Ross Hussey
West Tyrone · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“For years, I have been asking the police for information on weaponry that has been recovered and its history. For some reason, that information has never been released. Why? Can that weaponry be traced back to the IRA? Is there a possibility that groups that were IRA took their weaponry with them? Of course there is.”
“In my constituency of West Tyrone, and in the neighbouring one of Foyle, the Police Service of Northern Ireland has recovered many weapons and explosives, all belonging to terror groups that do not have the guts to give themselves a name or, at times, call themselves the "Continuity IRA" or whatever.”
“I begin by passing my best wishes to the police officer who was seriously injured last night and to his colleagues in the Police Service of Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Previously, I asked the Minister for details of prison officers who had retired as a result of injury on duty and was informed that the information could not be provided, as it was confidential. Can the Minister advise me why it is confidential?”
“I met Mencap yesterday, and we discussed the problems associated with adults with learning disabilities in West Tyrone. The figure is not £8 million: we are possibly talking about £110 million or more that has been underspent in West Tyrone and the Western Health and Social Care Trust.”
“I apologise to the Minister for not being here for the start of her statement, but I have read your statement and was paying attention as you spoke. You referred to paramilitarism and also to forensic services. Clearly, in the Republic of Ireland, quite a few explosive devices and arms caches have been found.”
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“<BR />When is a civil servant not a civil servant? That is the sort of question that we should be asking here today. Who employed you in the first place? The point was made by several Members, including Mr Allister, that you were employed by the Department of Finance and Personnel and then allocated to a Department. I know that the Police Service of Northern Ireland put forward a business case for discussion in October 2010. This is where I get confused: the Police Service of Northern Ireland put forward a business case to the Department of Justice that was turned down by the DFP, because it then goes back to the delegation. Who had the delegated authority? Was it the Police Authority, the Policing Board or the Department of Finance and Personnel? That is an issue that will have to continue to be discussed.”
“My thoughts have been quite hazy this afternoon, listening to some of the comments made here. I begin by welcoming members of the Civil Service who are here to watch the debate and hear what is going on in the Chamber in support of them. I thank the Minister for coming to give us some answers, but I am disappointed that some of her party colleagues did not come to show support to the Northern Ireland civil servants who are affected by this. <BR /> <BR />We have had a debate where everybody has agreed that there is a moral argument. Moral arguments will not put money into the pockets of the civil servants concerned. In 2011, when I stood for election to this House, I met many people throughout the constituency who were concerned about this issue. It is sad to reflect that, so many years later, we still have not resolved it.”
“Was the pay delegation still in the realm of the Policing Board?”
“Sorry, Minister. I am confused, but, as you know, that happens quite a lot. The delegation with the Policing Board was that it could have made a decision. The advice received from DFP on 22 February 2011 clearly affirmed the DOJ's understanding that:”
“I support the call to support as many people as possible to live within the area. Let us look at the plans. Any town in Tyrone should have something similar whereby land and housing availability are looked at. I support that call this evening. I hope that the Minister will be able to give us something positive to take back on spatial development in the future, not just to Carrickmore but to the other small towns in County Tyrone.”
“<BR /> <BR />I fear that today, the Minister will attempt to pass this back to councils. He looks quite startled, but he looks like that all the time. Maybe it is this space that does it, Minister. <BR /> <BR />The council has responsibility for planning issues. The council will make its decisions, but will do so on the plans that are given to it, perhaps by the Department. We need to see a review of the planning system in Northern Ireland to take into account the fact that people want to remain in their local areas. People from Carrickmore do not want to have to go and live in Omagh. They do not want to go and live in Dungannon. They want to live in Carrickmore, as people in Fintona want to live in Fintona; people in Drumquin want to live in Drumquin, and so on.”
“Mr McElduff is a Carrickmore man, and over the years that I have known him, both as a member of Omagh District Council and of this Chamber, he has been very proud of his association with that town, and rightly so. It should be permissible for people to live in the area that they were brought up in. <BR /> <BR />Reference has been made to the Omagh area plan, the west Tyrone area plan, the local development plan, and plans about plans about plans. Reference has been made to PPS 21. As you know, my colleague Councillor Bert Wilson was the champion of PPS 21 when he was chairman of the council. He fought very hard to try to get many of these rural issues resolved, because we have many issues in the former Omagh District Council area whereby people want to live in the country and have not been able to do so.”
“<BR /> <BR />As the Member knows, I have attended the Patrician centre on several occasions; I have also attended events at the Dean Maguirc school and have always been made very welcome. There is no doubt that anyone who travels through the town will always see activity; it is a very busy town. There is no doubt that, in County Tyrone, most people want to live near their home place. I am an Omagh man, and I have always wanted to live in or near Omagh.”
“When I first read what the Adjournment debate was about, I presumed that Mr McElduff was going to go to space, but then I read a little bit more, and I read that it was the Carrickmore area, so my plans of sending you to the moon have failed. In all seriousness, there is no doubt that this is an important issue in Tyrone generally, because we have quite a few small towns that face a similar issue. I am sure that there may be residents in Carrickmore who would be surprised to find a unionist in the Chamber this evening supporting your call, because clearly — it is an accepted fact — Carrickmore is not a unionist area. However, that is not what we are looking at. We are not looking at internal politics; we are looking at the need for housing.”
“The Minister touched on my supplementary question when he referred to the ownership of the buildings. Will ownership of the buildings being provided by the state remain with the state? Alternatively, will the sale of the sites be used to subsidise the building works?”
“The Minister, I am sure, will be aware of my listed question about the Lisanelly campus. That question will stay in the Order Paper.”
“Has the Minister considered refurbishing any other libraries in the Belfast area? I heard her briefly mention the business plan. Does that include other Belfast libraries?”
“If the Members opposite are really concerned about the resources available to the Justice Minister, then they should take immediate action to end the disgraceful situation whereby, as a result of Sinn Féin's refusal to stick to the Stormont House Agreement and to the deal on welfare reform, we are losing £100 million a year in Treasury fines.”
“Why do these people not make themselves available to go before the Coroners' Court and say what they did; or, as Mrs Kelly has suggested, perhaps they are hanging their heads in shame.”
“It is important that, from the safety of nearly 40 years thence, we do all that we can to establish what information was available to the security authorities that could have prevented this atrocity in any way. <BR /> <BR />Perhaps also those members of Sinn Féin who still have associations with the Provisional IRA, or know of those who served in the Provisional IRA, will ask those people to bring forward their evidence. Let the coroners hear what they did and when they did it. There are often calls for police officers and members of the security forces to come before courts. There is mention made of basic facts that are already known. Well, a lot of basic facts are already known about other cases involving republicans. Even names are in the ether.”
“It was a cold-blooded massacre of innocents for no reason other than that they were Protestant. Nobody from the other side of the Chamber on the Sinn Féin Benches can deny that. Nobody from the other side of the Chamber on the Sinn Féin Benches can actually justify that killing. It was a cold-blooded murder. So, there was no Ireland of equals for them. <BR /> <BR />Having lived through that era, I fully understand the circumstances in which the security forces were forced to operate throughout Northern Ireland, given the levels of threat posed by terrorists and the sheer scale of their activities. Certainly, in south Armagh in 1976 they were severely stretched.”
“My colleague Danny Kennedy has been working with the families of those murdered at Kingsmills who have seen many delays in the inquest. I apologise to the House for the absence of Mr Kennedy: he is unwell and I have been asked to represent him. Next year will mark the fortieth anniversary of the massacre, and for the sole survivor, Alan Black, and for the relatives and families involved, the case needs to be properly and fully addressed. Full access should be provided to the new coroner or High Court judge of the intelligence records North and South. Some concern has been expressed by the relatives about the quality of such information from the Republic of Ireland, despite the personal assurances of Enda Kenny, who has met the families on two occasions. <BR /> <BR />This was a brutal murder carried out by the IRA.”
“The state was responsible for no more than 10% of over 3,000 killings, and few of those were actually contested. Mistakes were made, but they were just that: mistakes, unlike the actions of terrorists of all shades who set out to deliberately commit murder. <BR /> <BR />Again, at this stage, I go slightly off speech. Many references have been made to the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). I remind every Member in the Chamber that the most basic human right is that to life, and that right was removed for over 3,000 people in Northern Ireland. Let us remember that first: the most important right under the ECHR is the right to life. <BR /> <BR />One of the coroner's cases with which I have more than a passing acquaintance is the Kingsmills massacre; it is, indeed, one of the few cases not, allegedly, a state killing.”
“<BR /> <BR />My party and I have long been concerned about the efforts of some to rewrite history, a process already referred to by Mrs Kelly. We have raised this issue consistently in both the Haass and Stormont House talks processes and will continue to do that for as long as it takes. We had concerns about each of them and, in relation to the legacy Coroners' Courts, we were concerned at the tendency to focus on controversial killings arising from the actions of the police and army. In particular, we are concerned that the public tends to judge investigations against contemporary standards, without due regard to the near impossible investigatory conditions of the time. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party will not permit a rewriting of the history of the Troubles.”
“Like the Member who spoke previously, I will go off script before I start. During her speech, Ms McGahan said: "deny, deny, deny". I remind you of the murders of Jean McConville, Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn. "Deny, deny, deny". The IRA denied involvement, and your party leader denied the involvement of the IRA. <BR /> <BR />However, as has already been said, this is an important debate on a subject that affects many people. As my party colleague Neil Somerville highlighted, the Ulster Unionist Party has been concerned with delays in the justice system, including those relating to the Coroners Service. Many of the legacy cases currently in the queue to be dealt with by the coroner date back to the 1970s.”
“We want to see the police anywhere and everywhere, and we want to get as much support as possible for the police from the community.”
“We want to see that unit retained in Fermanagh, because it is necessary. We have far too many people taking to the roads who assume that they can do what they like. <BR /> <BR />Police officers are accountable. They are more accountable now than they have ever been: they can be reported to the ombudsman, or, as the Member has suggested, the local officers can be contacted. He said that certain officers cannot be identified but, within the neighbourhood unit, as he well knows, he can go up to the rank of inspector. The Member mentioned having a meeting with the chief superintendent: that door is open to him, and that is his opportunity to bring forward any complaints. <BR /> <BR />I thank my colleague for tabling this topic for the debate; I am glad that I stayed behind to participate in it.”
“They, too, can be disciplined, but that is the way that the service works. We have a police service that is there to defend and protect all. <BR /> <BR />I agree that rural crime is a major issue. Rural crime in the Clogher valley has had a major knock-on effect in my constituency of West Tyrone. My solution is quite simple: we should improve and we should attract part-time police officers from the area in which they live, because they will have stronger local knowledge than any police officer who comes in from outside, but that is a debate for another day. Crime is crime is crime, and we want to see police officers doing their job and taking people to court. <BR /> <BR />I support the call for the retention of the roads protection unit. I believe that it will stay, because I met the assistant chief constables to discuss the issue.”
“There was an attempt to murder farmers who lived along the border, and that fear still exists. There are farmers in that area of County Fermanagh and County Tyrone who served in the security forces and still believe that there is a threat to their life. Dissident republican activity does not help us to come to a normal society, so there is a need for a TSG, whether it is based in Fermanagh or Tyrone, because we have to have a police service that can react. <BR /> <BR />Mr Flanagan referred to some police officers whom he described as lazy. That is an intolerable position. If there is a serving police officer who is lazy, he should be removed, and that is what the force can do. There are police officers who are occasionally slovenly and might appear without their tie.”
“Regardless of whether you are Protestant or Catholic, a believer or non-believer, black, white or whatever colour you want to be, you should be part of the community, and the police are part of that community. Quite a few police officers live in County Fermanagh and have done so over the years. Local policing means local knowledge, and there is no doubt that the police must work with the community. <BR /> <BR />Community justice was mentioned. Sometimes, community justice has meant people having their kneecaps shot off or being shot in the legs, the knees, through the hands and, later, through the head, so we know what some forms of community justice can entail. We are dealing with a society coming towards peace, but we must bear in mind that, in Fermanagh particularly, there was an attempt at ethnic cleansing.”
“It is very appropriate that I am taking part in the debate, given that I was away at the weekend attending the National Police Memorial Day service in Edinburgh, which paid tribute to all police officers throughout the United Kingdom who lost their life whilst serving the community. We should always remember that. Whether it is the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the Royal Ulster Constabulary or, indeed, even an Garda Síochána, anyone who serves as a police officer should be respected by the community. <BR /> <BR />Mr Flanagan referred to his community. I would have thought that, in Northern Ireland, everybody was part of the community.”
“As a unionist, I am delighted to be here today to support the motion. I remind the city of Londonderry not to forget the town of Strabane, which is an integral part of Derry City and Strabane District Council.”
“<BR /> <BR />If, in applying for and gaining a city deal for the north-west, we can start to change the record and tackle the long-term and deep-seated problems of intergenerational unemployment, youth unemployment and economic inactivity in the north-west, we will support it. We need to free up the entrepreneurial instincts of our people and allow the private sector to grow and prosper.”
“<BR /> <BR />The official economic statistics are not good. The figures for August relating to the claimant count, which consists of all people claiming jobseeker's allowance at jobs and benefits offices, show that the new Derry City and Strabane District Council area has the highest rate — 7·1% — in Northern Ireland. In the nearby Mid Ulster District Council area, the claimant count rate is 2·5%, while the Northern Ireland average is 4·7%. Historically, that pattern is deeply ingrained. Over the 30-plus years of the claimant count being the standard measurement of unemployment rates, fluctuations in the north-west have closely mirrored Northern Ireland trends. Strabane and Londonderry have always been above the average. In 1992, average unemployment for Northern Ireland was 10·7%, with 15% in Londonderry and 15·3% in Strabane.”
“<BR /> <BR />I respectfully point out that the new council in the north-west has, in my opinion, not been covering itself in glory during the relatively short time that it has been in existence. Its record thus far on inclusiveness and partnership has been less than stellar, and I know that my party colleagues in the new Derry and Strabane council have been struggling to get their voices heard. <BR /> <BR />We also need to be mindful of the continual difficulties with and the recent debate in the media about the management and role of Ilex, the urban regeneration company for Londonderry. Ilex produced the One Plan referred to in the motion. Remember that One City, One Plan, One Voice aimed to be the plan to end all plans. We have had plans, strategies, reports and committees, but, at the end of the day, we need delivery.”
“It is high time that civic leaders in the north-west stepped up to the mark, prioritised elements of the One Plan and kick-started the transformation of the economy in the Maiden City and its hinterlands, including Strabane. <BR /> <BR />There is, however, a problem that we need to consider. A city deal needs a delivery body. Despite the recent reform of the public administration process, local government in Northern Ireland still has considerably fewer powers than its compatriots in the rest of the United Kingdom and does not have direct responsibility for things like transport, infrastructure and housing. Stormont and Stormont Departments have a key role to play in the delivery, possibly in conjunction with council community planning.”
“They are also designed to empower local leaders and businesses to create local growth and have enabled cities to present their local economic priorities directly to government decision-makers. Departments have committed up to £2·3 billion to the deals, spread over 30 years. So far, as has already been said, city deals have been developed in England and followed by Glasgow, with Cardiff also in the pipeline. It would appear that Northern Ireland needs to play catch-up. <BR /> <BR />As for a potential city deal for the north-west, it seems to me that the ball is firmly in the court of civic leaders in Londonderry and Strabane. They should come to the UK Government with a business plan and make their case.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is interesting to see how the concept of city deals has evolved in past years. The White Paper 'Unlocking Growth in Cities', published in December 2011, led to the Westminster coalition Government's rolling out the first wave of eight city deals in July 2012. The second wave followed in 2013-14 for 18 other urban centres. The basic premise of the policy was to shift responsibility for creating local growth to local leaders and businesses, the buzzword being "localism". The deals so far have been bespoke to each city and covered a range of policies, such as transport, housing and skills. They are designed for cities to develop their capacity to manage devolved funding and to take increased responsibility for economic growth.”
“On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I wish to state our support for the motion despite the fact that it is so long-winded and convoluted that it could have been dreamt up only by a committee. Insofar as the motion calls on relevant agencies to explore the possibilities of a city deal for the north-west and to build on the One Plan document, we fully support it on these Benches. <BR /> <BR />Sometimes it could be argued that debates relevant to the north-west can be parochial, but, in this case, the issue of city deals belongs in the wider context of the devolution and decentralisation of powers throughout the United Kingdom. This is a debate that we in Northern Ireland, not just in the north-west of Northern Ireland, need to have. Speaking as a convinced unionist and devolutionist, I welcome its being on the agenda.”
“What is the Minister's best assessment of the amount by which Northern Ireland is likely to exceed this year's resource allocations if it remains on the current trajectory?”
“You will have to excuse me for not standing up, because, unfortunately, I cannot. I am sure you agree that the Chief Constable, the most senior officer in the Police Service of Northern Ireland, believes that members of the IRA were involved. Are you going to join Sinn Féin and decide that these people are no longer members of the IRA because it suits for them not to be?”
“My final comment relates to the Stormont House Agreement. The agreement was made by yourselves and the DUP. You walked out. You reneged. The whole thing falls on your head.”
“The IRA was involved in this murder, but if it is proved that they are IRA men, they are no longer IRA men. Back to the question: "When is an IRA man not an IRA man?" The answer is this: when he is caught. <BR /> <BR />I am proud to be a member of the Ulster Unionist Party. We were right to withdraw from the Executive, because Sinn Féin cannot be trusted.”
“They haven't gone away, you know. <BR /> <BR />The Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland said that members of the Provisional IRA were involved in this murder. Whether they are acting as the Provisional IRA, they are members of the Provisional IRA. There is a command structure within the Provisional IRA, believed to be up to brigade level. <BR /> <BR />You sit over there and totally deny it. You do not seem to understand what you have created for us. We do not trust a word you say. Why? Because you have lied in the past, you will lie in the future, and you are lying now. There is a direct link between the IRA and this murder, but you cannot be seen to agree with that, because it will bring your whole rotten house down on top of you.”
“PIRA does not exist, and yet its members can take that young man out and kill him in the most horrific way. That is no way to deal with a falling-out; but if you are a member of the Provisional IRA, you can do as you will, because those who serve with you in that disreputable organisation will deny liability. <BR /> <BR />In 2007 following the murder of Paul Quinn, the report of the Independent Monitoring Commission stated that:”
“"Oh no, he wasn't, because Sinn Féin says he wasn't." Then, the IRA admits that it carried out the murder, and who takes the Stack family to meet the IRA but Gerry Adams, the man whose every word uttered is believed by every Member of this House. <BR /> <BR />We then look at the Mairia Cahill affair. "She is lying. She didn't tell him this; she didn't tell him that." The rotten core of Sinn Féin and the IRA unravels. "Let's distance ourselves from it. It wasn't us: it must have been someone else. Mr Adams is whiter than white." <BR /> <BR />Mr Adams tells us that Sinn Féin and the IRA are not associated; they have left the stage. That is absolute nonsense. Tell that to the Quinn family. Paul Quinn was murdered by the Provisional IRA in October 2007. Why? Because he had a run-in with members of PIRA.”
“He then suspended 12 members of Sinn Féin. <BR /> <BR />On 16 February 2005, the IRA issued a statement denying all involvement in the murder and called on the perpetrators to take responsibility. On 8 March 2005, the IRA issued an unprecedented statement saying that four people were directly involved in the murder, that the IRA knew their identities, that two were IRA volunteers and that the IRA had offered to the McCartney family to shoot the people directly involved. Of course, Sinn Féin does not believe that republicans could actually kill people. <BR /> <BR />We heard recently on radio from the family of Brian Stack, a prison officer in the Republic of Ireland murdered in cold blood by the IRA.”
“Mr Kelly referred to a "pseudo crisis" created by unionism. I am sure, Mr Kelly, you will agree that it was not an Ulster Unionist who shot Mr McGuigan. It was somebody from his own community. But let us see how much faith I put in you and your colleagues and the deniability of members of the IRA, because when is a Provo not a Provo? When it suits Sinn Féin. Following the death of Robert McCartney in 2005 Gerry Adams, president of Sinn Féin, urged witnesses to come forward to:”
“I, too, begin by passing my condolences to the Davison and McGuigan families. Reference has been made to the murder of Mr McGuigan, and we all know that it was not a murder; it was a cold act of execution carried out by a terrorist. I stand by the assessment that it was a terrorist, because whoever did it certainly terrorised that community.”
“<BR /> <BR />Terrorists terrorise, and that is what they are there for. They are there to terrorise the community. They have murdered in cold blood these citizens, but what have they done to the people of Tunisia? An awful lot of people will now not go to Tunisia, and nobody is going to encourage people to go to a place where they may get shot. We need to support the people of Tunisia as well. <BR /> <BR />I am appalled at these killings. My sympathy is with the families. They have many cold, dark days ahead. When the bodies are returned, they have days of mourning. I agree with the previous speakers that everyone in the House will send their sympathy to our fellow citizens, whether they be Irish or British.”
“<BR /> <BR />I have said this before in the House, and I hope I never have to say it again: terrorists are cowards. They always have been and always will be cowards. That man arrived with a sub-machine gun and continually shot at people. I am one of those people who would put the car on the roof to avoid a rabbit. How could anybody deliberately go along and shoot people in cold blood? <BR /> <BR />We have seen it in this place in Northern Ireland, and we know the pain that these families are suffering. Thirty British and three Irish, and the Chamber is unique because we are British and Irish. So, 33 of our fellow citizens have been murdered, and for what? Tunisia depends on the tourist industry to make a living. As mentioned, they are a very poor people, and they need the support of tourists.”
“On this occasion, Mr Speaker, I feel it is appropriate that I should stand as a mark of respect to the 30 British and three Irish who lost their life in this ridiculous attack. <BR /> <BR />I thank Mr McNarry for bringing this Matter of the Day to the House. Every time something like this happens, you think how you would react if it was a member of your own family. The reports were coming in on Friday lunchtime, and one of my staff actually said, "Reports are coming in from Tunisia". You hear one dead, two dead, and the figure goes up. <BR /> <BR />One of the first photographs that I saw was of a very good-looking young woman, a nurse, on her holidays. She was out to get a wee bit of sun before she came home and was brutally done to death by a terrorist.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. Will he give more detail on the Transport NI component of the bid?”
“What of the collusion between the IRA and the civilians who identified part-time members of the security forces? Ms Ruane made a comment about truth for all victims: that is what we want. I would love there to be truth for all victims, but as long as people on your side of the House remain silent, Ms Ruane, we will not get it.”
“After all, if collusion with loyalists was widespread, surely the state would not have wanted their agents removed from the stage. <BR /> <BR />Would Sinn Féin recognise the truth? Sinn Féin has proven in the past that it is selective in what it believes. What about collusion between the Republic of Ireland and republicans: the murder of the RUC officers, Mr Breen and Mr Buchanan; the murder of Lord Justice Gibson; the arms trial in the 1970s; the foundation of the Provisionals; the blind eye turned to on-the-runs, training camps etc in the Republic's jurisdiction; and the border campaign, particularly in my constituency of West Tyrone and the Castlederg area, and the relative ease with which the IRA could come and go across the entire region?”