Kate Nicholl
South Belfast · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for her humanity and her leadership. Many of the asylum seekers with whom I work do not fit into the illegal immigrant narrative; indeed, one woman with whom I worked was sold as a Daesh bride and was prostituted every day for two years, with her child often present.”
“It is a local number, and it has a chat function that people can use if they do not feel comfortable speaking directly. There is also an amazing charity called the National Association for People Abused in Childhood (NAPAC).”
“On behalf of the Alliance Party, I recognise the extraordinary and remarkable bravery and courage of the two victims. Yesterday's verdict will not undo the harm that was done to them, but, hopefully, it sends a clear recognition that what happened was wrong and that Jeffrey Donaldson will feel the full weight of the law.”
“I thank the Member for that answer. Recently, we held the national allergy strategy launch in the Long Gallery. I thank the catering team, led by Alan, for how well they dealt with that.”
“They have done so much for so many people in Northern Ireland, and we wish them well. They have gone through a difficult period. We hope that there is healing from this as they go forward.”
“The comments were violent and at a different level from anything that I have seen before. <BR /> <BR />We are in a difficult place right now. This destabilises our democracy. It is easy to believe lies when you are angry, and I am not sure what we do about it.”
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“He has repeatedly called for the UK Government to hold the Israeli Government accountable and warned of the dangerous potential consequences of these war crimes. Accountability is essential to prevent further recklessness and destruction. We are looking at what is happening in Rafah right now. I was struck by something that Save the Children said:”
“Supporting this motion is not saying that there are not other conflicts happening in the world — of course there are — but it is important that we focus on what is happening and on the impact that it is having on people who are here. People care so deeply about it. Palestinians in our community are so concerned. I think that Masoud is here today. There are people in our community who have been doing so much to raise awareness, so I welcome the opportunity to have this debate and discussion and to raise awareness of what is happening. <BR /> <BR />My party deputy leader, Stephen Farry, who leads on foreign affairs for the party, has worked with human rights groups to advocate for the rights of Palestinians in the region under international law.”
“Since 2021, Human Rights Watch, some Israeli human rights organisations and human rights experts have said that those actions are so severe that they amount to crimes against humanity. <BR /> <BR />I want to pick up on one thing before I go on to my next point. It relates to Doug Beattie's point about how there are other conflicts going on in the world and there is silence on those. That is true. I have been working a lot with Iranian women and members of the Sudanese community. I was at a rally relating to the appalling events in Sudan. That is where I met Mohammed Samaana and Sue Pentel. They were standing in solidarity.”
“Israel's seizure of Gaza, forced expulsion of over one million Palestinians from northern Gaza and indiscriminate bombings of civilians and civilian infrastructure is not self-defence. It is collective punishment. It constitutes a war crime, and it has to be condemned by all, as should be the broader acceleration of illegal occupation and intensification of the subjugation of Palestinians in recent years. Consecutive right-wing Israeli Governments, especially the current Netanyahu Government, have intentionally accelerated the illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, pushed annexation and dispossession of Palestinian homes, incited hatred against Palestinians and normalised settler violence.”
“You do not have to travel very far in Northern Ireland to realise that people have different views on Israel and Palestine: it is hung on lamp posts for people to see. However, I had hoped that, today, we could be united in our humanity. I have watched on in horror at Israel's treatment of Palestinians in Gaza and at the UK's refusal to call for a ceasefire, which Alliance has advocated for since October. My colleagues have already set out, unequivocally, that we condemn Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Firing rockets, kidnapping and summary executions constitute clear war crimes and crimes against humanity. I think of all those who are being held hostage and of how terrifying that must be for them and their families. <BR /> <BR />What is happening in Gaza is not self-defence.”
“We have made great ground, and I hope that Members are mindful to support the motion and its call for consultation on a lawful approach to the issue.”
“No. <BR /> <BR />The point is that flags, banners and emblems are not important to some people and are incredibly important to others. We live in a shared place where we will always have to share. We will always have to share this place and live together, and I think that we have made great strides in how we deal with these things. These are contentious issues, but let us have a consultation on the way forward and on a sensible approach that has a spirit of respect, mutual understanding and celebration. <BR /> <BR />We will not be supporting the amendment, albeit we recognise that it comes with good intent. Our concerns are about what we do in a situation where local accommodation is not reached. That is our main opposition to the amendment, but it is not more than that.”
“There is nothing to fear from an equality impact assessment. Much like on the motion in Belfast City Council around the flying of the flag on designated days, we took our advice from the Royal British Legion, which recommended designated days. That time being much like it is now, I tend to suspect that, for those opposed to it, it has more to do with elections than the matter at hand.”
“I would have if the Member had given way in the debate on the RSE motion. If you give way to me, I will let you in next time.”
“I do not think that it is about pushing something on to people; it is about having a public consultation. Please, if you take only one thing from what we have said today, let it be that no one is saying that national flags are offensive. We are saying that we need to have a means of dealing with the issue. <BR /> <BR />Alliance, Mr Allister said, are "partisans" on the matter. I will clarify the position in Ards and North Down because it has been massively misrepresented. It is not about removing flags from war memorials. We recognise those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. We are concerned that increasing the flying of the flags to 365 days is an attempt to politicise shared, inclusive places of solemn remembrance. It is in line with the —.”
“<BR /> <BR />Matthew O'Toole said that we live in a plural, contested and diverse space and that the motion is about allowing us to find a structure for a way forward. <BR /> <BR />David Brooks made an intervention on the Irish language. That is a very different point in that 228,000 people in Northern Ireland have knowledge of the Irish language, so likening that language to the illegal demarcation of territory is not right. However, the point of process does stand. There is a process for street signage, but there is not for flags, so let us fix that. <BR /> <BR />The deputy First Minister said that it is not about tearing shreds off each other. I do not think that that has happened today. Some people's blood pressure rose a little, but that often happens. Actually, we have had a useful discussion.”
“I do not want the next generation of politicians to be standing here talking about how to deal with flags. Let us work out how we deal with the issue now. <BR /> <BR />Brian Kingston said that no legislation is needed. Well, why is it not working? It is not working, so we need something. It is not about having a blanket ban. I do not agree, actually, that the motion's approach is detrimental to good relations; the current situation is detrimental to good relations, and we need to do something about it. It impacts on constituents, too. <BR /> <BR />Connie Egan made such a good point when she asked how people can have confidence that we can tackle paramilitarism if we cannot even tackle those symbols that are put up. I really appreciated her points on the Marrinan review.”
“I want to get through this, then I will bring you in at the end. <BR /> <BR />The proposed code of practice is included. We think that it is a good place to start. We are not saying that it is a case of bypassing what communities are doing. We acknowledge that civic groups are doing really good work, but let us have a consultation process and let the public have their say. <BR /> <BR />Declan Kearney, who indicated an interest in sponsoring a private Member's Bill, as Paula did, if the consultation is not brought forward, said that how we handle this is so important. It is a symptom of sectarian segregation and we need a plan. The deputy First Minister is right: the public want to see us getting on with business and doing things, but they want to see us dealing with difficult conversations and issues that come up time and again.”
“It is not just a case of doing it top-down or bottom-up; we can do both. There are examples of really good work that is happening in communities, but there are still problems that we need to address. That is why consultation is needed.”
“Absolutely. Thank you for that point. That constituent actually said to me, "I have no problem with the flag being flown, and I understand how important it is, especially at certain periods, but it needs to be time-bound and we need to know when it is coming down and who is putting it up". Our choice is between respect and openness or demarcation and antagonism. It is the people in communities who are living with it. <BR /> <BR />Doug Beattie talked about how the FICT report is about more than just flags; there is also the impact of symbols on victims. We have to be consistent on this. In Armagh, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council, there was a proposal for a working group to look at how to work with statutory groups to remove paramilitary murals. The UUP voted that down. There is a way in which to do both those things.”
“They were a mixed-marriage family, with different identities in the household, but they found the erection of flags during the night to be intimidating and a form of demarcation. They did not know who had put up those flags or when they were coming down, and that made them fearful. They felt as though they were being marked out. It was a couple of years ago. I remember ringing the police. They said, "We cannot do anything now that they are up, but let us know the next time that flags are going up, and we can do something". The next year, the same constituent contacted me. I phoned the police and said, "You told me to call you while the flags are going up. They are going up. Can you do something about it?", and they said, "No".”
“<BR /> <BR />My colleague Paula Bradshaw outlined that there is no agreement on the status quo; there is a lack of consensus, which means that we need to do something. Inaction, she says, is not a strategy. My party's proposal is for lawful authority for display, celebration and commemoration, and to do that in a way that is open and respectful. The motion calls for consultation. There is nothing contentious there; it is about how we find a way forward. <BR /> <BR />As an elected representative in South Belfast, I am contacted frequently by constituents about the flying of flags. I remember that a family in Finaghy contacted me to say that flags had gone up in the middle of the night.”
“It is OK. If you want to intervene, feel free to do so. On a school trip recently, I made pupils stand up and repeat what they had been saying, but I will not do that to the Minister for Communities. <BR /> <BR />When I got involved in politics, I actually worked for Anna Lo but had not joined the Alliance Party. Then, the Alliance Party voted, in accordance with its party policy, on the flying of the Union flag at City Hall on designated days. The response to that was extreme. My colleague Stewart Dickson's office was burnt down. Councillors had their houses paint bombed. Many of my party's representatives were living in fear. The fact that, today, so far on, we are able to have the discussion — yes, everyone has strong views on the issue — in a respectful way is really positive.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. It has been a really respectful debate, and I was expecting it not to be.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer and for always responding to my many queries about childcare. The £25 million dedicated fund is welcome to see in the Budget. How much of that will be spent on support for parents and providers? Will any of the additional funds come from the Minister's Department, or will that £25 million come purely from Executive funds?”
“Thank you, Minister, for your statement. Last week, Donna Tyson shared a picture of beautiful twin boys; one had just received a placement in a school while the other one is still awaiting a SEN specialist placement. The inequality is very clear, and your statement outlines a way forward for how we address that. <BR /> <BR />How does your Department plan to measure the appropriateness and effectiveness of the SPiMS places? This will obviously be a central part of it. How do we ensure that those places are the right ones for the children, and how do we measure that?”
“Thank you, First Minister. You briefly touched on the fact that childcare was discussed, which is unsurprising given its relevance to economic growth, skills and job creation. Could you elaborate on what was discussed and what we can hope to see coming forward in the future?”
“Amazing projects, in Sandy Row and elsewhere, came to an end when the funding ceased. Will the Executive bring forward any other support to allow some of those projects to continue?”
“They are here today, in the Gallery, and it is wonderful to see them. I think that that is a reminder that we are so lucky to have what we have and for what has been achieved by so many of the people in this Chamber who paved the way for peace and for us to have these conversations about carers, animal welfare and other things that we are doing in the community. That is so wonderful, remarkable and precious, and we can reflect on that today and hold on to that for the future. They are here today, and, if any Members are about, I know that they would love to meet you and hear about what we are doing in the Assembly and how we are moving forward. I know that everyone in the House is sending our very best wishes to everyone in Palestine and Israel with a deep hope that peace can be found at last.”
“The first Member's statement that ever I made was on the situation in Gaza and the call for an urgent ceasefire, the immediate end of Israel's siege in Gaza, the immediate release of the hostages by Hamas, a sustainable humanitarian corridor for aid to reach Gaza, the international community to do more and international community-led mediation to ensure a two-state solution. <BR /> <BR />I also talked about how I had met a group of film-makers during the 25th anniversary of the Good Friday Agreement and how fascinated they were by the mundane, including how our Committees operated, how we were able to discuss and put forward legislation and policy and the fact that we had so many different views on things but were still able to work together. Now that the Assembly is up and running, they have returned.”
“I thank the Member for giving way and for his respectful tone. The point of standardisation is to ensure that everyone gets the same education and to make it age-appropriate. Does the Member agree with me that, for example, the NSPCC PANTS campaign, which is directed at very young children, is an important safeguarding tool that is age-appropriate? It is not just about education but about safeguarding. By standardising RSE, we will make sure that everyone gets that at the right level for their age group.”
“Does the Member agree that, although the voice of parents is, of course, important, and parents should be included in education and the forming of the curriculum, this is, ultimately, about children? Sometimes, children are learning about what a healthy and safe relationship looks like from parents who are, in fact, abusers. There are different types of education that you can get, depending on the school that you go to, so standardising it and making sure that it is in schools is so important for the well-being of all children.”
“Instead, should we acknowledge the reality of our world and work to ensure that every child in Northern Ireland has access to inclusive, high-quality, evidence-based and age-appropriate relationships and sexuality education from trusted and safe adults that will empower and prepare them for the realities of life? <BR />To anyone who has been let down by our education system or has had to live in silence with what was inflicted on them, I am so sorry. We will fight for relationships and sexuality education that is befitting of the 21st century.”
“With the internet and social media, our children are accessing more harmful content and information than ever before. According to the NSPCC, they are likely to come across sexual images and videos at a younger age than their parents. Our children will be accessing information about relationships and sexuality; there is no doubt about it. The question for us today is how we believe that that education should be delivered. At worst, some say that we should leave it to the internet, with misinformation, fake news and damaging misogynistic and dangerous information setting the agenda or, at best, retain the current postcode lottery, with the quality of RSE depending on what school you attend.”
“One key part of tackling that horrendous situation is to ensure that all children have access to a standardised RSE curriculum that equips them to understand what healthy relationships look like and to recognise the signs of unhealthy relationships. <BR /> <BR />There is so much on violence against women and girls, which my colleague Connie Egan will touch on. There is the whole-school approach. However, I want to give space to the words of two young people who are doing work experience in my office today. Cadence and Sameero said:”
“Kids should grow up into adults with an understanding of RSE and the capacity to flourish and thrive, not having to heal from the past. So much harm has been caused by not preparing our young people, and it does not have to be that way; we can do something about it. <BR /> <BR />Very much connected to this is the issue of online safety. We have to recognise the world that we live in. According to Ofcom, almost two thirds of 13-year-olds in the UK have at least one social media account. According to NSPCC research conducted before lockdown, one in seven children aged between 11 and 18 has been asked to send sexually explicit images and messages. That is abhorrent.”
“I wonder how many people in our society are living in silence and have been harmed because they have not had the space to have safe and healthy discussions about relationships. Haileigh said that school kids grow up into adults and that:”
“We do not know how many children in the UK and Ireland are being abused, because it is mostly hidden from view and under-reported. Adults may not recognise when their children are being abused. A child may not know or understand. They may be ashamed or too scared to tell anyone. Children need to understand what abuse looks like so that they can get help. Without fact-based RSE, they could miss out on crucial information. For our children and young people, knowledge is power. <BR /> <BR />I have been so inspired by an amazing woman called Haileigh Ashton Lamont, who waived her anonymity to speak out about the sexual abuse she received from the age of eight to 18. She was robbed of her childhood, and she had to fight the system for justice. Haileigh should not have had to go through any of that.”
“I am setting it out. I am just saying that the Member is not really qualified to give an opinion on it when all the evidence and all the experts say that this is what is needed. <BR /> <BR />It is not just about forming healthy and safe relationships and understanding consent and being able to identify when you are being abused and knowing how to seek support. It is also about online safety. I hope that every Member cares about that. It is important that parents are equipped and confident, but that should not infringe on the rights of the child to access this education. <BR /> <BR />Since becoming a parent, I have become more and more invested in ending child abuse. As a parent and as a legislator, I want to make sure that we all do our best to ensure that no child is subjected to abuse.”
“Therefore, there can be no dilution of children's rights. I suggest to the Member that it is not really up to me to defend this. He needs to defend why he is not supporting it when the Children's Commissioner —”
“The Member will note that the 2023 statement of the Committee on the Rights of the Child on article 5 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC) sets out that:”
“In its recent report on learning for life and work (LLW), the Secondary Students' Union of Northern Ireland found that only 22·8% of young people surveyed felt that they had been adequately taught about consent. <BR /> <BR />The opt-out provides for the potential dilution of children's rights by limiting their access to age-appropriate information about healthy relationships and sexuality, and we are opposed to such a measure on that basis. The rights of the child must always be the priority, and our children and young people want access to comprehensive RSE.”
“Far better for young people to be able to ask a trusted adult their questions than have to seek the answers elsewhere, often on the internet. <BR /> <BR />A study by the Belfast Youth Forum found:”
“The intervention from the Secretary of the State while this place was down was an important step in the right direction, but there remains significant variation amongst schools in how RSE is taught, what content is covered and when it is covered. The current guidance also allows parents to exclude their children from crucial lessons on a range of subjects, including LGBTQ topics, sexual health, pregnancy prevention and access to abortion, thereby diluting the education received by our young people. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that RSE topics are interlinked and that limiting access to parts of the course leaves young people vulnerable to misinformation. An effective RSE curriculum, tailored to stages of development, should impartially teach age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate content.”
“<BR /> <BR />In 2018, the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women recommended that the UK Government:”
“<BR /> <BR />Having come from Zimbabwe, it struck me how vastly different my experience had been there. At my primary school, we were given access to age-appropriate education on healthy relationships, which, given the prevalence of HIV and AIDS, was, quite literally, a life-saving policy decision. Then I arrived in Northern Ireland, and, as a young person, the system baffled me. That is why we have brought this motion to the House today. It is long past the time that we gave young people the right to access comprehensive RSE as a means of empowering and preparing our young people for the realities of life. It is not just regrettable that so many have missed out on this education; as I will set out, I believe that it is negligent.”
“I am grateful to have the opportunity to open the debate on this motion, a debate that will, no doubt, spark some passionate views across the House but one that I hope we can conduct with the respect that is due. <BR /> <BR />The first time that we discussed anything to do with relationships and sexuality at my secondary school was in a biology class on reproduction. I was 15 years old, and we all knew what was coming. The teacher very slowly retrieved the video from the store and regretfully slotted in a VHS and pressed play. Some psychedelic kind of sperm went across the screen. We had to endure that a second time, and, on both occasions, a child fainted. I remember thinking at that time that this was not the relationships and sexuality education (RSE) that we needed or that we wanted.”
“The plans will allow for the recent environmental improvements and, again, would be semi-permanent, thereby allowing for the future move of the roll-out of the south Belfast corridor of the Gilder, which we are very excited about. <BR /> <BR />Trademarket will close at the end of 2024 and knew that it would, but, when we see businesses such as this that are so innovative and have become such a success, we need to do everything that we can to help it succeed and continue, albeit on a new site. Let us support our independent businesses, and let us do what we can to save Trademarket.”
“Trademarket has been a hub for independent businesses. Its 20 spaces are used for grassroots enterprise, and it has employed over 100 people. It always knew that it was temporary and that its time at 14 Dublin Road was limited, with the new Kainos and QUB site being built. However, Trademarket has been such a success that permanent closure is something that we should avoid. <BR /> <BR />Trademarket has been making representation to move to Bankmore Square and make that its new home. It is currently leased by the Linen Quarter business improvement district, but it belongs to DFI. Given the current status of liquor licensing, funding an alternative brownfield site beside another willing licensed premise would be difficult, so Trademarket has drawn up plans for how it could relocate all the businesses on to the Bankmore Square site.”
“Thank you, Minister. The incident that I was referring to was a young woman who did not lose her life. It was another accident, but it was very harrowing for the family, and I think that we need to look at how we improve all measures. I welcome the fact that you are looking at this. <BR /> <BR />On improving other connectivity within the area, specifically cycling, cyclists who travel from Carryduff to Belfast are very nervous. Is that something that you can look at improving too, please?”
“We need a timeline for the childcare strategy, and we need to see what interim support is going to be rolled out while a childcare strategy is developed and an affordable childcare scheme is rolled out. Parents just cannot deal with this anymore. They are struggling and are at their wits' end. People are having to choose between their careers and childcare, which is not in anyone's interest, least of all the child's. We urgently need an update from the Minister of Education and a commitment from everyone that this is not just words and that we will see delivery.”
“Those fee increases are part of an ongoing trend, and, worryingly, they may not be the end of the increases. Parents are feeling let down. I am constantly being contacted by people on the subject. One mother told me that she is moving back to Northern Ireland and is really happy to be coming back but is terrified about the cost of childcare. By talking about the issue and prioritising it, we have raised expectations. People are making life choices and decisions based on the hope that there is going to be support, and it is not coming. Words just are not enough; we need to see action. <BR /> <BR />The Minister said that there would be an update on options to deliver support for our children, parents and the sector after Easter. Easter has been and gone. We need more information on that from the Department's task and finish group.”
“Childcare costs are out of control. We have said that many times in here, but it is depressing that it is now more true than ever. The Employers for Childcare survey that was published in March said:”
“On the first day back in this Chamber, we all sat here, and every party leader said that childcare was a priority. Alliance has been working hard on this over the past two years. We published details of proposals to reform childcare and reduce fees for parents. In November, when the spring Budget was announced, we warned that the increase in the minimum wage, while welcome, without support to cushion childcare providers would force them to close or to raise their fees and pass that on to parents. Here we are in April: fees have gone up; letters have come out today; and some providers are to announce yet more increases.”
“I hope that it was taken that our intention was really just to celebrate our diversity, our differences, our different heritages and histories and everything that makes us unique, special and different. As an Assembly, we should be supporting that and working towards a genuinely shared future that we can all enjoy.”