Declan Kearney
South Antrim · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“The 'good jobs' Bill is designed to benefit every single worker across this society, regardless of background. It is not anti-business. It is about growing economic productivity and enhancing employment and workers' rights.”
“The rhetoric around proper scrutiny is a complete red herring; it is an attempt by the DUP to run down the clock in relation to the mandate. Why is that? What is the DUP afraid of? Why is it vetoing the 'good jobs' Bill?”
“The fallout from Brexit is a reality that is being felt hard by workers and families across the North daily, and that is illustrated in evidence sessions that we have received in the Economy Committee. In one, we learned that our electricity bills here are now higher as a result of Brexit.”
“Catastrophic, kamikaze economics, politically toxic — there is no other way to describe the Brexit debacle. Yet, 10 years on, those in the Chamber who continue to cheerlead are burying their heads in the sand.”
“The fact is that Brexit has brought a positive focus to the democratic logic of self-determination and constitutional change in Ireland. There is a way to remove the negative and enduring legacy of Brexit. Irish unity provides that option. Therefore, it is time to widen participation in the debate.”
“Minister, do you agree that the discrimination in employment and the political vetting that have been practised in this state for so long, and actively supported by some Members, have no place in today's society, and that appointment to government boards should be open to all sections of society, including such citizens as Peter Lynch?”
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“The fix for that is to stay closely engaged with our racial equality subgroup, which is an integral part of our racial equality strategy, listening to what it has to say, and then, when we have access to resources, to build capacity and inclusion to ensure that the rights of those minorities are protected and that that is done in a way that is absolutely in consultation with those citizens on the ground articulating their needs and ensuring that they are properly represented and reflected through the racial equality subgroup.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist a chur. We have in place a racial equality subgroup. As I explained, the First Minister and I met them just last week. We think that they are very representative of the constituencies and communities that they represent. We can always do better. We had a good engagement about the importance of the work that they are carrying forward. We need to listen to what they say. It would be a huge anomaly and completely counter-intuitive if we had a situation in which those of us who are from here would purport to know best the needs of those who are members of our racial and ethnic minority population.”
“I thank the Member for his question. Again, that relates to how we advance the work that we have taken forward on our minority ethnic development fund. We have the racial equality strategy overview, but we also need to deal specifically with asylum seekers and refugees. In that respect, we are engaged, as I said, with the British Home Office to ensure that travel does not become an impediment to ensuring that people who need to come to live in this place for fear of famine, war and other forms of injustice are brought here, are included in this society, are fully integrated and enjoy the same benefits of living in this place as any other member of society in the context of our racial equality strategy and all the programmes, elements and priorities that that reflects.”
“We have made it clear that we are acutely concerned about the potential implications that that would have for how we ensure that our racial and ethnic minorities and those who have come to this place as asylum seekers and refugees are properly regarded, included and not in any way economically disadvantaged as a result of coming here to make this place their home.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist a chur. The Member raises an important issue about the progress of the refugee integration strategy. Allow me to set it into this context: work has progressed on the matter. Just bear with me, colleagues, so that I can get you the specifics. <BR /> <BR />We have, in fact, advanced it. It is one of our 11 themes in the racial equality strategy. It falls within the context of how we deal with refugees and asylum seekers. We are engaged directly with the British Home Office on bringing forward its recommendations and views on the matter.”
“Just as they run contrary to the vision of the racial equality strategy, which is owned by the Executive, they speak to the need for robust political leadership across the Chamber to confront all forms of racism and to give leadership to build a community that is defined by inclusivity, celebrates our diversity and is known, crucially, for its zero tolerance of racism so that this place becomes renowned as a welcoming place for everyone who has chosen to make it their home. Mar sin, a Cheann Comhairle, ní mór do gach aon cheannaire sa saol, sa tsochaí agus sa pholaitíocht an fód a sheasamh in éadan an chiníochais, an tseicteachais agus gach saghas idirdhealaithe.”
“In some respects, we might want to describe it as something of a "reset" moment, if you like, because contributors set out the task ahead if we are to build a future that values racial equality and racial justice. <BR /> <BR />As for the 'Songs of Praise' remarks by a senior DUP politician that you referenced, it is clear to me that, when senior politicians feel that that type of public commentary is acceptable, we still have a way to go. The remarks were insulting and offensive, and I acknowledged that during our meeting with the racial equality subgroup. Those remarks contrast starkly with the future that we should all seek to build together.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist a chur. Just last week, the First Minister, junior Minister Middleton and I met the racial equality subgroup. That group, as I indicated, has a specific responsibility to advise on the implementation of the racial equality strategy for 2015-2025. Speakers at that meeting recalled their experiences of everyday racism. They also reflected on their experiences of institutional racism and, critically, intergenerational poverty, as it interconnects with the reality of racism. They also discussed the effects of precarious employment and zero-hours contracts, which have a disproportionate effect on our ethnic minority population. It was a sobering meeting.”
“Tackling hatred is the responsibility of all of us in government and wider society. We will continue to drive forward this critical work. Let me say this once again: there is no place for hate or discrimination in our communities, and we will not tolerate racism in any form. We are committed to tackling the challenges, and it will take us all working together to deliver the positive change that is needed.”
“We are also considering the recommendations from Judge Marrinan's report on hate crime legislation, and we very much look forward to seeing them implemented.”
“We have completed a review of the minority ethnic diversity fund to ensure that it best supports local groups to promote good relations between people of different ethnic backgrounds. We have reviewed the Race Relations Order and are now preparing options for enhancing the legislation. We will shortly consult on a draft refugee integration strategy.”
“We want this to be a truly shared, equal and safe society for all our people, regardless of race or ethnicity. Unfortunately, racism and hatred remain an unwelcome presence in our society. Earlier this month, the First Minister and I attended a meeting with the racial equality subgroup, which reinforced the huge impact that racism has on people's lives and how important it is that we continue in our efforts to tackle hatred and prejudice. We are doing that through the implementation of our racial equality strategy. <BR /> <BR />Tackling racism and hate crime is the central aim of that strategy, and we remain fully committed to the delivery of all its key actions. Progress has been made on a number of those.”
“<BR /> <BR />A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, tá súil agam go léiríonn an méid atá ráite agam an comhthéacs inar ceapadh na rialacháin seo agus na cuspóirí a bhaineann leo. Mr Deputy Speaker, I hope that that provides you and Members with a summary of the context in which these regulations were made and provides an outline of their content. Molaim an rún agus na rialacháin don Tionól. I commend the regulations to the Assembly.”
“Hospitality could not operate between those times, including for deliveries. <BR /> <BR />The final amendment — amendment No. 25 — came into operation on 29 December, and it made the following changes: permitting taxi or vehicle hire businesses to operate during the period of tighter restrictions between 8.00 pm and 6.00 am from 26 December until 2 January. What is more clearly defined are the operating hours of businesses that are selling food and drink to prevent businesses from flouting the regulations by taking orders prior to 11.00 pm but continuing to operate via delivery into the early hours of the morning, providing that the power to require people to return home would operate only to 2 January 2021.”
“Additional restrictions were in place between 8.00 pm and 6.00 am from 26 December to 2 January. Those stricter measures were: no household mixing in private gardens or indoors in any private dwelling, except for emergencies or the provision of health or care services. Those restrictions also applied to gatherings with a linked bubbled household. Indoor and outdoor gatherings with members of more than one household were not allowed. Indoor and outdoor sporting events were not allowed, except for training by elite athletes and exercise taken with members of your household or a linked household, or exercise by an individual and their carer or carers. Essential retail could not operate except for grocery deliveries or grocery click and collect on an appointment-only basis.”
“Indoor and outdoor gatherings, excluding private dwellings, are permitted only up to a maximum of 15 people, including children aged 12 or under, with exemptions in place for work, blood donations, vaccinations and education. Indoor sport is permitted only for elite athletes or for PE in or for schools. Outdoor gatherings for the purposes of exercise or sport are permitted only for elite athletics and physical education in or for schools, if participants are members of the same household, a linked household or if exercise is taken by an individual and their carer or carers. Spectators are not permitted for sporting events. There is the closure of all hospitality, with some exceptions, including takeaway and delivery services, which are permitted from 5.00 am to 11.00 pm.”
“It limited indoor and outdoor gatherings to members of one household and their linked household to a maximum of 10 people, including children aged 12 years and under, for the two linked households to gather indoors or outdoors at a private dwelling at any one time.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No. 23 came into operation on 23 December. It limited a Christmas bubble to one day and prohibited overnight stays connected to a Christmas bubble. <BR /> <BR />Moving to the final two amendments, which reintroduced restrictions immediately after Christmas in response to an escalating disease situation and significant hospital pressures, amendment No. 24 came into operation at midnight on 25 December, and it remains in place today. The amendment introduced the following measures: closure of non-essential retail businesses, including click-and-collect services; closure of close-contact services, including driving instruction, with some exemptions; and closure of indoor and outdoor visitor attractions and sports and leisure facilities.”
“21 came into operation on 17 December and clarified some issues on entertainment and gatherings, including what constituted a single gathering if entertainment is provided in a venue, the definition of "entertainment" for the purposes of the regulations, that, in an outdoor venue, each group at a table is considered to be a separate gathering if no entertainment is provided, and that all the persons in a room are considered to be a single gathering if entertainment is provided. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No. 22 came into operation on 18 December. It provided for extended linked households at Christmas in order to reflect the guidance on households meeting over Christmas and forming Christmas bubbles; allowed the use of conference facilities by courts and tribunals; and covered some technical corrections in the regulations.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No. 20, which came into effect on 16 December, amended the requirement for review of those regulations to allow extra time for data to become available after the Christmas holidays. It also amended from 14 days down to 10 days the period that a person must wait before forming a new linked household in order to reflect the decrease in the self-isolation period, and it permitted a supermarket to use any till or checkout aisle for intoxicating liquor off-sales. That allowed customers to use all aisles in order to reduce congestion and overcrowding and to ensure that social distancing could be maintained. Some minor corrections and technical amendments to the regulations to permit the continued operation of business financial support schemes were also made under amendment No. 20. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No.”
“It introduced a number of significant changes, including the reopening of the hospitality sector with additional requirements for unlicensed premises to bring them into line with licensed premises on seating and gathering customer information; an upper limit of 500 persons for outdoor gatherings, sports events or gatherings; requirements on a responsible person and risk assessments to be carried out; the right of appeal to a court against a premises improvement notice or prohibition notice; reopening of close-contact services, with additional requirements to see clients by an appointment-only system and to gather customer information; removal of restrictions on the opening of non-essential retail businesses; amendments to the operating hours of hospitality services, including takeaway services and the sale of alcohol; and the regulations reverted to the mid October restrictions relating to places of worship, marriages and civil partnerships, funerals and committals.”
“At their meeting on 3 December, the Executive then agreed to allow a degree of reopening on 11 December. In some areas, they regulated for measures that were tighter than those that existed before mid-October. Those decisions were informed by medical and scientific advice, the assessment of coronavirus impacts on health at that time and the most up-to-date modelling. That formed the basis of the amendment No. 19 of the regulations. <BR /> <BR />I will now summarise briefly all seven statutory rules. I will begin with amendment No. 19, which, as I mentioned, came into effect on 11 December.”
“Those restrictions were reflected in a series of amendments to the regulations up to and including the No 18 amendment.”
“With your permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, and given the number of amendments that we are dealing with today, I will briefly set out the context of where we were when the first of the seven sets of amendment regulations were made. <BR /> <BR />Déanfaidh mé cur i láthair ar na leasuithe seo atá i gcroí dhíospóireacht an lae inniu. I mí Dheireadh Fómhair, ghlac an Feidhmeannas cinneadh sraith srianta úra a chur chun feidhme. I will then focus my remarks on the amendments at the centre of today's debate. <BR /> <BR />In mid-October, the Executive agreed to a period of tighter restrictions. Following a week in November, where certain relaxations to the restrictions were permitted, a further two weeks of enhanced restrictions were put in place from 27 November until 11 December.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. As you are aware, the most recent amendments to the regulations were announced in the Chamber on 6 January. Members heard directly from the Executive on these amendments, including statements from the First Minister and deputy First Minister and the Health, Education and Justice Ministers, and it allowed Members an element of scrutiny before they were made. <BR /> <BR />Today, Junior Minister Lyons and I are moving amendments Nos 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25 to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) Regulations 2020. Members will be aware that these amendments enacted measures that span the period up to and during the Christmas holidays and the subsequent weeks.”
“Éirím leis an rún a mholadh. I beg to move”
“We are not satisfied with the degree of engagement from the British Secretary of State or the NIO in assisting us to identify where we can obtain the financial resource required to ensure that we deliver on the commitment for victims' payments.”
“I thank the Member for his question. To answer the preamble, I absolutely assure him that the Executive are very much in solution mode to address the issue. It is certainly a key priority in TEO. It was addressed at our most recent Executive meeting. The two First Ministers are in direct contact with our Finance Minister, who, in turn, has been attempting to ensure that the financial deficit is addressed. <BR /> <BR />I think that the Member will sympathise with and understand the fact that, potentially, we may not have within our budget limits the capacity or resource to address the issue, which is why discussions with the NIO remain extant. It has become an extremely frustrating process. I think that I reflect a general view held in TEO and probably in the broader Executive.”
“Gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist sin a chur. <BR /> <BR />The Member is right to underline the critical importance of that strategy being brought forward. It is a commitment under NDNA, and it reflects the challenges in society. As a society, in this region, we still exhibit very high levels of social disadvantage and deprivation. The working wage and the incomes on which families can rely are less in this region than across these islands. <BR /> <BR />Work is being taken forward at pace to address that priority. I am confident that, in the very near term, we will bring forward the strategy. I hope that it then provides the toolkit for us all to work together as Members in the House and in the Executive to ensure that that priority is absolutely and categorically addressed.”
“For example, the health workers' pay dispute was immediately settled when we restored our power-sharing institutions one year ago. We are on track to deliver the graduate-entry medical school at Magee, with the first cohort of 70 students due to commence in September '21. A mental health action plan has been published. A feasibility study is being taken forward for a potential high-speed rail connection between Belfast, Dublin and Cork. Work has been done to publish the new ministerial and special adviser codes. Legislation has been introduced to reclassify housing associations to protect social and affordable housing supply and the delivery of homes to those who need them most. As I mentioned, the Historical Institutional Abuse Redress Board has been established, with payments being made to victims and survivors.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle, agus gabhaim buíochas leis an Chomhalta as ucht an cheist sin a chur. There is no doubt that, in some areas, we would have wanted to make much more progress, and some of our work has been fettered and delayed as a direct result of the pressures that have been brought about by the pandemic. That is not specific to TEO, but it has adversely impacted on the efficiency and the targets of all Departments. The Executive's priority and focus, as the Member will appreciate, has been on steering our health service and society through all these challenging times and supporting all our people. In the coming period, that work will develop into COVID recovery, which will present new challenges. <BR /> <BR />Despite that, we have delivered on a number of important commitments.”
“That work continues apace, and, to date, in this financial year, all the requirements arising from those programmes of work have been met. I am hopeful and confident that that will continue in the new financial year beginning April 2021.”
“<BR /> <BR />The NDNA financial package that was announced set out funding for specific purposes, including support for language, culture and identity; funds to support expression of identities and progress of cultural development; and funds to tackle social deprivation and paramilitarism. It is intended that the NDNA joint board will identify the specific purposes for which the funding for those unique challenges will be used. <BR /> <BR />The Member will also be aware that the Executive Office is responsible for a broad cross section of programmes — good relations, Communities in Transition (CIT), Urban Villages and programmes on ethnic relations and international relations — as well as for addressing the extremely important issues of historical institutional abuse and those who are victims of our conflict.”
“I thank the Member for her supplementary. You are right to highlight the fact that we have only 14 months left and that it is essential that we attempt, as an Executive and as a power-sharing Government, to address as many of the priorities as possible that affect us, particularly the challenges set out in NDNA. The commitments in NDNA are, as you will appreciate, extremely challenging. We are mindful of affordability within our constrained budget position, as are the Executive, and that is an important consideration in how we take forward the Programme for Government. Work is taking place to ensure that, by April, we have a high-level strategic Programme for Government in place.”
“While the restrictions associated with COVID-19 have impacted on the scale and method of delivery of our programmes, we do not envisage any of our departmental strategies being delayed as a result of the financial pressures arising from COVID-19. Due to a combination of funding from the Department of Finance and budgetary easements in the Executive Office, there have not been any unmet financial pressures arising from COVID-19 in the current financial year. The final budget for 2021-22 has not been determined, and our Department continues to engage with the Department of Finance in order to ensure that all budgetary requirements for COVID-19 and non-COVID-19 matters are understood and addressed at the earliest opportunity.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want to highlight the important work that has been carried out in my own constituency, particularly by Antrim and Newtownabbey Borough Council, which has led the way in setting a template for how other local government organisations can follow suit in their work in the community. We are also working to ensure that public messages on the issue are heard and understood. To that end, we have engaged with a wide range of other sectoral interests, including faith groups. Our most important partner in all that is the community. We must understand that the human cost of not adhering to the public health restrictions is severe. We all need to be responsible and take responsibility for our actions and behaviour.”
“The steps that we have taken are informed by the most up-to-date analysis and advice that we had received. Our preference is to work with every member of the community so that we protect ourselves and one another. However, where compliance falls short of what is required, those regulations will, of course, need to be enforced. The strategic compliance group, which is chaired by the other junior Minister and me, works closely with all our partners on a range of compliance, enforcement and communication issues. I want to thank specifically our colleagues in local government and the PSNI for the central role that they have played, along with the Executive Office, over recent weeks. It is a very solid foundation for how we move beyond this period and into the recovery period.”
“As the Member will know, the Executive have introduced emergency measures to halt the alarming levels of COVID-19 in our communities. We are in the midst of the current intervention. It is severe and restrictive, but, nevertheless, it is designed to try to have the desired effect. None of the decisions that were taken was easy, but our focus is on emphasising the need to protect people and save lives. Key to that, as the Member will know, is breaking person-to-person contact: in other words, breaking the chains of transmission. We are trying to get a balance between introducing restrictions when they are needed to flatten the curve of the infection, mitigating those as much as we can and, as has been discussed during Question Time, protecting our businesses.”
“It is important that our messaging be targeted and impactful. The need to be more innovative is a point that has been taken on board and that has been emphasised to the Executive's information service in the work that it is taking forward. <BR /> <BR />On your last point, yes, when we speak to our younger people, it is critical that we engage those from the younger demographic, particularly sports stars from all our codes, to assist us in articulating the important message of the measures that need to be taken by young people in particular in what is a challenging period to ensure that we save lives and that they stay safe.”
“An integral part of the work that is being carried out in the Department of Health and by the Chief Scientific Adviser and his staff is on taking account of behavioural attitudes and behavioural change in order to assess the effect of the restrictions that we have introduced and how they can obtain greater buy-in from the public, as well as what may be off-putting or neuralgic and not impact positively on human behaviour. We should work on the basis that that informs our approach and our analysis. <BR /> <BR />The need for more innovative and animated ways of communicating, particularly with our young people, has been a recurring theme of discussion on the Executive. The point is well made, particularly when we look at how the demographics have changed, with the increasing chains of transmission in the younger demographic.”
“That personal testimony will be very impactful in communicating the very real human cost of COVID-19 and the importance of everyone doing their bit by following the restrictions; limiting your contact with others; maintaining social distancing; washing your hands well and often; wearing a face covering; maintaining good respiratory hygiene; downloading the StopCOVID NI app; and isolating and immediately booking a test if you display the symptoms. The compliance communications group, which includes representation from Departments, local government and the PSNI, is working together to ensure that a joined-up approach is taken that will maximise the effectiveness of that messaging through all channels.”
“Our ability to reduce the levels of COVID-19 in our community is absolutely dependent on the public getting behind the effort to protect people and to save lives. Our communications strategy focuses on the steps that we should all be taking to stop COVID-19 from spreading and on the very serious consequences of non-compliance. That is a message that can be conveyed no more effectively than by the families who have felt the devastating effects of the virus: those who have lost a loved one to COVID-19. The Executive's public information campaign is being updated for the winter months and includes a testimonial from a bereaved family member that will be broadcast from this Friday, 6 November.”
“That extends to what we all already know: maintaining the social distancing that is required; good hand hygiene and respiratory hygiene; wearing face coverings and self-isolating immediately if we experience any symptoms, including a persistent cough, the loss of smell or taste or developing a fever; seeking a test if we experience any of those symptoms; and downloading the StopCOVID NI app. By following that advice, as we go about our daily lives, we can protect not only ourselves but others from serious illness. We can, crucially, protect our health service and, just as crucially, our economy, and we can help to avoid further, prolonged and more stringent restrictions. <BR /> <BR />A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, molaim an rún agus na rialacha don Tionól. I commend the regulations to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />Matthew O'Toole spoke from his experience and an economic perspective on the centrality of our hospitality industry. <BR /> <BR />Gerry Carroll and Jim Allister, once again, expressed their exasperation at the actions of the Executive. <BR /> <BR />I hope that I have responded to as many of the Members' queries, comments or questions that arose. We all have a responsibility to help to curb the spread of the virus, and we all know that; we have discussed it so many times. We can do that by complying with the restrictions that are in place and by following the health advice that we have.”
“They made the point that the health emergency needs to be understood as interlinked with social disadvantage and that we all need to ensure that COVID-19 does not deepen the poverty trap. By way of information and to share it with those colleagues, it is important to note that, between April and August of this year, COVID discretionary support grants totalled £1·9 million and, in the same period, non-COVID discretionary support grants totalled £4·2 million. Those interventions need to continue into the future if we are to avoid COVID becoming a deepening poverty trap. <BR /> <BR />Kellie Armstrong called for enhanced messaging and communication, and Justin McNulty spoke about the importance of increased compliance.”
“<BR /> <BR />Doug Beattie and Steve Aiken emphasised very strongly the importance of fighting now to defeat COVID-19, and they called for a unity of purpose among all Members and parties that occupy this House. <BR /> <BR />Sinéad Ennis acknowledged the sacrifice that is being made within and by the hospitality industry. <BR /> <BR />Alan Chambers made the point that the evidence of this pandemic is found in our infection levels, our hospitals, our ICUs and, sadly, in the new wave of fatalities that are being recorded. <BR /> <BR />Mark Durkan and Martina Anderson spoke about their constituency context and the need for increased solidarity and financial supports for businesses.”
“Colin McGrath spoke about the naysayers and the dissenting voices, but he welcomed all the interventions to have the desired effects. He and Matthew O'Toole appealed for more consistent processes to be adopted in how we all take forward our business. <BR /> <BR />Colm Gildernew commented on the linkage between the collection of information in the hospitality sector and the test, trace and track systems that we require to fight back against COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />Pam Cameron stressed the importance of letting our hospitality sector know when it can reopen, and that is because we have moved into a series of much more stringent restrictions, which have effectively overtaken the positions that are adapted by the amendments that are before us.”
“Many Members spoke about and commented on those matters. They are effectively outwith the specificity of the regulations under debate, but, nevertheless, colleagues made a range of observations.”
“Ministers have sought to address all those issues with greater energy and in a more systematic way through oral and written statements, but we can always try to improve how we manage the legislative process. For consideration, there may be merit in a discussion between the Speaker's Office and the Business Committee about how we could, perhaps, address that more effectively within the constraints with which we are expected to operate under. <BR /> <BR />Kellie Armstrong also urged that the extant regulations be expedited, and Matthew O'Toole supported that position. <BR /> <BR />Much was said in the debate that extended outwith the regulations. There was much commentary about the current situation and, in particular, the bringing forward of the new intervention that was announced by the joint First Minister in the Chamber last Wednesday.”
“The scientific data is obtained from a variety of sources, including from the SAGE group, which the Chief Scientific Adviser attends. A range of other evidence is considered, including international experience and relevant scientific publications. However, I am aware that the Health Department is looking at how it can upscale the amount of scientific data, information and analysis on the dashboard so that there is a greater public circulation of that information. <BR /> <BR />Colin McGrath and Kellie Armstrong raised what I think we all already know. That was, as Kellie Armstrong described it, the negative resolution approach that is taken with the regulations. I have great sympathy for her critique and discussion of the lag with the regulations.”