Andrew McMurray
South Down · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Minister, various greenway projects are mentioned in your statement. Those projects are to be welcomed. Recently, Newry, Mourne and Down District Council announced a feasibility study, part-funded by DFI, for a greenway between Warrenpoint, Kilkeel and Newcastle.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hope that the Minister can respond to some of those concerns directly. As I said, Alliance supports the reclassification of trust ports in principle, and we understand that that requires a limiting of the Department's powers. However, I am convinced that we need to have stronger safeguards.”
“Reclassification requires limiting some of the Department's powers, particularly the power to issue directions to trust ports. Several of my constituents have raised that with me as a major concern, and Ms Ennis also referred to it.”
“I will speak first in my role as the Alliance Party's infrastructure spokesperson and then as MLA for South Down. I echo what the Committee Chairperson said about the approach to the Bill. From the outset, it should be said that we support the ports.”
“Kilkeel and Ardglass ports have great potential for ancillary industries, such as the maintenance and security of offshore energy production. I am on the record as repeatedly calling for more investment in those areas and championing the great benefits that the blue-green economy can bring to the fishing ports in my constituency.”
“That will drive the Northern Ireland economy, and it has the potential to aid and drive the economy in South Down. Belfast Harbour would, through its master plan, like to make large-scale investments in renewable energy infrastructure but is currently severely hampered in that regard.”
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“No. We still need to do the heavy lifting to tackle the issues, and that includes making some difficult decisions. The Bill will, however, open a number of doors. I wholeheartedly support its principles.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are other aspects to the Bill, such as the powers for NI Water to adopt pre-1973 drainage infrastructure, to fix drainage misconnections on private land and recover the cost from the landowner, and to register adoption agreements in the Statutory Charges Register. I have yet to develop a detailed understanding of those issues, so I look forward to scrutinising them at Committee Stage. From what we have heard and researched about them so far, they appear to be sensible. The Alliance Party was broadly supportive of those and other aspects of the Bill at the time of the consultation, and I have no immediate objections at this stage. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for introducing the Bill, which will put in place the conditions to allow us to tackle several important issues in the future. Will the legislation be enough?”
“We do not yet know the outcome of that, but, having spoken to many stakeholders over the past few years, I remain to be convinced that developer contributions will bring about significant improvements. <BR /> <BR />Finally, there is the commitment to working with Executive colleagues to find more money where, frankly, there is not much going spare. I remain very concerned about the Minister's overall approach to addressing the waste water crisis. Her party voted to do whatever it takes to save Lough Neagh, so I call on the Minister to deliver on that commitment and to face the fact that the way in which Northern Ireland Water is currently financed is not working.”
“There is no silver bullet, but SuDS can certainly make an important contribution to solving many serious issues that we face, from flooding to sewer capacity and thus water pollution and its effects on places such as Lough Neagh. I very much welcome and support that aspect of the Bill as well. That said, we face a severe waste water crisis, and the legislation will largely impact on new developments. It will mitigate the extent to which new developments make things worse, but it will not make much of a difference to the enormous problem that is already there. <BR /> <BR />We have heard a lot about the Minister's three-pronged approach, of which the Bill is an important part. The second part is the consultation on developer contributions.”
“Including such a power would not oblige her to introduce such a scheme but would at least give her the ability to do so. <BR /> <BR />I will comment on the sustainable drainage system (SuDS) element of the Bill, which proposes to allow the Department to issue guidance on the design, maintenance and adoption of sustainable drainage systems. We will still be a long way from the guidance being in place, but the proposed powers will help us to get there. I had the opportunity to attend a DFI event on SuDS some weeks ago where I learned a lot about the benefits as well as the pitfalls. It opened my eyes to the complexity of the matter, and it is important that the guidance be put in place. There can be no doubt for me that SuDS must form an important part of managing water in the years to come.”
“Not all businesses have been able to recover from that event, even with the financial support offered by the Minister for the Economy, which shows how devastating flooding incidents can be. I know that DFI is planning bigger flood alleviation measures in the town. Putting those in place will take years, and there are worries that they might never materialise. I am concerned that local businesses will be unable to protect themselves from flooding in the meantime or to recover if they are hit again. A scheme like the homeowner flood protection grant but for commercial premises would be hugely welcome in Downpatrick. I urge the Minister to consider including in the Bill a power to make similar grants to protect commercial properties.”
“<BR /> <BR />I also welcome the proposal to put the homeowner flood protection grant scheme on a statutory footing. The pilot in my constituency has been important, especially in Newcastle, where domestic properties in the Marguerite and Donard Park areas have been repeatedly flooded. It is accepted that the pilot has had its imperfections: delivery has been slow at times, and there have been issues with eligibility requirements and so on. The Minister has made improvements in the past year that have been welcomed on the ground. Irrespective of its imperfections, it has been an important pilot scheme, and I am glad that the Bill will, in principle, allow it to continue. <BR /> <BR />Flooding can also have a severe impact on our local economies. We have seen that in Downpatrick, where Market Street was severely hit by the 2023 flood.”
“Hosepipe bans have not often been necessary here, thankfully, but climate change is changing that, as we see more extreme weather events, wet and dry. Only last week, the Republic of Ireland extended hosepipe bans in parts of Counties Meath, Westmeath and Donegal that are set to remain in place until October. It is sobering to think that droughts are becoming an issue on the island of Ireland, even in the autumn. We are right to prepare for that. The Bill includes powers to ban some additional non-essential uses of water, such as filling or maintaining domestic pools. We need to keep it in mind that the aim of a hosepipe ban is to ensure that the supply of drinking water to the public is not put at risk. Wasteful use of water is hard to justify in times of drought, so I welcome that aspect of the Bill.”
“This important legislation will, hopefully, strengthen resilience in the face of heavy rain and drought, both of which we see more of these days as a result of climate change. We are also told that it will help reduce pollution in watercourses and facilitate more environmentally friendly solutions in managing water resources. Those are all important goals that the Alliance Party has championed for a long time, so we naturally welcome the fact that the Minister has presented the Bill, and we would like to see it progress. <BR /> <BR />I support the proposal to expand temporary hosepipe bans to allow restrictions on a wider range of non-essential uses in times of drought. At the moment, watering gardens and washing cars are the only activities that can be restricted.”
“See you when you get back. I welcome the new Chair, Mr Martin, to his role. Mr McNulty is not here. It would have been good if Mr McNulty and Mr Martin had introduced themselves to the Committee, but they covered that in the debate on road maintenance last night, so that is all good. I am glad that Mr Boylan got in to speak before me; otherwise, some of the old hands on the Committee might have taken umbrage at those who have served least time getting in ahead of them, so it is good to see a bit of balance restored. <BR /> <BR />Anyway, on to the matter in hand. I welcome the Second Stage of the Water, Sustainable Drainage and Flood Management Bill, and I support its principles and intent.”
“I am OK for time, I think, Mr Deputy Speaker. I do not want to be chastised for straying too far from the subject of the debate, but I want to make a few brief remarks. <BR /> <BR />I associate myself with the remarks directed to Mrs Erskine. While her presence on the Committee and in the Chamber will be missed, we wish her all the best. Tóg go bog é.”
“I note that, last week, Mary Peters was at the 5k and that, this week, we have the World Athletics Championships, so it great to see sport at all levels, which is always to be welcomed. <BR /> <BR />Has a full equality impact assessment been done of the requirement for smaller, less affluent clubs to raise money? Is there a risk that larger clubs will be able to access more funding for similar-sized projects? As has been said, everyone wants to see clubs of all sizes benefit, and there are many small clubs in rural constituencies.”
“I welcome the Department's finalisation of work on a draft maintenance strategy, and I hope that the Minister will bring that forward in the near future. We have been assured that the new strategy will help the Department make better use of its road maintenance budget, but, given the severe budgetary constraints, I am keen to hear from the Minister about whether she is confident that the new strategy can be delivered.”
“He wants to thank Martyn Boyd of the Motorcycle Action Group UK (MAG-UK), who presented to the Committee last year on the impact of potholes on his motorbike. He also thanks North Down Advanced Motorists (NDAM) and the Ards and North Down Cycle Campaign group for engaging with him in advance of today about the significant and positive impact road maintenance has on active travel and cycling. <BR /> <BR />We need to spend our money more efficiently and avoid waste across the board. We routinely see colossal overspends on major capital projects, and day-to-day business could also be done more efficiently. That needs to be tackled to ensure that more money is available to fund the various priorities in the Department, including road maintenance.”
“Earlier today, at Question Time, the Minister confirmed that she hopes to finalise a draft road maintenance strategy soon that will make better use of her limited budget. However, the question remains about the strategy that she envisages to make her limited resources go even further. Everything in the Minister's portfolio is severely underfunded. NI Water sucks up huge amounts of resources, and it is getting nowhere in reducing sewage pollution. The state of our roads is another symptom of the fact that we are failing to manage our resources sustainably. Resolving that problem is, in part, a job for the Finance Minister, and multi-year Budgets will help greatly by giving certainty of funding and facilitating better planning. <BR /> <BR />My colleague, Peter McReynolds, cannot be here tonight.”
“The situation has come about from years of underinvestment, and both cause and outcome remain fundamentally unchanged. If anything, things are getting worse. In the Alliance Party, we want to see less reliance on private cars and a greater emphasis on public transport and active travel. I try to practise what I preach and sometimes take the bus and bike to get to this place from Downpatrick and Castlewellan. However, that cannot take away from the fact that the road network will always be an essential piece of infrastructure, especially in rural areas. <BR /> <BR />The reality is that the Minister has huge and costly challenges across her portfolio. Her budget is very constrained, and the recent June monitoring round brought zero additional funding for road maintenance.”
“I thank the Minister for her attendance. The poor state of our roads is no secret, and I can hardly disagree with the motion's sentiment. Less than a year ago, I spoke in an Adjournment debate on the road repairs required in South Down. At that time, Newry, Mourne and Down District Council area had the highest number of surface defects in Northern Ireland by a substantial margin. It also had the worst ratio of potholes to road length and the highest number of compensation claims. The Minister and I, in previous roles, served together as councillors in Newry, Mourne and Down for a number of years, so I know that she is familiar, maybe overly familiar, with many of the roads in South Down. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, the situation continues to get worse, and many constituents in South Down feel left behind.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. While it is great to see Rathfriland Rangers on the list, there is disappointment from the very north-west to Warrenpoint Town Football Club in the very south-east. The Minister has said that all clubs will progress but "Not yet" to the 17 that were rejected, and that much money will be spent over the years. What funding requests will the Minister make for the clubs that have been rejected, given that they all passed the assessed need test? How long will clubs and communities have to continue waiting?”
“I thank the Minister for that answer, which leads in to my second question. What assurances can he give that the Department is investigating ways to improve hospital transport provision for less urgent and outpatient appointments?”
“As is well noted, our rivers are in poor ecological health, and some of our rivers and streams are distilled into Lough Neagh. The environment, by its very nature, is connected. <BR /> <BR />I have had the opportunity to sponsor events in the Building highlighting the work of the Clean Water Sports Alliance. That the motion seeks to highlight the societal impacts of the issue is important. Angling, open-water swimming, canoeing, kayaking, stand-up paddleboarding, rowing, sailing and triathlon are the sports that make up the alliance, and those sports have been adversely affected by the state of our waterways. It is an issue for all of Northern Ireland, and we urgently need the Executive and the parties that are in opposition to play their part.”
“Our waste water systems are failing, and there are all the environmental and economic consequences that go with that, yet the Minister refuses to tackle NI Water's governance and finances. All sectors must play a part in tackling the crisis. The farmers whom I speak to expect fairness. They are dismayed at the fact that the Infrastructure Minister refuses to step up to the plate and tackle waste water infrastructure. She needs to look at better solutions and make the difficult decisions within her remit without delay. <BR /> <BR />This is not only about Lough Neagh, as the motion acknowledges. My South Down constituency does not border the lough, but we see the same issues in some of our fresh waterbodies, not least Castlewellan lake. I am also conscious of the fact that the headwaters of the River Bann are in my constituency.”
“In addition to that, it is strengthening the environmental governance through the establishment of an independent environmental protection agency (EPA), agreeing a final climate action plan and supporting his new fisheries and water environment Bill. <BR /> <BR />Finally, we cannot think about solving the crisis in Lough Neagh and our waterways in general without thinking about sewage and waste water infrastructure. Minister Muir has been clear about his desire to strengthen the regulation and enforcement of sewage pollution being pumped into our waterways. It is totally unacceptable that the Infrastructure Minister refuses to tackle that head-on and reverse the disgraceful situation where raw sewage is being pumped into our waterways.”
“It is obvious that the ecological and environmental balance of the lough is off-kilter, but we in the Chamber and the Executive have a responsibility to lead on what the Minister is doing. <BR /> <BR />All parties like to highlight the plight of Lough Neagh, but sometimes the rhetoric does not marry up with their actions. The Minister has stressed a number of big-ticket items that he is to bring forward, which will truly test the Executive and other Members in the Chamber on how committed they are to solving the issue. The first has been touched on already around agreeing proposals for the nutrients action programme.”
“Thankfully, the Minister was not deterred, and the nutrients action programme consultation went ahead and, regardless, has now concluded. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that the Minister is now moving forward with a stakeholder group of environmental and agricultural representatives to develop revised proposals. Finalised proposals will be put to further consultation before being brought through the Executive for consideration. I hope that Executive parties and the Opposition will rally around the Minister in this opportunity to be constructive and find solutions that are workable at farm level. It is too important an issue to play politics with, so, rather than cheap political point-scoring and stoking angst, all parties need to do the right thing, recognise the urgency of the situation and get behind the necessary actions.”
“That includes necessary actions, such as reversing the cap on cross-compliance penalties for repeat offenders, which was brought in by his DUP predecessor. That was an important moment that should have signalled the Assembly's support for ensuring that there are consequences for pollution, yet it was blocked by other Executive parties, and, regrettably, the SDLP did not support the Minister at that juncture. That said, the Opposition changed course later in the summer when Sinn Féin, the DUP and the UUP called for the Minister to abandon his consultation on the nutrients action programme. The aforementioned parties did not want to begin talking about the NAP. They wanted to scrap the NAP and the conversation that went with it as an opportunity to seek remedies.”
“At the start, I want to make it clear that the burden of solving Lough Neagh cannot be borne by DAERA alone. It is incumbent on the whole Executive and everyone in the Chamber to help deliver the Programme for Government commitment to protect Lough Neagh. While agriculture undoubtedly must play its part, we cannot address the issue without addressing our failing waste water infrastructure. It is time for an Infrastructure Minister to stop the sticking-plaster approach and solve the waste water and sewage crisis flowing into our waterways. <BR /> <BR />That said, I will start with Minister Muir's efforts to address agriculture's contribution to the blue-green algae blooms that are blighting Lough Neagh and state for the record how other parties have failed to back him.”
“Minister, can you provide an update on the roll-out of the sustainable agriculture programme (SAP)?”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. From that, will the Minister consider some of the proposals, if they are applicable to Northern Ireland, in order to help our businesses?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Given the growth of renewables, specifically offshore renewables, what assurances can the Minister give to the industries in South Down that any forthcoming finances and policies will be regionally balanced?”
“Minister, what will the impact be on the Loughs Agency when the new fisheries and water environment Bill comes into effect?”
“Will the Minister provide an update on Northern Ireland's first climate action plan?”
“It is imperative that Sport NI and the Department for Communities look at ways in which a model can be operated to reopen the centre as soon as possible. The centre regularly hosted community groups, local schools and schools from across Northern Ireland, and provided training courses for instructors. Its closure has a knock-on effect on the ability to take people outside safely. As we have all seen, there has been a growth in interest in outdoor pursuits and activities and the role that they can play, not least since the COVID pandemic.”
“The centre was established after an atrocity in the Cairngorms, and it provided training in outdoor pursuits after other incidents, such as the Lyme Bay tragedy. <BR /> <BR />It is important to highlight the connection between the outdoors, positive mental health and physical well-being. Those connections have been well proven, and more should be done to encourage young people and adults to get outside. Not all sport is played on grass pitches that are marked out with whitewashed lines. It is important to state that. <BR /> <BR />Tollymore National Outdoor Centre was an integral part of the outdoor pursuits landscape in south Down, and, unfortunately, the number of centres in south Down has reduced substantially over the past number of years.”
“I rise to speak about the prolonged closure of Tollymore National Outdoor Centre in Bryansford, just outside Newcastle. I have a personal connection in that I attended courses at the centre as a teenager and gained a number of qualifications there after university. I went on to pursue a career in the outdoors. I met my wife at the centre, so I have lots of good memories of the place. I went on to introduce my children to outdoor activities through the centre, but I cannot do that at the minute because it is closed. <BR /> <BR />My thoughts are very much with the staff who are no longer employed at the centre as a result of the closure and with all the staff who have been associated with the centre over the years.”
“Minister, as part of your discussions with the Department for Infrastructure and the EA, will you raise the matter of and support changes to the physical infrastructure leading to and from schools in order to ensure the safety of the pupils and staff who attend them? I am sure that that is an issue for many rural schools, not least those that have seen towns grow up around them, with the challenges that that poses. Rathfriland High School in my constituency faces that problem.”
“Thank you, Minister. Minister, you mentioned the roll-out across the organisation of an emergency response service. I am curious to know what that service would entail and what functions it would be likely to perform.”
“Minister, given the castle's location and potential, particularly once the Narrow Water bridge project is finished, will you consider working with Executive colleagues and the Shared Island unit to look at the development of the site?”
“What work is the Minister doing to support the local fishing industry?”
“There is a simple logic diagram on the motion. Is what is going on in Gaza wrong? If the answer is, "Yes", which it is, the logic diagram points to supporting the motion. As my mother would say, "Wrong is wrong". <BR /> <BR />Putting politics aside, I thank the individuals, groups, NGOs and political parties that have helped me to turn and face this situation.”
“I was not sure about whether to continue because there is a lot of chuntering. I know that you like robust debate.”
“I have no problem condemning the terrorist actions of Hamas. Not a problem. I have already done it. You have asked me the same question again, but that is OK.”
“There are still people who will not let divisions become chasms, although there is a danger of that happening, with all the associated intergenerational trauma. Our present attitude is about building a secure peace for the future of Israel and Palestine. <BR /> <BR />We support the motion. There are a lot of elements to it. I am not an expert on those elements, and the experts do not always agree on them. For me, there is a simple logic diagram to follow —.”
“I am not sure that I can vote for the amendment, mostly because it removes the motion's reference to arms sales and transfers, which is essentially what is causing a lot of this. I am afraid that I cannot do that. <BR /> <BR />Again, I point to the positives. We have Wahat Salam/Neve Shalom, which translates as "Oasis of Peace". That is a settlement of Israelis and Palestinians who are trying to live together. I recall the conversation with visiting Professor Mazin Qumsiyeh, a Christian Palestinian who lives in Bethlehem. He said that he observes Ramadan and his Muslim friends observe Christmas and Lent because, as he put it:”
“Ms Nicholl has been working closely with the Palestinian community here, many of whom have lost family members in Gaza. I am proud of Kate and how she has turned to face the issue. In doing so, she has helped me to turn and face it. I also thank those in my constituency who have organised around the issue. Constituents have taken Palestinian children into their homes, and there are constituents who have had quiet conversations with me on the subject and articulated their views. You have all helped me to turn and face the issue. <BR /> <BR />There are granules of hope. Not every Palestinian supports the terrorism of Hamas, and not every Israeli supports the political trajectory of Netanyahu.”
“By my maths, if three million meals are going to two million people, that is half a day's worth of food per person. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge the work of my colleague Kate Nicholl. As Members may know, she cannot be here today, and thus I have the chance to turn and face some of the horrors.”
“<BR /> <BR />My commute from Castlewellan to Ballynahinch, Carryduff, Forestside and then Stormont is pretty much the length of the Gaza Strip, but what a world away: the drumlins of south Down compared with the militarised zone and associated encampments of two million people, the majority of whom are displaced. Some 92% of houses and 70% of structures have been destroyed. That is the reality of the militarised zone that is the Gaza Strip. <BR /> <BR />The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have said that roads leading to aid hubs are to be considered combat zones. A road to aid is to be considered a combat zone: I cannot comprehend that. The Red Cross has said that no one should die while trying to get aid for themselves and their families or while giving aid to others, but, unfortunately, that has come to pass.”
“As a parent of two children and a husband, how could I look? I could not process the images that I was seeing, so I turned away. <BR /> <BR />Although the current situation seems intractable, it has not always been thus. In preparing for the debate and reading around the subject, I was brought back to the early 1990s and to my first politically conscious thought on the region, which was that Yitzhak Rabin, Yasser Arafat and Bill Clinton were peacebuilders. It was also around that time that I noticed our own predisposition to the issue: Star of David Israeli flags went up on one side of the Ormeau Bridge, while Palestinian flags went up on the other. I turned away again. After listening to some of the interactions between the first few Members who have spoken, I feel like turning away again. It is brutal. I can turn away no longer.”
“I speak today as an Alliance Party MLA, but, perhaps more than that, I turn my face to look at the issue. I admit that I have not always done so. As Jeremy Bowen, the BBC's international editor, put it:”
“Minister, the summer recess is nearly upon us. What actions will be taken to address the issues raised in the judgement around habitats regulations and general environmental law before the autumn?”
“Thank you, Minister. By way of a follow-up, what is the Minister's assessment of the difference that those proposed changes would make?”