Andrew McMurray
South Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, various greenway projects are mentioned in your statement. Those projects are to be welcomed. Recently, Newry, Mourne and Down District Council announced a feasibility study, part-funded by DFI, for a greenway between Warrenpoint, Kilkeel and Newcastle.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister can respond to some of those concerns directly. As I said, Alliance supports the reclassification of trust ports in principle, and we understand that that requires a limiting of the Department's powers. However, I am convinced that we need to have stronger safeguards.”
“Reclassification requires limiting some of the Department's powers, particularly the power to issue directions to trust ports. Several of my constituents have raised that with me as a major concern, and Ms Ennis also referred to it.”
“I will speak first in my role as the Alliance Party's infrastructure spokesperson and then as MLA for South Down. I echo what the Committee Chairperson said about the approach to the Bill. From the outset, it should be said that we support the ports.”
“Kilkeel and Ardglass ports have great potential for ancillary industries, such as the maintenance and security of offshore energy production. I am on the record as repeatedly calling for more investment in those areas and championing the great benefits that the blue-green economy can bring to the fishing ports in my constituency.”
“That will drive the Northern Ireland economy, and it has the potential to aid and drive the economy in South Down. Belfast Harbour would, through its master plan, like to make large-scale investments in renewable energy infrastructure but is currently severely hampered in that regard.”
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“I remember standing outside the centre in my welly boots and a high-vis trying to get some of the gullies cleared, so I know and understand how difficult it can be. <BR /> <BR />The Economy Minister set aside funding for recovery after the 2023 floods, but the distribution of that money was not without difficulties for many of the businesses affected. The ramifications of that are still being worked out. The way in which flood relief grants to businesses are distributed must be looked at and reviewed.”
“I thank Ms Forsythe for securing the Adjournment debate, and I thank the Minister for being here. There can be no doubt that the recurrent flooding and, at times, lack of recovery action is one of the top issues that I have been dealing with over the past two years. <BR /> <BR />Three large towns and, by connection, villages in my constituency have been directly affected by flooding events. Downpatrick has seen its business area severely affected; Newcastle has seen the flooding of residential areas and properties; and, as Ms Forsythe rightly said and felt the brunt of, residents of Kilkeel have regularly seen their main commuting routes in and out of the town affected, be that due to structural road defects or the roads being flooded or partially flooded, making it impossible to pass on them. The Member referenced Shannaghmore.”
“Thank you, Minister. What consideration have you and your colleague in the Department for Infrastructure given to ring-fencing any part of the Budget over the next three financial years for long-term investment in waste water treatment infrastructure?”
“Does the Minister envisage any further monitoring rounds taking place prior to the end of the financial year?”
“The Minister for Infrastructure should do her part, and I urge her Department to work with key stakeholders to bring forward legislation as soon as possible.”
“An individual was arrested under the Communications Act on suspicion of the misuse of a public electronic network to send a grossly offensive message. That is one route, but it does not tackle the pictures having been taken in the first place, and, among other considerations, it is ultimately dependent on the interpretation of whether the footage shared is grossly offensive. It would be helpful to have that clarity. <BR /> <BR />Legislation to that effect is already in place in several European countries, and we should follow suit. Road safety is primarily a matter for the Infrastructure Minister, but this proposal touches on the responsibilities of, among others, the UK Government and the PSNI.”
“It has been expressed that the very idea of learning about someone's death through social media, be that by a message or some other way, does not bear thinking about. <BR /> <BR />For members of the public, the one and only legitimate use of a smartphone at the site of a road traffic collision is to call 999. As Mr Frew described it, as a first-aider, you wonder what you would possibly do in such a scenario, but taking out your phone to voyeuristically capture such things does not bear thinking about. Taking pictures and videos of victims and distributing those images online is completely unacceptable. It can cause real hurt and emotional harm to families, and that should be reflected in the law.”
“Something else that those offences have in common is that they are an assault on a victim's dignity and privacy, and the same is true of taking images of serious or even fatal road traffic collisions or, for that matter, other tragic incidents. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to the families who are here today. The family of John O'Brien, who was tragically killed in Newry this year, will know much about the videos that are being shared and how awful that is, with the loss of dignity and the sadness that goes with it. First and foremost, it is about dignity and privacy in the most intimate, private and personal moments, which, of course, include death. In this day and age, we are used to sharing and even oversharing a lot of our private lives, but I do not believe that we have lost the capacity for empathy yet.”
“The Minister of Justice, who I thank for being here, has begun to tackle online harm in relation to violence against women and girls, and, in the previous mandate, she strengthened the law in that area by making cyberflashing a criminal offence. Furthermore, she introduced the new offences of adults pretending to be a child to groom a child and of disclosing or threatening to disclose private sexual images. Finally, Minister Long recently consulted on criminalising the creation and sharing of sexually explicit deepfake images. All those offences commonly happen online, and those are important steps in tackling online harm.”
“I thank Mr McGlone for tabling the motion, and I thank the family members of those involved for taking the time to travel here today. <BR /> <BR />For a long time, we have treated the online world as a separate realm that has limited impact on real life, but that is no longer appropriate. We are becoming increasingly aware of the real and substantial harm that online activities can create, whether those are child abuse, bullying, online scams or the capture and distribution of distressing footage of road traffic collisions. We are discussing the latter today, but it is important to recognise that the motion is part of a bigger piece of work, as Mr Frew referenced, of tackling the much wider picture of online harm.”
“While Sport NI has had its travails, with two chief executive officers and the governance issues that the Minister has referenced, the jewel in its crown — Tollymore National Outdoor Centre — remains closed. What commitments and assurances can the Minister give that a new Sport NI chief executive officer will ensure that NI retains a national outdoor centre and ensure the safety of all those involved in outdoor recreation?”
“Minister, will you provide more detail on the recently announced cross-border bovine TB pilot, which comes under the Shared Island programme?”
“On the matter of the city of sanctuary designation for Newry, Mourne and Down District Council, the decision was the right, just and empathetic thing to do.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also thank the PSNI for the proactive role that it has taken. The issue has been ongoing, and the PSNI is working hard and was quick last night to phone around and offer support and advice. I will also say that having men in balaclavas standing in front of flags reading crumpled statements and holding guns has not defined my politics and does not define my politics, nor will it ever. What defines my politics is this: my party colleagues here and the political discourse with other parties in the Chamber, whether we agree or disagree. That is what moves society forward. <BR /> <BR />I stand in solidarity with other elected reps, I thank the PSNI, and I completely refute the threats made by the group last night.”
“It is the season of peace and goodwill to all men. It is also the season of Advent, which, Mr Speaker, I am sure that you are reflecting on. Advent defines the story of a young family making their journey in a challenging political, social and economic situation. I reflect on that story a lot, but some people in our society have missed the whole point of it. Last night, a threat was issued to all elected reps in Newry, Mourne and Down District Council against the council's decision to endorse the area as a council of sanctuary. At the outset, I stand in solidarity with all elected reps in Newry, Mourne and Down, be they councillors, MLAs or MPs, and with all parties sitting here today, because it is such a humbling and proud role to be an elected rep and serve society.”
“The statement refers to the sharing of information papers on speed limits: have there been any initial discussions about that? Has the Minister considered reducing speed limits in the North, given the recent changes in the Republic of Ireland, Wales and Scotland?”
“Thank you, Minister. Can the Minister update the House on when he next plans to engage with the UK Treasury, given that many measures in the Budget do not go far enough to help businesses, families or the NI Executive's finances?”
“I thank the Minister. Politics is the art of the possible, but "the attainable" is the next part of that quotation. Is the Minister confident that that is attainable within the consultation period? <BR /> <BR />The Minister referenced the move from 75% to 100%: is he able to provide clarity on that? I have been out across South Down and have been everywhere from Warrenpoint Chamber of Commerce and Newcastle Chamber of Commerce to Kilkeel Chamber of Commerce, and it is the rates that are prohibiting the return of bustling high streets in Northern Ireland.”
“Scotland and Wales are at different stages of legislating to make outdoor residential learning a requirement, which would be good to see here, given the wonderful outdoors that we have. <BR /> <BR />At the beginning of my contribution, I made a quip about outdoor activities not being a good grounding for front-line Northern Ireland politics. However, the teamwork involved in canoeing, the resilience gained climbing a mountain, the trust required to hold a rope and to be held at the end of a rope all engender partnership working. It is never too late to work on those skills, so, if the Speaker or, indeed, the Minister or any members of the Executive want to take part in a few outdoor workshops to look at the matter, I would be happy to hook up with them to go for a dander or something like that.”
“I appreciate that, as we all do, but, as we have said, outdoor learning should not be curtailed simply by the outdoor spaces that are available to schools. While it is great for outdoor learning to be acknowledged — it should be embedded in the curriculum — in reality, the number of schoolchildren who are exposed to outdoor learning, whether formal or informal, has drastically reduced over the years. The centres at Ardnabannon, Bushmills, Killowen, Killyleagh, Ebbitt and Cabra have been closed over the years, which has taken away the ability to provide an outdoor recreational learning setting. <BR /> <BR />The Committee Chair and other Members have said that Scotland is an exemplar of outdoor learning. I certainly subscribe to that.”
“I am glad to see the will of the Committee to investigate the positive role that outdoor learning can have in formal and informal education settings, but there are a number of points on which the Committee and the Minister may wish to reflect. When we look at the policy, we do not always take into consideration the full range of outdoor learning centres that exist. Statutory, voluntary and private providers all play a role. We need to consider the curriculum topics that are in the syllabus for Key Stages 2, 3 and 4 and that outdoor learning centres already deliver. That learning takes place in formal education settings, but there are also informal, youth-work settings and the accreditations that those guys provide. <BR /> <BR />Protection from further cuts is needed. The Minister previously referred to financial constraints.”
“I have often witnessed a child who is not the most academic or confident in the classroom or who does not perform on the traditional sports pitch come into their own and exude confidence in an outdoor environment when put on the end of a rope to abseil down a cliff, in a wetsuit to jump into a plunge pool or in the forest with a map. It is not just about giving that individual confidence but about their getting acknowledgement from teachers and classmates, who now view them differently because they have a strength that they previously did not know that they possessed. That is the real magic of outdoor education. <BR /> <BR />There are, however, challenges to any such strategy, and the Minister should note them.”
“Studies have shown that it can improve the academic potential of those who are exposed to it. Many other Members have acknowledged that fact, and it has been academically proven beyond what has been said in the Sunday papers. <BR /> <BR />From anecdotal experience of outdoor education, I believe that it works for those who may not have the traditional academic strengths. Minister, Members and the Committee, do not underestimate the power of the outdoors and associated activities to change how individuals see themselves and how others see them.”
“I have spent a lifetime in the outdoors. Recently, I reflected on the fact that getting psyched in the outdoors through doing activities such as climbing, mountain biking and mountaineering, in the company of like-minded friends and companions with a shared objective, might not have been the best grounding for a career in front-line Northern Irish politics, but the road less travelled and all that. <BR /> <BR />Outdoor learning provides for inspirational experiences, challenging activities, excitement and fun, all of which contribute to a positive, lifelong educational impact. The Committee Chair is correct to say that outdoor learning is not just a nice thing to do. It is still a very nice thing to do, however. It has been proven that outdoor learning introduces energy into the classroom.”
“Minister, do you believe that the social well-being aspect of licensed premises — both as community hubs and as more regulated spaces — should be prioritised ahead of cheap alcohol from supermarket off-licences?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. The average grant rate is 46·5%. In Scotland, it is 55%, and in Wales, it is 67%. How did the Department arrive at 46·5%? What calculation was that based on?”
“I thank the Minister. It is no surprise that the rating system is seen by many businesses as a barrier to their development and something that precludes a bustling high street. The statement referenced rental values. For some, the barrier is not the rental price but the rates payment on top of it. How will the proposals help those who wish to establish a business on the high street?”
“Minister, what representation are you making to your counterparts in the Republic of Ireland to ensure that all-island branding, such as Ireland's Ancient East, is extended into Northern Ireland, as doing so would benefit many in the tourism industry, not least in South Down?”
“Minister, are you having any conversations with your counterpart in the Infrastructure Department and with the construction industry to ensure that you can start new builds in the social housing sector?”
“The First Minister, in her statement, said that four directors have been appointed to the board of Tourism Ireland. Can she outline the criteria and process for making the appointments? Can she also outline how those directors may assist and strengthen North/South cooperation in the tourism sector?”
“<BR /> <BR />On the community aspect, I am sure that there are parents, and perhaps even grandparents, here who have seen the confidence that is inspired in our young people, from P1 and up, when they see themselves in the local newspaper at sports days and all sorts. That inspiration goes right the way through to helping journalists and other people who are involved in the media with their first tentative footsteps into the industry. <BR /> <BR />My final point is on the local economy. The 'Down Recorder' created jobs, supported local businesses and promoted community and cultural events. Its closure will be well felt, and I hope that some solution can be found.”
“I acknowledge and, in many ways, lament the closure of the 'Down Recorder', the local newspaper that has served Downpatrick, Ardglass, Killough and many other areas of South Down. At over 189 years of age, it was one of the oldest papers on the island of Ireland. My thoughts are, first and foremost, with the staff at the paper — the journalists, editors, production staff and other workers — as they face into this uncertain period. Those staff were always proud to work for what was known as "the campaigning paper", highlighting local issues and championing the communities that they served. In an era of social media and fake news, it is sobering to see local papers such as the 'Down Recorder', which are so diligent in their journalism and hold to the values of the profession, ceasing production.”
“That approach builds on the successful experience of working with communities to re-image their murals. It has been a collaborative process, carried out in partnership with the communities in which the murals are located. There has been a lot of references to "community". We have to bring communities along because that is the only way that these things work. <BR /> <BR />The Commission on Flags, Identity, Culture and Tradition recommended that all those involved with memorialising the conflict reflected in a spirit of generosity, reconciliation, respect and accommodation on how they did so. That requires a good deal of good will, openness and emotional effort on all sides. For my part and my party's part, we want to play a positive role in that.”
“What vision of the future are we looking to provide for our children? What kind of attitude towards their fellow citizen are we fostering in them? Respectful memorials or the perpetuation of past hurts and glorified wrongs? <BR /> <BR />I was watching one commentator yesterday, who asked whether our politicians were beacons of hope for the future, and they answered their own question with "No". We certainly cannot be beacons of hope for the future if we continually glorify the wrongs of our past and antagonise each other in the process. This is about finding a way to remember that helps our society to come together a little bit more and builds something new and hopeful that helps future generations to thrive. <BR /> <BR />The process that we are envisaging is one that supports communities to re-image memorials.”
“Ms Ferguson made a point about it being a predominantly unionist/British thing. I turned 40, and the border turned 100, so I took a wee cycle around the border, and, according to my observations, it is not a one-sided issue. There are many contentious memorials from the other side, too. I will leave it at that. <BR /> <BR />Our challenge is to build a society where we can work together to build a better Northern Ireland where everyone can thrive and where reconciliation and toleration are continually built and worked upon. Indeed, "reconciliation" and "toleration" are doing words, led by actions and not by way of saying the right thing. That is why I am involved in politics. Many of the memorials that we see in Northern Ireland are firmly holding on to the irreconcilable and antagonistic versions of our past.”
“Yes, we can sometimes get things right in this place. <BR /> <BR />However, Northern Ireland goes a wee bit beyond the sterile lab conditions of a policy document. I was struck by the words of Farida Shaheed, a UN special rapporteur in the field of cultural rights, who said:”
“Planning permission for memorials is important for a host of reasons, one of which is their contentious nature, and the consultation requirements in the planning process can help with that. There are also reasons for rules on the safety of physical structures in the public space, and it is in everyone's interest to ensure that memorials do not pose a hazard to people's health. Guidance to make those requirements more explicit would be helpful. <BR /> <BR />Enforcement of planning breaches would be a matter for councils, and that remains a sensible approach. However, councils need clear policy to work under. It has been my experience that, when issues are brought to councils' structures, on-the-ground solutions, much like those that Ms Hargey spoke about, can be worked out and agreed upon.”
“Those two things argue the same point. <BR /> <BR />It is my understanding that many memorials, depending on their nature, size and scale, implicitly require planning permission. Others, such as murals and plaques, would be considered as permitted development and would not normally require express planning permission. I believe that, on that point and the other proposals from my colleague Ms Bradshaw, when a formal process is applied to a matter such as this, it helps that a certain amount of toleration and acceptance is built in. <BR /> <BR />The fact that a large number of memorials exist without planning permission shows that the current approach is not working.”
“Let me say at the outset that the Alliance Party is committed to respecting people's right to remember their dead. There can be no doubt about that. Remembrance is important, and it can certainly have a positive impact in a society such as our own. We have to accept, however, that we are becoming increasingly aware of the harms that can be done through memorialisation. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the matter of planning, our motion calls for:”
“I thank my colleagues for tabling the motion. Ms Bradshaw has already spoken about it in quite a bit of detail, but I want to focus on a few points that stand out for me.”
“Does the willingness to step outside and take control demonstrate a lack of confidence in Sport NI, Minister?”
“Thank you, Minister. Will your Department engage with councils ahead of the upcoming review of bathing waters to encourage the designation of more sites in Northern Ireland?”
“Will the Minister give an update on the Forest Service's work in Donard Forest, given the flooding in Newcastle that was caused by storm Amy?”
“Would a planned and communicated approach earlier in the financial year have been a more effective way of saving money and offsetting the resulting outworkings that the Minister has described?”
“Will the Minister explain how the work will be supported by the new restorative hub that her Department is establishing with the Probation Board?”
“There are areas such as the Lake District in Cumbria — Ms Hunter referenced some others — that have utilised that tool to offset the broader socio-economic costs for an area that is facing this issue. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, we can all agree that we cannot elevate the needs of the tourism industry above the basic needs of the people whom we serve, and there are few needs more basic than a safe and stable home. I urge all parties to do their best to support this issue.”
“The current situation is putting unsustainable pressures on housing in certain parts of the country, and we cannot let that continue. Councils have a role to play, but so do the Communities Minister, the Infrastructure Minister and the Economy Minister, and we are yet to see decisive action from some of those Departments. The Infrastructure Minister has stated that she has no plans to restrict the conversion of residential properties into short-term holiday lets but that she is open to looking at the issue under the planning improvement programme. We encourage her to do that. I hope, too, that the Finance Minister will have another look at the rates response and see what can be done from that angle.”
“Mr Bradley quite rightly pointed out that other economic drivers can be utilised to drive sustainability in housing and get people into the area. One driver that I can think of is the offshore renewable sector, as represented in Kilkeel in South Down. If it is supported, that sector could develop, meaning that companies would keep and offer well-paid jobs in South Down rather than further afield. Therefore, although I appreciate the sentiment of the motion, which is very much about tourism and second homes, wider economic development can go some way towards easing the pressure and ensuring that young families can stay in their locale. <BR /> <BR />The fact that we need stronger regulation and a stronger planning response to short-term lets was touched on.”
“Towards the end of the summer, the National Trust held a symposium on sustainable tourism. One of the strongest themes to come out of that was that there is a need to ensure that communities are supported and sustainable. If we get it right for the community, we will get it right for the tourists; if there is no community, tourism will not survive.”
“I certainly do, yes. One bit of feedback that we get is about that undercutting and the lack of regulation. The bona fide tourist operators have really well-cared-for and safe properties. The Member referenced the electrical checks. That is something to bear in mind. <BR /> <BR />The motion calls on the whole Executive and for good reason. It is a complex, cross-departmental issue, and Ministers need to work together to find a sustainable way forward. I have a couple of thoughts on that. One of the moves should be towards diversification and sustainability.”