Sinéad Bradley
South Down · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“<BR /> <BR />Periods have had many different names and have come, as Emma correctly pointed out, in many different colours. Mostly, they were talked about in hushed tones, but that is no more.”
“I, too, support the Bill, and I thank Pat Catney, my friend and colleague, for introducing it. <BR /> <BR />As a Member who sat on the Justice Committee, I am all too aware of some of the harrowing circumstances that young women face every day.”
“Pat's charm allowed everybody to embrace what he is trying to achieve today. I genuinely mean this: the people of Lagan Valley served the House proud when they put Pat Catney here. It is having people like Pat, with a good heart and good intentions, in a place where change can happen that results in days like today.”
“I am privileged to support the motion on behalf of the SDLP. Like other Members of the House, I have heard at first hand about the horrendous and heinous acts that led to the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act.”
“I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words. <BR /> <BR />I suppose that all of us like to consider ourselves to be fair. I include myself in that.”
“I thank my party leader, Colum Eastwood, for hearing my calls, understanding the importance of the Narrow Water bridge and making sure that it was included in the New Decade, New Approach agreement.”
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“The public appetite for compensation might not be high, but I am weighing all this up against the possibility of a judicial review. The fact that it was not even referred to or that there was no time or allowance for it again weakens the position. Our access to information has been shameful. Asking any legislator to come into a House and legislate in a way that allows them access to small amounts of information at a time of someone else's choosing is simply not good enough and never will be good enough.”
“<BR /> <BR />I move on to the reasons and other suggestions that are really causing a problem here and that we must put on the public record. We have no agreed business case. There has been no consultation. We cannot brush over that fact. That is a serious flaw. To just circumnavigate consultation in any legislative process suggests that we are on very thin ice. I say that with the greatest respect to the Minister because I know that he was intent on pushing this across the line, but he must acknowledge that the things that are missing in this process weigh heavily on us all. <BR /> <BR />Because there was no consultation or no time for consultation, we never got near the period where compensation would be discussed.”
“As you know, you had their full support on that day that Arlene Foster should remain in post. Therefore, SDLP calls for the public inquiry again could not be heard through the iron curtain of the Sinn Féin/DUP Executive. The calls for that independent inquiry, like everything else that appeared to come from these Benches, was dismissed — dismissed at the expense of people waiting for hospital beds and educational establishments that are being run down to nothing. It is shameful that anybody would attempt to come here and give a revisionist history of what happened, when the public record shows clearly what happened. Sinn Féin members can account for themselves on the doorsteps as to why they did not support the SDLP on that.”
“It did not ask her; you are right. When I took an intervention via Conor Murphy, I asked him whether it was not the first step in creating a credible public inquiry. At that time, Conor Murphy let me know that in no circumstances would the SDLP's idea of asking Arlene Foster to step aside first have anything to do with a public inquiry. He saw no reason in it. He said that we were after a head. That was not the case. We asked Arlene Foster to step aside for good reason. She was the Minister who created the scheme, oversaw the policy around it and set it off in its delivery, and there was a clear, unequivocal conflict of interest. She could not have served in the role of First Minister while such a critical inquiry was being brought about. <BR /> <BR />Sinn Féin did not share our opinion.”
“Let us be clear about that: the motion that was presented to the House asked the First Minister to step aside.”
“Those people, for reasons that will become increasingly well known to us all, did not want such a public inquiry, when, in fact, the SDLP could see — I am sure that, with the benefit of hindsight, even the DUP may see this — that the right thing to do was for Arlene Foster to step aside to allow for a full, independent public inquiry, to allow lessons to be learned and to allow a consultation and a measured approach on how to bring this to a close.”
“I thank the Member for that intervention. It is quite an astute one. He might be disappointed to know that I have studied it, and, if you look carefully, you will see that it is clearly on record that Patsy McGlone at that time made it known to the House that questions remained unanswered. He did not know. He, like others, was kept in the dark. <BR /> <BR />The people who appear to have had the privilege of knowing are the people who had the gift of delivering a public inquiry over the last seven to eight months.”
“How did they know the importance of cutting the scheme short of two weeks, not that it was going to make a big difference at that stage. It raises suspicions, and it certainly raises eyebrows. What was Máirtín Ó Muilleoir referring to when he urged the House to vote in a way that did not stack up in a measured way, considering what was in front of us? Mr Maskey may be muddled in his recollection because, perhaps, what he has to do and I do not is to separate what he knew and what he should have known. I have the privilege of standing here speaking on the public record on the basis of what was allowed to be known to the public and to the Opposition parties in the House.”
“When we reflect on who knew what and when, we know that, in November, the scheme was revisited and sensible proposals were put forward on putting in caps and tariffs that were voted on and rightly so. We also know that, in February, the Minister came to the House and referred to an advertising campaign as part of his explanation of why, suddenly, the scheme had become so popular. The SDLP's response at that time — I stand over it — was very measured and considered, given the information that was in its domain at that time. Others reacted in a different way. With hindsight and a look back over Hansard, it would lead you to wonder why others were less measured. Why did they feel a need to hurry in? What information were they privy to?”
“A super-SpAd. We do know that it was not a SpAd in the Department for the Economy. A good idea is a good idea — I have no problem who it comes from — and if a good idea saves money for the public purse, I will be the first to jump up and support it. However, when there appear to be political fingerprints all over this and, like everything else, that information was withheld, forgive me for being cautious, forgive me for having another list of questions that will go unanswered. <BR /> <BR />There is no trust here. It has been lost through a drip effect from the Executive over a long time, and I ask this question: who knew what and when? We are trying to place the amendment in front of us into context. I noticed that Mr Maskey has absented himself from the Chamber, maybe wisely so.”
“That is an absolute indictment of this Executive and the way they operated. Regardless of who or what, if anything, is returned to the House, I surely hope that there will be time to reflect on that and the manner in which business was done. <BR /> <BR />I will move on. On the probing, a cynical person might say that this is the Minister basking in the sun for his electorate, trying to push something through at the eleventh hour, so that, when he knocks on the door and they ask, "What did you do to stop the loss of money?", there will be a piece of paper. That might have been true, only we learned today in Committee that this is the brainchild of a SpAd, an unknown SpAd.”
“<BR /> <BR />I refer to the Iron Curtain of politics, which, ironically, the two Executive parties now find themselves on the wrong side of because if the House had been privy to any sort of monitoring rounds or draft Budget we would have been able to measure whether it was workable or whether it was workable with regard to the debate and the priorities that were being set. Of course, while some talk about equality, they were very comfortable with the fact that they did not treat other Members with equality. They were very satisfied to sit behind that Iron Curtain and reserve information for themselves only. Today, unfortunately, it is not the SDLP or the opposition parties that have fallen foul of that but the general public.”
“In probing and trying to get to some sort of answer around the business case, we did hear that there is no valid objection to it, which falls far short of there being any agreement to it. At this moment — I could be corrected on this — the Minister of Finance has yet to give any agreement to it. As we are charged here today with measuring the probability of judicial review against the potential costs of such a judicial review against the public interest, what would certainly have weighed in favour of this regulation going through as amended would have been the Finance Minister stepping up and giving some commentary or lead on it.”
“I will pick up where I left off before Question Time. Essentially, I was trying to talk to the facts as they are presented to us today on this regulation or amendment to it. We are acutely aware that what is being asked of Members falls outside anything that would be considered good governance or arrangements for making good legislation or amendments to it. It was very disappointing that the Minister was not in attendance at the Committee this morning, as many legitimate questions are still unanswered. It is not a very comfortable place to find oneself in when there are so many questions that are unanswered, and yet the business has to proceed against a ticking clock set by others. <BR /> <BR />The omission of critical things include the agreed business case.”
“I have no doubt that it is not the job of the House to judge or measure which of those two legal pathways holds the most weight, but, equally, I have no doubt about the decision being presented to us today. I have no doubt that a judicial review is highly likely, and it has been made clear to us why that is highly likely. Let it be placed on the record that nobody in the House believes that what is in front us of today is anything near perfect. In fact, in the week that is in it, many of the imperfections were highlighted.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will use my opportunity to inform you further, Mr Maskey, of what happened today at the Economy Committee, which you chose not to be present at. Legal advice was brought to the Committee. A legal pathway was set out that the Minister could pursue with these regulations and an amendment to them. It was set out how that might be possible. The problems and areas that we may have reason to have concern about were also set out quite clearly. Also presented to the Economy Committee was the legal pathway that the recipients of RHI funding could pursue through the courts. There were very clear indications that, equally, they have a pathway to follow up on if their contracts with the Department were not being honoured.”
“— to try to somehow undermine me by saying, "You were not here; your knowledge base would not be quite the same as mine". Well, Mr Maskey, my knowledge base is based on fact, not on spin and not on trying to somehow deceive the electorate by saying that you had no part to play in this. <BR /> <BR />Quite frankly, while we are at it, we will ask this question: why did Sinn Féin not want a public inquiry? What was the reason? Why was there an extended delay in this? A suspicious mind might think, "Maybe there is something that Sinn Féin is a little bit uncomfortable with and which could be laid bare", and imagine if that were to happen on the eve of an election. Sinn Féin's position on this appears to be, "Let's just get the votes in first and get to the facts later".”
“— because it is not good enough to come here and just use interventions —”
“What I suggest is that, if you cannot use facts, say nothing —”
“I will finish my point. They had signed up to a very good, worthwhile scheme at that time. Those businesses were in the process of realising orders coming into their business. They were in the process of installing boilers with — I repeat — the measures in place that should have been there from the outset. So, Mr Maskey, your little red herring has just died.”
“Mr Maskey and his party might do well to revisit the Hansard report of that time. There you will find a very well-considered scheme that was measured and that, had it been used at the outset, would have led to an avoidance of the saga in front of us today. However, on that date, when SDLP Members presented themselves here, they, like other Members, were mindful that the quick execution and early closure of the scheme were placing legitimate businesses at risk, because people who had signed up to a very good, worthwhile scheme, at that stage —”
“I will finish my point first for Mr Maskey's benefit.”
“I will continue, and I will continue for the benefit of Mr Maskey in particular, who clearly does not understand the facts of the case. The amended scheme, which had tariffs and caps applied, was presented to the House in February. You are right: you were present; I was not. The Member might be disappointed to learn that this Member can read and take facts.”
“The scheme that was voted on in February was the scheme —”
“— so is it not shameful that you are dependent on a Member who was not present to clarify to you, who should know better, what happened?”
“Thank you, Mr Maskey, for that intervention. I thank you for saying that it is not my fault. You are right: I was not here. But you were here —”
“I will give way very happily, because I have not heard from you in over two weeks on the issue, when you had the opportunity, so I am minded to be brought up to date on your thinking.”
“We all know that, at that time, it was the legitimate scheme that should have been produced and laid out at the outset. Had that been the case, we may have had a very good scheme in place, but that was not the case. That is the little fig leaf that Sinn Féin will no doubt use to try to hoodwink and convince the electorate that it somehow had no duty over its mandate in the Assembly to do anything, which was, essentially, to stop the haemorrhaging of public money.”
“Absolutely. It is the single red herring that Sinn Féin has left to hide its blushes.”
“Nobody saw fit to ask, "Should we be putting this out?".”
“I would never dare make such an assertion. <BR /> <BR />It is particularly disappointing because there are clearly two bodies of work at play here. It is in everybody's interest that the truth — who knew what, when and what exactly happened — comes to light. Only in that coming to the public light will lessons be learned from this. There is the second body of work, for which there appears to be little to no appetite. I say that across political parties and the media. If my house were on fire, would I put out the fire and then investigate how it started, or would I investigate it while the fire was raging? What has been happening in the House is that the DUP/Sinn Féin Executive, behind their iron curtain of politics, which has set a tone not befitting the Good Friday Agreement or any politics going forward, have watched the fire rage.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that. <BR /> <BR />I was hopeful that the extension of seven days from last week's debate would offer a genuine opportunity for those focused not just on an inquiry but on trying to stop the haemorrhage of public money that should and could be spent on better things, such as hospitals and education — and I could go on. I hoped that that would happen, but, at the outset, I register my disappointment that former members of the Executive and the Committee from Sinn Féin chose not to attend Committee meetings to discuss this point. It is particularly difficult to witness that at a time when they are otherwise very busy on the air waves, trying to play the blame game and essentially rushing to the front line to get the headline.”
“The Member quite rightly refers to good policy and good policymaking and business cases, and obviously good policy was not applied in this instance. Will the Minister talk directly to the motion that is front of us and the regulations? Will she explain to the House why she is asking us to depart from good lawmaking, without a business case and the necessary statutory requirements that would constitute good lawmaking? Why, in this instance, does she think that bad policy should be followed by bad legislation?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Out of my continued respect for the House, I would like to place on record my apology for not being in my place at Question Time today.”
“I will indeed. I repeat my call and ask all responsible politicians to make their way through the Lobbies and put their vote where their comments have been to date.”
“— that has been spread throughout the Building has somehow blurred people's vision of what has actually happened.”
“What am I doing before I walk out those doors to make sure the public interest is being served?". There are many doing absolutely nothing, only electioneering, spinning and trying to create something of an illusion that they are fit for government, but the political Febreze —”
“I am sorry; I will finish on this because I am conscious of time. <BR /> <BR />The motion speaks to the public interest. It is not about politicking or playing one off against the other; it is about taking a responsible action that has been missing. I call on every politician in Northern Ireland who has a right to do so to put the public interest before their party interests and present themselves in the Lobby in support of the motion if they are genuine in their calls to see this fiasco brought to a swift end and the money directed to our hospitals, education and other places where it is so badly needed. <BR /> <BR />Words are hollow when an opportunity is presented to you and you do not take it. If you suggest you want to re-present yourself to be a Member of this House, you must search your soul now and ask, "What am I doing?”
“I could quote many things that would be cringeworthy at this stage. What is the point? Let us look at the public interest here.”
“<BR /> <BR />I regret that that is the space that we have all landed ourselves in. Basically, anybody at the outset of this Government may well have asked this question: how long can this Government survive without a moderate voice or without some clear thinking from the moderate parties? Now we have our answer. <BR /> <BR />Today, however, the SDLP continue to step up where others have failed. We present to you a motion that is in the public interest. It talks to what should happen: proper governance. This is how it looks. This is what should have happened when others had the gift. While it is laudable that you say, "Yes, we wanted an inquiry; yes, we are up for an inquiry", you had the gift of creating such an inquiry, and you did not do it. You had your partners in government, and the relationship was so cosy.”
“No. I have no intention of giving way for the remainder of my speech. <BR /> <BR />There is little point in me speaking today on the dysfunction of the outgoing DUP/Sinn Féin Executive. Clearly, that is now a matter of public record, and the public are very wise to that. It is a legacy of their own making. My only regret is the damage that it has done to the institutions in Northern Ireland whilst they were having their choreographed love-in. Conveniently, then, when the time suited them, others left the Chamber, calling for an election and beating their chests before they ever thought it important to stop the haemorrhaging of public finances or to lay bare to the public the facts about the scheme. Why have they done that? That is a serious question, and there is nobody here today to answer it.”
“I will not give way because my time is limited. <BR /> <BR />We have been asking the questions, and the answers have not been forthcoming. Why is that? What was there to hide?”
“Thank you. I fully agree and accept that point. <BR /> <BR />Information has been deliberately withheld from us and others in the House. I have to find things out via the media. It is certainly not the case that the Opposition have not been asking the questions; we have done so at every opportunity.”
“Speaking on behalf of the SDLP, I want to make it clear that the motion represents the clarity of thinking that has been missing from the DUP/Sinn Féin Executive to date. Nobody doubts that major mistakes have happened, and there are even suggestions of fraudulent activity, which were discussed at yesterday's meeting of the Economy Committee. Access to information has been deliberately denied to people in the House and to the general public; in fact, I submitted a question to the Minister some weeks ago asking for a breakdown of RHI recipients by district electoral area. I did so because I recognised that there were many legitimate applicants to the scheme who are in receipt of money in a very legitimate way. We need to be sensitive to those people, and we are not hanging anybody out to dry. Likewise, we were not after a head on a plate.”
“He made clear to the House that he believed the right and proper thing to have done would have been to stop the loss of that money to the public purse. Herein, we are agreed. We all agree that the further haemorrhaging of this money from public finances should be stopped in any way possible. I therefore put it back to the Finance Minister: be true to your word. Show the House that you were genuine in your words. Along with the Economy Minister, show your constituents and the people of Northern Ireland that you are genuinely minded to save the public purse the money that is being lost. Anybody who was genuine in their position would use this week wisely. They would put public interest before any party political interests that are already evident in the House.”
“Members of my party, including me, were very uncomfortable with that, weighing up the balance of the loss to the public purse with the request that was put in front of us to carry out a piece of work that would be highly irregular, face legal challenge, no doubt, and maybe cost the public purse beyond anything we could begin to calculate or anticipate. <BR /> <BR />Things have moved quickly here today, as you will appreciate. I listened then to the Finance Minister give a very moving speech, although I am rather cynical that it was on the sniff of an election, about how he has great concerns about the public purse, as do I. He has great concerns, and he used the opportunity to list things that were of precious importance to him — things that did not appear in the draft Programme for Government.”
“As the SDLP's economy spokesperson, I welcome the opportunity of the extension. I doubt very much if any Member drove to work today in the hope that we could genuinely plug the hole in what is an £85,000 per day haemorrhage to the public purse. Sadly, even though I arrived here with an open mind and a positive outlook, I watched the day unravel. I listened to the Minister, who presented to us a case. He expressed his regret that there had not been time to get the agreed business case and that we would not be able to follow normal scrutiny process, and he put it to us that the decision would have to be made in the absence of good legal practice.”
“On the topic of division and looking at it in an economic context, will the Minister give an assessment of what he thinks the economic impact will be on Northern Ireland of the antics and the catastrophic mess provided by the DUP/Sinn Féin Government during the past mandate?”
“The tone of this debate is not fitting given that the public are rightly angry. The debate so far is an absolute disgrace to the House.”
“Does the Member accept that the motion, which I ask him to speak to, is the first step in looking at where that £400 million went, where it is agreed to go and what the principles are behind it?”