Stephen Kerr
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“My first priority is to prevent crime before it happens and, as a consequence, to reduce the number of victims. Therefore, the Government will continue to intervene early to steer people away from crime and focus on areas such as substance dependency, health, poverty, homelessness and employability, which are all significant contributing…”
“Alongside more places, a smarter approach to custody is needed, and I remain committed to using all levers at our disposal, including continuing to expand the use of home detention curfew, which supports reintegration of individuals by providing for their structured return to the community.”
“I expect HMP Highland to be completed in spring 2027— which is later than planned, due to construction issues—and HMP Glasgow, which I visited last week, is due to be completed in 2028.”
“I recognise that the proposed changes are bold, and I hope that they can contribute to a thoughtful debate today on the consequences of not addressing the rise in our prison population. The outcomes of any sentence for a crime committed should be that justice is served and no further reoffending happens.”
“That is why my priority is the prevention of crime and further reoffending behaviour. That approach makes financial sense: every prison place costs us more than £52,000 a year; this financial year, we are spending nearly £510 million in resource funding for the Scottish Prison Service to run our jails.”
“Yi-pei Chou Turvey sums things up very well. This whole issue has been at the bottom of the to-do list—that is exactly where we are. The title of the Government’s motion, which is the subject of today’s debate, is: “Achieving a sustainable prison population”. We can all share that perfectly reasonable objective.”
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Every one of 1,212 lines we hold for Stephen Kerr, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 10 of 25.
“Local authorities ultimately retain all the non- domestic rates revenue that they raise to help fund the local services that they provide, and the non- domestic rates income is forecast to raise more than £3 billion this year. The principle of devolution allows the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament to take budgetary decisions to meet Scottish priorities. Stephen Kerr: Still no answer. Ivan McKee: This is an important point—listen and learn something. Decisions on non-domestic rates policy for 2026-27, including rates and reliefs, are considered in the context of prevailing economic conditions and other Government priorities, as well as affordability.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Ivan McKee: I will if I have time. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I can give you some time back, but not all of it. Stephen Kerr: We are three minutes and 46 seconds into his speech and the minister has not addressed a single one of the concerns that were raised by Murdo Fraser. Is he going to talk about the concerns that businesses have, or is his speech going to be one long liturgy of self- congratulation? Ivan McKee: I cannot do right for doing wrong. I have taken three interventions in order to have a proper debate, and I am making progress through my remarks. If members would listen to what I have to say, they might hear the answers to those points.”
“I have a high degree of trust in the United Nations and I hope that he does, too. Providing humanitarian support through the United Nations and its agencies is the right thing to do. If Mr Kerr has specific concerns, he should share them with me, and I will reply in greater detail. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes portfolio questions on constitution, external affairs and culture, and parliamentary business. There will be a brief pause before we move to the next portfolio, to allow members on the front benches to change over. Justice and Home Affairs The Deputy Presiding Officer: The next portfolio is justice and home affairs. I make the usual plea for members who are looking to ask for a supplementary question to be as brief as possible, and likewise for the responses. Legal Aid (Rural and Island Communities) 1.”
“It would be more factually correct to say that the cabinet secretary cannot say exactly how the £600,000 was spent, because it went into a greater fund. Can he confirm that none of the money from the fund will pass through organisations or intermediaries over which Hamas has influence or control? Can he explain how that is verified in practice? Angus Robertson: That is not the first time that the member has raised those questions, and other colleagues have done so, too. Those questions are part of my considerations. We want to make sure that there is assurance on the delivery of humanitarian support in Gaza and through other projects around the world. I am assured by the advice that I have received. If Mr Kerr requires additional assurance, I would be grateful if he could write to me on the subject.”
“In conclusion, I note that this is hardly a great time for the UK to pull the rug from underneath the system of Government support that has, until now, supported Scotland’s fishing communities. I urge colleagues across the chamber to continue to exert pressure on the UK Government and to fight for fair funding for Scotland’s fishing industry and coastal communities. That is the least that they deserve from us. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to the open debate. I call Tim Eagle. Stephen Kerr: Hear, hear. 14:19”
“I note that Dr Allan referenced a lack of vocalised response to the apportionment of the support funds that he has identified. I want to make it absolutely clear that the shadow Secretary of State for Scotland, Andrew Bowie, has condemned the apportionment. He has made it absolutely clear that, in his words, it is “disgraceful” and that “This Labour Government has ... no regard for Scotland’s totemic fishing industry”. I do not think that we could be clearer about our position as Scottish Conservatives than in the words of Andrew Bowie. Alasdair Allan: I am happy for Andrew Bowie’s words to be on the record and to accept what Stephen Kerr says about his stance and his party’s stance on the issue.”
“In the time that I have left, I will talk about one specific thing. We must not believe that there is somehow an endless supply of well-motivated, brilliant small businesspeople in this country, because there is not. They are a precious commodity and the backbone of our economy. We all agree with that, but if we want more businesses to exist in Scotland, we have to stop pretending that those people will suddenly pop up. Businesses emerge from a culture, and the thing that most concerns me in our country is that we need to nourish the spirit of enterprise and entrepreneurship, which is not going to happen in a vacuum.”
“The left like to emphasise, as Pam Duncan-Glancy did, the importance of Government spending in supporting small businesses, whereas people of a more conservative persuasion like to think that there is some truth in the famous saying by Ronald Reagan: “I’ve always felt the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: ‘I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.’” He said that 40 years ago next year, but it is still true. Most businesspeople whom I have come across have one simple request for politicians: “Get out of the way and let us get on with running our businesses.” They make that simple request, but what they get from this Parliament in particular is an unending torrent of regulation and interference that just gets in the way of business, adds to their costs and takes them away from their driving purpose.”
“I will speak briefly and will not try to compete with any of my parliamentary colleagues’ recitations of the names of local small businesses that deserve praise and support. We are here to celebrate those businesses, and I am grateful to Rachael Hamilton for bringing the debate to the chamber. It is interesting to listen to colleagues in Parliament talking about businesses in general and small businesses in particular, because there is a clear dichotomy between left and right.”
“This is not an abstract debate about structures; it is about how people are treated, whether warnings are listened to and whether those who speak up are protected. Whistleblowers take personal risks when they raise concerns, and Parliament has a duty to ensure that those warnings lead to scrutiny and reform, not silence. When a section 22 report echoes what whistleblowers have been saying for years, ministers must be prepared to explain why earlier intervention did not happen.”
“The report points to long-running problems in procurement, data handling, financial discipline and leadership arrangements. It highlights the absence, until very recently, of a substantive accountable officer, and it describes an organisation where basic disciplines are not applied consistently or enforced robustly. What gives the report its real weight is what it says and what it confirms about people. Staff and whistleblowers warn that Historic Environment Scotland is at risk of collapse. They speak of a toxic culture, deep frustration and concerns that, although raised repeatedly, have not been acted upon. The Auditor General acknowledges that issues have been persistent for years and have been covered up rather than resolved.”
“Many of them are highly skilled professionals who are entrusted with assets that, once damaged or lost, are gone for good. When governance fails in such an organisation, the consequences are real. They are felt by staff, communities and the public, who expect those national assets to be protected properly. That is why a section 22 report matters. Audit Scotland does not issue section 22 reports lightly. They are reserved for situations where the Auditor General feels that Parliament must be alerted to serious and systemic concerns. In this case, the report describes unacceptable weaknesses in governance, failures of control and risks to value for money. The Auditor General is clear that strong controls are now critical to prevent the risk of fraud and to restore confidence. Those are not minor or technical issues.”
“I am seeking parliamentary time to scrutinise the Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture on the findings of Audit Scotland’s section 22 report on Historic Environment Scotland. This issue begins with Historic Environment Scotland itself. [Interruption.] Whatever the hilarity on the Government’s front bench is, surely it is not happening because of the state of Historic Environment Scotland. Historic Environment Scotland is not a peripheral body. It is the steward of more than 300 historic properties and the guardian of national collections and archives. It is central to Scotland’s cultural identity and to a tourism economy on which many communities depend. Across the country, around 1,600 people work for HES.”
“She has never shied away from asking tough questions about our approach to justice, nor has she ever avoided tackling some of the biggest issues that we face. For those reasons, Angela Constance has my full confidence as justice secretary. She is getting on with the job of making Scotland safer, and I urge members to enable her to continue doing that by rejecting the motion. 14:44”
“The First Minister: That act will transform victims’ and witnesses’ experiences of the justice system and ensure that they are treated with compassion. As all those bills were progressed, the justice secretary worked constructively and collegiately with members from across the chamber. She approached all their suggestions to improve the bills with an open mind. Throughout her term in office, she has worked tirelessly to build a safer Scotland. She has championed the rights of victims and has worked to improve the conditions of those who serve across our criminal justice system. She has made justice more accessible to all, and in particular to those who have suffered some of the most serious crimes.”
“There is vital work to be done to protect children, and getting on with that work has been what my Government has been doing, just as it has been getting on with a raft of other reforms. For example, in justice, Angela Constance, in the past 18 months, has successfully steered four crucial acts through the Parliament, including the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Act 2025, which delivers the biggest reforms for victims of crime in the history of devolution. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Sorry, First Minister. There is a lot of noise in the chamber. I would very much like to hear those whom I have called to speak, and I am sure that other parliamentarians would, too.”
“That is absolutely scandalous. The Presiding Officer: Mr Kerr! Thank you. The First Minister: I acknowledge that members of Parliament and members of the public will draw different conclusions from the words that we all use. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear the First Minister. The First Minister: I know—and I imagine that most members know this, too—that Angela Constance is a sincere minister who would never address Parliament in a way that would in any way mislead Parliament or the public. That is evident to me from the way in which Angela Constance has, over a period of almost two years, openly and with candour, shared with Parliament the very acute challenges that we face in dealing with the rising prison population and the incredibly difficult decisions that we must take on this issue.”
“I move amendment S6M-20056.2, to leave out from first “believes” to end and insert: “notes with concern Audit Scotland’s recent assessment of a ‘funding gap for devolved social security spending of £2.0 billion by 2029/30’ and the absence of a ‘detailed strategy for how [the Scottish Government] will manage the forecast gap between social security funding and spending’; welcomes the announcement in the 2025 UK Budget of the removal of the two-child limit for universal credit, noting that this will lift an estimated 450,000 children across the UK out of poverty and that, in the assessment of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, ‘the projected fall in child poverty over the current parliament would be the biggest on record’; believes that this must be followed by a renewed focus in Scotland on tackling the causes of poverty and boosting the means of defeating it, such as employability, housing and education, and further believes that the long- term solution to breaking the generational cycle of poverty in Scotland must include supporting people into sustainable and well-paid work.” 15:05”
“The disability employment gap in Scotland is wider than that in the rest of the UK, with almost 300,000 working-age people in Scotland out of work because of illness. In conclusion, Scotland needs a Government that sets out a credible plan for funding its commitments; that aligns social security with opportunity; and that uses every lever at its disposal to improve people’s lives.”
“In Scotland, after 18 years of SNP Government, relative child poverty after housing costs has fallen by just 1 per cent. The Government’s own targets will not be met unless there is urgent action in the areas where it has fallen short. That must include investing properly in employability services, rather than cutting £30 million from budgets, and addressing Scotland’s housing emergency, which currently leaves 10,000 children in temporary accommodation. We cannot talk seriously about tackling poverty without addressing the central role of work. For those who can work, secure employment is the most sustainable route out of poverty. Parents need flexible work options, affordable childcare and targeted support to enable them to get into, and progress in, the labour market. Too many young people are not in education, employment or training.”
“Let us be clear: the two-child cap was—as I have said—a deliberate Conservative policy choice, and it pushed families into poverty and imposed long-term costs on health, education and economic potential. Removing it was the right thing to do, and the decision was taken at the right time, when it could be delivered sustainably and responsibly. However, the nature of child poverty has changed. Nearly three quarters of children in poverty in Scotland are in working households. Poverty today is not simply an issue of unemployment—it is about low pay, insecurity and the rising cost of essential goods. That is why action such as increasing the national living wage, raising the basic rate of universal credit, supporting energy bills and strengthening employment rights matter. Those measures help working families to stay afloat.”
“Will Claire Baker give way on that point? Claire Baker: I am very short of time—sorry. The Scottish Government has chosen to expand entitlements, but those choices must be matched with credible financial planning. Warm words do not fund commitments; responsible government does. The announcement in the UK budget of the removal of the two-child limit is a significant anti- poverty measure, and it should be welcomed. It will lift an estimated 450,000 children across the UK out of poverty, including around 95,000 in Scotland. It is the single most cost-effective action to drive down child poverty rates, and it is unquestionably the right thing to do.”
“Kate Forbes: It varies, but I engage with the O and P plant, on average, about once a month, which reflects the site’s importance. I completely agree with Stephen Kerr’s emphasis on the importance of the site. There are on-going conversations with the United Kingdom Government on the bulk of any support that would be required for the plant, but the Scottish Government has also explored options for support. Ultimately—and I guess that this will create some frustration—a lot of the information is very commercially sensitive, as Stephen Kerr will appreciate. However, I assure him that engagement is taking place, on average, once a month, and that the issue forms part of the agenda for my direct engagement with UK Government ministers, such is the importance of the plant. Gaelic School Provision 6.”
“The Deputy First Minister has talked about support for manufacturing, but communities across Forth Valley are still waiting for basic transparency about the future of the Ineos Olefins and Polymers plant at Grangemouth. I have written to the Deputy First Minister a couple of times to seek some detailed answers about the Government’s contingency planning for the site, but I have not yet seen any detail. Given the scale of the risk to hundreds of highly skilled jobs and to Scotland’s wider industrial base, will the Deputy First Minister set out what contingency planning is in place for the O and P plant, which Scottish Government directorates are leading the work and when the Parliament will finally be given a transparent plan, rather than reassurances that, sadly, have too often not matched reality in the past?”
“It is not, and no number of amendments will make the bill useful—I am sorry, but it is not possible. I say to Ben Macpherson that we judge the SNP by Nicola Sturgeon’s famous declaration to judge her on education. We judge the SNP on education. The SNP has failed Scotland. 16:24”
“For heaven’s sake, it also covers zero-hours contracts, which must be anathema to members on the Government side of the chamber. A positive destination includes an occasional hour or two of work in a charity shop. That is not what we want for Scotland’s young people. Those are not fully explored positive destination. That brings me back to the unique learner number. We do not know what we do not know. If we are to be able to craft public policy that responds to the situations that we are dealing with in Scotland, we need to have that data. I see that my time is up. I hope that we can come together on these issues at least. I think that the minister is sincere, but does he really believe that the Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill is the answer to any of this?”
“My mum and dad expected things of my sister and me, and we were the first members of my dad’s family to go to university. I bet that many other members can tell a similar story. That was about opportunity, and my politics and the politics of those of us on this side of the chamber are about maximising and widening access to those opportunities. When I look at the Government’s record, I think that it provides the very opposite of fairness. The Government often hides behind phoney statistics, and one of the most phoney statistics of them all relates to the concept of the so-called positive destination. It is totally bogus to trade in that statistic. It does not mean anything. It tracks people three months after they leave school, and it covers casual work as well as education, training and employment.”
“People can make of their lives what they like, and I do not buy into the idea that the end product—the outcome—needs to be based on equality, because that does not represent a free society. However, I absolutely believe that we should promote the idea of equality of opportunity at every turn of the wheel. I am a product of parents who believed in hard work, taking opportunities and making the most of them. I do not know whether I pleased or disappointed my parents—I am sure that I will find out one day when I meet them again. The point is that we live in a country where that fairness and equality of opportunity is not what it should be. I grew up on a council estate. My dad was a butcher who worked for the Co-op, and my mum worked in a paper shop and wrote the papers in the morning for the paper boys.”
“It is tackled by enabling people to live the life of dignity that they want for themselves—the famous hand up, not handout. That is the direction of travel that we should be taking, and Brian Whittle is right to point that out. The fundamental problem across all the different aspects of public policy in Scotland is the lack of data. It astonishes me that, time after time, I come to the chamber to listen to ministers telling us that they do not really know the nature of the problem because they do not have the data, and that is absolutely true in this area. I am absolutely clear that my whole reason for wanting to be in politics is rooted in a belief in fairness and the principle of equality of opportunity. That is what defines my conservatism.”
“Brian Whittle: Does Stephen Kerr agree that there is a correlation between the size of the welfare budget and the size of the education budget and that, if we got education right, we would be able to reduce the welfare budget? Stephen Kerr: Reducing the welfare budget is a noble objective of any Government that is worth its salt, because that means that we will beat the problem that we all want to beat, which is ingrained intergenerational poverty. If we are serious about doing that, we will see not burgeoning, climbing or exponentially increasing welfare budgets but resources being switched to solving the root causes of the problems, rather than just dealing with symptoms. The Government’s short-termism is one of the most shocking aspects of its performance. Child poverty cannot be dealt with simply by increasing welfare payments.”
“Stephen Kerr: I do not think that I am being overly gloomy by referring to the Government’s own statistics on what is happening in quintile 1. We have learned that 16.8 per cent of 16 to 24- year-olds across Scotland are not in employment, education or training. We can congratulate ourselves on minuscule levels of improvement or we can look at the hard facts, which should be uncomfortable for us all. By the way, in Glasgow, that figure is 20 per cent, and in Inverclyde—the member for Inverclyde is in the chamber—it is 17 per cent. We should be filled with an inspirational form of dissatisfaction and be saying that that is not good enough for Scotland in the 21st century.”
“Frankly, we should look at what the real world looks like, rather than looking at it through the starry eyes that George Adam chose to look at it through. We must look at the reality of what the Government’s own statistics say about the nature of what is happening, particularly among the SIMD20 cohort. Ben Macpherson: In a very challenging fiscal context, which is a result of many matters that are outwith the Scottish Government’s control, significant progress has been made—I mentioned the 37 per cent increase in the number of Scots from deprived areas taking degrees—since the Government took power. Mr Kerr said that we should not look at the situation through starry eyes, but does he agree that we should not look at it through overly gloomy eyes?”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to follow Martin Whitfield, who gave an excellent speech. In fact, there have been quite a few really good speeches in the debate. As is the norm on a Thursday afternoon, there has been a lot of common ground among members of different parties—if only that would serve as the bedrock for action, as Martin Whitfield said. He was right to focus on the need for a unique learner number. The report that we are debating is an excellent cross-party report by an award-winning committee with an award-winning convener, and it is right that we are spending time considering it. I was disappointed that George Adam described the alternative views and the critique that some members were offering as “dystopian”. That is a very strong word, and it is wholly inappropriate.”
“In order to change that, Scotland needs our colleges and universities to be properly supported and to deliver fair access, with clear pathways for students not only into further study but into work. Together, they can help achieve the potential of our young people in the years to come. 15:28”
“In recent years, we have seen significant cuts to the sector. Colleges Scotland’s submission called for a greater focus to be placed on the funding of part- time provision because it would bring benefits for adult returners and those who seek to develop their skills while in employment. The Scottish Conservatives have a vision to reform and increase the number of apprenticeships and to support our college sector. However, the budget in January will be a key test for ministers and it is important that we see whether there is a commitment to our college sector. Widening access to higher education must be about real opportunity. Many of our talented young people are still being held back by background, postcode and circumstance.”
“Some of the private sessions that the committee has held in relation to the bill were the most important ones—for me, anyway—because we heard young people’s evidence about their concerns that, although there has been a lot of success in getting them into further and higher education, whether they are being sustained in it has not been measured or tracked. I hope that it will be recognised that we should not take just getting a young person into an educational institution as success; we need to get them to the end of their time in that institution. That has not been tracked and we need to be honest about it. I hope that ministers will take on board the committee’s recommendations and findings on that. I am concerned that our college sector has become the Cinderella of our education system.”
“It is worth putting on the record that the targets that were set for Robert Gordon University were unable to be met. That was down to the fact that the targets relate to places for students from SIMD 20 areas. The fact that 7.2 per cent of full- time degree entrants at the university in 2023-24 were from SIMD 20 areas is incredibly welcome, but there are not enough SIMD 20 postcodes in the north-east for the university to meet the target. Ministers and the wider Parliament have to acknowledge that—we might hear more on that point from members for the north-east. The progress that is being made to support care-experienced young people is important and the committee will return to that in the new year when the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill goes through Parliament.”
“The university has put graduate employability at the heart of its approach to education, working closely with industry in the north-east—including the fishing industry—to ensure that, through its courses, students gain the knowledge and experience that will allow them to access those career pathways. It provides a wide range of not only compulsory but optional placements to implant people into work. That is a model that I have always advocated for and, last year, it resulted in RGU’s graduate employability rate standing at 96.5 per cent. The university was ranked second in the United Kingdom on graduate employment. We need to look not only to the pathways in education but to the pathways into employment and the opportunities that exist in so many key sectors. The convener touched on the evidence that was provided.”
“Is it not right to say that that loss of lifelong learning happened to coincide with when part-time courses in colleges vanished in Scotland? Miles Briggs: Absolutely. It is a fact that we have lost more than 100,000 places on such courses in our college sector. That has had huge impacts on every part of our society, and we should acknowledge that. I would also like to highlight the work of Robert Gordon University, information on which was provided to the committee. I declare an interest in that I am a graduate of RGU. I loved my time studying in Aberdeen and one of the reasons why I chose to study at Robert Gordon was the fact that it had such a great reputation for graduate employment.”
“We need to ensure that the systems that we put in place and that we publicly fund match that positive outlook. When the Parliament was first reconvened, we used to speak more about the aspiration for lifelong learning—the ability for Scots to access the continuous development of skills and knowledge throughout their life. For many people, that is just not the case and the Parliament does not really talk about lifelong learning any longer. However, I acknowledge the Open University’s briefing, which stated that it has 16,470 students across Scotland, 71 per cent of whom are in employment. That demonstrates the alignment that we need between the provision of education and workforce development. We need to work alongside employers to ensure that we achieve that. Martin Whitfield: I am grateful to Miles Briggs for taking my intervention.”
“We need a new vision for how such advice is delivered and we need different organisations to provide the opportunity for extracurricular work outside school so that we can give our young people the ambition to get what is out there. With my colleague Sharon Dowey, I recently visited the Ayr campus of the University of the West of Scotland. The university is doing a lot of work on the blending of school and university learning. I was hugely impressed by the portfolio of work-based learning and graduate apprenticeship models that it has developed. Those routes offer an alternative pathway into degree-level study for individuals who are employed or wish to go straight into work. Most young people tell us that they want work-based learning.”
“I am grateful to Miles Briggs for going down that path, shocked as I am that he quoted Keir Starmer. The reason for that is that one of my long-standing concerns—I wonder if he shares it—is about the quality of the careers advice that is available to our young people. Most of our young people are lucky to get a few minutes with a careers adviser in their entire secondary school experience, and the range of possibilities that exists is not always clear to them—hence, they often get grouped together and are almost predestined to end up in a place that they did not choose to be in. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I can give you the time back, Mr Briggs. Miles Briggs: I absolutely agree with Stephen Kerr.”
“The Deputy Presiding Officer: Before we move to the next question, I should point out that I have called a number of supplementaries and, although we have a bit of time in hand due to questions not being lodged, I would be grateful if, when questions are asked, we could listen to the answers. Skills Development (North-east Fishing Industry) 6.”
“As I have said, I will be looking at the numbers and the data that come from that, and I will consider what steps we as a Government will take to bring more regularity to the rates. On top of the other measures that we have taken—[Interruption.] I am sorry, but the member is shouting at me from a sedentary position when I am trying to answer his question. Stephen Kerr: Or not answering it. Natalie Don-Innes: What I am saying is that the data will be published, and we will consider next steps, on top of the measures that we have already taken to support the PVI sector.”
“Willie Rennie is right. He has been going on about the private and voluntary sector providers for years and years—and quite right, too. The minister has disclosed that she is about to receive data, so I think that members will want to hear what the timeline is. When will the data be delivered to the minister, and when will the minister come to the chamber with that information? Will we hear anything in this session of Parliament about this burning issue? Natalie Don-Innes: The final report and the data output tables from the ELC cost surveys will be shared with the sector in due course. I believe that the most important thing is to share them with the sector first.”
“How we ensure that we are planning appropriately and retaining people effectively is an important wider challenge for us all to consider. I know that the Government is focused on working across portfolios, and we will have updates on skills in the period ahead. That is also something for the wider Parliament to focus on in this important period in which we want to make sure that we are not only training people for our workforce of the future but ensuring that they stay and can develop.”
“On the same subject, a cohort of qualified midwives are not getting jobs. Yesterday, I hosted a round- table meeting in the Parliament on maternity services, and the issue that came up time and again was the lack of workforce planning. My question to the minister is simple: why has the number of apprenticeship starts in key health roles fallen in some areas in recent years? When will the Government finally produce a joined-up piece of work that gives a clear plan to show how apprenticeships will close those gaps? Ben Macpherson: First, we want to provide equality of access to different educational opportunities, whether in midwifery or in other roles. The fact that we have state-funded education that is free for the learner helps people to enter the profession or area of study that is right for them.”
“We are now being asked to accept, in the case of my amendment, that we do not need explanation or guidance. I do not think that clear statutory guidance is a luxury; it is a bare minimum protection that we should now give ratepayers, councils and assessors, and they should expect it from the Government. Therefore, I will press amendment 3. The Convener: The question is, that amendment 3 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Convener: There will be a division. As this is the first division of the stage, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes to allow members to access the voting system. 14:23 Meeting suspended. 14:29 On resuming— The Convener: We move to the vote on amendment 3. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“I think that some humility on the part of the Scottish Government—and the SNP—is in order. [Interruption.] The Convener: Let us hear Mr Kerr. Stephen Kerr: SNP members are not known for their humility. However, given the mess that we find ourselves in, an apology from the minister might be in order. I have not heard a minister give an apology to everyone concerned. That is why amendment 3 is so important. We have been presented with such a massive legislative failure—that is what we are dealing with—and the Parliament has been asked to correct it, at speed, without all the proper processes being followed and in the name of emergency legislation, when we heard just yesterday that ministers have known about the issue since before the summer recess.”
“The amendment would also have us specify “how the rateable value will be calculated and apportioned in such cases”. The valuation of all non-domestic property is, rightly, a matter for the Scottish assessors, who are independent of central and local government. The independence of valuation is critical for the credibility of the system, and the Scottish Government has no locus to intervene in the objective valuation process. I therefore cannot support the amendment, and I encourage members not to support it either, as it would directly interfere with the powers and responsibilities of local authorities and with the valuation of assessors. The Convener: I call Stephen Kerr to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 3. Stephen Kerr: I am disappointed, but not surprised, to hear the minister’s response.”