Jim Allister
North Antrim · Traditional Unionist Voice · Northern Ireland
“<BR /> <BR />Last week, a 'News Letter' editorial rightly drew attention to the fact that there is a chorus of demand that it is up to the British Government to pay for that, but no pressure whatsoever on the GAA — the primary beneficiary — which still persists that its contribution will be a miserly £15 million.”
“Public money, we are constantly told, is in short supply and scarce. I am sure that it is, and will continue to be so. Yet, while many in the House pay lip service to the need to prioritise health, there seems to be a majority here who would prioritise public spending on a sporting facility, namely Casement Park.”
“That editorial stated that the DUP "should make clear" its view on the Casement Park costs. Yet, yesterday, we had the launch of the DUP manifesto and not a mention of Casement Park. We have a Minister — Minister Lyons — who has ruled out clawback for non-GAA use of that stadium.”
“Therefore, the Minister comes to the House with a proposal that, effectively, has been written in Brussels, because it tells us how much we can give to our fishing industry in Northern Ireland.”
“The Minister told us that this is a scheme under the Fisheries Act, which it is, whereby all the devolved regions and England and Wales can make their own provision.”
“Rather than removing the green lane, the introduction of the new customs border arrangements will further advance the development of the green lane, thereby helping to make the Irish Sea border and our alienation from the rest of the UK more firmly established.”
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“That brings me to one of my main concerns. We allocated up to 45% of last year's Budget to last to the end of July. It has not lasted. We are now allocating in some cases up to 85% — let us say 80% — of resources to last to the end of October. To the end of October is only seven months of the twelve-month financial year. If we are giving authority to spend 80% of the Budget in the first seven months of the year, what on earth is going to happen in the last five months? Where are we going, in that regard? There is a limit to the size of begging bowl that you can produce. <BR /> <BR />I really would like to understand why we think that it is rational and right to take what equates to around 80%, in round figures, of our resources and effectively say to Departments that that is their budget just to the end of October.”
“Here we are again, discussing a further Vote on Account. I confess to the House that I do not fully understand why we have not simply moved to Main Estimates. I know that there is fluidity in the situation and that there are lots of unforeseens, but, at the beginning of the month, the Westminster Parliament put through its Main Estimates. It is living in the same fluid environment, so although I have asked the officials at the Committee as to why we too are not proceeding in the regular fashion with Main Estimates, I am frankly not convinced that there is a good answer to that. Perhaps the Minister, when he makes his winding-up speech, can explain why it is that we are drip-feeding, again, through an extension to more interim Estimates.”
“That is very different from saying that the Treasury decided that there was not funds. That is the Minister of Finance saying that there was a pot of transportation money sitting in his Department, awaiting an application to support the haulage industry, but that it did not come and the money instead went to Translink. Is that correct? If so, why was the haulage sector neglected? <BR /> <BR />If I might, in her pursuit of green energy, will the Minister undertake to visit and meet Wrightbus to discover the exciting plans that it has for hydrogen buses, which, of course, Translink could greatly benefit from?”
“Can I take the Minister back to the lack of financial support for the haulage sector? I heard what she said to the Chair of the Committee, which was to the effect that the Department for Transport and the Treasury said that there was no need for support. In fact, last week in the Chamber, when I asked the Finance Minister about this, he said:”
“<BR /> <BR />I have to ask the First Minister, Mrs Foster, what is the point in being First Minister if you cannot even deliver in this most demanding of situations? If you cannot deliver for the innocent victims of terrorism, what is the point in being First Minister? We are told that it is about finance. I wonder? I suspect that there is a party in the Executive dragging its feet on the issue, because it does not accept that the pension should be only for those who were innocent and who did not cause their own harm. Is that the real reason why there has been delay and failure to take this forward and failure to designate a Department? I suspect that it is. However, one thing is clear: the innocent victims — just as they have been in the definition of "victim" — have been let down again. It is an appalling indictment of Government.”
“I simply have this observation: why was the leverage of the opportunity of the New Decade, New Approach (NDNA) negotiations squandered? It was an opportunity to put the issue to bed. Why was the assurance not obtained that there would be funding, wherever it came from? That was the time to deliver. The victims were let down in those negotiations. Now, we are in the woeful situation that if the Executive are to negotiate with the Exchequer on the funding of the pension, the man who will go to negotiate — the Finance Minister — is a past member of the very organisation that made so many of the victims. A man who cannot even do his duty by the Quinn family will now, it seems, be asked to take forward proceedings with the Exchequer. What hope is there?”
“I am grateful, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to raise this issue. In the week when the leader of Sinn Féin told the innocent victims of the IRA that the actions of the organisation that made them victims were justified, all victims received the kick in the teeth that the pension that they had been long promised was not going to be delivered as promised. That is an appalling failure of Government. To think that those who lost the most in the horrendous Troubles are simply to be cast aside and told that what they were promised by Government is not now at this point to be delivered is truly shocking. The reason for that is equally shocking. It is that it appears, we are told, that there is not agreement on the funding of that vital pension.”
“I am back to the point that that lacks the inherent logic and common sense that should be there. I appeal to the Executive: please, act on that issue and on the many more issues that you need to act on.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to pick up on a comment that I heard the First Minister make this morning. I was glad to hear her say it, and I want to encourage the Executive as a whole to act on it, and that was to allow small weddings. Already today, two people have been in touch with me about that position. They had their licence for marriage, but the shutdown came. They are very anxious to get married but find that, no matter how small they are prepared to make their wedding, even if they were prepared to have it outdoors, they are not allowed to get married.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us remind ourselves, the greatest threat from this virus comes not from the economically active, but from mostly the older community. Restoration of economic activity is not something that flies flatly in the face of dealing with COVID-19. Identifying where the problems and the growth in the virus are, is something that can be done in tandem with encouraging economic resuscitation. <BR /> <BR />I was disappointed that, yesterday, I did not even hear the economy mentioned in the press conference. Baby steps have been taken. They are necessary. I question why one of them was ever there in the first place. I welcome the fact that there will be some easement, I trust, in exercise and travel, and I encourage the Executive to go further.”
“Absolutely. The fact is that it is not moving. People are surviving only by virtue of the very legitimate, necessary Government handouts which are coming from the Treasury, as Mr Nesbitt pointed out. That is not a healthy position to be in. It is not one that can continue indefinitely. Therefore, it is one that any responsible Government, putting in place all the protections, particularly the social-distancing protections, that can be put in place, need to be encouraging the restoration of economic activity. Without it, there is nothing left of our economy after this pandemic. Without an economy, what have we? It is not a binary choice between good health and a good economy. It is a sensible choice, between resuscitating the economy where you can, as soon as you can, without imperilling the generality of health.”
“My complaint is that I see secondary, or lesser, or even absent for some, consideration of the economy. I make a plea that the economy is central to that decision, as this matrix says. <BR /> <BR />Yes, I give way.”
“Probably, after I quickly respond to the Member who spoke previously. I remind that Member that the Executive's matrix, which it published yesterday, said:”
“If we were moving to step 1 yesterday, I did not hear a word about what that meant for returning to work. My goodness, when you listen today and hear that unemployment in the month of April rose by 90%, you know that that needs to be central to the thinking of the Executive, or we will have no economy left. What is the direction on step 1 in relation to encouraging people back to work? How are they being encouraged?”
“<BR /> <BR />On that theme, we were told last Thursday, in the public media, by the Agriculture Minister, Mr Poots, that on Thursday the Executive had advice from the scientific and medical officers on step 1 and that we were good to go; we were good to go on step 1, with no qualification. Yet, of course, when it came to yesterday, we were not good to go on all of step 1. In-house meetings are still prohibited. What was yesterday's message on step 1 in relation to going to work? Step 1 states:”
“At last week's Ad Hoc Committee, we were told that it was 0·7. When I asked the Health Minister if he knew anything about the requirement for it to be 0·5, given what Michelle O'Neill had said, he told us that he had never heard of it. That brings us to the fundamental question: are the leaders of the Executive being driven by the real science, not Michelle science? Or, are there other agendas at play? Are there some who want to drag their feet on this? Are there some who are quite happy if the economy of this part of the United Kingdom suffers more damage? I am beginning to think that there might be.”
“There is an illogicality to that. <BR /> <BR />A few days ago, I had a lady on the phone with me who was, literally, crying. Her caravan is her life. She was not going to her caravan to party or to parade up and down the main street. She was going to socially distance, she hoped, at her pride and joy, which is her caravan. The Executive talks much, rightly, about mental health and mental health champions. It is becoming manifestly clear to me that, for some people in that position, it is having a very adverse effect on their mental health. I say this to the Executive: it is time to weave into this approach greater humanity and greater common sense on some of these issues. <BR /> <BR />Mr Stalford, rightly, asked a legitimate question and, no doubt, Mr Lyons will give us the answer. What is the R number today? Where does it leave us?”
“They are something that every one of us should want to lift at the first opportunity because they are so impeding of the rights of us all. If you have regulations that have within them a form of inherent contradiction, then the respect for them dissipates. Indeed, ultimately, they could fall by virtue of disobedience. So, it is important that the regulations have that coherent element of common sense and logic to them. <BR /> <BR />I go back to the point about the caravan owner. There is quite a cohort of people in the Province who, when it gets to this time of the year, just live for their caravan. They love pottering about it, sitting outside it etc. Take my example of the golfer: if he legitimately goes to play golf in that town, and he is going back the next day, he cannot stay in his caravan. Why should that be?”
“I think that that is right, but there are many people who, for example, have the privilege of belonging to some of the prestige golf clubs. I know people from Ballymena who are members of Royal Portrush. When they go to play golf, they will be going to Royal Portrush. Likewise, there are people who belong to clubs in many other parts of the Province. <BR /> <BR />The point that I am making is that for regulations to be viable and sustainable, they need to have an inherent coherence and they need to make sense to ordinary people. The public have been remarkable in their degree of obedience. As Mr Stalford pointed out, these are spectacularly restrictive regulations. They are something that none of us should get used to.”
“If a man drives to play his golf, and if he is a caravan owner in that particular town — perhaps he drives to Newcastle or Portrush to play his golf — and he is going to be playing on two successive days, which he would be entitled to do, he is prohibited from staying in his caravan. Why should that be?”
“means that we will have a more sensible approach to the issue. <BR /> <BR />Of course, now that golf courses — quite properly, I believe — are to be opened tomorrow, that inevitably means that it is reasonable in all the circumstances to travel for the purpose of such exercise. So, if someone is driving to the golf club of their choice, in the doing of that they are no longer in breach of the regulations. That is how it should be. If Minister Poots delivers on what he said last week, that by tomorrow week he will reopen the car parks at the forest parks — which is a good idea — then, plainly, someone who drives to Tollymore or Roe Valley or wherever for the purpose of exercise cannot be in breach of the regulations. <BR /> <BR />However, it throws up some further complications.”
“In my view, the pivotal issue in all of this is social distancing. That has to be the fundamental protection. Therefore, when you examine individual episodes and ignore all of that, you are not delivering the purpose that the legislation exists for. I hope that the fact that it now expressly says:”
“It makes the point, as the case of the man whom I am referring to makes the point, of an unnecessary, overzealous approach to these regulations.”
“He went to the extremity of the car park, so that he would be well away from anyone. He went there because, as probably everyone in the House knows, the promenade at the west strand is particularly wide. It is several metres wide. He thought that that would be a safe place for him to walk his dog. Yet, before he could even get out of his car, a police patrol came to his window — no PPE, of course — and demanded to know why he was there. When he sought to explain, he was abruptly told that that was no excuse and he would be issued with a ticket.”
“Then, we have the amendment to regulation 5, which seeks to clarify the business of leaving your home for the purpose of exercise and underscores the necessity to have regard to all the circumstances. It is a matter of regret to me that, when the original clause was introduced, we had, from some police officers, an overzealous implementation. I think of one case of a gentleman from Coleraine who has health issues. He is not shielding, but he has health issues of which he is conscious. He has a dog. Where he lives, the footpaths are very narrow. Every time that he went out, given how closely people were having to pass him, he felt uncomfortable about COVID-19. One day, having experienced that, he got in his car and drove to the west strand car park in Portrush, four or five miles away.”
“I still, though, have this fundamental question: why were graveyards included in the first place? The thought of one or two people, who are more likely to be elderly than not, making their way to a graveyard to sit or stand beside the grave of a loved one ever posing a threat to anyone in the spread of coronavirus is hard to comprehend. I am glad that, eventually, the Executive came to their senses and realised that that was an alleviation that had to be granted. It did, in the meantime, though, as many of us, as constituency Members, know, cause a great deal of grief to individuals who were prohibited from performing those functions. <BR /> <BR />That is the first portion of the regulation, which is welcome in all its parts.”
“Forgive my cynicism, but I must say that, when I hear two convicted terrorists speak in the House, one about "the name of humanity" and the other about saving lives, I am afraid that my thoughts go to the actions of those who performed the very opposite. Then one of those persons — maybe both of them, in fact — devoted their speech, in large measure, to — I was going to say "veiled", but it was hardly veiled at all — an attack on the Health Minister and invoked the phrase "all in this together", but it is pretty clear that some on this Executive are anything but all in this together. I think that those contributions spoke for themselves in that regard. <BR /> <BR />As for what is before us today, I very much welcome, as I did when it was announced, the alleviation in respect of graveyards.”
“I very much welcome the relief that has been secured for the substitute teachers. That was an inequity long needing to be addressed, and that is good. I was hoping, though it is not the Minister's responsibility, that, in liaison with the Department for the Economy, there might have been some good news for the haulage sector. What I really wanted to ask the Minister was this: I want to better understand the Treasury rules and the departmental approach to furloughing in the public sector. He has already said that the Treasury frowns on it, to put it at its mildest. Yet, we have councils who have had authority to furlough. Will he explain how that works and what are the rules about that?”
“Ms Sugden makes a very valid point. In your discretion, you could call her at a very early stage after the next Minister makes his statement.”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. In an effort to be helpful to the House —”
“What encouragements have been issued on foot of step one that would ease the burden on her Department? Will she expand on what those encouragements are for people to get back into work?”
“The scale of the distribution of Her Majesty's Treasury funds through the Minister's Department is impressive and generous, but it cannot go on for ever on that scale. The reminder today of a 90% increase in unemployment in April is a sobering thought. Yesterday, we supposedly moved to step 1 of the easement. On employment, step 1 says:”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, several times during the statement and questions, you have upbraided Members for not being brief. Yet, surely, it is clear to anyone that the problem here is not the verbosity of the Members but the verbosity of the Minister, who has gone unchallenged for taking endless time — three and four minutes — to reply to questions. Can you apply a little parity of esteem on the issue, please?”
“Yes, but is the problem, particularly for Northern Ireland, not that, whereas you might have all these goals, you can only move to any of them at the pace of the slowest because of the veto-operating Executive that we have? Are we not in fact, in this part of the United Kingdom, more likely to be held back from doing things that we need to do for our economy and these other various steps because of the problems of operating mandatory coalition with a veto? The result is that you move at the pace of the slowest.”
“As I see it, the devolved regions were all very happy to be in lockstep with Westminster when it came to receiving and spending the Treasury's generous support. Now that we have moved, hopefully, to easing out of lockdown, there seems to be a preference for difference. I suggest to the First Minister that this should not be about the virility of devolution, nor about who has the best slogan. However, it could ultimately be about who has an economy left. I would like to hear from the First Minister a sense of urgency as to the resuscitation of our economy, because the stagnation of the status quo is going to do untold damage. It is very good to have a satnav that gives us the direction of travel, but if a satnav keeps saying, "Do not start the engine", it is not really advancing us, is it?”
“I have no objection to scrutiny. It is important. I express the hope though that, though we are fixing a date in December, there is nothing to ail the Committee completing its work before that. It is my hope that that will be possible. We take our first evidence tomorrow, and I hope that we can finish well in advance of December.”
“I very much apologise. I simply ask that the Minister would, at some point, give an updated answer to that question for written answer.”
“— to the allocations to various Departments —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Paragraph 2.34 deals with New Decade, New Approach and the Budget document sets out various amounts of money. They total £523 million that seems to be coming. If I recall correctly, the Minister previously said that the figure that should have been coming from New Decade, New Approach was £740 million. Which is the up-to-date figure? <BR /> <BR />Finally, I once asked the Minister a question for written answer — AWQ 238/1722 — about what efficiencies would be required from Departments. He answered that question by saying that, when we came —”
“I say it again: that is just wrong. Why is it here? The block grant is DEL plus AME. I would like the Minister to explain why the matter is so misdescribed in paragraph 2.4. It is not just some flippant document that is dashed off for someone's entertainment. It is the Budget document. It is supposed to be accurate and complete, so why is it misleading in paragraph 2.4. <BR /> <BR />I want to ask a few other questions that come out of the document. Paragraphs 2.36 to 2.38 refer to the confidence and supply monies, and I confess that I have almost lost track of all of it. I simply ask the Minister this: has all the confidence and supply money that was previously promised been paid or promised to be paid, or is there still a shortfall in that regard?”
“The block grant, as surely we should know, is DEL plus AME. The block grant is cash. The block grant in tables 1 and 2 etc in the annexe is the DEL and the AME. It is not a mere £12 billion or £14 billion as the DEL tables show. Indeed, go to the current Treasury publication of the United Kingdom Estimates and look at page 424 and you will see that the estimated block grant, the payment into the Northern Ireland Consolidated Fund for this year, is £22·6 billion. That is what the block grant is. It is not just DEL. I must say that I am astounded that a Department would produce a document that contains such a misleading assertion: that the DEL allocations are:”
“That is plain wrong. It is wholly misleading and factually inaccurate to say that DEL allocations are:”
“They are "considerably less". That is the reality that I and other Members were talking about in the last Budget debate and the reality that the Minister was seeking to deny. I am glad, therefore, that it is down in black and white in his document today. <BR /> <BR />Speaking of paragraph 2 of the document, I draw the House's attention to the very next subparagraph. It states:”
“I am, therefore, glad that today, in his Budget document at paragraph 2.3, there is this emphatic and unmistakable statement. This is a document in which the Minister writes the foreword, of course. It is his Budget document. It states:”
“Therefore, as her Majesty's Minister of Finance here continues to spend the money sent from the Treasury, and as we look forward to playing our part, as part of that nation, in picking up this economy hereafter, we do have the comfort of knowing that far from chasing the rainbows of some fantasies — constitutional or otherwise — we are part of a solid reliable economy, and that is a good place to be during difficulties such as we are facing. <BR /> <BR />In the last Budget debate, we had a discussion about the fiscal deficit. The Minister tried to diminish the fiscal deficit, tried to talk down the amount of money that we get in the block grant, and took refuge in all sorts of inexplicable obfuscations to minimise it.”
“These are challenging and difficult times and so they will continue, I fear, because on the other side of COVID-19, the fiscal commitments that have been made will have to be paid for, and the economy — whatever shape it emerges in — will be indisputably weaker than when it entered the crisis. Therefore, facing into that, it is a comfort to any thinking person to know that, at our back, we have a major country, the United Kingdom, with a leading role in the world's economy and with opportunities and reserves far greater than many lesser countries.”
“I can conclude very quickly. I have two issues. One is that pertaining to the unrequited apology, unfulfilled apology, of Sinn Féin for the murder of a census worker. The other is how we are going to check against abuse of this census process. I would like to hear the junior Minister step up to the plate on both issues.”
“I see nothing in the legislation that adequately provides for that. Mr Principal Deputy Speaker, that is a particular flaw in this matter.”
“We are going to have a census that asks a question about capacity in Irish, for example, fluency, ability to understand, ability to write and ability to speak. What is in the process to stop anyone who is so minded — whose knowledge of Irish might be no greater than Gregory Campbell's — to write on the census form that they are fluent in Irish and that they can speak it, understand it and write it, for the purpose of demonstrating a phantom rise in the number of Irish speakers in Northern Ireland. There is nothing in this census which protects against that. I, for one, am not foolish enough to think that that would not happen, given the political nature of the campaign that drives much of that contention. <BR /> <BR />I challenge the Ministers on what protections are in place, or will be put in place, to proof the answers that are given.”
“We need to know that the information that is given by the population is accurate, yet I heard nothing from the junior Minister about how the information will be checked for its accuracy or how that will be made foolproof. <BR /> <BR />I do not think that any of us in the Chamber should be so naïve as to think that there are not people out there with various agendas who are willing to give their pet cause a leg-up in a census, particularly in circumstances where they can now do it online and no one will come to collect the information. <BR /> <BR />I will take the issue of language fluency. We all know that, in this Province, there is a politically-driven campaign to big-up the needs of the Irish language sector.”