Ross Hussey
West Tyrone · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“For years, I have been asking the police for information on weaponry that has been recovered and its history. For some reason, that information has never been released. Why? Can that weaponry be traced back to the IRA? Is there a possibility that groups that were IRA took their weaponry with them? Of course there is.”
“In my constituency of West Tyrone, and in the neighbouring one of Foyle, the Police Service of Northern Ireland has recovered many weapons and explosives, all belonging to terror groups that do not have the guts to give themselves a name or, at times, call themselves the "Continuity IRA" or whatever.”
“I begin by passing my best wishes to the police officer who was seriously injured last night and to his colleagues in the Police Service of Northern Ireland.”
“I thank the Minister for her response. Previously, I asked the Minister for details of prison officers who had retired as a result of injury on duty and was informed that the information could not be provided, as it was confidential. Can the Minister advise me why it is confidential?”
“I met Mencap yesterday, and we discussed the problems associated with adults with learning disabilities in West Tyrone. The figure is not £8 million: we are possibly talking about £110 million or more that has been underspent in West Tyrone and the Western Health and Social Care Trust.”
“I apologise to the Minister for not being here for the start of her statement, but I have read your statement and was paying attention as you spoke. You referred to paramilitarism and also to forensic services. Clearly, in the Republic of Ireland, quite a few explosive devices and arms caches have been found.”
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“Another explanation may be rather unpalatable to republicans: the IRA and Sinn Féin contained a large number of informants and state agents, and, as a result, the security services were protecting their men and women at the heart of the republican terror machine by directing loyalist killer gangs away from highly placed and valued British agents in the IRA and Sinn Féin. Certainly, if the state was able to direct and facilitate the UDA and the UVF, you would have expected loyalist gunmen in the 1970s and 1980s to manage to take out IRA and Sinn Féin leaders and bring terror to their door, rather than wasting time and effort killing innocent nationalists or the odd IRA foot soldier. The success in prosecuting loyalist terrorists also suggests that they were not acting in concert with the state.”
“If they could not arrest and jail them, what about the allegations of shoot to kill by the security forces? Surely, if collusion was in operation, loyalist terrorists could have been directed to murder high-value targets in the IRA and the wider republican movement, rather than killing so many innocent people when there was no strategic military or political value. Why would the state risk so much for so little reward? <BR /> <BR />One answer may be that there was no great conspiracy and that loyalist murder gangs were acting under their own direction when they targeted low-level republicans and innocent Catholics.”
“Surely the SAS, MI5 and Special Branch would have had ample opportunity to remove key players from the pitch.”
“<BR /> <BR />However, just imagine for a moment that there was a conspiracy. If the might of the British state, ranging from the intelligence services such as MI5, acting alongside the SAS and many regiments comprising tens of thousands of well-trained and well-armed troops, backed up by the RUC, including the famous Special Branch, was indeed able to call on and direct thousands of loyalist paramilitaries to take on the IRA, some questions arise. The first is: how were they so ineffective? How did this vast array of forces managed to miss virtually everyone in the IRA and Sinn Féin leadership? How did so many senior figures manage to avoid jail or death? Some of them, it must be remembered, led curiously charmed lives for over 30 years.”
“No. <BR /> <BR />The existence of files created and held by the state with regard to the police, army and intelligence services means that the media and formal inquiries can gain access to them. The IRA, INLA, UVF and UDA, being illegal terrorist gangs, did not keep records or files — or, as far as we know, they did not. This very fact means that any attempt to investigate the past will inevitably be skewed to investigate the actions of the state, the police and the army. This completely misses the point that in the early 1970s thousands of terrorists spent their waking hours seeking to murder policemen, soldiers and civilians. The focus needs to be on the terrorist godfathers who sent young men and women out on murder missions, rather than on the police and security services who were doing their damnedest to stop them.”
“Terror groups, in contrast, had hundreds of members who, on a daily basis, set out to try to kill people.”
“That is what I intend to deal with and, as has already been mentioned by others, this has been a practice for many years. It was used by the loyalist and republican groupings. <BR /> <BR />Let us look at the context of life in Northern Ireland. During the Troubles, we endured 3,500 deaths, 47,000 injured, 16,000 bombings and 36,000 shooting incidents. The RUC was stretched to breaking point, and it is entirely unfair to judge actions at that time from the relative comfort and safety of the present day. The state did what it did to end violence. It sought to penetrate terror gangs to gather intelligence and thwart their ability to mount operations and take lives. Agents and informers were a necessary part of that, just as they were a necessary part of the FBI's efforts to bring down organised crime in the USA.”
“Today we see Sinn Féin members attempting to cite the BBC and media investigations as evidence of widespread collusion between police and loyalist paramilitaries. They stoically refuse to recognise the role of agents and informers within republican ranks who may have survived the Troubles and may now be in key positions. Stevens, Stalker, Sampson etc, plus de Silva, Nelson and Ballast indicate that something was indeed going on between elements of the security services and some loyalist gangs. Given that the state faced a mass insurrection in the early 1970s and the fact that the use of informants and undercover agents has been a tactic used for hundreds of years, it is not surprising that the state had agents in loyalist and republican groupings. <BR /> <BR />Let us look at the context of life in Northern Ireland in the Troubles—”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to you and your Deputy Speakers for my unavoidable absence at Question Time last Tuesday. I apologise for my absence.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The proposal was not supported by every political party on the Committee. I objected to it.”
“We will not be supporting this motion. Despite the hand that he has been dealt, Danny Kennedy has kept infrastructure projects on track, held off unfair water charges and invested in our rail and bus networks, seeing passenger numbers rise. It is important to note that the motion offers nothing constructive in how the Chair of the Committee thinks the Minister could apply his budget to achieve a different outcome. Perhaps that is asking too much of a party that will, next week, be asking us to abandon reality in favour of voodoo economics.”
“What Minister in the House could not put their hand up and say that that amount of money would have a transformational effect on the Department's ability to deliver services; yet we squander it every week because of the political ambitions of some people in the Chamber.”
“We are all used to the selective memories of Sinn Féin, but surely it is not too difficult for it to recall the mess that Conor Murphy left behind after his time as Minister for Regional Development that Danny Kennedy has done so well to clean up. Indeed, just last week, the Member for East Londonderry Mr Dallat paid tribute to the Minister's revival of the Coleraine to Londonderry rail line after it had been left, as he put it, to wither on the vine by Conor Murphy. How deeply disappointing it is to see that it supports the motion today. However, I am pleased that Mr Dallat does not want the Minister's head. <BR /> <BR />Let us not forget that it is the action, or inaction, of Sinn Féin that will see the financial instability worsen. Its failure to honour its agreement on welfare reform is costing us £2 million a week.”
“He allowed something that was quite clearly an Executive responsibility — he had accepted it as one the previous year and for this financial year — to create a financial pressure point in 2014-15 that drew money away from core services. I would love to be able to quote what the Chair of the Committee had to say about that during the motion that he brought forward, but I cannot, because he did not. Why not? It should have been of great concern that such an unfair and unjust penalty would bring pressure on the Minister's ability to deliver public services, but that would have required criticism of his own Minister, and we know that the DUP does not do that. <BR /> <BR />Who can forget the flurry of petitions of concern and disrupted Committees to save Nelson McCausland's blushes?”
“<BR /> <BR />The targeting of Danny Kennedy is nothing more than a poor attempt to deflect from the gross financial mismanagement by the DUP and Sinn Féin over the last four years, but we have seen that all before. I am sure that Members can remember the DUP's treatment of Michael McGimpsey when he warned that he was not being given enough money to run the health service and of what the future consequences would be, and now we see — as we knew all along — that he was right. <BR /> <BR />The DUP has a track record of playing silly games with Ulster Unionist Ministers. Look at how Simon Hamilton dealt with the £20 million Belfast port money.”
“Before the very Committee that has brought the motion today, he has repeatedly been very clear about the difficult decisions that he would be faced with and the implications for front-line services; yet we have motions like the one brought forward today as though the current situation was a surprise. Who moved the motion? It was the DUP Chair of the Committee — a Member of the party that wants the Assembly to support a phantom budget — a budget that has no basis in reality and is nothing more than a fig leaf. Perhaps his fire-and-brimstone approach is more brimstone; yet he thinks that he can lecture others about fiscal responsibility.”
“I am deeply disappointed that we are debating this motion today. I opposed it at the Committee for Regional Development as it amounts to nothing more than petty party political point scoring. It is utterly ridiculous that the Minister is being hauled in front of the Assembly twice this week and in front of the Committee tomorrow to explain why he has lived within the budget that he was allocated and to reiterate the points that he made time and time again at the Executive, in the Assembly and before the Committee. <BR /> <BR />Danny Kennedy has been unambiguous when highlighting the effects that his budget allocation would have on his Department's ability to deliver front-line services. In fact, he began to outline what it would look like after June monitoring was finally agreed last year.”
“I, too, thank the Minister for his announcement. I know that it will be welcomed by my colleagues in the Foyle constituency and the citizens of Londonderry. I have two questions for the Minister. The first relates to phase 1. Has there been an upsurge in the numbers of the public using the line since phase 1 was completed? Secondly, can you give us an indication of when this project will actually start?”
“I thank the Minister for his response so far. In your response, Minister, you made reference to the BSc(Hons) degree and the MSci in transport planning at UUJ. Is it not the case that those are going to be stopped? Is that not very short-sighted?”
“What about practical? What about common sense? We either get it right now or make a total mess of it. This is not politics; this is playing for the next election. Nobody is paying attention to the needs of the people of Northern Ireland. Sinn Féin plays to the people of the Republic of Ireland, saying, "Look what we did in the North. We hashed it up there." The SDLP is playing for the next Assembly elections, but none of it is for the good of the people of Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I ask Members to seriously consider the good of the people of Northern Ireland and accept the Bill brought forward by the Minister.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thought that a brilliant expression was used earlier:”
“I am sure that the Minister would love to win the National Lottery, and maybe, Minister, based on what I have heard from Mr Attwood, that is what is going to happen. "It could be you"; but I doubt it very much. <BR /> <BR />I have sat here today, and I am not impressed by the options that have been put forward by those on the opposite Benches. We have no option. The safeguards that are built into the Bill are better than those which most people in the United Kingdom have. They are better than most people have in England. Yet we are prepared to ignore all that and allow our Budget to go down the pan. I personally would love to have a situation where everything in the garden is rosy, but we do not have that. There is no money to hand out willy-nilly. There are no more buckets and no more begging bowls. It is time for tough decisions.”
“I really do not know where Mr Attwood thought we were going to go in two months, because it is quite clear that this Welfare Reform Bill is here today. It either passes today, or there is no Welfare Reform Bill. <BR /> <BR />It is not often that I quote Sammy Wilson — it is not often that I agree with him — but he made it very clear that this is it. The Minister has made it clear that this is it. We take it or leave it, but we leave it with the possibility of major problems for the Budget in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />However, it can all be resolved in two months. Somehow or other, money is going to appear from nowhere. Has somebody bought a National Lottery ticket and not told us?”
“We all know that, had a Labour Government been returned, there were going to be changes, not for the good of the people of Northern Ireland, but these things are going to happen because we are part of the United Kingdom and must accept the Budget that we are allocated. <BR /> <BR />We are certainly coming out of conflict and having major issues. Mike Nesbitt made reference to the fact that there are those who suffer from mental health issues. The Stormont House Agreement was a jigsaw, and, unfortunately, that jigsaw is falling to pieces in front of us. Not one representative on the opposite Benches has said anything that does anything for the good of the people of Northern Ireland. Heads are being buried in the sand.”
“The £2 million a week that we are returning to the British Government would be wonderful to give to the independent advice services. How many independent advice services or citizens advice bureaux would dance if they were offered that sort of money? Yet, we are handing it back. <BR /> <BR />This morning, the deputy First Minister said that the Bill, by going ahead, punishes the poor. Sinn Féin's lack of moral accountability is punishing the poor. Martin McGuinness said that there are huge challenges, not just welfare. The implementation of further cuts is threatened by the Tories, and yet Sinn Féin will not take a seat in the House of Commons to challenge the Tories or anybody else.”
“What if the Chancellor does this? What if the Chancellor does that? <BR /> <BR />Again, in Westminster, my Member of Parliament will make the following speech — <BR /> <BR />I could almost write it, word for word. I will do it again — <BR /> <BR />He will not be there to represent me. <BR /> <BR />They have the hypocrisy to sit in this Chamber and talk about Tory cuts. There are four extra votes for the Conservative Government because members of Sinn Féin will not take their seats. They do not have the opportunity to take the seat in Fermanagh and South Tyrone because it is now taken by an Ulster Unionist. <BR /> <BR />We hear various things in relation to independent advice and, perhaps, to the independent advice services that we have.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am going to quote from the speech made by Pat Doherty, the Member of Parliament for West Tyrone, on welfare reform in the House of Commons — <BR /> <BR />I am now going to quote from the speech made by Conor Murphy, the Member of Parliament in the House of Commons — <BR /> <BR />This is how much interest Sinn Féin had for those who voted for them to represent us in Westminster. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin talks about power-sharing. It talks of power-sharing, but it does not want to share power. It talks of agreements. The Stormont House Agreement was an agreement between political parties. What happened when the agreement was made? They reneged. We had speeches here, this afternoon and this morning, talking of "whatiffery". In Northern Ireland, we often hear speeches on "whataboutery". This time, it is "whatiffery".”
“Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I have sat here this afternoon and this morning and listened to various speeches. The thing we have to remember is that we are part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. That is where we are; that is the political reality. The British Government decide how much money is going to come to Northern Ireland. There is not a bottomless pit; there is not a bucket of money that we can go to and take out of every time we want it. We should realise that, and we know that. Anyone who was starting from the beginning with a bottomless pit would, certainly, be looking for a much-improved welfare payment scheme, but, unfortunately, we do not have that.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. We all know of the problems that we face in view of the political intransigence we face over welfare reform. If the legislation gets passed, how quickly do you think we will be able to move to have this — my mind has gone blank — pilot scheme in place?”
“Like Mr Dallat, I pay tribute to the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service. I had the misfortune of having to travel recently in an ambulance with my late mother to the South West Acute Hospital. The paramedics who dealt with my mother were excellent. <BR /> <BR />Does the Minister know how much compulsory overtime ambulance drivers and paramedics have to undertake because of the 98 paramedic vacancies, or whatever number it is?”
“Again, I thank Mr Middleton for bringing this to the House this afternoon, and I thank the Minister for his attendance.”
“In one, it was mentioned that each year around 300 people commit suicide in Northern Ireland, with the figure increasing every year since 2006. Some 72 teens and young men took their own lives in Northern Ireland in 2011, while 165 died by suicide in the Republic. A report by the Samaritans shows that the age range starts at 10 to 14 and that the majority of the people who commit suicide are between 16 and 40. We know all these facts and figures, but that does not bring us to a resolution. <BR /> <BR />Mental health issues have been raised, and people will say that suicide is caused by a mental health disorder. That is perhaps the case at the point when they commit suicide, but, up to that point, it is invisible and will not be seen.”
“Therefore, we have the various strategies. There is the shOUT report, 'The Needs of Young People in Northern Ireland who Identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and/or Transgender'. It says that they are at least three times more likely to commit suicide or to attempt suicide, two and a half times more likely to self-harm, five times more likely to suffer from depression and 20 times more likely to suffer from an eating disorder than their heterosexual counterparts. Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NISRA) figures show that, in 2013, 14,968 deaths were registered in Northern Ireland and that, of these, 303 were suicides, the second-highest number on record in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I looked at some of the debates that have taken place in the Chamber.”
“We will see that more and more as post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) sets in to members of the security forces, for example, or perhaps to those who were involved in various actions over the years. People then have time to reflect, and some of their actions or some of the things they have seen come back to haunt them. <BR /> <BR />Sexuality is another one of the points that can cause someone to decide to commit suicide. I had a look at the Rainbow Project, which is based in Londonderry and in Belfast, because I decided when I was going to research this that I was going to look up as many documents as I could. It has a very interesting document by Malachai O’Hara called 'Through Our Minds: Exploring the Emotional Health and Well Being of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender People in Northern Ireland'. It states:”
“I have spoken to people who attempted suicide, and they will tell you that at the point when they make their mind up to commit suicide, everything in their world is rosy. They have dealt with all the issues in their head. Therefore, they have tidied everything away, and suicide is the option; they are gone. Of course, for those who are left behind, it is a horrible experience. My mother, who recently passed away, took the concern she had over my brother's death to her grave. What if she had done something else? My mother could not have stopped it. Nobody could have stopped it; but that stays with the family. <BR /> <BR />What are the causes? If we knew all the causes, we would know all the answers. Certainly, bullying is one of them. There are also legal highs, alcohol, depression, debt, marriage breakdown and work-related issues.”
“I, too, welcome Mr Middleton to the House and thank him for bringing this subject to the Floor. <BR /> <BR />Like Mr Durkan's, my family has experienced suicide. That word on its own puts a shiver down your spine. I welcome the Health Minister here today and wish him well in his new role. <BR /> <BR />Is suicide preventable? In some cases, the answer is no, and we have to accept that. Yes, we want a suicide prevention strategy, but we have looked at that over the years. I have quite a few documents here. I will not read them all, Mr Deputy Speaker, as you have given me only five minutes, but I will do my best to get through as many as I can. <BR /> <BR />Is it a mental health disorder? Is it identifiable? Can you point at somebody and say, "Well, that person may or may not commit suicide"? You simply cannot do it.”
“Nothing can come out of this for the good of politics; nothing can come out of this for the good of the DUP. I therefore urge the members of the DUP to reconsider their position. The facts were clear and the jury has found the Minister in the wrong. Mr Brimstone, with his memory lapses and responses of "I cannot say", was nothing short of a disgrace. If I were on the jury, I know what side I would be on. I find them guilty of a complete disregard of this Assembly and its workings.”
“<BR /> <BR />Nobody from the DUP comes out of this with credit — not one of the Members involved. I was involved in the BBC programme, and I was shown an awful lot of documentation. I, as a member of the public, who was not a member of the Committee for Social Development, was totally appalled at what I saw. Anybody who saw the programme or who has watched the proceedings knows what is going on here. The phrase, "circling the wagons" has been used. Certainly, it appears to be a Custer's last stand in relation to Mr McCausland. He certainly does not come out of this with any credit at all. <BR /> <BR />Clearly, attempts have been made to provide a cover-up. The minority report is a joke. It is a joke because it is an attempt by the DUP to cover up maladministration.”
“Once again, we have listened to the report on Red Sky. At the time, I said that a red sky in the morning should be a shepherd's warning, and it is quite clear that some Members did not take the warning. Jenny Palmer, throughout the entire investigation, came across most clearly as the person who was willing to give evidence against the DUP. What was the reward for her honesty? She is to face disciplinary action. It was quite clear to anybody who watched the proceedings, whether on a television screen or in this Building, that there was, to repeat the expression that was used, stonewalling. Mr Allister was verbally abused; expressions were used towards him that were totally unparliamentary. Attempts were made to cover up what was clear for everyone to see.”
“Mr Speaker, do you mind if I remain seated?”
“Where is the justice for the people of Banbridge if the Minister cannot even come here to make a statement? Yes, the Chief Constable is ultimately responsible for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, but he is not being given the budget. That is another major issue. Yes, £14 million was handed back. That is ridiculous. It is ridiculous that £14 million had to be handed back, but that was because he is unable to carry money forward. That is because of a ridiculous situation that exists in our policing legislation. It should be sorted by the Minister of Justice, so that the police can hold such money and use it properly for the people of Northern Ireland — for the people of Banbridge, the people of Upper Bann. Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.”
“<BR /> <BR />This has not been thought out, and it cannot be forced on a community without some form of consultation. Successful policing has been seen to happen in Banbridge. Successful policing is there because of the fact it has a relatively low crime level. Take away the police and what do you have? You basically have an open door for criminals, drug pushers and that ilk who want to use this. I have major concerns for the safety of the people of Banbridge, and I am prepared to sit here tonight with my colleague. I agree with others who have said there should be more in the Chamber. This is not just about Banbridge or Upper Bann. It is about policing in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />It is a disgrace that we do not have a Minister here to make a response. The Minister is, supposedly, the Minister of Justice.”
“Criminals will prosper if there is no police activity or sign of police activity. We have made reference to Patten several times during the debate. During the Patten proposals, there were, of course, proposals to extend part-time police officers. We do not have an extension of part-time police officers; in fact, part-time police officers are virtually disappearing. We need policing with the community and in the community. If the officers are not known to the locals, they will not have a rapport, and they will not speak to them or pass on information. One of the last debates I took part in on policing, Mr Deputy Speaker, related to your constituency, when we were talking about the police having to go down the glens of Antrim from Ballymena.”
“<BR /> <BR />If you want to make a quick getaway out of Banbridge, the A1 is the way to go. You can be in Newry before you know it; you can be in Belfast before you know it; you can be totally out of sight very quickly. Sometimes, good roads create problems of their own and, certainly, the A1 is a major issue. <BR /> <BR />I also have concerns in relation to road traffic accidents. We have had major accidents and fatalities on the A1. We need to have the police there quickly. If they have to travel from Lurgan in an armoured car, there is a speed limit within which they can travel, and then they have to get an ordinary police car to that point. It is a ridiculous situation that I do not want to see. <BR /> <BR />The drugs issue is also a major one. None of us wants to see criminals prosper.”
“We are going to set up patterns. To a certain degree, we could have officers targeted because of these changes. We all know that the dissidents have not gone away, and we all know that the dissidents have already murdered police officers in this constituency. We have to remember that a police officer is on duty 24 hours a day. None of us wants to walk behind another cortège of a police officer going to his grave, having served this community. <BR /> <BR />The area that we are talking about is very rural. One of the things that sticks in my mind is the number of thefts of agricultural equipment and machinery that there have been. I asked questions on that of the police at the Policing Board. It was fascinating to discover the number of implements and vehicles that had been stolen and never recovered.”
“It does not make sense to me from a security point of view — I will deal with that first — why we would send officers from Lurgan towards Banbridge in an armoured police car.”
“I am sure that Members are wondering why I have taken some time to sit here this evening and participate in the debate. I will begin by declaring an interest as a member of the Policing Board and as a former member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary Reserve and the Police Service of Northern Ireland, where I served as a part-time officer. <BR /> <BR />When you hear about the proposals, they do not make sense. In my career, when I worked with Pearl Assurance, I travelled all over Northern Ireland. I know the area that we are talking about very well. I travelled regularly from Belfast to Newry and from Newry to Portadown up into Rathfriland, which is the area that we are talking about.”
“I am sure that the Member will accept that the city of Londonderry, Strabane, Omagh and that entire area was targeted and destroyed by the IRA over a prolonged period. A lot of the problems that we face today were caused by the IRA and its terrorist attacks in the city of Londonderry and beyond.”
“— by most of the Members in the Assembly simply does not allow it to be implemented at this time.”
“Clearly, this is a difficult time for higher education right across Northern Ireland, not just the north-west. Whilst the Ulster Unionist Party wants to see this expansion, and supports the sentiments contained in the motion, the stark reality is that the Budget that has just been agreed —”