 1, people would be able not just to meet outside with other family members but to visit in the homes of other family members, yet that step has never been taken. Why was it ever in Step 1 if it was not going to be taken? Why give the false hope and then snatch it away? It is another illustration of how public confidence is being sapped in the process of the regulations. <BR /> <BR />We are coming close to the end of another debate on these matters, and we are told that everything is linked to the R rate, but we have yet to hear in this debate what the R rate is. Why this secrecy? Why, every time, does the R rate have to be dragged out?”
“<BR /> <BR />This banding together of the whole concept of hotels, B&Bs, caravans, second homes, whatever, and just lumping them all together and treating them all the same is exactly what is creating the unease and the temptation to see these regulations dissipated by disobedience. That, essentially, is the biggest challenge. If the regulations lose public confidence, and there are manifestations of that, they will lose their traction and their hold, and, frankly, at the end of it, who can do much about it, particularly when the most basic provision about social distancing is not even in the regulations? <BR /> <BR />I welcome the tiny steps taken, but I urge a more cogent advance away from this pace of the slowest and remembering the statutory obligation to retain any one of these regulations for no longer than is necessary.”
“Absolutely. I received an email this week that would have brought tears to your eyes about a lady who had gone to her caravan for that very reason and yet was then expelled from her caravan and sent back home to a situation where she could not move out of her room. <BR /> <BR />When government makes provision that creates that sort of inequitable and uneven stipulation, there is something seriously wrong. So, I say to the Executive: you really have to get a grip on how these regulations are working out in real life. As the Member says, why could someone who owns their caravan not go to it, stay in it, sit outside it, take a walk? My goodness, in a week or two, they will be able to get on a plane and fly to Spain, but they cannot drive 20 miles down the road and stay in their own caravan. Where is the logic of that? It is not there.”
“Those are both premised on the fact that those are outsiders, or third parties, who are coming to use premises such as a hotel or a caravan, which they might rent for a week, a fortnight or whatever. However, that takes no account of the owner-occupied caravans and of the person who owns their own caravan or their own holiday home, and, here, I declare an interest. That takes no account of why, if it is the case, they should be banished from using their caravan, holiday home or apartment until 20 July. If someone goes to their holiday home this weekend and behaves as they would behave at home, sitting in their garden and going for their walk, what is the difference?”
“There are many in our society, particularly amongst the lower-paid, who like to play golf but they cannot afford the golf club fees so they turn up on a pay-as-you-go basis. However, they are not permitted. Why? If it is safe, as it patently is, to play golf outdoors where you can socially distance and it is safe for members, why is it not safe for non-members? Again, it is inconsistencies like that that bring the regulations into disrepute. <BR /> <BR />Then we have the issue — I raised it in the previous debate — of caravan parks. We are now told that, from 20 July, hotels can open, but they may not be able to serve breakfast and dinner. However, you can make a booking blind as to whether any of those things will operate. Likewise, we are told that caravan parks will open.”
“I think that people are entitled to an answer to that, because if a place of worship is the premises and if a place of worship denotes a static premises, then, as these are drafted, it seems that they would not allow the flexibility that is clearly needed. I trust that that will be examined further. <BR /> <BR />Amongst the other things done by this change is, of course, travel for an outdoor activity, and that is good. However, there are, on the foot of that, some inequities, because that led, for example, to the opening of golf clubs. I never quite understood why golf courses were ever closed, but there you are. The iniquity comes from the fact that golf clubs seem to be operating on the basis that they are open only for members.”
“does that allow the necessity of drive-in services other than at the church premises? I fear that it may not, and yet, it should. <BR /> <BR />I say to the Executive Office that it needs to look at that again because there are many churches that do not have a large car park or a huge curtilage, and which therefore could not hold a drive-in service where the cars all park up and listen because they simply have not got the accommodation. However, they might be able to hire a public car park or utilise a nearby field, but do the regulations allow that? That is the question that I am asking.”
“and then we add to that one of the uses being —”
“Given that the regulation is premised with:”
“If churches are suitable for small funerals and small marriages involving the terminally ill, why are they not suitable for small marriages across the board? When we last debated these regulations, I said that it was key to them ever securing the traction that they would hold that they have an inherent common sense and cogency within them. It is the lack of that, I fear, that is undermining the regulations as much as anything else. <BR /> <BR />The third regulation introduces matters such as drive-in services. In this debate I have already asked the junior Minister about that, and I was disappointed that he was not able to answer me because it is a question that I have tabled to his office. It is an important question for those in the Church fraternity. The amendment amends regulation 4(6), which begins:”
“I am glad that the council area in which I live — Mid and East Antrim Borough Council — has, necessarily, opened many public toilets because if people are going to gather at places, where is the logic in adding to health problems by not having public toilets? That needs to be addressed. <BR /> <BR />Coming to regulations 2 and 3, which we are debating, one of them, humanely, introduces marriage in church for the terminally ill. That is necessary, sensible and right, but then the same Executive allow only fair-weather marriages for others. So, here we have a situation where a family, limited in numbers, can have a funeral service in a church, a terminally ill party to a marrying couple can have a service in a church, but some other couple that want to get married have to do it outside and hope for a good day. Where is the logic in that?”
“So, before we all get on our high horse about people daring to do this and that, we should look at the regulations that were drafted and recognise that they are deficient in regard to social distancing. Maybe the Executive would be better occupied remedying that before anything else is said about those who do not social distance. <BR /> <BR />Of course, social distancing is the greatest antidote to the spread of COVID-19, and, yes, it is necessary, but it is equally necessary that it be in the regulations, yet it is not. Why not? Still, why not? That is an issue. <BR /> <BR />Then, of course, when you have people gathering, as they do, the public nuisance is compounded in many cases by the fact that public toilets are closed.”
“Although there is now much lamenting about the breaching of social distancing, part of the cause of that and the lack of ready remedy for that lies in the fact that this Executive brought forth regulations from which that was absent. <BR /> <BR />Even though we have had two or three changes to the regulations, we still have not put that into the regulations. Of course, that means that when the PSNI are called to Ballyholme beach or Portrush or wherever, yes, they can seek to enforce groups of only six, but they can do nothing under the law about people standing shoulder to shoulder and not social distancing. That is a failure of the Executive's regulations — a continuing failure that has not been addressed.”
“The very modest steps involved in the further easement are a demonstration that we are undoubtedly moving at the pace of the slowest, and that, of course, is one of the blights of the system of government that we have. There is much talk, understandably, about the gathering of young people and others on beaches and at other places, and, yet, the point that that demonstrates is the inadequacy of the regulations in the first place. <BR /> <BR />Even though, across the world, the common denominator of fighting COVID-19 is social distancing, this Executive managed to produce regulations that do not in law require social distancing. There is no provision in these regulations that says that parties must stay 2 metres apart. Yes, it is in guidance, but it is not in the regulations.”
“I have been seeking clarification on that point. The regulation speaks about attending what is, effectively, a drive-in church "on the premises", but nowhere in the regulation is the premises defined. Does that mean that it has to be premises within the curtilage of the church building, or can it be premises that are rented for the purpose, such as a nearby field or public car park? Will he clarify?”
“Nothing would please me better than to see my constituency become a hydrogen hub built around Wrightbus, so that we could see the progression and so that Translink could be supplied with hydrogen buses and all those things could be advanced. <BR /> <BR />A little economic forethought and a little economic reality would be a lot preferable to the sentiment that floats around in the motion and the amendment.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to say this to the Minister: if she wants to do something green that is based not in sentiment but in manufacturing reality, I direct her attention to supporting Wrightbus. Wrightbus in Ballymena is moving forward as a world leader in hydrogen-driven buses and vehicles. If she really wants to create a hub in Northern Ireland for green, clean, safe energy and its use across our transportation sector, as opposed to those who pontificate about the sentiment of the green economy, there is a reality of the green economy that could and should be tapped into.”
“When it comes to saying that we must move our economy from its superdependence on the public sector, nothing. When it comes to the issue of competitiveness, nothing to say. And, of course, when it comes to who will pay, nothing to say. It is a motion that, frankly, might be verbose in proclaiming virtuous things but provides nothing in terms of taking us forward. It is not much help that the only amendment to it that has been permitted is one that simply adds a green flavour. There was another amendment that did, at least, talk about the urgent need to restart economic activity, but it did not merit attention on the Order Paper. We are left with this wish list of a socialist nature, which does not really take us very far.”
“I can readily join in saluting our front-line workers, who have been magnificent throughout this matter across our Province, but I have to say that, when it comes to the motion as a road map to get us back on the path to economic prosperity, I despair. It is like any other socialist manifesto that I have read. It is all about promises and hope but has no answers. Look at the motion. When it comes to restarting our economy, what does it say? Nothing. When it comes to support for business, what does it say? Nothing. When it comes to recognising that wealth creation is key to job creation, what does it say? Nothing. When it comes to talking about economic prosperity, what does it say? Nothing. When it comes to speaking about global competitiveness, nothing.”
“I only wish that that condemnation had been reciprocated when we were the victims of horrendous terrorism.”
“I do not recall condemnation of the bloodthirsty murder of the corporals in Northern Ireland echoing around the legislatures of the United States. Today, however, we, as human beings, do condemn the murder of George.”
“Instead of condemning that, Mr Carroll told us that he was in solidarity with those bravely standing up to and defying the forces in the United States. He told us that that inspired things here. Sadly, it probably did. <BR /> <BR />One of the things, of course, that we will remember the United States for most in terms of own Troubles is the dollars that funded the weapons that armed vile terrorists. Ms Sheerin, they were not freedom fighters. They were vile terrorists of the lowest order, who inflicted the most horrendous killings in this community. Indeed, I have to say that I have no recollection of the United States Congress or any other congress in any state very often raising issues in defence of the innocent in Northern Ireland.”
“Anyone who watched the footage could not only be aghast but outraged at what they saw: the deliberate actions leading to the death, nay the murder, of George Floyd. It is right and appropriate, and I am glad of it, that the perpetrator has been charged with offences, and others look to me as if they likewise should be charged. However, what we then witnessed is the exploitation of that incident to unleash, by forces of anarchy, sheer terror on the streets of the United States. <BR /> <BR />I was very disappointed that the Member who raised this matter did not have one word of condemnation for that anarchy, which is not honouring the memory of George Floyd or anyone else but is seeking to exploit the situation for the advantage of anarchists and the far left, with no regard to the memory or the life or the testimony of George Floyd.”
“<BR /> <BR />In regard to the future, has there been foot-dragging on the appointment of a permanent commissioner? The interim commissioner was appointed last July, and the last that I heard was that it is going to be September before we can expect a full-time commissioner? Is that not letting down very badly those who need the most support?”
“I am sure that the First Minister recognises that the victims of historical abuse need their privacy more than most and that, therefore, when they discovered that their privacy was so spectacularly breached by their supposed advocate, it created a trauma that many of them are finding very, very difficult. In circumstances where the interim advocate and his office were the culprits, they clearly cannot advocate for the victims on this issue. Does not that in itself underscore that the interim advocate's position is untenable and that he should be relieved of his office because he has long since lost the confidence of many of the victims? Indeed, the major group that speaks for most of the victims has disengaged from contact with him. Is this not the last straw for the interim advocate?”
“To be absolutely clear, is the Minister saying that there is still a £59 million pot for transportation that is not earmarked for anything else at the moment, so if Economy and Infrastructure get their act together, there is no reason why the haulage industry could not be helped?”
“— as 80% to 85% for the first seven months? Maybe the Minister will explain that as well.”
“Would it not be more logical to ascertain that now to see where the savings are that could be redistributed, rather than going forward blindly as to whether there are savings — I do not know whether there are, but I suspect that, across Departments, there must be — and utilise that money so that we do not allocate as much —”
“<BR /> <BR />Will the Minister confirm to me that by reason of the absence of Main Estimates, no Department legally can spend its own resources that it accumulates? Until the Main Estimates are approved, is it not the case that Departments' own accruing resources cannot be spent? I would like clarification on that. <BR /> <BR />A final point has been troubling me. As we go through this economic and financial year, there is, by reason of coronavirus, huge demand, but, there must, surely, also be relevant savings in some Departments. There must be some Departments that, because of COVID, are not able to spend all that they anticipated spending. Yet these Estimates, the Budget Bill, will not reflect that at all. The Committee was told, "We will not know that until June monitoring".”
“I would like the Minister to elaborate further on that, if he can, because that seems to me to be a very critical issue. <BR /> <BR />On the Estimates, here we are, for the second time, effectively approving 80% of the spend with very little detail and just with global figures for each Department. There are no spending lines in this. The critical thing about any legislature is that it is the ultimate authority to spend money. The norm would be that you can see where you are spending the money. All that we can see are global figures for each Department. I do not think that that lends itself to either the transparency or the accountability that we should have. If we are going to produce these and a further Budget Bill, could we not at least have spending lines for each Department, so that we could see where the money is going?”
“This morning, the Infrastructure Minister, when asked about that, talked much about the Department of Transport etc but she then suggested that there was still £59 million of transport money at the centre. Is that correct? Is there is a pot of £59 million labelled "transportation"? If that is so, is there any reason why the local Departments for the Economy and Infrastructure could not come forward with a proposal for the haulage industry to be supported to spend all or a substantial portion of that money? In other words, is that pot of money available? Leaving out the Department of Transport, leaving out the Treasury, is that pot of money available to help the haulage sector, because at this moment in time it seems to be the forgotten key component of our economy?”
“It does not leave much thereafter, and that has to be a major concern, certainly as far as I am concerned. <BR /> <BR />There are a couple of individual issues that I would like to take the Minister to. One of them has been referred to already in this debate. When I asked him last week about the haulage industry, he said:”