John Stewart
East Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Decisions taken over the next two months will determine whether Northern Ireland has a modern, responsive enterprise service or whether we simply roll forward a model that increasingly struggles to keep pace with the world around it.”
“<BR /> <BR />I understand that significant efforts have been made to bring the Department for the Economy, councils and Enterprise NI around a table to design collaboratively the modernised service for 2027, yet that meeting still has not happened. That is deeply disappointing.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Enterprise Northern Ireland and note the outstanding work of our local enterprise agencies, which go above and beyond, often in challenging financial circumstances, for our entrepreneurs and businesses.”
“I declare an interest as the chair of the all-party group on micro and small business, but I feel that I must highlight an issue that should concern every Member, regardless of party or constituency.”
“The infrastructure in Larne West is shambolic and fails residents and commuters daily. Minister, you will be aware of an ombudsman's investigation of the missing link road at Ballyloran that reported last February on the back of my office having brought the matter to it.”
“The Bill sends an important message that demonstrates confidence in the governance arrangements that are already in place and in the boards and management teams that have successfully led the organisations for many years.”
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“However, the licence, as it currently exists, prohibits selling anything outside. You have to apply for a temporary licence, which could come in for checks and balances and a whole range of difficulties. Perhaps that can be looked into; if that facility were there, they could extend their wares outside, even temporarily. That would give much more flexibility. <BR /> <BR />I totally understand where clause 17 on loyalty schemes is coming from. I do not think that any of would us want to see a scheme whereby people were being encouraged to binge drink or buy more. However, many sports clubs and social clubs have a card facility, whereby you join as a member and the card gets you a reduced rate or member privileges. I would not like to think that members' clubs will be hit by that rule.”
“However, many of the social clubs and sports clubs that can avail themselves of those already use their 52 per year. Therefore, they will have that option in the bag, especially as they try to come back from the devastation of COVID. In a post-COVID society, they will have the added flexibility to try to provide as many entertainment nights and put as many more pounds in the coffers as possible. I welcome the streamlining of the process and the application process as well. <BR /> <BR />Perhaps the Minister can get back to me about an anomaly with regard to sports and social clubs. Many have massive pitches. My cricket club in Carrickfergus has a huge cricket pitch, obviously. That is hardly surprising. We want to have a real ale festival every year, and others want to do the same.”
“Anyone who has tried to get a taxi at last orders knows that you have half an hour to get one, you cannot get one, and people are standing outside and congregating. It is just a mess. That flexibility and that offering are sensible. It will provide a lot less, as I say, bingeing and a lot more ease of access to amenities at the end of the night. There will also not be that rush out the door in city centres, towns and urban locations when everybody is out at the same time. There can be a phased end to the evening. That is much more sensible and pragmatic. It looks as though the offer is there to end that if it does not seem to work out. It is unlikely that that will be the case, but there is that backup in play. <BR /> <BR />Again, the extension of late licences is good. Many nightclubs already have those in place.”
“I will declare an interest at this stage, not only as a member of the Campaign for Real Ale, fan of real ale and former bar person who spent nine years behind a bar and collecting glasses while at university, but as a committee member of a sports and social club. Therefore, I have a fair idea about how some of this works. Many bar staff will welcome the extension of drinking-up time. Any of us who did it knows the real effort that it takes to get people to do their talking while they are walking at the end of the night. It was always a burden. That half hour usually involved people grabbing three or four pints and trying to neck them to get out within that tight time frame. A one-hour period will give flexibility and an easier offering to taxis.”
“It is unfortunate. I think back to 2019, when I was coming back on a flight at Easter and there was a stag party arriving in for the weekend. Unbeknown to them, they were not going to have much fun. They were planning to go out and enjoy the sights and sounds of Belfast, not realising that the place would be locked down for most of the weekend. That is unfortunate. The Bill will bring us into line with the rest of the UK and Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />I want to touch on a few aspects of the Bill and then ask a few questions. Lots of what I planned to say has been discussed, but it is important to get it on the record. It is important to end and update the archaic licensing laws around the Easter holidays. That is long overdue and will be welcomed.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is good to be back. I thank you and the Speaker and everyone who sent me messages over the last couple of weeks when I was off ill. It is nice to be back on my feet and in the Chamber and back to work. <BR /> <BR />I want to say at the outset that this has been a really worthwhile discussion and debate. It is nice to see us being able to debate legislation. I know that there will be many more rounds to go and that the Committee will play its role in bringing that forward. <BR /> <BR />It is also important to recognise the great role that the hospitality industry plays and the responsibility that it has, especially in the current climate, in promoting responsible drinking and providing key aspects to our tourism offering and to our communities.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers so far. One of the most frustrating things for businesses hearing this story coming out in the last week or so is that many waited for months and months, and some were still waiting, as you alluded to, on their appeals being heard as recently as last week. Businesses contacted me to say that they are still waiting on the outcomes of those appeals, so there will be a great deal of frustration. Can the Minister assure us that any ongoing appeals will be heard as quickly as possible so that people who are entitled to that money can get it? What legal powers does the Minister have to try to claw back any moneys that have been paid incorrectly?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. One of the key transport commitments in 'New Decade, New Approach' was the York Street interchange. There is no doubt that that will have a positive impact on commuters and freight not just in Northern Ireland but cross-border. Was there any discussion around that, such as assistance with that project or an indicative time frame for when we might see that project delivered?”
“Thank you for the answer, First Minister. Has the cost of implementing the strategy been fully developed? When will it be published?”
“I agree totally that we need to speak with one voice and continue to lobby Her Majesty's Government for as much financial support as they can give to businesses. Back in September, when you were last at the Economy Committee, Minister, you talked about a scoping exercise that your officials were conducting with their Welsh and Scottish counterparts to look at a support package for businesses that had, to date, been unable to avail themselves of any funding and support. Will you give us an idea of how that scoping exercise is going and whether we are likely to see the fruit of their labour any time soon?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The Member rightly points out the need for schemes that have been rolled out in the rest of United Kingdom to come here. That is essential, including the supported training and learning package that was rolled out last week for people who do not have A levels or their equivalent. Would the Member agree that it is important that we look at what Wales has done? Wales is in phase 3 of its economic resilience fund and has pumped £1·7 billion into its economy.”
“I really hope that the Economy Department and Minister have got this nailed and that I am standing here waxing lyrical for no reason, but I am terrified for the hundreds of thousands of jobs that we do not have plans in place to save. The document that we have is just words; there is no real structure behind it.”
“Its 'Economic Recovery Implementation Plan', is 60 pages long and was published as a secondary document. It covers the next 20 years and has everything in it: whether it be the social economy, SMEs or the third sector, it is all there. <BR /> <BR />Why are we so far behind? If you check the business plan in the Department for the Economy's COVID-19 response, you will see that it says that we will deliver a similar scheme by March 2021. I hope that I am wrong. I hope that my complaining will turn out to be futile because the plans are there, but it really worries me that we are so far down the line. The Department is looking to have a scheme by March 2021, a year on from when the lockdown began. <BR /> <BR />As I said, I hope that I am wrong.”
“It has three key headlines: delivering higher paid jobs; delivering a highly skilled workforce; and delivering a more regionally balanced economy. Who could argue with any of those? They are key cornerstones of anything. However, they are not new. In 2011, new jobs, more skills and regional balance were the three key cornerstones. The 2016 Programme for Government included an exact copy and paste of that. Is this the paper that we are working off for economic development? It is a nine-page paper, and it looks like an A-level project. There is nothing in it. There are just phrases like "We want to get here" and "It would be nice if we could do this". I have looked at it, and there is no substance. <BR /> <BR />I have looked at the Scottish model.”
“I thank the Member. <BR /> <BR />As I said, hopefully, that support will continue. I do not want to see a reactionary process, but preparation is needed. Other measures, including circuit breakers, are coming down the road, and the Executive and the Department need to be prepared. We need shovel-ready schemes that can be rolled out quickly to act as a buffer for businesses that are somewhere between survival and failure. That is essential. <BR /> <BR />When questioned about the lack of economic recovery or challenged about progress to date, the Minister will point to a paper titled 'Rebuilding a stronger economy – the medium term recovery', which another Member referred to. I was pointed to it, as were a lot of other Members during the week, by the Minister.”
“The motion unfairly calls on the Minister and her Department to replace that funding. As the Chair of the Economy Committee said, the vast amount required — billions of pounds — is simply not in the coffers of the Executive. It is important that we recognise the level of intervention that has come from Her Majesty's Treasury to support the scheme. That said, there is a great deal that the Department for the Economy can and should do. The motion refers to the need to provide immediate support for those areas and businesses —”
“That is exactly the key. In our offices, we hear of so many examples of people who have battled, borrowed and done whatever they can to survive while clinging on and hoping that support would come. It is lamentable that we are so far down the line, and those people have still have not been able to access financial assistance. I truly hope that support is coming. <BR /> <BR />The proposer rightly points out the vital life-saving support from the Treasury. Whether it is the self-employment or furlough scheme, they have undoubtedly been essential in staving off massive job losses. Like others, I lament the fact that the scheme will end too soon. It is perhaps penny wise and pound foolish to decide to cut off the furlough scheme immediately and not even support those industries that cannot get back to work.”
“The Minister should see the motion for what it is, and hopefully it is not seen as political point-scoring or as a means of attack. Most if not all of us want to play a constructive role in contributing to the economy and making sure that we can feed into a process whereby the economy can grow, and we can save as many jobs as possible and make as many businesses flourish as possible. <BR /> <BR />The motion rightly refers to business owners and businesses that have so far been unable to avail themselves of any support grants. It is regrettable that, three weeks on, even after a unanimous vote in the House, nothing has come forward. I hope that the Minister is working with her colleagues.”
“I thank the Member for Foyle for proposing the motion. I recognise her experience in a previous life, and the knowledge and expertise that she brings to the discussion. <BR /> <BR />To even talk about a figure of 100,000 job losses is frightening. That is 100,000 families, with four or five people per family. It means that a quarter of our population could be affected. It is impossible to overstate the gravity of the impact. The BBC reports today that economists are predicting a contraction of 11% in the Northern Ireland economy, with an estimated growth of only 7% next year. Members of the Committee for the Economy heard recently that it could take four or five years to see a return to pre-COVID levels in our economy. <BR /> <BR />As I said, I thank the proposer of the motion.”
“Minister, will you give us an idea of any bids that you have received from the Departments for Infrastructure or Communities in support of COVID-related measures that the Department for the Economy has failed to deliver on and whether any further Executive direction has been given to the Economy or Finance Departments to speed up implementation of the COVID relief?”
“but that often, in true Northern Irish fashion, "spoke of renewal" and positivity. He was a leading Irish poet, whose verses could be lyrical, pessimistic, sombre, witty and classically structured but full of contemporary things. Although his passing is tragic, his work will live long in our memories. Our thoughts are with his family at this time.”
“On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I pay tribute to Derek Mahon and send our sympathies and thoughts to his family. As has already been said, Mr Mahon has joined a long list of Ulster greats among writers and poets. It has often been said that he:”
“I thank the First Minister for her statement. As you rightly said, the United Kingdom has a 10 o'clock curfew and the Republic of Ireland has 11.30 pm, while we have arrived at 10.30 pm and out for 11.00 pm. Can you give some clarity about how that time has come about? You can understand that the public and the sector will look at it thinking that times are almost being plucked out of the air. Why is there that variety across these islands, and why did the Executive decide on 10.30 pm for 11.00 pm?”
“Minister, a great deal of responsibility tennis has been played by various Ministers about who is responsible for providing additional support for businesses that, to date, have not been able to avail themselves of support or intervention from the Executive. A motion to that effect was passed unanimously in here two weeks ago. Have you had a bid from the Minister for the Economy yet? In the absence of one, are you, with your Executive colleagues, in a position to create a package of support for those SMEs that have, to date, missed out?”
“<BR /> <BR />With regard to the economic impacts, Northern Ireland's biggest market is Great Britain. Any impediments to that would be deeply damaging to trade here. The focus should be on getting to 1 January and constructively trying to carve out together a workable solution so that we can protect our businesses.”
“Quite how a border of any type in the Irish Sea is compatible with the Good Friday Agreement in that respect is, quite frankly, beyond me. <BR /> <BR />The Belfast Agreement removed articles 2 and 3 and enshrined the principle of consent, meaning that the Northern Ireland people, and they alone, would decide their future. Surely any impediment to trade in either direction, North/South, which is identified in the motion, or east-west, is a clear breach of the agreement. How can there be an argument against that? It cannot simply be a claim that barriers between Northern Ireland and the Republic are a breach of the agreement but any restriction on trade barriers going east-west is not. The two cannot be mutually exclusive. It does not seem to stack up.”
“However, Sinn Féin's continuous support and idolisation of the European Union in all its forms seems to have come quite late to the party. <BR /> <BR />From a unionist point of view, the Good Friday Agreement is clear:”
“Indeed. Thank you for that intervention. <BR /> <BR />The Ulster Unionist Party supported the Good Friday Agreement throughout. When I spoke to my party colleague Reg Empey about this recently, he highlighted Sinn Féin's role in the agreement and said that it did not participate in any negotiations on strand one issues and, in fact, did not even endorse it at the end. It feels as if Sinn Féin found the protection of the agreement and all its entities quite recently and conveniently, as it did the relationship with the European Union, which is, again, a recent marriage of convenience. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the fact that some parties here have been dedicated and supported the European Union throughout. I refer to the SDLP, which was consistent in its message, for which I give it credit.”
“I am pushed for time, but I will give way briefly.”
“<BR /> <BR />The motion calls for the protection of the Good Friday Agreement in all its dimensions so that it is not diminished. That is somewhat ironic, given that it was just a couple of months ago that the Sinn Féin MP for Mid Ulster said in relation to the Good Friday Agreement that nationalists had been sold a pup. I am trying to figure out whether Sinn Féin supports the Good Friday Agreement or whether it is, as the Francie Molloy MP said, a pup that had been sold to the nationalist community. My party supported the Good Friday Agreement in all its parts —.”
“It is regrettable, then, that that is not mentioned anywhere in the motion. <BR /> <BR />I also fear that, more and more, we will see in adverts and on TV that products that are sold online and elsewhere will not be available in Northern Ireland because so many companies here and across the United Kingdom will not want to do the paperwork or pay the additional costs that will be required to bring in those products, further diminishing Northern Ireland's economic impact. It is regrettable that that is not included in the wording of the motion. We have also talked about the impact on the potential for state aid and the impact of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in relation to any additional legislative burden that would be borne here by businesses and on their ability to trade.”
“However, fundamentally, Northern Ireland's biggest market is east-west, given its relationship with the rest of the United Kingdom. Any impediments to that would be deeply regrettable and would have a deep impact on existing businesses here. I know of one business in my constituency that reckons that it will cost it up to £1 million a year to implement some of the measures, red tape and bureaucracy that will be required just to have the protocol in place. That will be deeply damaging. I do not want to see any barriers in place but we do not want paperwork to be introduced that will prevent companies from doing the business that goes across every day. My party colleague mentioned the £1 billion in trade each week. Any impediments to that will be deeply damaging to our economy.”
“I support my party colleague, Steve Aiken, who has already spoken in the debate, in saying that we will not be supporting the motion. I am pro-business and pro-Union and it is for those two fundamental reasons that I did not support Brexit. We firmly believe that it would not only, potentially, have an impact on the Union but would have massive consequences for business and trade. As democrats, we accepted the result when it came but it is barriers that are the biggest restrictions on trade. The protocol puts in place very difficult circumstances in which businesses will be able to trade east-west. <BR /> <BR />The motion refers to trade North/South and, obviously, that is important; there is no doubt that there is an all-island economy.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. In the spirit of openness and transparency, as identified in the RHI report, for which you are the lead Minister, will you publish in full all unclassified emails that refer to the non-order of PPE made by his Department with the Irish Government? The unclassified emails may be of particular relevance to the forthcoming Northern Ireland Audit Office report.”
“Some businesses are doing very well. They are not asking for support. They have managed to ride the storm and actually grow their businesses. Others are experiencing massive hardship. If that criteria can be demonstrated, raw data are not needed. The bank account information is there. If their turnover has been decimated, surely they should be able to access a fund without that raw data.”
“I thank the member for giving way. While I appreciate that the argument has been made by officials and by the Minister about the lack of data, the key to other schemes has been demonstrating hardship.”
“If there are difficulties, or if the rest of the Executive will not commit to releasing funds, our focus will turn to them, but there must be a bid from the Department for the Economy that is based on a credible, shovel-ready scheme that will show businesses that they are committed to supporting them and easing their financial woes. In the absence of any such proposal or commitment, we can only assume that the Department is being led by the remarks of the permanent secretary and is saying that they are not worth saving. Thank you for the time today. I urge all Members to support the motion.”
“Four months later, we have no sight of any bespoke resilience fund, bids or plans for a new hardship grant scheme or of a full economic recovery plan. <BR /> <BR />I finish with a heartfelt plea to the Minister on behalf of all business owners in Northern Ireland who are committed to survival and crying out for similar support measures to those that others have received. I implore the Minister and her officials to urgently create a new fit-for-purpose hardship scheme that will target those who have been excluded to date.”
“<BR /> <BR />In Ad Hoc Committees and briefings to the Economy Committee, the Minister has rightly said that she will not be found wanting when it comes to an economic recovery plan, or providing support for businesses. When I questioned her about a similar scheme to the Welsh resilience fund, at the Ad Hoc Committee in April, she said:”
“Or, is it the case that the Minister agrees with her permanent secretary who told the Economy Committee, two weeks ago, that, if it is only to keep businesses going for six or eight weeks as we head into more turbulent times, we have to wonder if the resources would be better deployed elsewhere. Tell that to a company director who is lying awake at night, wondering how to pay the bills — a company director who has maxed out every line of credit that they have got, but is resolute in their determination to survive and, whilst other businesses receive help, is told that they are not worth saving, or, if they have survived this long, they will be OK. Is that the sort of support that we want to see from the Executive and the Minister?”
“<BR /> <BR />I understand that there are always practical areas, grey areas and funding implications, and I understand that the Minister has many plates to spin in her portfolio, but the fundamental responsibility for a package of support for excluded businesses and business owners must, and does, rest with the Department for the Economy. The Minister cannot take credit for the previous schemes when rolling them out and simply wash her hands of them when the new versions are not coming forward. <BR /> <BR />Departmental officials told the Committee that they are unable to provide a new self-employed hardship scheme, potentially, because the raw data is not available from HMRC, but the Minister tells us that it is not her responsibility. What is it: the Department cannot, or will not?”
“They are individuals who, in the past two or three years, perhaps, have given up lucrative careers in the private or public sector to start their own career and become self-employed, blissfully unaware of the devastation around the corner. Unable to access schemes, they, initially, knuckled down, praying that support would come. Many have taken out loans, maxed out credit cards or borrowed from family members, but they were resolute in their determination to survive. They were convinced that they would not be forgotten about by the Minister or the Executive. Sadly, they have been forgotten about, and it has taken today's motion to get the issue on the agenda.”
“How is it that almost two months on, and despite my protestations and those of other members of the Economy Committee and sustained lobbying from business groups, there is no new bid from the Department for the Economy to create a new support scheme for those businesses that are continuing to cling on by their fingernails? <BR /> <BR />Scarcely a week passes without a business person from my constituency, or across the country, often in tears at the hardship they face, contacting me or a colleague. We are contacted by private dentists, consultants, architects, promoters, events managers, chefs, drivers, micro-manufacturers. The list goes on. Those people are the personification of the entrepreneurial spirit that we as an Assembly are supposed to champion.”
“When the Department for the Economy finally announced its business hardship grant back in May, it was cautiously welcomed and it was felt that it would be able to provide the safety net for businesses that had missed out. It was then hugely lamentable that not only did the qualifying criteria change three times in the 24 hours prior to its launch, but, ultimately, the criteria led to thousands of self-employed directors, sole traders and social enterprises again being excluded or being unable to avail themselves of the grant. <BR /> <BR />So obtuse were the criteria that almost a quarter of the hardship grant funding was returned unspent. That underspend, along with funds returned from the original business grant schemes, ran to over £53 million returned to the Executive in July.”
“<BR /> <BR />There is no doubt that via the job retention scheme, the self-employed scheme and the £10,000 and £25,000 grant schemes, a huge broad-brush stroke approach was applied to business support, and I fully acknowledge just how vast the support was and continues to be. That was essential and absolutely necessary and it has saved hundreds of thousands of jobs and countless businesses from going under. For those who were able to avail themselves of that support, it has been an absolute lifeline. <BR /> <BR />However, given the nature of those schemes, a significant minority of businesses and entrepreneurs did not meet the qualifying criteria. That was quickly recognised and, as far back as March, I joined Economy Committee colleagues in calling for a bespoke hardship grant, targeting those people, to be established.”
“The Minister acknowledged back in March that it was within her remit, and I argue today that it still is. Whether it was at the Ad Hoc Committee, or at the Economy Committee, or at debates in the Chamber on economic recovery, I have been at pains to point out from the beginning that, while this was the biggest health crisis in a century, it was quickly becoming the biggest economic crisis we had ever faced. From the outset, I have argued for an ambitious economic recovery plan, but also creative and generous government intervention in the form of economic support packages to businesses that, through no fault of their own, have seen their turnover decimated by the impact of coronavirus and lockdown measures. If that required a complete reprioritisation of our Government and Executive's spending, so be it.”
“<BR /> <BR />It has not taken me until recent weeks to acknowledge their plight — this is an issue that I and others have been actively promoting since early April. When the initial business support grants of £10,000 and £25,000 were rolled out, we all welcomed them and understood the reasons behind getting them out so quickly. However, at that stage, I said that it was imperative that we created additional schemes to sweep up companies that were unable to access those grants. <BR /> <BR />As the campaign has grown, the Minister for the Economy has repeatedly said that designing and rolling out a new scheme would not be within her remit but would be in that of the Executive. However, in March, the Minister acknowledged the issue and said:”
“I welcome the opportunity to table the motion and I thank the Minister for coming along today, although it is regrettable that it took a motion from the Ulster Unionist Party to highlight the plight of businesses that have fallen through the cracks and been excluded or unable to avail themselves of all the packages to date. <BR /> <BR />This issue has gained a lot of traction recently, due in part to the passionate and sustained lobbying from groups such as ExcludedNI, or excellent business organisations such as Enterprise Northern Ireland, that have actively highlighted the plight of many thousands of directors, sole traders and business people who to date have been unable to avail themselves of any government support, along with highlighting the need to see a business-focused economic recovery plan.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is important that we recognise how important the scheme is but also that it is only one pillar of so much more and the Executive need to play their role. It is imperative that we see more of the money that was released or returned from the grants and budgets made available for those who have been excluded.”