Stephen Kerr
Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party · Scotland
“My first priority is to prevent crime before it happens and, as a consequence, to reduce the number of victims. Therefore, the Government will continue to intervene early to steer people away from crime and focus on areas such as substance dependency, health, poverty, homelessness and employability, which are all significant contributing…”
“Alongside more places, a smarter approach to custody is needed, and I remain committed to using all levers at our disposal, including continuing to expand the use of home detention curfew, which supports reintegration of individuals by providing for their structured return to the community.”
“I expect HMP Highland to be completed in spring 2027— which is later than planned, due to construction issues—and HMP Glasgow, which I visited last week, is due to be completed in 2028.”
“I recognise that the proposed changes are bold, and I hope that they can contribute to a thoughtful debate today on the consequences of not addressing the rise in our prison population. The outcomes of any sentence for a crime committed should be that justice is served and no further reoffending happens.”
“That is why my priority is the prevention of crime and further reoffending behaviour. That approach makes financial sense: every prison place costs us more than £52,000 a year; this financial year, we are spending nearly £510 million in resource funding for the Scottish Prison Service to run our jails.”
“Yi-pei Chou Turvey sums things up very well. This whole issue has been at the bottom of the to-do list—that is exactly where we are. The title of the Government’s motion, which is the subject of today’s debate, is: “Achieving a sustainable prison population”. We can all share that perfectly reasonable objective.”
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“Will the minister give way on that point? Jamie Hepburn: I am afraid that I will not give way to Mr Kerr. We hear from him all too frequently, so we will not hear from him on this occasion. The last point, which is also an important one, is that the request was not made at the 11th hour—it was made at beyond the 11th hour. It is not good enough to come at the last minute to ask the Government to make a statement on the same day. Frankly, it is not acceptable to ask that of ministers, but it is also not fair on Parliament because scheduling a statement for the same day does not give Parliament the courtesy of having enough lead-in time to ask questions. [Interruption.] That lot over there might have known about the plan, but no one else did, and that is not fair. I urge Parliament to reject the amendment.”
“Despite Scotland already having a strong pipeline of clean energy and growing supply-chain opportunities, there are many opportunities for Scotland still to grasp as we advance our position as one of the world’s leading countries in renewable energy. I move, That the Parliament agrees that all relevant provisions of the Great British Energy Bill, introduced in the House of Commons on 25 July 2024 and subsequently amended, so far as these matters fall within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament and alter the executive competence of the Scottish Ministers, should be considered by the UK Parliament.”
“On the substance of the bill, however, we are in agreement that we want to work with the UK Government in ensuring that GB Energy provides additionality to what is already happening in the privately owned landscape. The UK Government has said that it is looking for GB Energy to crowd in investment, including by backing more nascent technologies in the sector, which will be critical to reaching net zero. We will be able to share extensive knowledge of the Scottish energy sector, to ensure support for clean energy production projects in Scotland at the earliest opportunity. I thank the UK Government for the constructive discussions on that.”
“I wonder whether, in her discussions with UK ministers, the acting cabinet secretary has been able to discern exactly what the purpose of GB Energy is. Can she explain to the Parliament what it exists to do? We are at a complete loss at this end. Gillian Martin: This does seem to be a hot topic. I have had those discussions not just with ministers but with Juergen Maier. Juergen Maier clearly set out this week what GB Energy is and is not. It is really a matter for Labour members to answer the question whether what GB Energy was purported to be prior to the election has actually come to fruition. I am on record as having some concerns around that myself.”
“We currently have a group, led by Steve Decent, the principal at Glasgow Caledonian University, looking at how we further develop the graduate apprenticeship model and how we expand that offering as part of the overall package. Stephen Kerr makes a very good point about parity of esteem. The issue is also about read- across. We need to ensure that there is a cohesion to the offering of foundation apprenticeships, modern apprenticeships and graduate apprenticeships, so that we capture the maximum number of young people who want to go down those pathways and that we ensure that it is the right pathway for them. The Deputy Presiding Officer: That concludes this item of business. There will be a brief pause before we move to the next item of business to allow front benches to change over. Miscarriage Care”
“The minister is a good chap, but he has to accept that he has dismembered SDS and yet, somehow, it lives on. Perhaps he can elucidate on how the changes will ensure that apprenticeships and college places are held in equal esteem with university degrees, because that is a critical issue. Will he also reflect on my previous suggestion to rename graduate apprenticeships as degree apprenticeships? Graeme Dey: I took that suggestion away and tested it with university colleagues, and they were split roughly 50:50. The critical point about graduate apprenticeships is not their name but the place that they hold in the landscape. Stephen Kerr touched, rightly, on parity of esteem, but I want to see the graduate apprenticeship model improved.”
“We will ensure that both Governments and Petroineos get sight of the full report—more than that, we are teeing up potential investors to see the report. I have been working very hard on the issue with my colleagues in Scottish Enterprise and Scottish Development International. We have had considerable interest in what project willow will bring up. Although I would like the refinery to continue, with Petroineos and its shareholders making a different decision about its closure, I am feeling hopeful that, through project willow, we can get investors involved in the future of the site. Those are the answers to the questions that Stephen Kerr has put to me. I am happy to give him any more details that I can.”
“Both the UK and Scottish Governments have failed to make any decisive intervention to support Grangemouth. People in Central Scotland will not be impressed with the blame game that we hear in the chamber today. They want real answers and they want action. I will ask the minister some very simple questions to which she will surely know the answers. Who is writing the project willow report? When is it due? She must know when it is due. Will Petroineos see the report before the UK and Scottish Governments see it? Gillian Martin: I have answers to all those questions. The project willow report is being written by Ernst & Young, which has been brought in as consultant on the issue. The report is backed by both Governments and will be available by the end of this month, more or less.”
“12:48 On resuming— Alcohol Use Disorder in the Justice System”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Can you advise the Parliament whether Scottish ministers have approached you and asked to make an urgent statement on the developing situation at the Grangemouth refinery? Frankly, it is just not good enough that Scottish ministers sit in this chamber and engage in a blame game when there is serious work to be done to secure jobs and the local economy in Grangemouth. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Kerr. I confirm that I have not been approached, but you will be aware that you can raise the issue with your business manager and that such matters can be addressed by the Parliamentary Bureau. That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow those who are leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so. 12:47 Meeting suspended.”
“I assure Mr Kerr that I am confident that there will be knock-on benefits for the wider economy. We will monitor that, as will Creative Scotland, and I have no doubt that—as someone who has described himself as being greatly exercised about the matter—Mr Kerr will, too.”
“The cabinet secretary will know that we in the Conservatives are greatly exercised about value for taxpayers’ money and the measurement of outcomes. Will he expand on how this public expenditure fits with the national performance framework? How can we have assurance that the money is being spent appropriately and transparently by the organisations that are receiving the multiyear funding settlements? Angus Robertson: I repeat the point that I made about the screen sector. We are able to evidence the growth in that sector and show that relatively small interventions of public funding help to lever in private sector support, which I know that the member is in favour of, as am I. I am confident that this injection of support into the arts and culture sector will have a significant and positive impact.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to mitigate against future increases to Social Security Scotland’s overall spend on benefits. (S6O-04248)”
“Who appointed them to make such a critical cultural decision that will affect our children and the future of our culture? Who holds them to account for those decisions, and why is it that, when legitimate questions are asked, the answers are hidden behind a cloud of technocratic havering?”
“It is a real pleasure to follow Neil Bibby, and I agree with what he said about the curriculum—I will come back to that in a moment. First, I congratulate my colleague Oliver Mundell on bringing the debate to the chamber, and at what better time? It is a well- timed debate. The question of what is and what is not taught in our schools can often be fraught with controversy, and it seems to be jealously guarded as the preserve of those who sit behind the facade of the SQA. However, when I hear that it is reported that the SQA is relegating Robert Burns from his deserved prominence in the curriculum, I really begin to wonder what is becoming of us, and what kind of people are making those decisions. What are they thinking? To use one of the phrases that Robert Burns so skilfully deployed, this is a nievefu o blethers.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on whether Neil Gray corrected the Official Report of 14 November 2024 at the earliest opportunity, as required by the Scottish ministerial code— [Interruption.]”
“Just in case anyone is under any illusion, I note that, on Monday, in the world’s most powerful country, there was the return of the phrase “Drill, baby, drill!” The global recalibration of power will be in favour of the country that uses its resources—all its resources—to create low-cost energy.”
“Both parties are job destroyers and community destroyers. That is the dilemma of Ed Miliband’s ideological mania. Craig Hoy: Is Stephen Kerr aware that that ideology is also damaging communities in the south of Scotland? I had the misfortune to visit an area where there is a proposal for a 455-acre solar farm that would have 50,000 8m-long solar panels but local residents say that that would be not a solar farm but a massive power station. Is that not the price that we are paying for the SNP’s and Labour’s misuse of— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Hoy. You have two minutes left, Mr Kerr. Stephen Kerr: That is absolutely right.”
“Stephen Kerr: Let me come back to that point, because I would like to address what is meant by a just transition. If we talk to the people of Grangemouth, they will say that they have struggled to find any justice, as they feel that they have been thrown under the net zero steamroller. The SNP and Labour have forgotten that, in making sustainable change, we must take people with us. People must not feel that they are being silenced in order that an artificial, Government-imposed deadline can be met. That is exactly what we have from Ed Miliband and the Labour Government. In addition, both Governments are hostile to the future of oil and gas. The SNP’s presumption against oil and gas exploration and extraction is driving investors away, and Labour is taxing the North Sea basin to death.”
“I say to Michael Marra that the motion and the debate are about people’s lives being impacted by other people’s decisions and communities having the right to be heard, because, currently, they do not feel that they are respected or listened to. However, that is not what these two socialist parties that are in Government want. I am a Conservative primarily because I believe that the state should be seen as the servant and not the master. Michael Marra: Will the member take an intervention? Stephen Kerr: I will if it is very brief, because I will not get the time back. Michael Marra: Does the member recognise that his Government—the Tory Government that has just left office—was fully involved in the process of setting up the industrial developments that he is now opposing?”
“Have you been approached by the cabinet secretary to make a correction to the Official Report, or has he asked for time to make a statement to Parliament? What powers do you have as Presiding Officer to sanction a member who has evidently made a false statement in this chamber?”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek your guidance on what I think you will agree is a serious matter. On 14 November, I asked the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care whether contemporaneous notes existed for all his ministerial engagements, which involved watching Aberdeen Football Club. He said: “There are and will be summaries of the discussions that have taken place, which is in accordance with the ministerial code.”—[Official Report, 14 November 2024; c 57.] However, the Sunday Post is in possession of a freedom of information response that makes it clear that that is not true. It is clear that the cabinet secretary has provided information to Parliament that is inaccurate, whether intentionally or otherwise.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it will update the Parliament on the supply and availability of the flu vaccine. (S6T-02290)”
“What discussions did ministers have with Ineos prior to its announcement that it will close its ethanol plant, which will result in the loss of 80 direct jobs and 500 indirect jobs? What economic assessment has been made of the impact of the closure, which comes ahead of the closure of the refinery? Kate Forbes: There has been quite a lot of engagement with Ineos, which has spanned the past few years. Conversations are on-going right now. We know that job losses will always have a detrimental impact on a local economy. I know from my conversations with Ineos that it has a number of businesses on the site, which creates opportunities for jobs. However, right now, our big focus is on the region more generally and on how we create a long-term future for the skilled workers who work in the various Ineos businesses.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the plans for the contract for Contact Scotland BSL, which provides free services to British Sign Language users. (S6O- 04187)”
“I again acknowledge Meghan Gallacher for bringing the motion to the chamber and members for their valuable and, indeed, enjoyable contributions. Meeting closed at 17:46. This is the final edition of the Official Report for this meeting. It is part of the Scottish Parliament Official Report archive and has been sent for legal deposit. Published in Edinburgh by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, the Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh, EH99 1SP All documents are available on the Scottish Parliament website at: www.parliament.scot Information on non-endorsed print suppliers is available here: www.parliament.scot/documents For information on the Scottish Parliament contact Public Information on: Telephone: 0131 348 5000 Textphone: 0800 092 7100 Email: sp.info@parliament.scot”
“Scottish Government officials will highlight the commissioner’s recommendations to the transformational change programme board to get a better understanding of agencies’ capacity to deliver the operational changes that are required to deliver the long-term set of outcomes that the commissioner is looking for. I intend to have further discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs and justice agencies to better understand the current operational feasibility of the commissioner’s recommendations. The ask from NOVA Scotland will be considered against that backdrop. I reiterate the Government’s commitment to veterans and that we will continue to provide our unwavering support to them and their families, including those who are in, have been in or are at risk of coming into contact with the criminal justice system.”
“More broadly, as part of our vision for justice, the Government has established a transformational change programme that brings together justice agencies to focus on work to help to embed trauma-informed practices and to ensure that our justice services can—to go back to some of the points that Paul Sweeney made—recognise the prevalence of trauma and adversity, realise when people are affected by trauma and respond in ways that reduce retraumatisation. It is right that that approach should encompass the ways in which veterans are treated in the justice system.”
“For example, during that visit, I heard of cases in which the service provided by Fares4Free might help to facilitate visits by loved ones that otherwise were not happening. My team put the VICSOs in touch with Fares4Free after the visit, and I understand that that resulted in families who had previously struggled to get to the prison being offered free transport for visits. That sort of joined-up collaborative effort, which others have touched on, is exactly what the commissioner is asking for. NOVA Scotland could have a role to play in that too, because it is clear from that example that there is room for improvement.”
“The commissioner’s reference to a joined-up, collaborative approach, as well as the additional recommendations on staff in the justice system being veteran aware and on retaining and supporting the role of veterans in custody support officers—or VICSOs, as they are known—chime with me particularly. I visited HMP Shotts a year or so ago to meet some veterans who were in custody. I was struck by the dedication of the VICSOs and their desire to provide the best possible support to our veterans. It is clear that they are highly capable and hugely passionate about delivering their additional role as VICSOs, but they might benefit from additional awareness of other support services for veterans.”
“The report noted areas of good practice across Scotland, including the services offered by NOVA Scotland. The commissioner mentioned how its referral partnership had replaced the previous arrest referral scheme between Police Scotland and the armed services advice project. Additionally, the report made five recommendations to the Scottish Government, including one that we should establish a co-ordinated and collaborative approach across Scotland to bring together statutory and third sector providers to support veterans in the criminal justice system. It is absolutely possible that NOVA Scotland will have an enhanced role to play in supporting the delivery of that and the other recommendations.”
“However, my understanding is that the police are supportive of endorsement and want to proceed. The last conversation that I am aware of was in October last year. Has there been any update since then? Graeme Dey: As I indicated, I am the veterans minister, not a justice minister, so I am not sighted on whether there has been anything in that area. I will give Meghan Gallacher a taste of our considerations. One thing that we should consider when deciding whether NOVA Scotland should have an enhanced role, which I am happy to explore, is its ability to scale up quickly to meet the demand that would come from having such a role. Members will be aware that the Scottish Government recently welcomed the veterans commissioner’s latest thematic report, to which Stephen Kerr referred.”
“We support NOVA Scotland’s aims and ambitions and recognise the benefits that its service can offer veterans and their families, but we are working with Police Scotland and others to determine the best way forward, including considering how that support complements the services that other partners offer. Meghan Gallacher rose— Graeme Dey: Just give me a moment. Those partners include Sacro, the Scottish Prison Service, the NHS and other public and third sector bodies. I give way to Meghan Gallacher. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I encourage members to press their request-to-intervene buttons. Meghan Gallacher: I apologise, Presiding Officer. I understand what the minister says about the need to interact with others and look at the full picture when considering whether to endorse NOVA Scotland fully.”
“Its caseworkers support veterans in the criminal justice system to address their challenges and help them to rebuild their lives and move forward beyond the justice system. The small NOVA Scotland team has been engaging with my officials as it seeks to formalise its referral partnership with Police Scotland and to determine whether it is necessary or appropriate for the Scottish Government to offer some sort of formal recognition or endorsement for the service. I point out that the service self-evidently sits predominantly in the justice space.”
“17:40 The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey): I thank Meghan Gallacher for lodging the motion and I thank members—particularly Paul Sweeney—for their contributions. Members will be aware that veterans and the law is a key theme in the UK-wide strategy for our veterans. In our veterans strategy action plan, the Scottish Government is committed to the outcome of veterans leaving the armed forces with the resilience and awareness to remain law-abiding civilians. We continue to work with key partners and stakeholders to support the delivery of that outcome, which has included engagement with NOVA Scotland throughout the past year. As we heard, NOVA Scotland collaborates with Police Scotland, the Scottish Prison Service and local authority criminal justice social work teams.”
“Paul Sweeney refers to the practical support when a veteran connects with another veteran, who is able to direct and connect them to health services, mental health support and other practical support of which they stand in need. I repeat that we have the country that we have in large measure because of the sacrifices—often unspoken and unreported—of the men and women of our armed forces and security services. We owe them our deepest gratitude. We have a long way to go in honouring them through a proper armed forces covenant, but let the debate and the simple ask that it makes of the minister be a tangible expression of our commitment to support them for as long as that support is required.”
“The idea of an individual caseworker and the individual referral case pathway is very important. Paul Sweeney: Will the member take an intervention? Stephen Kerr: I am conscious of the time. Do I have time to give way, Presiding Officer? The Deputy Presiding Officer: Yes. Paul Sweeney: The point that the member makes about the individual caseworker is really important. Anecdotally, I found that, although the different charities mean well, people who were phoning them up were being sent from pillar to post. There was a lack of consistency, and the level of frustration eventually scunnered people enough that they disengaged. That is an important point to address. Stephen Kerr: I am grateful for that intervention.”
“They give selfless service, sometimes at significant personal cost, and they are left grappling for the rest of their lives with physical injury or mental health injury, and perhaps with an inability to manage their affairs as completely as they and their families would like. They have a sense—Paul Sweeney described it well—of feeling isolated and withdrawn from the society that they belong to and to which they have given so much. That is why Op NOVA and NOVA Scot are such important services, because they are holistic, individual and customised. In the report “Veterans and the Law”, which the Scottish veterans commissioner produced just a few months ago, Susie Hamilton identified the work that Op NOVA in England has done. I believe that we should take the fullest possible advantage of that in Scotland.”
“The military covenant does not yet do what it should do but, if the minister were to agree to the petition made today by Meghan Gallacher and commit to paper, as it were, the authorisation for NOVA Scot to do the good work that it does in a recognised way, that would be another step forward in making the obligations that we should all feel towards the men and women of our armed forces and security services real and tangible. The United States has set the bar through how it looks after its veterans, and we can learn much from it. Jackie Dunbar made the point that it is important to make it clear that, in the main, our veterans leaving the armed forces manage the transition from military life to civilian life, but some do not, and those people are the focus of our debate.”
“Keith Brown is not in his place, which is a shame, because he would have heard me say something nice about him, but I pay tribute to him and to Graeme Dey, who I know are deeply committed to the work of supporting our veterans and have done outstanding work as ministers for veterans in their turn. I also compliment Maurice Golden and former MSP Maurice Corry on the excellent work that is done in the cross-party group for the armed forces and veterans community.”
“Although I have no personal connection with the armed forces, other than as someone who has benefited from their service, as it were, I have always been drawn to the idea of the military covenant. It is a moral obligation that the state has to those who have served our country. It is not a new idea, but it is an idea that we need to make much more real in our veterans’ lives. Since the deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq, which have been mentioned in passing, there has been progress in enshrining in law certain entitlements for our veterans. The establishment of an office for veterans affairs at the Ministry of Defence was an important step forward, and I pay tribute to Johnny Mercer, who did so much to make that happen.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in the debate, Presiding Officer, and I thank Meghan Gallacher for bringing the motion to the chamber. I would like to say how much I have enjoyed all the contributions. I will comment on what Paul Sweeney talked about and what Graeme Dey mentioned in his intervention. As I was once bluntly reminded by Tom Tugendhat, no less, the stark reality is that our armed forces are— fundamentally—trained to kill the King’s enemies. That is often the stark nature of the business that they are asked to take care of. We therefore owe an enormous and on-going debt of gratitude to every man and woman who serves in our armed forces.”
“Let us acknowledge the importance of music tuition in the education of our young people. This is not the first time that there has been a threat to that, and not just in Stirling— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Mr Kerr, you need to conclude. Stephen Kerr: I will conclude. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Please do so now. Stephen Kerr: I conclude by saying that the deliberate underfunding of local councils so that ministers such as Angus Robertson can come here and congratulate themselves on spending money is— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Mr Kerr, thank you. We move on to our next speaker. I call Colin Smyth. 16:11”
“Given the very patchy history of the 300-plus properties that HES looks after and the fact that it has not been able to open all of them— it has been opening and closing them—she was not able to tell us how much it would cost to bring all those valuable assets up to an acceptable standard of safety and accessibility. A number of us on the committee have been told by a source in HES that doing so will cost £800 million. Can the cabinet secretary confirm to us that he is in talks with HES about those works? Can he confirm that he has an estimate of at least £800 million to restore those historic sites, which are vital to our visitor economy? I will also mention the issue of school music tuition. I remember that when the SNP was in power in Stirling and I was the MP, we had to campaign to save music tuition there.”
“In fact, Anne Lyden told us that the shorter working week and national insurance contribution increases add up to more than £1 million of additional cost. She also mentioned the restrictions that are placed on NGS because of a no-compulsory redundancy policy. She said: “we cannot be as agile or as flexible as we want to be, because all the money that we receive goes towards keeping our existing staff profile.”—[Official Report, Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, 9 January 2025; c12.] Because of the restriction on time, I will just mention Historic Environment Scotland, whose new chief executive gave evidence to the committee.”
“Stephen Kerr: That was a very vague answer, but it is important for us to get a clear answer about the comprehensive nature of the review. I turn to NGS, which was referenced earlier. Anne Lyden talked about a “staffing cost trap”. SNP members should recognise that the imposition of the shorter working week policy is costing NGS alone almost £800,000 and is threatening its galleries’ ability to open for the hours that they currently open. There is also the increase in national insurance contributions, but what was interesting in the evidence that we received last week was that the witnesses kept coming back to the imposition of the shorter working week and other aspects of pay policy that are mandated by the Scottish Government.”
“I include the now infamous case of the porn movie that was funded to the tune of £85,000 but which did not happen—thankfully— because of other interventions. Perhaps the cabinet secretary could intervene now. I will give him 15 seconds to confirm that the review will include all aspects of Creative Scotland’s workings. Does he want to say yes? Angus Robertson: I have said clearly, and I will happily repeat, that I will not tell Dame Sue Bruce where she should concentrate her efforts. I encourage Mr Kerr and other colleagues to take part in the review. I ask them to take the opportunity to share their views in relation to the review that Sue Bruce will undertake, to help steer her in any directions that they feel are appropriate.”
“Robert Wilson, who is the chair of the board of Creative Scotland, said: “We have had many discussions with the cabinet secretary and Government officials. That is our understanding based on ... those discussions.”—[Official Report, Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee, 9 January 2025; c 26, 31.] The cabinet secretary should clarify in his summing up whether the understanding that Creative Scotland revealed to the committee last week is right or wrong. I think that it is wrong, and I would like to hear him say so. The cabinet secretary should also clarify that he has not changed the remit of the review of Creative Scotland, which receives £80 million of taxpayers’ money. It is important that we review its work, and why that should be the case has been clearly spelled out.”
“If Keith Brown will forgive me, with the time that I have, I will move on to talk about the culture review that was announced as part of the programme for government. The Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee specifically asked that that review include the governance and transparency of Creative Scotland. If I heard the cabinet secretary correctly earlier, he said that Creative Scotland and its processes are part of the review. Let me tell him what Creative Scotland told us last week. Anne Langley said: “the Scottish Government has helpfully been clear that it is a review of purpose, not process.” As far as I am concerned, governance and transparency are an essential part of a review of process. Therefore, I would like the cabinet secretary to clarify the position.”
“Stephen Kerr: I will if it is very brief, because I have no extra time. Keith Brown: With regard to cultural neglect, will Mr Kerr acknowledge that, according to Equity, between 2018 and 2023, the culture budget reduced by 11 per cent in England, where his party was in control, and increased in Scotland? In his area, the cuts at the local government level are the responsibility of Stirling Council, which is run by Labour and the Conservatives. Stephen Kerr: Sadly, I do not represent Stirling in this Parliament. I represent another part of Scotland, and I am very proud to do so. I wish that we had more time to engage in a proper debate, because Keith Brown raises points that are worthy of proper debate.”