Martin Whitfield
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“To ask the Scottish Government, regarding any impact on its energy policy and strategy, and in light of reports that Torness nuclear power station is due to close by 2030, what its response is to the United Kingdom Government’s new fusion strategy, which aims to deliver thousands of jobs and long-term energy security. (S6O-05690)”
“I ask members to note my entry in the members’ register of interests. As we come to the conclusion of today’s debate, I rise to offer the full support of Scottish Labour for the Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill.”
“The last few motions before us today are the final motions from the committee designed to put the standing orders book in its best possible state for the next session. The first motion, regarding the sixth report, relates to cross-party groups. We have had some challenges this session with the compliance of cross-party groups.”
“Last year’s fostering and adoption statistics show that children who are going through the adoption system face significant delays, with some waiting for six months or longer.”
“I will dwell on the comments he made as convener of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, because it is a tribute to him that he saw, in that committee, the ability to fulfil a role that is crucial for committees in a unicameral Parliament.”
“The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-21167, in the name of Graeme Dey, on a motion on legislative consent for the Armed Forces Bill, which is UK legislation, be agreed to.”
The complete record
Every one of 844 lines we hold for Martin Whitfield, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 12 of 17.
“Amendment 213 disagreed to. Amendment 214 moved—[Pam Duncan- Glancy]—and agreed to. Amendment 215 moved—[Pam Duncan- Glancy]. Amendment 215A moved—[Jenny Gilruth]—and agreed to. Amendment 215, as amended, agreed to. Amendment 216 moved—[Pam Duncan- Glancy]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 216 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 54, Against 61, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 212 agreed to. Amendment 320 moved—[Jenny Gilruth]—and agreed to. Amendment 213 moved—[Pam Duncan- Glancy]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 213 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 88, Against 27, Abstentions 0.”
“Section 34—Duty when exercising functions Amendment 212 moved—[Pam Duncan- Glancy]. The Deputy Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 212 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Deputy Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“I do not accept that amendment 216 would curtail their ability to give commentary on the system. On bureaucracy and the concerns about practical assistance, inspection should be about improvement. If it is not, that goes back to the point about it being something that staff will fear. That also speaks to the point that the cabinet secretary has just made. I am afraid that I do not agree that the concern with amendment 217 would be about assistance to schools and local authorities, because I think that the role of the inspector should be exactly that—to support schools and local authorities to deliver the sort of education that many of them want to deliver. I will press amendment 211. Amendment 211 agreed to. Amendment 319 moved—[Jenny Gilruth]—and agreed to.”
“I thank members across the chamber—in particular, the cabinet secretary and those who have advised her—for their support on this matter. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Pam Duncan-Glancy to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 211. Pam Duncan-Glancy: I have taken the cabinet secretary’s comments on board, and I am pleased that she will support some of our amendments. On morale and wellbeing, I take the point that an inspector might worry that they may not be able to make a negative comment, but I do not think that it would restrict them from giving constructive feedback. I am pretty sure that, given all their other duties in exercising their function, an inspector would be able to do so in a way that does not bring down morale in the education system. That would be quite important.”
“Unfortunately, there are a number of recorded instances in which local authorities have not stepped up to the responsibility that the public might expect of them and that responsibility has fallen between those two stools. I very much welcome the contribution from the cabinet secretary and her putting on the record the Government’s intention to write to the chief inspector on a regular basis to draw their attention to the guidance. A list of that guidance might be helpful beyond the chief inspector’s purposes, as people would know that they could refer to it instantly when looking for the guidance. On the basis of the cabinet secretary’s undertaking, I do not intend to move amendment 218 when the time comes.”
“As today is a new day, I again draw attention to the entry in my register of interests regarding payments that I received at the start of this parliamentary session. In the first instance, I thank the cabinet secretary for her statement and for the interaction that we have had over this challenging area of safeguarding. At the minute, an area exists that is perhaps best described as grey. It is the area where the GTCS interacts—or does not interact— with local authorities that have a responsibility for employing teachers. That grey area has existed for a long while. The purpose behind my amendment was to draw attention to it and to seek a resolution to the problem.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that, for the purposes of consideration of the legislative consent memorandum on the Animal Welfare (Import of Dogs, Cats and Ferrets) Bill, Rule 9B.3.5 of Standing Orders is suspended. Portfolio Question Time Constitution, External Affairs and Culture, and Parliamentary Business 14:18”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Deputy Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-18133, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on suspension of standing orders, is: For 82, Against 29, Abstentions 0.”
“On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am not sure whether my vote was counted; I would have voted yes. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Whitfield. Your vote has been registered. The Minister for Higher and Further Education; and Minister for Veterans (Graeme Dey): On a point of order, Deputy Presiding Officer. I am in the same boat. I am not sure whether my vote was counted; I would have voted yes. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Dey. Your vote has been recorded.”
“We are already quite far behind that, so I ask that members bear that in mind when making their contributions. I call Willie Rennie to speak to amendment 125 and other amendments in the group.”
“On that basis, for the sake of young people’s future, for the sake of a bill that supports staff, pupils and a future education system that is best geared towards ensuring that our young people are set on the path to success, with world-class education in a system that is designed to deliver it, I urge members across the chamber to reject the bill as it stands and support the amendments in my name. I move amendment 98. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Before calling the next speaker, I want members to reflect on the fact that discussions took place with business managers and members with key amendments about the time that is needed to move those amendments. We, as a Parliament, have agreed a timetabling motion for proceedings this afternoon and this evening.”
“Pam Duncan-Glancy: I thank the member for that intervention—I enjoy the unity that we have across Scottish Labour, which is not something that we always see across the Government party. I appreciate members’ support. I was making the point that the Parliament has options to make the bill salvageable. If the Parliament supports our amendments to remove accreditation from the qualifications body and place it in a regulatory function in the inspectorate, in a new body, curriculum Scotland, or in the inspectorate without creating a regulator, which nonetheless moves it into another body, we could consider supporting the bill. However, at this time, I have heard zero indication that the Government is prepared to move in that direction.”
“Will my colleague take an intervention? Pam Duncan-Glancy: I will. Martin Whitfield: I am very grateful— [Interruption.] I suggest that my colleague has articulated clearly the reason for her conclusion in the summation of her contribution. Had— The Deputy Presiding Officer: Resume your seat, Mr Whitfield. This will be a long afternoon and evening. It will be even longer if we do not listen to the member who has the floor, who, in this case, is Martin Whitfield. Martin Whitfield: I am very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. I shudder at your premonition of how today might go. Had members listened to my colleague’s submission, they would know that her conclusion was fully explained.”
“Shared parental leave enables a member of staff and their partner, as co-parents, to share leave and pay entitlements that are otherwise available to the birth mother under the maternity policy. When shared parental leave is applied for, the mother or primary carer of a child can convert up to 50 weeks—as Mr Whitfield suggests—of their 52-week maternity or adoption leave entitlement to shared parental leave, which they can share with their partner. That enables fathers or primary carers to take extended leave to care for their child. That is a separate provision, over and above that to which Mr Ruskell alluded, which the corporate body will also look at. However, the corporate body tries to ensure that, in the round, we are a family-friendly Parliament and that we have policies that reflect that. Parliament Facilities (Interim Policy) 2.”
“I thank Jackson Carlaw for the answer to the primary question, and in particular for his mention of on-going consideration, which makes me hopeful. This Parliament very much values itself as a family-friendly Parliament. However, we have a dichotomy, in the sense that we have parliamentary staff as well as the MSP staff that we are speaking about today. Looking specifically at MSP staff, can Jackson Carlaw say anything about the challenges that can be caused by shared parental leave when a partner is nominated to receive up to 50 weeks of displaced leave? Members can face challenges when staff make such requests. Jackson Carlaw: Another benefit in relation to maternity, paternity and adoption leave is that members’ staff can take shared parental leave and receive shared parental pay.”
“That responsibility falls on the Scottish Government. 18:00”
“In that strategy, the Government said: “Since 1999, housing policy has been devolved to the Scottish Parliament.” It went on to say, in bold lettering, that “This has allowed a new approach to develop in Scotland, one that recognises the central role that housing plays in determining quality of life.” Finally, it said: “We have taken a different course to other UK nations on affordable housing supply, Right to Buy, affordability, homelessness, child poverty, security of tenure and energy efficiency.” In Liam Kerr’s opening speech and in other speeches on how RAAC is affecting home owners, the Government is being put to the test on its own words. I echo Meghan Gallacher’s request: a good start would be to meet all the campaign groups. The second task is to solve the problem for the people of Scotland.”
“The other case involves Preston Lodge high school in Prestonpans, in East Lothian, which falls very much in my South Scotland region. RAAC was identified there, but it was repaired within months—at great expense—because the school was a private finance initiative school. The responsibility fell on the funders of the school to ensure that education could continue, and financial contributions allowed children who were moved away to continue to be taught in other community buildings. There was a massive incentive to get the school open again, because there was a commitment to providing facilities for education. I draw an analogy between those two cases and now turn to housing, because where there is a will, there is a way. I look back to the Government’s “Housing to 2040” strategy, which was published on 15 March 2021.”
“Nevertheless, those families will not be able to grow and mature in a safe environment. I will return to the housing element, but first I will spend a short time talking about two different situations involving RAAC that have arisen in the south of Scotland, close to Lothian, in the council area of East Lothian. One case concerns a high school and the other involves a theatre. The theatre is operated through trusts and charities by East Lothian Council to further the cultural importance of East Lothian. The presence of RAAC was identified in that building and it has been rendered unusable—indeed, it has been rendered unsafe. Much discussion is going on about whether a new theatre can be built or whether other things can be done towards that aim.”
“I start with an apology, Deputy Presiding Officer, to you, Liam Kerr and other members in the chamber for missing the opening sentences of what was a powerful contribution—I apologise to all. I echo Meghan Gallacher’s welcome to the cabinet secretary in returning to the Parliament and to the inclusion of the housing portfolio in a Cabinet post, which will, at last, bring the subject directly to the Cabinet table. This is a fascinating and important debate that has been brought to the chamber as a result of a member’s motion that talks about individuals— individuals who own houses in which they live and in which they want their families to grow up and to feel safe. As has already been adequately shown, the last thing that those people feel is safe. The consequences of that are potentially fatal, although let us hope not.”
“If the situation has changed since the initial statement was made, what has changed that has made the issue of national importance? I do not doubt that the issue is of national importance, as a lot of members have said, but that point needs to be picked up. We need to remember that reporters are appointed by the Scottish Government—a reporter has looked at the issue—and that a Scottish Government minister, who was appointed by the First Minister, will now have to take the decision. Given the duplicity of that situation, there is a danger that people outside the Parliament will wonder whether a fair and transparent decision will be made. In closing, I ask the minister a pragmatic question not about this individual proposal but about generic decisions that are taken by ministers when applications are called in: what test do ministers apply?”
“I will comment on section 46(1) of the Town and Country Planning (Scotland) Act 1997 and the ministerial statement that was made in 2023. Ministers can call in applications when they consider that important issues are at stake that should be determined by them. Interestingly, in this case, the Minister for Public Finance stated: “I have decided to recall the Lomond Banks appeal”— the Flamingo Land appeal— “as the proposed development raises issues of national significance in view of its potential impact on Loch Lomond and the Trossachs National Park”. However, previously, the minister said that there were some “technical planning issues” and that there should be an “objective planning judgment”. The Scottish Government has to address the point that those are two contradictory statements.”
“A serious discussion has to take place on the accessibility and transparency of our planning system, so that people who are directly affected can, without having to seek expensive advice, understand decisions that are taken. As Pam Gosal rightly said, such people feel that their voices are not being heard. Daniel Johnson: Does Martin Whitfield share my reflection that, in a debate in which people have questioned whether the planning system gives confidence to investors and, at the same time, have said that it does not provide confidence to communities, one ends up asking who the planning system is for? It does not seem to be for anyone. Does he agree with that sentiment? Martin Whitfield: Perhaps the planning system is for the Scottish Government rather than for any of the parties that Daniel Johnson mentioned.”
“It is a pleasure to contribute to the debate. I go back to an interesting question that was posed in the previous debate. Yet again, it rests with Opposition parties to bring really important current questions to the chamber so that the Government can reach decisions. In relation to the timetable of what has happened since Labour’s motion was lodged, as Jackie Baillie rightly pointed out, there has been a complete and utter U-turn. As Tom Arthur found in his opening speech, the challenge is that ministers, in their role in making such decisions, potentially bring problems upon themselves. I want to pick up on a number of issues. First, I absolutely agree with Bob Doris on the accessibility of published reports on decisions within the planning framework, not just at reporter level but at other levels.”
“I am sure that, when ministers see the damage that it would do, they will reject the application, end the sorry saga and, once and for all, save Loch Lomond from the greed of the developer. I move amendment S6M-17862.2, to insert at end: “; believes that the significant public interest in this application and its location within a national park make it a matter of national interest, and asks that ministers assess the application’s compatibility with National Planning Framework 4, as approved by the Parliament in 2023, and with the statutory aims of the national park.” The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to the open debate. I advise the chamber that, unusually, we have a little bit of time in hand, so members should get time back for brief interventions. 16:15”
“The law is absolutely clear when aims conflict, which is the key reason why the national park board rejected the application, and it is to the credit of all who have campaigned locally and nationally over the past decade—and, in particular, over the past three weeks—that we have forced the decision. I also thank ministers for the change in their decision. Flamingo Land’s application is of national significance because of the scale of the proposed development, the damage that it would do and its location, but also because of the precedent that it would set for our whole planning system. I look forward to setting out in detail the decade’s-worth of evidence against the mega resort.”
“The minister said that the planning process needs to “balance competing interests”, but I point out that the aims of our national parks are set out in law, including the Sandford principle that greater weight must be given to the protection of natural heritage over other aims, including economic benefit. I think that the economic benefits of the application are dubious at best, but they are cancelled out by the environmental and community harms that the application itself concedes would happen. Those harms are well evidenced by the Woodland Trust and by the national park’s own planning team in particular. The loss of ancient woodland, in and of itself, should have resulted automatically in the reporter dismissing the appeal.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Ross Greer: I am afraid that I do not have time at this point, but I would be happy to take the member’s intervention in closing. Why is it a major development? We are talking about two hotels, a water park, a monorail, 372 parking spaces, 100 lodges, restaurants, shops, service buildings and more. The developer’s own impact assessment showed that there would be more than 250 additional car journeys per hour on local roads at peak times. Those local roads are already gridlocked the second that there is a crack of sunshine between the clouds, and, as Jackie Baillie highlighted, the developer was proposing only two minor roundabout adaptations to compensate for that.”
“We found that the families of those who were in care homes run by local authorities were able to access information but that it simply was not possible to get information from homes owned by private sector companies. That is one reason why there is such a body of opinion in favour of extending freedom of information to cover the care sector. However, ministers have thus far refused to use their section 5 powers under the act.”
“Katy Clark raises the important point that, as the industry becomes more complex and its ownership more diverse, the people whom it should be caring for are much more remote from their data and information. The amendments that she has lodged, along with other amendments on freedom of information, would, at last, allow people to know what information is being held and how decisions are being made. Does the member agree with that? Katy Clark: The member makes an incredibly important point. The challenges of Covid demonstrated the importance of having an enforceable right to information. During Covid we saw that providers in the care sector, which care for some of our most vulnerable people, followed very different rules depending on whether ownership was in the public sector or elsewhere.”
“We celebrate our friends across the world who come here to find the history of people who are important in their own history. We meet them, we greet them and we celebrate that history. We use those experiences to teach our young people that there is genuinely nothing that they cannot achieve if they are born in Scotland and they look up. 13:08”
“As a result of John Muir, much money has come to the country from the US, and the museum is perhaps an example that can be followed elsewhere by local authorities, charities and supporters from outside the country to allow someone’s story to live. Then, perhaps, in another place a pupil in primary 5 can wander into what looks like an old-fashioned house, step outside and suddenly think, “Actually, no one can stop my future being what I want it to be, wherever it is and however it is made.” Today’s debate about Thomas Blake Glover has allowed members across the chamber to look for their own heroes, and I hope that some can find heroines from their regions, too. It is perhaps always much more important for Scotland to look outwards than to look inwards.”
“Because of those memories, those childhood experiences and his love of nature, he became known as “John of the mountains” and the “father of the national parks”. He was the man who converted Presidents, getting them to look at nature in a different way. He was one of those men who was able to shape the future of another country because of his enthusiasm, his skill and his passion for telling stories in order to bring together something important. John Muir’s birthplace on Dunbar High Street is celebrated as a museum that is attended by schoolchildren from across East Lothian and further afield. It keeps that history alive and in place.”
“However, I was much more taken by Karen Adam’s opening statement because, on 6 June 1838—the day on which the subject of our debate was born—John Muir was six weeks old. Although he was no doubt crying, mewling and being a challenging child to his mum, he was another hero come into the world. We see many similarities in the two stories. They left Scotland as children and where they grew up shaped what they did in their future. John Muir, of course, was born in Dunbar. As the third of eight children—not the most important in the household—he looked around at the East Lothian landscape, ran riot and escaped, and he fell in love with nature and with landscape. Then, for other reasons, he travelled abroad—in his case to America, where he grew up.”
“Like other members, I thank Karen Adam for securing this phenomenally important debate, on a day on which its importance to members here should not have been overshadowed by events elsewhere. I extend my welcome to the honourable guests who join us today. I had a lovely speech prepared. I wanted to talk about the number of Scottish people— unfortunately, mainly men—who emigrated abroad and became recognised for the fortunes that they made or the developments that they were involved in. Jackie Dunbar’s contribution allows me to mention James Paris Lee, of Lee-Enfield fame, the creator of the rifle, and the dubious, perhaps questionable actions of Charles Lockhart, who, of course, was one of the founders of Standard Oil. Jackie Dunbar phrased it so well when she said that we can all have an opinion on how those people operated.”
“I encourage the member to contact the Scottish Government if he requires anything related to his local area. Co-operation is being promoted by the Scottish Government. The Presiding Officer: That concludes general question time. 11:57 Meeting suspended. 12:00 On resuming— First Minister’s Question Time Gangland Violence 1.”
“One of the challenges with local heat and energy efficiency strategies is that they cross local authority areas. What support is the Scottish Government giving across borders to local authorities so that they can work together on local heat strategies? How can that be advanced at a quicker pace than is happening at the moment? Alasdair Allan: The member is right to point out that some of these issues cross local authority boundaries. We work with local authorities to ensure that co-operation is there. We know that there is a particular enthusiasm around heat network development. We have information on grant funding that is allocated via the heat network support unit equating to more than £815,000, to support the development of city-wide, town-wide or cross-local-authority heat networks.”
“Student Teachers (Mental Health and Wellbeing) 8.”
“I am very grateful, Deputy Presiding Officer. The bullying that occurs online frequently travels over the wi-fi that is provided by schools. On 16 December 2021, I posed a question on that to the then First Minister, who confirmed that the Scottish Government’s responses “must keep pace ... with the ways in which young people can be subjected to bullying.”—[Official Report, 16 December 2021; c 29.] The First Minister said that the Government would look at the technical difficulties that lead to wi-fi at school being the vehicle for such bullying. Has the Scottish Government concluded that review? What is the answer? Natalie Don-Innes: Wi-fi in local schools would be a matter for local schools and local authorities. However, I am more than happy to write back to Mr Whitfield with more detail on the matter that he has brought to me.”
“Pre- legislative scrutiny might prevent some of the substantially elongated stage 2 sessions that we have seen, because we would know what the legislation was seeking to achieve. I look forward whole-heartedly to members’ contributions on the blueprint. With the exception of the recommendations concerning the Conveners Group, I fully support the proposed blueprint and its iterative nature; it is conservative in nature with its recommendation of four panels. I also support the request, from this Parliament to the next, to review the success or otherwise of the blueprint, and to keep building on it. 15:28”
“That would allow us to frame questions around what we want out of a piece of legislation and whether that legislation has been successful. It would entrust the investigation of a piece of legislation to the people whom that legislation potentially affects, or has affected. With support, they would report back on the reality of decisions. It might not be necessary to have those assemblies look at entire pieces of legislation; as has happened with certain committees, they could consider just one small part. Post-legislative scrutiny in particular is something that we need to do better. We talk a lot about achieving across the Parliament, but we need to see the fruits that are borne.”
“A quote from Frédéric Vandenberghe encompasses one of the challenges that we have, although where he uses the term “Government”, I think that the term “Parliament” might be better. He said: “government is legitimate not so much because it represents the ‘general will’, but because its policies are, ideally and counterfactually, the result of the public deliberation of all who are concerned by the decision”. I recall the thoughts of J P Mackintosh, the former MP for Berwick and East Lothian, who talked succinctly about decision making resting as close to the people whom it affects as possible. In the next session, I hope that citizens assemblies consider both post-legislative and pre- legislative scrutiny.”
“One of the interesting things that I have read about and talked about to members of this chamber who have interacted with citizens assemblies—this is why I pointed to the convener’s journey—is the effect of talking to members of the public who have taken part in the assemblies. That has been fundamentally moving for those MSPs who have had the opportunity to do it. They have heard from people across Scotland. Some of them represent lived- experience groups; most importantly, however, MSPs heard from people in general, who, I hope, vote in elections and who took the time to come forward. The interaction of those people with elected members has been of fundamental importance.”
“I recognise the points in the blueprint and accept almost all of them. The principles for topic selection, for delivering people’s panels and for committee engagement are massively important. However, I am concerned that decisions might rest with the Conveners Group. We do not know what that group will look like—or if there will be such a committee—in the next session. I do not think that that in any way alters the proposal, but it is, perhaps, a different vehicle. That allows me to talk about the inquiry that the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, which I have the privilege to convene, is undertaking at the moment on how we improve the culture on committees.”
“The most disappointing results from citizens assemblies that we have seen are perhaps from those that were started by and operated through the Scottish Government rather than the Scottish Parliament. However, this is a learning exercise for everyone in Scotland. The debate is probably not the place for a discussion of where responsibility for the vehicle should lie. Should it lie with the Parliament, where the Scottish Government could come and pose a framed question or a problem, or should it lie with a lot of different people? Experiences of differently run, supported and articulated citizens assemblies show that we run the risk of damaging the concept to the point at which everyone will say, “Oh, it’s just another citizens assembly.” That would be disappointing. Perhaps that is a topic for the next session of Parliament.”
“All the post-scrutiny work that has been done with the panels that we have had shows us something about their involvement. When a panel is properly engaged, with a proper question, proper framing, proper support and a response at the end—even if it is one of disagreement—people take satisfaction from their participation, which allows them to give up their time over three or four weekends or whatever it is. More important, it brings them closer to their Scottish Parliament. I had some concerns about something that the Minister for Parliamentary Business mentioned in discussing the Scottish Government’s point of view. I will be critical on this point.”
“My intervention on the convener was about the importance of the questions that are put, which is one of the fundamental challenges. Where we have asked too much or have asked a question about a different problem, deliberative democracy does not produce an answer. When we pose a problem that we do not have an answer to and on which there is not an agreed or entrenched position, our citizens—those who are responsible for sending us here in a variety of ways—are given the opportunity to truly influence the really important part: the thinking that goes on afterwards as to what the solution is. It might not be the solution that the citizens assembly comes up with, and there is nothing wrong with that. It might be only part of the solution. It might even lead to our recognising that there are unknowns that we were unaware of.”