Claire Hanna
South Belfast · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his answers so far and for the announcement of the inquiry. In common with other Opposition parties, we have been calling for a long number of weeks for an inquiry under the 2005 Act. I am glad of the acknowledgement of that.”
“My question was about a contingency or plan B, as the challenge was entirely foreseeable. Has the Minister given any thought to publishing an anonymised list? Such a list could contain some geographical detail, the date, the output and the payment, so that we can get a sense of the levels of applicants that are credible and not credible.”
“— it is so important we let the people who have put all those qualities into the public discourse know they have been validated and that the redress they are entitled to is delivered to them.”
“I thank all those who have spoken. Like others, I attended the launch of the report on Friday and have spent some time since reading it. I think that, for everybody there, it was a very difficult few hours — even for those of us who did not live through those experiences.”
“<BR /> <BR />Colin McGrath, when moving the motion, referred to the appalling shooting last night of a public servant and member of the PSNI as an illustration of what we have failed to eliminate and what we are definitely not returning to, but, as we said, that opportunity has been squandered.”
“<BR /> <BR />Colin McGrath made the point that, despite the disappointment and the stop and start of progress, if we found ourselves 20 years back, we would still push to try and deliver the Good Friday Agreement, because the fact is the that core analysis of John Hume's three strands still stands.”
The complete record
Every one of 479 lines we hold for Claire Hanna, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 9 of 10.
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far. You mentioned that there had been progress on procurement, but are you confident that the revised deadline of 2017 will be met for the vehicles to arrive fully assembled? Is there potential for that new deadline to slip?”
“I am sure that many Members, like me, will not recognise those waiting times and may have been contacted by constituents who are waiting considerably longer. Having come from the voluntary sector, I know that that is not the story that I have heard from people. Can the Minister give an assurance that any further steps to take up processing will be taken, particularly in the case of an urgent job application? I am aware of people who have waited weeks or even months and been unable to take up employment during that time.”
“We have had a lot of good words, particularly about the A5 and A6, but it really is time for meaningful capital investment that will attract and facilitate the sort of 21st-century jobs that we need all across the region and not just in Belfast.”
“<BR /> <BR />There have been some positive announcements on railways, which is in part due to the lobbying of my colleague from East Derry. I am glad that that is back on track, although I believe that a cyclist recently beat the train from Belfast to Derry in an experiment where he decided to see whether he could do that. I do not think that that speaks very well about the quality of the railway. I understand that the Executive have committed £44 million per annum, but, in a 20-year plan, that will equate to £880 million of expenditure for rail, of which £620 million is required for maintenance. That would leave very little investment for trains. <BR /> <BR />I will wrap up by echoing the words of my colleagues.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention, and I agree entirely. <BR /> <BR />The Irish Government have indicated that they are putting the funding back on the table for the A5 in particular. That clearly shows that the ball is back in the Northern Ireland Executive's court to make that project happen. Equally important is the A6. As I said, we have discussed that for 50 years, and we all know the original plan of proper linkages from Belfast to Derry. As I understand it, this project has gone through all its statutory processes. A contractor is in place, and the only thing that is missing is money. Particularly for people in the north-west, it must rank as one of the major failures in devolution that, 15 years into the Assembly and the Ministry having been passed around various parties, that project has not advanced any.”
“Members who have taken that road from Dublin will pass Athenry, and anybody who is a follower of Irish rugby will know about Athenry and its low-lying fields. Athenry is about to be on the end of €850 million of investment from Apple. It is clear to see that it is not very near Dublin geographically, but it has got that because it is accessible from anywhere else on the island. We do not get wins like that and will not get wins like that until we start to invest in the infrastructure. Even if Belfast were getting that number of quality jobs, we could not expect people from Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry to compete on a level playing field for those jobs and be able to raise their families and stay with their families at home until we invest.”
“I am not seeking to undersell my city — it is an advantage that I represent the centre of the universe — but we have to realise that the devolution of corporation tax will only take us so far and that, if we do not join up the other dots and learn the other lessons from the Republic of investing in education and infrastructure as well, it will not make much of a difference. <BR /> <BR />A couple of Members have mentioned infrastructure down South. I am from Galway originally, and we moved to Belfast when I was a child. I am up and down multiple times a year, and, every time I am in Galway, I see the differences in the fortunes of my two home cities and how that region keeps getting economic and investment wins that we just do not get.”
“I would like to take that as a commitment: it sounds like a deal on welfare reform is coming. It is above my pay grade, but, if you are saying that, once welfare reform is resolved, we will have money for this project, I will happily take that as a win. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that, if we do not invest in this infrastructure, we will be back to these issues in years to come. A balanced investment programme will mean that prosperity can, possibly, be spread out across Northern Ireland. Possibly, the foreign direct investment ship has sailed a little bit; we are probably quite late to that. I know that there was some discussion earlier, but attracting it has been a big part of the Executive's economic strategy. We will not be able to expand that if we do not address these issues.”
“The motion is, in some ways, complementary to the motion that we discussed earlier this afternoon and seeks to expand on the same issues. It is clear from both debates that increased and improved transport infrastructure would go a lot of the way towards alleviating some of the imbalances for those outside Belfast who have to deal with it on a daily basis. It is easy for us to get up and ask for funding for this, that and the other project, and I know that the budget is not in place to dole out money for everything, but these are not new requests. With respect, the welfare reform issue has been a problem for the last year but, particularly with regard to the Derry road, these are proposals that have been on the table for 50 years, and we did not necessarily have welfare reform as the block —”
“With all that in mind, does the Minister regret his earlier statement about the certainty of that funding, which gave considerable comfort to small-scale producers? I appreciate that there are mitigating circumstances in the UK-wide context, but can he outline what, specifically, he will be able to do to help that sector recover?”
“I thank the junior Minister for her answers so far. You have referenced the pressure on the existing sector providing for refugees and asylum seekers who are already here and the concerns about the lack of an integration strategy, which means that each new arriver is having to reinvent the wheel. Is there any more funding for existing groups providing existing services? Is it likely that Northern Ireland will be open to receiving more refugees after this initial tranche?”
“Perhaps if you are an accountant or someone trained in those issues, you will not, but most small businesses find its processes opaque.”
“I have dealt with a number of cases, including one that nearly closed a small business due to a £20,000 overvaluation. I went through the LPS appeal system and your predecessor, and, in the end, it was the ombudsman who reversed the decision and stopped that small business closing. It is not an open-book system: people do not feel that they can accurately calculate what their rates bill will be. From the perspective of a city councillor, from year to year we were unclear of what we were and were not going to get in from LPS and we were presented with substantial overspends and underspends from what we were anticipating from LPS.”
“As I said, I welcome the Minister's paper on it and the consultation, but it is the single greatest lever that the Assembly has. Banks are not lending, due to high rates. Employment is not being created. Entrepreneurship is being stifled. Business rates are perceived as being a form of austerity, the same as public-sector cuts are. We are genuinely stifling economic growth. Obsessing on the value that we might get from a reduction in corporation tax is building castles in the air if we do not change policies to support businesses that are here now.”
“The occupancy level of all high streets for actual ratepayers could be measured for every town, village and area in south Belfast, and any streets that have occupancy levels of below 50% could perhaps be considered for a rates exemption for new businesses in those streets for the next year or two or three, and a rebate could potentially be given to other ratepayers already located in those streets. Mechanisms should be put in place to give demonstrably loss-making businesses a rates holiday if that could help to save the business. Perhaps that is a realistic proposal. Business rates for empty premises could be waived or reduced if somebody has made the effort to let it out at a reduced level. <BR /> <BR />I will finish up by saying that business rates reform is overdue.”
“I hope that we can try to find new ways to incentivise people to do that, which would give vibrancy to our high streets and town centres after 6.00 pm when, traditionally, business owners currently all go back to the suburbs. <BR /> <BR />Sixth, if it is not possible to consider rates reductions, can we give consideration to finding an alternative use for long-term vacant property, and perhaps remove the requirement to go through planning to have a change of use to residential? I believe that that is a policy that is in operation in GB and is helping to remove blighted vacant buildings from high streets.”
“While I accept that there are probably very good reasons for those exemptions to be in place and that you do not want to withdraw them from the businesses that have them, the bottom line is that, when the system has become so onerous that it requires so many exemptions, the slack is obviously being picked up by other businesses and the system is becoming so inconsistent and increasingly illegitimate. <BR /> <BR />Fifth, vacant premises, particularly in town centres, are no good for anybody. I touched on some of the issues around antisocial behaviour that result. One of the attractive features that people will see when they are in mainland Europe is people living above the shop.”
“<BR /> <BR />Third — this is a simple enough one — the rates poundage set by the various councils across the 11 council areas mean that we have 11 different rates for some 6,000 square miles. That is silly. It should be capped and consistent across Northern Ireland. It should possibly be capped at a similar rate to GB. <BR /> <BR />Fourth, there needs to be a hard and probably quite uncomfortable look at some of the rating exemptions that are currently in place. Of 73,000 business premises subject to rates, 10,000 are fully exempt from rates.”
“Second, there needs to be a ministerial policy change in relation to the actions of LPS to make it less aggressive in its NAV assessments and revise the majority of NAVs to the rents actually payable on the property, rather than selectively choosing rental deals that were struck possibly at the top of the property boom as supporting evidence. That will need LPS to be considerably more transparent and more open-book with the information that it makes available. It should also be said — we have limited control of market value — that many landlords, frankly, are continuing to charge boom-time rents in order not to reduce the perceived value of their property.”
“NAV or affordable market value (AMV) is supposed to be linked to the rents obtained, but LPS is judge, jury and executioner in its own cause, with very limited grounds for appeal. That cannot be right. I am sure that all representatives have had concerns raised with them by local traders about the opaque and, at times, fairly arbitrary processes that LPS seems to have in its decision-making.”
“Regardless of what councils try to do, what I am hearing from businesses is that they feel that the Assembly is ignoring the reality of what is happening and sidestepping the decisions that we need to take to bring entrepreneurs and vibrancy back to our high streets. <BR /> <BR />What can be done? I am sympathetic to a lot of the case that NIIRTA and other representative bodies have made that small businesses are facing a perfect storm of high costs of running their businesses and all the consumer spending pressures that we know exist. I support a lot of their proposals. I also have some of my own, which I will run through now. In the first instance, rates have to be fair and reasonable and, in some way, linked as far as possible to the profitability of the business.”
“I know from growing up in south Belfast that the coffee shops and ice-cream parlours provide the vital shared space that the Assembly insists that it wants to provide, but businesses are thwarted from doing so. Ultimately, dereliction is also providing us with a lower rates income than we would have if those empty premises were trading. <BR /> <BR />Many councils have drawn down funds from OFMDFM to regenerate their town centre streetscapes — that has happened in Belfast too — to try to encourage footfall to return to the shops. I support their efforts. They are trying to use what powers they have to do what they can. However, the problem is that, in many cases, we just have attractive streets with empty shops instead of unattractive streets with empty shops. It is a Northern Ireland version of the Potemkin village.”
“At the same time, we appear to be ignoring the fact that our policies are driving people out of town centres. Put simply, the annual NAV — more precisely, the antecedent valuation date (AVD) of the rental valuation of property as at 1 April — has been set far too high by LPS. <BR /> <BR />I want to touch briefly on the collateral and wider damage that occurs when a business shuts. It is not just the jobs that are lost when the shutters come down. There is a stifling of investment and destruction of the value of assets. Owning commercial property is now looked on almost as a financial liability by most banks and as impaired security for lending. More broadly, however, the nearby communities suffer the ill effects. Councils have to pick up the tab for dereliction, vandalism and related antisocial behaviour, and street renovation.”
“Its business rates are €120,000, which equates to roughly £90,000. The difference is a massive £165,000. In Scotland, a business located in a premises with an annual NAV of £10,000 will not pay any rates. A comparable business here will pay between £4,100 and £4,760, depending on which council area it is located in. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that the Minister will agree that that is a heavy financial burden for any business. It goes some way to explaining not only the proliferation of vacant shops but the low level of business start-ups when compared with our neighbours across the water and down South. We now have the situation that, in Britain and the Republic, central and local government are proactively trying to implement innovative ways to attract business start-ups into town centres to regenerate and revitalise neighbourhoods.”
“In my constituency, a fairly upmarket furniture shop opened about 10 years ago and closed this year. I was told — I have been trying to confirm this — that, in the shop's last year of trading, its combined rent and rates bill was £240,000 a year, or £4,600 a week. I am advised that a small, family-owned food business elsewhere in my constituency has the same rates bill as quite a large, metro-style chain supermarket less than half a mile up the same road. In a city outside of Belfast, the owners of a hotel — a family business — pay business rates of £255,692 per annum, which is just short of £5,000 a week. I was given a direct comparison between that hotel, which has 110 bedrooms, and a 100-bedroom hotel in a town in the midlands down South that has full conference facilities, a nightclub, a pub and a leisure centre.”
“<BR /> <BR />On Saturday past, I walked the length of the Lisburn Road, which is less than two miles from the King's Hall to Bradbury Place. I counted seven charity shops in operation, and no fewer than 42 business properties, retail and office accommodation, that were for sale or rent. They were vacant in one way or another, including substantial properties, such as the former Majestic cinema and the Malone Exchange, probably in excess of 2,000 square metres. <BR /> <BR />I want to give a few examples of the effects of rate and rent issues, and some of the anomalies that have been raised with me in south Belfast and further afield.”
“That is an absolutely unsustainable burden for many and has contributed directly to the proliferation of boarded-up shop fronts and of charity shops, which are, of course, tax exempt. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland has one of the lowest numbers of businesses per 10,000 of the population and has experienced a 2% fall in the number of businesses since 2010, compared with a 10% increase in, for example, the south of England. We are not helping to foster an entrepreneurial culture because it is immensely difficult for a start-up business to locate in any of our towns or local shopping stretches because of business rates and the fact that, quite simply, many banks will just not lend to a business start-up that hopes to trade on a high street.”
“<BR /> <BR />Depending on which of the 11 council areas a business is located, rates vary from 51·66p to 59·5p in the pound compared with 48·2p in England. That means that in Northern Ireland, some businesses are dealing with 20% higher rates than a comparable business in comparable premises across the water. That is in addition to the other costs of doing business in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />Land and Property Services (LPS) now typically demands anywhere from £5,000 to £10,000 in rates to trade in an average-size shop or office in any town centre or on any main street in Northern Ireland, regardless of the trade or profitability of the business being undertaken, or indeed of the office or charity. Anybody who has attempted to open a constituency office will know that.”
“The situation with business rates, as I am sure you have heard from constituents, significantly worsened for many post-revaluation in 2015, implemented from this April. We were told that it was to be a revenue-neutral exercise, but it has thrown up incredible anomalies in rate collection. <BR /> <BR />The Northern Ireland Independent Retail Trade Association (NIIRTA) claims that 45% of its members saw their rate bills increase from between 20% and 200%, which, I think everyone would agree, is an absurd and unjustifiable variation. The net asset values (NAVs) for many properties have been set so high that businesses in south Belfast cannot benefit from the small business rates relief designed to help them.”
“<BR /> <BR />In south Belfast, we reputedly have the most sought-after retail location outside the city centre, namely the Lisburn Road, which is followed, not too far behind, by the Ormeau Road. Like all retail outlets in every city and town in these islands, the Lisburn Road, Ormeau Road, as well as Finaghy, Carryduff, Saintfield Road, Botanic and all other clusters of businesses are under unprecedented economic pressure and face substantial decline. <BR /> <BR />We know the reasons for that: changes in shopping patterns, the growth of online and out-of-town shopping, and various parking and traffic issues. All those factors have put traditional high street shopping under stress. However, the biggest single factor over which we have control and can do something about is unaffordable business rates.”
“We have the absurd position that parties are lobbying for the right to give a preferential rate of tax on businesses, which may or may not come to Northern Ireland, while government is perceived to be ignoring the businesses in our town centres and on our high streets that have been here for decades, are creating a substantial number of local jobs, and are owned by local people. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to rehearse too much the complaints that have been often made in the Assembly about the decline of the retail sector and traditional high street shopping. I have lived in south Belfast since the age of three. I grew up about 30 metres from the Lisburn Road and had my first taste of the working world in a newsagent and restaurant there, neither of which, unfortunately, survived the downturn.”
“With the proposals that I am making, I acknowledge that we cannot propose to recommend rates relief unless we can balance it with some compensating revenue-raising measures. All the parties in the Assembly, including my own, have been united in demanding that Westminster devolve the power to reduce corporation tax in order to be competitive with the Republic and to attract foreign direct investment. It is my personal belief, and it is on the record, that the ship of foreign direct investment has probably sailed and that we are too late for that party.”
“I thank the Minister, in particular, for her presence in the Chamber, and I acknowledge the publication last week, post my tabling of this debate, of her Department's review of the non-domestic rating system and the useful information contained in it. This is definitely the graveyard shift and I feel that I should possibly just email you and let everybody get away, but we will go through the motions anyway. I apologise on behalf of my colleague Fearghal McKinney; he has had to travel to Ballymena. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we, in the Assembly, get to grips with the form of taxation over which we already have control, namely domestic and non-domestic rates, which, between them, raise £1·17 billion annually.”
“I thank the Minister for his report. My colleague Alban Maginness is unavailable. Will you give us an assessment of the impact that you suspect the cutbacks might have on the advice sector?”
“On the back of that, the angling clubs are concerned that there is miscommunication between DARD, DCAL and them. Has the Minister any suggestions on what mechanisms might be put in place to address that communications imbalance?”
“Yes, it will. The faith that I belong to, for example, does not allow people who are divorced to be married, and it has not been forced into doing that. <BR /> <BR />I want all Members to engage on the issue. They should engage with the testimony that they have no doubt received from people. I understand that people are struggling with their faith, but I hope that they will, in time, realise that many others have seen that it is entirely compatible with Christian values of love and compassion.”
“I do not want to be in a party or a society that does not allow such dissent in people's views. <BR /> <BR />I commend the people in my party who have a different view. While I fundamentally disagree with it, particularly when they have set out their case, I respect their right to do so.”
“I think that it is. Polling shows that over two thirds of people support marriage equality, with a smaller number who have not made up their mind but are not opposed yet. <BR /> <BR />The separate but equal argument is that people should be happy with civil partnership. I ask Members who are married whether they would be happy to downgrade their marriage to a civil partnership if they think that it is fundamentally acceptable and that it gives people the same expression of their relationship. <BR /> <BR />I want to be very clear that I do not want any Member to feel coerced into voting for this. I believe very strongly in persuasion and not persecution. God knows, unless you are a clone — I am not suggesting that anybody in the Chamber is — at some point, we will all have an issue on which we will be at odds with our party.”
“I had over 700 emails on the issue, and I know, from the messages, names and addresses, that it is not just a young person's issue; it is not a unionist or nationalist issue; it is not a religious or non-religious issue; and it is not a left/right issue. Opinions across the board believe that we should change our view. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland is now the only part of these islands in which your marriage is invalid if you are gay. We have to clear that up. If somebody is married in Dublin or London, at what point when they enter Northern Ireland do we think that their marriage ceases to exist?”
“<BR /> <BR />Since marriage equality was approved across the water, we can see that the world has not fallen in. Those of us who believe that marriage is an important building block in society should be encouraged that more people want to buy into that institution. We should also be very careful about spurious claims about unintended consequences. Families with same-sex couples exist, and those children are raised in happy, loving, healthy homes. What will damage them most is continuing to stigmatise their households and families and not allowing them legal status. <BR /> <BR />The issue has also given a complete lie to the notion that young people are not interested in politics.”
“The result in May, by the simple act of people standing with gay members of our community, going into a polling booth and voting in solidarity for them, slightly changed the outcomes of such conversations. The conversation that many young people will have with their parents will be that little bit easier on the basis that their country has stood with them and said that they are equal and validated and that their relationships are cherished. <BR /> <BR />That is what the Assembly can and should do today: send the message to everybody, but particularly to LGBT young people, who are disproportionately affected by mental health issues, saying that they are free and equal and can fall in love and plan their lives like everybody in the Chamber is allowed to do.”
“I suspect that some of the most important testimony in moving votes, changing polling and the result in the South came from a former president, Mary McAleese, and from Tom Curran, the general secretary of Fine Gael. Both spoke about their experiences as parents and as families, their feelings when their children told them that they were gay and their worries and concerns. It was not because they loved their children any less or felt that they were different in any way, but it was their fears for their children and their prospects, how they would be mistreated or treated differently and the things that they would be excluded from in their lives.”
“I support the motion and those who will be most affected by the outcome. Like many people, I watched the referendum in the South just before the summer. I actually campaigned in it, and, I have to say, as someone who has been involved in elections for going on for 15 years, that I do not remember one being as life-affirming and positive since the referendum that we had here in 1998. It was so moving to hear the impact and testimony from people who would be directly affected by the change and those who would not, particularly those who lived through a time when homosexuality was still illegal, which, unbelievably, was the case in the Republic until 1993. We have to remember, of course, that there were politicians who argued against the change then.”
“Can the Minister provide the House with an update on progress on the implementation of shared neighbourhood projects, following the success of the Ballynafeigh development in south Belfast?”
“Can the Minister advise what documents, if any, the National Crime Agency (NCA) has requested from her Department?”
“The Minister is aware of the predicament of many householders, particularly in my constituency of South Belfast, who live under constant threat of flooding. Can she give an update on the household protection scheme, and give some assurance to people that they might still be eligible for that scheme, even if an alleviation scheme is planned for their area? In many cases, alleviation schemes will not begin to take effect for several years and people will have the threat of flooding hanging over them. There is a worry that they will not be eligible for the protection grants in the interim.”
“I thank the Minister for his answers. You have suggested that the current model is unsustainable. Has the Department identified the tipping point after which it thinks the model will be financially unworkable? At this stage, do you envisage a change in the number of Colleges NI campuses?”
“<BR /> <BR />The figures are a cause for concern for parents. We need to understand the impact that that diagnosis, or even your child potentially having autism, has, and every Member will have stories coming into their constituency office. Therefore, to be told, "We think that there is a problem with your child", and then to delay for a year being able to get the statement and the service that they need has to end. <BR /> <BR />I support the motion and ask that all Members lend support to it as well. I hope that the Health Minister does come back to work and works with the relevant Departments to streamline the services for people with autism and their families.”
“Groups such as Autism NI and the National Autistic Society have voiced their concerns about the waiting times for diagnosis and the failure of the services that follow assessment. They polled parents on the length of waiting times, and, as Members have said, 70% of parents have been waiting for a diagnosis, with a third of those having waited for more than a year. In my own health trust, two thirds of children have been waiting over 18 weeks and a considerable number for more than a year. That is a year of families frantically googling and trying to piece together the information that they need and their not having access to, and not being formally referred to, the services that can improve their quality of life. To say that that is challenging for those families is an understatement.”
“They show an increase of 0·9% across all health and social care trusts and of up to 2% in the school-age population. In very real terms, that meant that we have gone up 67% in the number of children identified with autism spectrum disorders from 2009 to 2015. It is natural that we would see some increase through the greater provision of services and through awareness, and the Member who spoke before me referred to the understanding of things that maybe were not diagnosed and, as a result, put down to other issues. <BR /> <BR />I think that the understanding and awareness that we have needs to be matched with investment in services, and that does not appear to be the case.”