Deirdre Hargey
South Belfast · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“His double standards, including his condemnation of and opposition to equality and rights for our LGBTQ+ citizens, have caused real harm to others. The revelations about his double life expose the staggering hypocrisy of the DUP's moral facade. We need to know whether failing to act sooner left more vulnerable people at risk.”
“One week ago today, Jeffrey Donaldson was found guilty of 18 child sexual offences, including rape. That conviction was made possible only by the strength and resilience of the two victims who came forward and reported the abuse. Donaldson was an abuser. He abused children, but he also abused his position in politics and faith.”
“They now say that they knew about his behaviour, but, crucially, they did nothing to expose his inappropriate hypocrisy and double life. The 'Spotlight' programme and other reports have shown that senior members of the DUP — its most senior figures, including the then leader, Edwin Poots — were aware of serious issues and allegations abou…”
“It is therefore not credible to suggest that the intelligence agencies were blind to his compromised double standards and double life. <BR /> <BR />Those questions demand answers from the DUP leadership. They demand answers in the House from the deputy First Minister, who was closely associated with Donaldson.”
“It is clear that there is a huge disconnect between Whitehall and the reality that is being felt by people on the ground. A British Treasury policy that is managing decay, real-terms cuts and disastrous policy decisions such as Brexit or the funding of wars over public services comes on top of existing disparities between how public servi…”
“The answer is not the short-term fixes or cash injections that we have had in the past, which have allowed for the repeated Treasury script of record settlements and inability of the Executive to manage their finances — scripts that are often parroted in the Chamber.”
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“That is responsible gambling on the part of the consumer, but the need to promote responsible gambling also applies to the industry. That is why I have included in the Bill powers to allow me to introduce a mandatory code of practice and a statutory levy to help to pay for research, education and treatment. <BR /> <BR />I believe that it is right that we allow our gambling industry some flexibility to operate and that we seek to remove some unduly onerous, unfair and inconsistent restrictions on betting and the related businesses. However, in doing so, we must continue to encourage, if not sometimes require, operators always to recognise the inherent human risks in the products that they offer and to take proper responsibility for those risks and, indeed, the adverse consequences for many individuals.”
“I assume that Members who have been here for a long time will understand its scale and magnitude. That said, I am doing what can, I believe, be done within this term. Of course, that will be up to the scrutiny of the Committee and Members in the Chamber. There will then be a much bigger piece of work, and I am laying the foundations for that work to be taken up in the next Assembly mandate. <BR /> <BR />One other principle that I trust Members will recognise when considering the Bill is around responsible gambling. Many in our society gamble, whether that is buying a ticket for the National Lottery, betting on a sports event or gaming. Most who gamble do so responsibly, but, for the small number for whom gambling is a problem, steps can be taken: they can consider self-exclusion from premises or websites or setting spending limits.”
“The Member is entitled to his opinion, but I completely disagree with him. The reality is that it will take much longer — a whole Assembly term next time round — to change the full framework of gambling here and, in particular, to look at online gambling and the impacts of that. We need to do more research and consultation on those issues. <BR /> <BR />The Bill cannot tackle gambling in its entirety. That is why I have decided to break it up. I want to see some changes, which will include protections, in this mandate. The Bill will be the biggest piece of legislation to go through the Assembly — bigger than the Planning Bill that went through the Assembly previously — and there will be almost 340 amendments to it. It will be a huge piece of legislation and, with all the will in the world, it cannot be dealt with in this mandate.”
“When that system was designed, no one envisaged the digital revolution or the speed and scale of that change. The law that we have today is of a different era, and, because of that, the changes to the current legislation that I propose are merely what I see as being achievable and realistic within the existing statutory framework and the timescale open to me. I hope that Members will agree that, even if the Bill is eventually passed, there will remain a much larger job of work to be done, and that needs to take place in the next mandate.”
“Similarly, I have previously expressed support for the establishment of an independent gambling regulator to monitor, in the public interest, the activities of the industry and with appropriate powers to deal with malpractice and exploitation, wherever they occur. There are also issues to be addressed about new types of betting and gaming machines on the market. We need to look at the control of gambling advertising, both locally and cross-jurisdictionally: east-west, North/South and internationally. There will always be concern about the exposure of children, young people and vulnerable people to gambling products, whatever the platform. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, many of the challenges simply cannot be addressed through our present system of regulation.”
“All of us will agree that the process of legislative reform needs to begin now, and we all agree that, in the short time that we have left in this mandate, some change must be delivered. Whatever that change may be, it must lay down a marker for the next Assembly and the next Executive. <BR /> <BR />Secondly, we need to be realistic about what can be delivered in the time that this Assembly has left. For example, there is much work to be done to tackle the growth in digital, online gambling and gaming platforms, which now make up an ever-growing proportion of the industry. In many respects, online platforms represent in the public mind the most concerning feature of problem gambling.”
“It has been over 35 years since legislation regulating the gambling industry here was last introduced. In that time, the industry's structure, systems and practices have transformed to the point at which, in many instances, they bear only a passing resemblance to what existed in 1985. In short, we no longer have legislation that is fit for the modern age. <BR /> <BR />Today's debate is mainly about the Bill's principles. What are the principles that the Assembly needs to reflect on when considering the Bill? First, I hope that, regardless of any differences that may arise over the details of the Bill, all of us will agree that reform of our gambling laws is long overdue.”
“We are working on the review of welfare mitigations, which will be announced soon. I am also doing an independent review of discretionary support, which is one of the big ways that we can support people in immediate crisis. Indeed, some of the, I suppose, output from that review has been that we should not take away that support and that it is vital and working here in a way that it is not in other areas. We are doing other work on housing and fuel poverty. Indeed, we are upgrading the fuel poverty strategy. <BR /> <BR />I will bring forward clearer proposals in the coming weeks and months. Once those get the approval of the Executive, I will update the Chamber.”
“The Member will know that, so far, I have successfully got over £300 million in support during the COVID pandemic. That went to grassroots communities, individual households, support organisations and local government. I continue to look at that, and I am, of course, working with local councils on continued support for households. <BR /> <BR />My officials recently met the Utility Regulator to discuss fuel costs, and we are seeing what we can do to try to mitigate those as much we can. As I said earlier, we made an additional heating payment last winter, but, of course, there were gaps in the criteria for that payment and people fell through those gaps. We are looking at all of that, and I hope to be able to bring forward something on those issues very soon. <BR /> <BR />In the longer term, we are doing work on the anti-poverty strategy.”
“The contract had to be extended. How else could we have done the assessments? No alternative was in place and nobody else had the capacity to do the work. Effectively, the danger was that no assessments would have been done for the next two years. In saying that, we can opt out of the contract if we find an in-house model that can be done more quickly. I negotiated that as part of the contract, which is with DWP more broadly and does not just pertain to here. There is an opt-out clause in it, and I aim to get that in-house model running more quickly.”
“The service should be provided in-house. I have been very clear about that and I am making moves to ensure that that happens, but you will know as well as I do that I cannot click my fingers and make that happen overnight. I have to put assessors in place. We also need to make sure that the contacts are in place with public health officials to get access to medical records. To do that, I need to work with the Health Minister and the Department of Health more broadly.”
“You cannot just change that overnight, and, if I was to stop the contract, people would not get assessments at all and we would be in a much worse position. That said, people will know about the recent NIPSO report and others. We met the NIPSO just before the summer, and my officials have been meeting that body since then. Indeed, I had already made a decision about the assessment and looking at the audit requirements. I have now brought that service back into the Department. The audit function has been brought back in, and we are working to increase the caseload of assessments that are done in the Department. So far, 25% of those cases and assessments can now be done by DFC officials, with the aim of having all this turned back in-house.”
“I have stated my position previously in the House. Capita was here before I came into office, and, when I came into office, I said that my policy intent was to bring the service back in-house. That is the most appropriate way. I am also looking at other models, such as those in Scotland, which is developing a new assessment system based around its health trusts. We have had some engagement with the Health Department, and that will take some time to roll out. I am looking at the assessment of the cost of bringing it back in-house and what that will look like, and I will soon put a proposal to the Executive on the resourcing that is needed around that. <BR /> <BR />The ideal, longer-term solution is for the Department to deal with these issues, but, again, it is about recognising that that will take a bit of time.”
“Indeed, the cross-departmental group that NILGA — the Local Government Association — runs is looking at all those issues, and I gave a commitment at that meeting that I will continue to work with that group on areas that relate to my Department.”
“My views on the direction of travel and what the policy is about have been communicated directly to the British Home Office, so officials there are clear about my view. As I said, last week, I met organisations, refugees and asylum seekers who told their stories, many of which were horrific. Some fled their home for reasons outside their control. Work needs to be done here to create a safe space where they feel included and where they can actively participate, and the biggest thing is that barriers put in by the Home Office actually restrict them in participating. Work is one of the key areas, along with having enough income and not having recourse to public funds.”
“It is a disgraceful policy and is in line with other policies that show where this British Government are and their intent around human rights and equality issues. <BR /> <BR />I met NGOs such as the Committee on the Administration of Justice (CAJ) and others on the issue, and, last week, I met asylum seekers and refugees to look at issues such as destitution. I made a decision recently and have communicated it to all housing providers that we should not assist in that policy direction. I do not feel that, if you provide homeless services, you should be doing the work of the British Home Office, particularly given its regressive approach to refugees and asylum seekers. I have put out my opinion that we should not adhere to this, and I know that, again, my Scottish and Welsh counterparts have done the same.”
“I am bemused and confused by your question, to be honest with you. I have met sporting organisations and codes right across. It has not been just Gaelic games, but, of course, it includes Gaelic games and rightly should. I have met representatives from soccer, cricket, rugby and swimming, so I have met people from a range of sports. The grant is open to all. That includes community sports organisations, because I recognise the role that they play and how they can contribute to our strategy of improving inclusion and participation in sport of the groups that I mentioned. I have no doubt that information on this has gone far and wide and that many Members have advertised the programme. I encourage them to do so. There are robust procedures in place to assess organisations on the basis of the criteria and the need.”
“A lot of organisations, across all sporting codes, are trying to encourage more participation by women, people from more diverse backgrounds and those with disabilities but do not have the facilities to meet the needs. Releasing the grant was one way that we could meet that need. It will not do everything. It is £700,000, and I imagine that it will be oversubscribed, but it is showing my commitment to listen to sports organisations and to respond to those needs.”
“The scheme was a result of engaging with sports organisations across the board and listening to Members in the Chamber, members of the Committee and Members who regularly write to me. <BR /> <BR />There has been an impact, over the years, on the investment that was needed in physical buildings for sports organisations. It really came to light through COVID, when grassroots sports organisations were to the fore in many communities in the COVID response, delivering food parcels, opening their facilities to the wider community to offer services, delivering prescriptions and other things. <BR /> <BR />In our engagements, sports organisations have been saying that their facilities are not fit for purpose, particularly when looking at inclusion.”
“We have discussed whether meetings should be online or off-line and other flexibilities and whether councils should have more powers and, if so, what they should be. We are starting a series of engagements with local government to look at all those issues. That will, hopefully in the next mandate, lead to a change in legislation. Again, that would need to be scrutinised by the House.”
“That is a far-reaching question. It depends where you sit. They are autonomous bodies with their own procedures and rules. New powers would be a broader conversation. Of course, there are concerns. When we were putting COVID legislation through the Chamber, Members had a concern that the Department was overstretching itself into local government and councils. There is a fine balance between them being autonomous bodies and, rightly, having a Chamber such as this to have oversight and make legislation. <BR /> <BR />We have been working with local government, including councillors and officers. Changes need to be made to make the function of councils and local government better, particularly in the aftermath of COVID.”
“I am doing a number of audits and looking at councils, where it is appropriate with the vires and powers that I have. Bullying of any kind, no matter where it comes from, is totally unacceptable and should be challenged.”
“As you know, councils are autonomous bodies. I have a certain oversight of the roles and functions of councils. Any council needs to have robust anti-bullying policies. Councils also need to make sure that their whistle-blowing policies work effectively and that they encourage people, whether individuals or their trade unions, to come together. Councils should encourage trade union activism and ensure that unions can organise within councils and, indeed, across society as a whole to represent people's views. Essentially, bullying is an issue for a council; it has to be addressed within a council and according to its processes. It may turn into a criminal proceeding and take that route. If there were an accusation relating to a policy area or responsibilities that I have, I would, of course, investigate it.”
“We are now looking at supports to see what we can do — for example, in a voucher-type scheme. As part of the wider work on housing transformation, there is a lot to be done on retrofitting and the challenges of climate change and the challenges of fuel poverty. <BR /> <BR />I have outlined a lot of initiatives. They can be found on the website, and I encourage Members to look at them. We are, of course, looking to see what else we can do, and that work is ongoing.”
“I have outlined a number of schemes that the Department already runs. We are also updating the strategy, because it is outdated. It has to take into account the long-lasting impact of COVID. We are developing the anti-poverty strategy, which will be presented to the Executive towards the end of the year. Putting income into people's pockets is one of the key areas that we need to find ways to look at. There have been some difficulties, because money could be deducted from those in receipt of benefits. It is not as simple as just giving money out. Take the fuel schemes. Last year, the additional winter fuel payment went to over 200,000 households at a cost of £45 million. There were still gaps in that scheme, however, such as low-income families who may have been in work and were not entitled to certain benefits.”
“We are looking at the impact of this winter. We did a COVID heating payment last winter. I understand that that did not have an impact on all the groups that needed support. On the back of my officials meeting the regulator and looking at increased fuel costs, we are exploring what can be done this winter, while we work on longer-term strategies. Once we have looked at the options, I will present them to the Executive and update the House.”
“The fuel poverty strategy is being developed, so all those costs have not yet been bottomed out. I will be able to update the House when the strategy has been finalised.”
“An award for short-term financial help may also be made through the discretionary support scheme to assist people with additional expenditure for fuel costs in extreme situations. The discretionary support scheme is being reviewed by an independent panel, and my officials recently met —.”
“I approved changes to the eligibility criteria for the scheme from July this year, and it is anticipated that that will increase the number of households that are eligible for the grant. The second is the boiler replacement scheme, which is a grant administered by the Housing Executive. That provides up to £1,000 towards the cost of replacing insufficient boilers that are over 15 years old. <BR /> <BR />The social fund cold winter weather payment, which provides a one-off payment of £25 to elderly people, disabled people and those with children under five years old during periods of severe weather, is another scheme that is working on the ground. The winter fuel payment is a tax-free, non-means-tested benefit that is paid annually to eligible people. The rate payable is between £100 and £300 depending on the circumstances.”
“Fuel poverty is defined as needing to spend more than 10% of the total household income on the fuel used to maintain a satisfactory level of heating. That is defined as 21°C in the living room and 18°C in other occupied rooms. Fuel poverty is generally caused by a combination of three factors: poor household energy efficiency; low income; and fuel costs. <BR /> <BR />My Department delivers two grant schemes that aim to reduce the impact of fuel poverty by improving energy efficiency. The first is the affordable warmth scheme, which is the Executive's main fuel poverty scheme. It provides a range of energy efficiency improvements, including cavity and loft wall insulation and the replacement of heating systems and windows where appropriate.”
“I met representatives of the Brandywell stadium a while ago about the issues. Regional disparity and looking at funding are crucial issues. One of my considerations as part of the refreshment exercise was to make sure that we are looking at all those issues. Inflation rates and the price of construction are impacting capital programmes across the board, and the Executive are looking at that. We are still unclear whether that will last into next year. As the programme starts to take effect, those costs may come down, but we are keeping it under review. If the programme needs more money, making that decision will be a matter for the Executive.”
“I came into post at the Assembly in January 2020. I can give a commitment that I will be the Minister who delivers the programme in this mandate.”
“There has been a good level of grassroots engagement with local clubs that responded to the survey that was part of the refresh and engagement exercise. I have already given an update on the advisory group. All councils were involved, as was the IFA, the Football League and the Chief Leisure Officers Association. They met regularly to shape the programme and to look at it going forward. One-to-one strategic discussions with key stakeholders were also held over the last year. As part of the refreshment exercise, a total of 90 responses were received from 467 clubs, which was a response rate of over 80% from NIFL and affiliated clubs.”
“The Member may know other Ministers who use that tactic to delay, but I certainly do not. I have given my rationale. I came into post in January of last year and did not feel that it was appropriate to make big decisions on such a crucial fund as this on the basis of a consultation that was four years out of date. That is why, right away, I instructed a refreshment exercise. Nobody could have foreseen the pandemic, and, obviously, our focus had to shift because of it. That said, the refreshment exercise continued. I am committed to having it done within this mandate. That is a commitment from me, and I will do it. I am still looking through the analysis, and I am hopeful that I will make a decision soon and that this will be delivered within this mandate, as we have been tasked to do.”
“— is to try to get the money out as soon as I have the assessment done, and to ensure that I have it done within this mandate.”
“If there is a need to look at a subregional phase 2 for not just football but rugby, Gaelic and other sports, it will be a matter for the Executive to agree a budget. My priority —”
“The refreshment programme has also given us a good opportunity to look at the impact of COVID on the sport and, importantly, how stadiums can adapt to such shocks. <BR /> <BR />Engagements as part of the refreshment programme have finished. I am still looking through the analysis. Without having made a decision on the analysis, I will not make further comment on the detail. Obviously, there is a focus on encouraging the wider participation in grassroots football and sport of women, people with disabilities and minority ethnic communities to ensure participation at all levels. We will look at that as part of our work, and we will then look at the stadia that need money. I do not pretend that £36·2 million is enough. It will go so far and cater for clubs as much as possible.”
“I will answer the last question first. The money that was agreed previously by the Executive is there. There is no new money; it is that £36·2 million. That is the budget that I have and the budget that I am working with. I thought that it was necessary to do a refresh and engage programme because the consultation was almost four years out of date when I came into post. I did not think that it was good for me, as a Minister, to make key strategic decisions on the programme on the basis of a consultation that was four years out of date. That is not to say that it was not useful — it was — but the refreshment exercise was crucial. At that point, we did not see the pandemic coming, and the programme could have been a lot further along had COVID not hit.”
“If this mandate ends at the time that it should, there is a commitment from me that we will have the funding released. I am trying to work at pace to ensure that I can get the programme to the Executive and launched as soon as possible.”
“<BR /> <BR />An advisory working group has offered expert insight into the needs of soccer at all levels. It included on it representatives from local councils, in which a lot of the grassroots facilities are invested; the IFA; the NI Football League; and Sport NI. The Department has also been involved. I am still considering that insight, as additional information was provided. <BR /> <BR />I am conscious that I came to the Chamber just before the summer and said that the outcome would be a few weeks away. More work needed to be done, and I needed more information. In the time since, I have engaged with some of the football clubs that are looking to the programme, and more engagements are in the diary or are being planned at the moment. I am therefore still considering this. There is a commitment to having it done in this mandate.”
“Questions 3 and 4 are linked, so I will answer them together. I thank the Members for their questions. They will be aware that the subregional stadia programme was a commitment under New Decade, New Approach. The programme provides a real opportunity for delivery of the wider Executive priorities and to address a range of social, economic and cultural needs, particularly the needs of our soccer family. <BR /> <BR />Due to the passage of time since the consultation, I asked officials to undertake a refresh and re-engagement programme. It included a robust review of the programme, looking at up-to-date evidence and, in particular, the impact of the pandemic. We also carried out a club survey, which was launched in August 2020, and had a series of strategic discussions with stakeholder groups.”
“That moved at pace, but it did not reach all the target groups that it needed to. We are looking at options at the moment. I will need to bring something to the Executive to have it agreed. A question on that subject is to come, so I will give more detail when we come to it rather than answer it now. Otherwise, we will not get through all the questions.”
“I agree that it would be devastating. That is what we have communicated to the British Government, and my counterparts in Scotland and Wales have sent the very same message on the impact that it will have on citizens there. As I said, we have heard the stories from the Trussell Trust and others. There would be a bigger impact here in the North, because of all the other issues that we as a society have. Moreover, we are a society emerging from a conflict, so there is an impact on people's mental health and well-being and on people who find themselves needing that essential support from our social security system. We are therefore looking at all of that at the moment. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned about fuel prices as well. The Member will remember that, last year, we put in the additional payment over the winter period.”
“The other issue is that there would need to be legislative changes made. I have a paper in with the Executive on extending the period of the current mitigations and closing the loopholes. I am waiting on approval from the Executive for that to be presented to the Chamber.”
“That is why it will be included in the review of mitigations more widely. I will announce shortly the members of the independent panel who are taking up that review.”
“The proposal that I have put to the Executive on communicating with the British Government and showing not just our concern but our objection was endorsed by all Ministers around the Executive table, which was good. Work is ongoing. From the analysis that I have done in the Department, it would take £110 million to retain the uplift, based on the figures for those claiming universal credit at the moment. Obviously, that will fluctuate slightly depending on how many people are on universal credit. We are looking to see what can be done. You either find £110 million — there is no pot of money sitting there, so that would have to come from another Department — or you stop doing something else in order to meet that need. We know that it would have a devastating impact on people.”
“I will make an announcement soon on the review of welfare mitigations. Of course, all of this will be taken into consideration as part of that, along with other issues that Members will be aware of, such as the two-child rule.”
“We have put in a number of measures. Throughout the pandemic, over £300 million has been invested in support schemes that target those individuals and support communities. We have done a lot of work with local councils as well. Obviously, we continue to support our independent advice sector, and we want to continue doing that. It is a perfect storm in some way, with this increase in fuel prices, the impact of the pandemic and the impact of Brexit, and then there is the issue of the British Government moving to withdraw that lifeline from people. <BR /> <BR />As I said, £110 million would need to be found. My yearly budget is just over £800 million, which puts that money into context. We would have to find that money from the Executive, and I would need Executive Ministers to work with me on prioritising that.”
“Again, that is why I have worked with my Executive colleagues and Ministers in Scotland and Wales to push the British Government to retain the uplift and to protect those families.”
“At the moment, over 140,000 are in receipt of universal credit. As a result of the £20 uplift, £110 million goes into the pockets of people here on an annual basis. That is a huge amount of money that will be lost if the British Government proceed with the policy to withdraw that money in October. It will have a huge impact, given that the pandemic is still here and many restrictions are still in place. Of course, the impact of the pandemic will be felt long after the restrictions begin to ease, as we saw with, for example, the financial crash over 10 years ago. Our society is, in many ways, still feeling the impact of that, particularly the most vulnerable. This would have a devastating impact.”