Ben Macpherson
Scottish National Party · Scotland
“It would be helpful to understand from the member’s supplementary question what he means by degrees that “offer limited value”, so that we can understand the point that he is trying to make. Thomas Kerr: I will get a list over to the minister. I am always happy to educate the education front bench about pointless degrees.”
“I am sure that, collectively, we all want to congratulate the 2024-25 school leavers, 93.5 per cent of whom were in a positive destination nine months after leaving school. We will also, I am sure, want to recognise together the dedication of the practitioners who supported them to achieve that.”
“Can he guarantee that every pound that has been allocated to apprenticeships is being spent on apprenticeship training, rather than elsewhere in the education budget?”
“This year, building on previous work and initiatives, the Scottish Government has introduced a new Government-led skills planning model—which has been developed in close partnership with stakeholders, including those in industry—to ensure that our post-school education and skills system becomes even more responsive to Scotland’s strategic…”
“We want to support all our young people to choose a pathway that suits their strengths and enables them to fulfil their potential to the greatest extent, developing their skills and critical thinking. Our all-age careers support, delivered by Skills Development Scotland and other partners, promotes every pathway to our young people.”
“Ben Macpherson: Daniel Johnson knows that I like to be constructive in my dialogue in the chamber, but I must gently point out that one of the key problems that those in industry have emphasised to me is the impact of the national insurance increase, as well as other pressures and costs that have affected the number of apprenticeship star…”
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“I think back to being a child, when this Parliament was begun. It started off with the ethos of being more accessible and engaged with the public, and easier to access and participate in than other examples. There is much to commend in that regard, thanks to the staff of the Parliament who work to create greater engagement, and to the approach that is taken. The clearest example that I always go back to is from 2 July 2016, which was the day of the first formal opening of Parliament that I took part in as an MSP. I remember very well that the late Queen addressed us from where the Presiding Officer is sitting now, and that, an hour or two later, there were children sitting in that seat.”
“When the first speaker in this important debate talked, on behalf of the committee, about historical examples, it took me back to last year, when I was in Iceland at the Althing in Thingvellir—an important place in the countryside, between two volcanic plates, where, from 930 AD, the oldest Parliament sat. However, that was not a Parliament with the sense of equality that we now have. The franchise was not as it is; human rights were not as they are; and engagement was not as it is now. Whether we are thinking back to that time in Iceland or about ancient Greece, as I cited earlier, or walking around the old town here in Edinburgh and thinking about the progress that we have made in our country, what a remarkable journey we have been on. How precious that is. Such progress has been made. There is much to be positive about.”
“If we want members of the public to engage in inclusive, respectful debate, maybe politicians should try a bit harder to do the same. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Martin Whitfield, who has a similarly generous seven minutes. 15:20”
“Such panels are already used at Mearns Castle high school for classroom resources and by Angus Council in the design of play parks, with children being the key decision makers in both examples. However, I sound a note of caution on people’s panels. Even when the Government accepts recommendations, that does not mean that the desired outcome will be met, as we have seen with the climate change people’s panel. That brings me back to the central point of trust. If we are serious about embedding deliberative democracy throughout the Scottish Parliament, Scotland’s elected representatives should reflect carefully on the state of politics right now. We must start listening to the concerns of the electorate, engaging them in a meaningful way and, most important, being honest with them.”
“To go back to the point of this debate, deliberative democracy is characterised in the report as “an approach to democratic participation that allows members of the public to engage in inclusive, respectful, reasoned and informed discussion and debate on significant issues.” According to the report, “Decision making is informed by this deliberation.” This parliamentary session, the focus has been on utilising people’s panels that have been focused on policies on climate change and drug deaths. I welcome that approach and would like it to be expanded, which I hope that the Parliament will agree to. In addition, I would welcome the expansion of people’s panels to involvement in budget allocation processes.”
“If the doorstep activists from all parties are to be believed, Scottish politics may be facing a seismic event this Thursday. Whether that is a small tremor or a political earthquake, the ramifications will be felt by all the major political parties in Scotland and beyond. When that happens, the political class may be better served by a period of self-reflection in which it asks itself why that has happened and searches for the answers internally. However, a moment of self-reflection may mean that it will need to address some hard truths.”
“I could easily be accused of political bias in calling out the failings of the Scottish Government, but the crux of the matter is that the public are aware of those issues—they see them every day in their communities and in schools and hospitals. The public also see their elected leaders of all colours playing the spin game and being completely unwilling to put their hands up and take responsibility for any of what has happened. Instead, they tell the public that they have got it all wrong, that things are not really that bad or that the problems that exist are actually someone else’s fault. Again, the public can see right through that, and they are fed up with the spin, the false promises, the half-truths, the gaslighting and the shifting of blame. Where does that leave us?”
“After 14 years in government, the UK Conservative Party—for a number of reasons— lost the trust and support of the electorate and was handed a resounding defeat in last year’s general election. The electorate handed power to the UK Labour Party but, in less than a year, it has had what can only be described as one of the most spectacular falls from grace in recent political history, with the polls now showing that the public’s confidence in it has evaporated. For the Scottish National Party’s part, its mission to separate the UK has led to deep rifts in Scottish society. At the same time, confidence in Holyrood has been undermined by a series of policy failures in areas such as our education system, net zero targets, our health service and antisocial behaviour—the list goes on.”
“Similar to what was just said, does Maurice Golden agree that, although recommendations and formal consideration are important, a lot of the challenges that we face relate to the broader context and style of our politics, and that we need to think about how we address participation in that regard? Maurice Golden: I will come on to the culture that is developing, which is quite concerning for our society and our politics. Members need only look at some of the language that is used routinely in press releases to share—I hope—my fear about the direction of travel. It is easy to blame external factors for the dissatisfaction. However, that is too convenient, because it ignores our responsibility as elected representatives to promote and protect the public’s trust in our democracy.”
“That the Parliament agrees that the Social Justice and Social Security Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. Hearing Care (Age-related Hearing Loss)”
“The Presiding Officer: If no member objects, I propose to ask a single question on three Parliamentary Bureau motions. The final question is, that motions S6M-17703, S6M-17704 and S6M-17705, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on the designation of lead committees, be agreed to. Motions agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. That the Parliament agrees that the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Desecration of War Memorials (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.”
“Motion, as amended, agreed to, That the Parliament recognises the scale and urgency of unmet need in both mental health and neurodevelopmental support, particularly in the context of a sharp rise in demand for neurodiversity assessments and treatment for adults and children following the COVID-19 pandemic; notes the additional pressure on services caused by the global shortage of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) medication, which has led to the closure of titration clinics in some areas and significantly impacted waiting times and access to care; recognises the profound distress and disruption this causes for individuals and families who are left without timely diagnosis or support; acknowledges the knock-on effects on the health service, as well as the wider economic consequences of rising levels of economic inactivity linked to unmet neurodevelopmental and mental health needs; notes with concern the widespread removal of shared care arrangements where patients who obtained a private diagnosis could receive ongoing care and medication through the Scottish NHS; calls on the Scottish Government to work urgently with NHS boards and local authorities on their shared care arrangement protocols, but understands that decisions around the best course of treatment for patients are for individual clinicians; further calls on the Scottish Government to expand and create adult neurodevelopmental pathways and stepped care models, as recommended by the National Autism Implementation Team and Royal College of Psychiatrists in the 2021 National Clinical ADHD Pathway Feasibility Study; notes the four pilots that the Scottish Government funded following these recommendations, the establishment of a neuro-affirming community of practice and ongoing scoping work on demand and capacity for adult neurodevelopmental services, including work with NHS boards and local authorities on local neurodevelopmental data; calls on the Scottish Government to convene a cross- party summit on addressing waits for neurodevelopmental support and mental health capacity to avert a crisis for individuals and families waiting too long; recognises the progress made towards the Scottish Government’s commitment to allocate 10% of NHS spending to mental health and 1% to CAMHS by the end of the current parliamentary session; thanks the dedicated NHS and wider workforce for its hard work in providing neurodevelopmental and mental health services in this time of increased demand, and calls on the Scottish Government to publish data on the number of patients with neurodevelopmental conditions who are being removed from CAMHS waiting lists.”
“On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Similarly, I was unable to connect. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Macpherson. We will ensure that that is recorded. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 96, Against 18, Abstentions 0.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the Edinburgh integration joint board, NHS Lothian, the City of Edinburgh Council and any other relevant organisations regarding any impact on patients, communities and statutory services of reported reductions to preventative initiatives and services. (S6O-04713)”
“I mentioned the targeted work that has been done with the five main local authorities with the most pressures on temporary accommodation. Ben Macpherson mentioned the £80 million for voids and acquisitions. Voids are usually part of the day-to-day management of a council but, given the interventionist approach that the Government is keen to take, we have provided funding, which the City of Edinburgh Council and others have taken up. I welcome the fact that Ben Macpherson got to join the First Minister to mark phase 1 of Granton waterfront and the £16 million that went to it from the housing infrastructure fund. That is another way in which the Government can provide infrastructure funding to unlock sites such as”
“Can the cabinet secretary say more about the difference that changes to the local housing allowance would make? Shirley-Anne Somerville: As I mentioned in my statement, if the UK Government moved on its position on the local housing allowance, it would make a tremendous difference in Edinburgh and elsewhere. At the ask of councils, an analysis has been done of the impact of the change in local connections, which shows that there is a flow of pressure from one council to another and not a particular pressure on one council. However, we will keep an eye on that particular matter. It is an important part of people’s rights that I have no intention of taking away, but we will always look at the impact that it is having.”
“As the Scottish Government has emphasised, the drivers of the housing emergency are long-standing, complex, interconnected and strongly related to inequality. Although build-to- rent accommodation has a role, it is not a panacea. There are many measures to take, and the cabinet secretary has mentioned some of the measures that the Scottish Government is taking in Edinburgh—where the emergency is most acute—such as the £80 million investment to realise voids and for acquisitions, and the investment in Granton as a strategic site. How is the Scottish Government working with the City of Edinburgh Council to address the emergency and the severe situation with homelessness and temporary accommodation? Could it perhaps consider keeping the local connections regulations under review in places where there is real pressure, such as here?”
“To ask the Scottish Government how it is working with partners to support the port of Leith’s contribution to Scotland’s net zero ambitions. (S6O-04701)”
“As a result of a members’ business debate that I led last year, we now have a ministerial round table on Scottish football. Can that do more? What more can the Government do on engaging with public policy on town centre regeneration? Are there planning law considerations that could be utilised? In engaging with the UK Government, what more can be done about gambling online? To give credit where it is absolutely due, we have an ally in our former colleague, Ruth Davidson, who has done a lot of work on the issue in the House of Lords. The minister may want to engage with her, and with other politicians in the UK Parliament, on how we do more to tackle this very serious and growing issue with regard to the damage that it is causing and its prevalence in our everyday lives. 17:28”
“All our major sports are now disproportionately dominated by gambling advertising. The Premier League in England has, commendably, committed to try to remove gambling companies as the main shirt sponsor, from next season onwards. Whether that transpires or not, we have still to see, but major football clubs, and indeed leagues, are currently sponsored by those companies. I appreciate that that is because gambling has a relationship with sport through the process of putting bets on—the whole concept of gambling is, in many cases, related to sport. Nonetheless, we are getting to a situation where that needs serious attention. Most regulation of gambling is reserved, whether it is through the Gambling Commission or hard regulation in law, but we should think about the soft power that the Scottish Government could use.”
“I appreciate that it is slightly different, but for those who are affected, it is just as damaging, and—as the motion sets out, and as other members have articulated—it is a significant concern in our constituencies. As my colleague said, in approaching how we engage with and assist those who are experiencing gambling addiction, it should be treated as a health issue, from a person-centred perspective. However, we, as a Parliament and as a society, should perhaps spend more time considering how to work collaboratively with our colleagues in the UK Parliament, and beyond the jurisdiction of the UK, on addressing the prevalence of gambling addiction in our society. All the main streets in my constituency have a bookies. If you go on the internet, gambling is advertised there.”
“I, too, pay tribute to Clare Adamson for lodging her motion and bringing to the chamber a debate on this important issue, and to Stuart McMillan for all the work that he has done over recent years. I want to speak in the debate not just because the issue affects many of my constituents—as is the case for many constituencies across urban Scotland and beyond—but because it is an area of public policy and concern in our society that we do not talk about enough. There is—quite rightly and understandably—an emphasis, and debate and discussion, on the challenges that we face as a result of addiction to alcohol and illegal drugs, but gambling does not seem to get the same attention.”
“I would like the Government to consider that not only are single-use sponges a single-use plastic but, through the process of cleaning, they create microplastics that then go into the water system, especially if their scourer parts are plastic ones. There is comment internationally about that issue, and I have wondered for some time whether we need more action. We would need an affordable alternative that is not a microplastic and is a sustainable product. People use those sponges every day, and I am concerned about the amount of microplastics that goes into the water system. Although they are not big bits of litter, the issue does matter. This has been a great debate. Thank you for the time, Presiding Officer. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Macpherson. We come to Mark Ruskell, who is the final speaker in the open debate.”
“The Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill, which came through the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee last year, creates some important opportunities. However, we need to be careful about seeing the application of charges on single- use products as a meaningful solution. The plastic bag charge is not the same as the potential plastic cup charge. We should not give all products the same consideration, because they are different and people might use reusables in different circumstances. Bans on certain products have been really meaningful, whether it is cotton buds, plastic straws or nurdles—which are an issue that we face in the Firth of Forth.”
“With regard to litter, when young people come into the Parliament or when I visit schools—I do not know whether other colleagues have experienced the same—one of the questions that I am nearly always asked is, “What are you going to do about litter?” Young people say, “We really do not like litter. We are really appalled by litter,” and yet something changes in our culture later in life and some people think that it is okay to throw litter, whether that is on the street or into a river or the sea. Although I support measures such as the plastic bag charge and bans on some products, which I will talk about in a minute, how we change the culture around the acceptability of dropping litter is still the perennial challenge in this regard. It must become totally unacceptable, socially, if we are going to make the progress that we need to make.”
“The wet wipes issue is the biggest one, and Scottish Water has done a good job of raising awareness of the fact that people should not flush wet wipes down the toilet or put them down the drain in any way. That is about a culture change, because, in the past, people perhaps did not realise that they were doing something wrong by doing that. We have moved positively, but there is more to do. Issues with sewage water overflows need to be discussed carefully. For example, my constituents have expressed concern when there have been genuine issues with sewage water overflows that have required the attention of the authorities. However, some politicians have also created undue and inaccurate alarm, chasing headlines about sewage, which is not good for anyone. That is just a word of caution.”
“The whole of the east coast of Scotland and our capital city have contended with these issues for some time. We are seeing change and improvement; for example, there are now oysters in the Firth of Forth, which is excellent in terms of the increase of biodiversity and nature restoration. However, we still face big challenges together, as the volunteers who clean these beaches discover every time they go down to the beaches and do the good work that they do, picking up bagfuls of litter. I will say more on that in a moment. The issue of sewage has been touched on. As the chair of the Seafield waste water treatment works stakeholder group for the past nine years, I am very aware of the challenge of the pressure of a growing population, the effect of climate change and the difficulties that those issues can present.”
“I pay tribute to my colleague for bringing this important issue to the chamber and to the work of the Marine Conservation Society, which I have had the pleasure of engaging with on beach clean-ups in Wardie Bay in my constituency, for example. I know that other members support their local beach clean-ups. Volunteers, along with the Marine Conservation Society and others, have really helped to bring attention to these issues in the political context and in the media, which builds our collective awareness of the issue of marine pollution in the places that we call home. I represent the constituents of Edinburgh Northern and Leith, which includes Granton harbour, Newhaven harbour, port of Leith and the beach of Wardie Bay, as I mentioned.”
“That energy mix includes nuclear power, which is a long-term position that we must take, and I oppose Patrick Harvie’s view on that. Renewables infrastructure is vital, too, but we have to look at what happened in Spain in recent days, when the volatility and frequency of the national grid led to blackouts. Patrick Harvie: Will the member give way? Michael Marra: No, thank you, sir—I am just concluding. We must ensure that there is a solid and predictable base load that can be used in the energy infrastructure—the absence of that was the principal reason why Spain’s grid fell over. We must also ensure that there is a sustainable energy mix that is not reliant on just one source and which includes oil and gas, renewables and nuclear. 17:31”
“I will add the demand to scrap the EPL to the £70 billion of spending demands that the SNP made ahead of the UK budget and its opposition to £45 billion of revenue raisers, which would be a fiscal adjustment of £115 billion. Ministers should remember that Liz Truss crashed the economy on a fraction of that amount. Returning to some kind of sanity, Paul Sweeney gave us a practical example of how a sound industrial policy could be pursued. It would be welcome if the minister either found time in his closing remarks to cover Paul Sweeney’s eminently sensible proposal or wrote to him to cover the engagement that the Government has had with the John Wood Group about a concerning set of developments. We need to have a balanced energy mix in this country, and oil and gas will be part of that for decades to come.”
“The SNP did not oppose it, then it actively supported it and now it does not support it and wants to get rid of it entirely. That is not a credible position. Ben Macpherson: [Made a request to intervene.] Gillian Martin: Will the member take an intervention? Michael Marra: I will not take any interventions—I am afraid that I have a lot to get through. I am sorry. We must also recognise that the EPL makes a significant contribution to the UK’s coffers. That is part of the reason why we were able to give an extra £5.2 billion to the Scottish Government, which was the largest-ever uplift in the Scottish Government’s budget, and it was delivered by the UK Labour Government.”
“I therefore do not think that it is reasonable for the Conservative Party to set out, publish and get right behind plans for infrastructure across the north-east only to then make a complete volte face and take an opposite approach, which is what came out in some of the speeches and what the previous UK Government did when it was in charge just over a year ago. I have sat in the living rooms of people across the north-east who are entirely worried about the situation and, although members are right to identify the matter, it is not well served by flip- flopping to take an opposing position. Whether ministers accept it or not, some of the critique of the SNP’s position on the energy profits levy is well founded—talk about flip-flopping.”
“Issues of demand and supply, problems of tariffs and industrial policy globally are creating significant headwinds. On that basis, I agree with colleagues’ calls to ensure that we get the almost mythical energy strategy to come forward from the Scottish Government. We need to have a trend and an understandable direction of travel from the Government, for people to know where they can invest and where they will have security in doing so. It would be welcome if, in his closing remarks, the minister gave us a date for that strategy. Governing an energy transition is incredibly difficult, and we must all recognise that challenge. Not only is it challenging to govern a change on such a fundamental issue of policy, but it requires significant investment.”
“I implore the Scottish Government and the UK Government to work together on a package that will genuinely redirect the funds from those who profited from causing the crisis to funding the just transition. 17:27 Michael Marra: I associate myself with the remarks that called for some mark of realism, including Ben Macpherson’s fine speech and Willie Rennie’s contribution about the need for some kind of clarity, consistency and a real plan to govern in a challenging time. The volatile external international economic environment in which the oil price is fluctuating and dropping quite significantly is creating significant challenges for our most vital oil and gas industry in the north- east—and, as I set out in my opening speech, for the whole country.”
“I draw members’ attention to the paper that Oil Change International produced, which sets out clear measures about how the UK Government could “raise over £6 billion a year” to fund “a just transition.” The measures include taking money from the fossil fuel profiteers, converting the temporary energy profits levy into a permanent, predictable and fair tax on the big oil industry—that would generate at least £2 billion annually—as well as closing tax loopholes that benefit those who do not need it and stopping funding fossil fuels. Advocates often claim that it is renewables that need subsidy, but the fossil fuel industry is getting producer subsidies on a vast scale of much more than £2 billion a year. That money should be redirected from the causing of the problem to the solution.”
“Our challenge is in grid infrastructure, storage, interconnection and, for consumers, in the artificially high price that people are forced to pay for renewable electricity, which is cheap to produce but expensive to consume, as well as in other barriers to the uptake of electricity to displace fossil fuels from heat and transport.”
“The Labour amendment comes from a political party that is still equivocating on the future of the unlawfully granted licences for Rosebank and Jackdaw—indeed, it has not told us whether it will finally kill off the projects that the previous Government unlawfully granted approval for. Moreover, Labour is continuing its obsession with nuclear. Even before considering the issues of nuclear safety or waste, nuclear is wildly expensive and slow to build—it cannot and will not help with the Labour Government’s goal of decarbonising electricity by 2030, as it is simply too slow to do that. More to the point, Scotland does not need nuclear. More generating capacity is not our challenge.”
“In my opening speech, I used so much of my time pouring scorn on the Conservative position that I forgot to pour any on the two amendments. In the Government’s amendment, the SNP is correct to call out the Tories’ anti-climate rhetoric and to highlight the impact on employment, including in Grangemouth. However, it fails to acknowledge that the unjust transition that we are seeing is the result of choices that have been made by an industry and by private sector interests that have extracted vast profits over many years, are now abandoning that industry’s workers and are not being held to account by the Scottish Government or the UK Government. The idea that the best response now is a massive tax cut for the fossil fuel profiteers that have caused that crisis simply beggars belief.”
“The Scottish and UK party leaders have said so, and they have said nothing about what the alternative target date should be. As for the rest of the political spectrum, I hope that, when we see the advice from the Climate Change Committee on the new carbon budgets—I think that the Government has already seen it, but in looking at the minister, I see that that is not the case, so I hope that when we all see the advice and the response to it, we will all reject the kind of anti-climate rhetoric that we are hearing far too much. Just as is the case with other parts of the far right’s rhetoric, copying it and aping it will do nothing to defeat it, so we should not do what the Conservatives are doing by copying Reform on the issue.”
“There are good opportunities, these are serious issues and this is a really important aspect of our economy and our country, so let us be constructive and solution focused in moving forward to support those people for the benefit of our country and us all. The Deputy Presiding Officer: We move to closing speeches. 17:23 Patrick Harvie: I genuinely hope that those in the Conservative Party who want their party to continue to show leadership on climate action— they are out there somewhere—are able, at some point, to take back control of their party, if I can borrow that phrase. It is very clear that, under its current leadership in Scotland and the UK, the party is abandoning its commitment to net zero, whether that is by 2045 or 2050.”
“There has also been a sense from the Conservative party that it has not had any involvement in the issue. I know that it has not been in power in Scotland since 1955, but it was in power across the UK for many years until last year, so it should take responsibility for its role, too. A lot more could be said about this important issue. The reality is that we face a declining basin in the North Sea. The challenge for us all is how to support those who are transitioning to new roles and to identify the areas of growth for their skills to be utilised to great effect—for example, in the port of Leith, where I held a round-table meeting on skills the other day.”
“I wish that he had been as constructive in his opening remarks and in the way that he spoke yesterday. I welcome the fact that the motion includes reserved issues and calls for a Scottish Government strategy. Those things go against points that have been made on the Conservatives’ side of the chamber in previous debates, so I look forward to the party welcoming discussion on reserved issues in this Parliament where that is appropriate, and welcoming Scottish Government strategy documents when they are necessary and will make a difference. Remarks were made that only one party is standing up for the Scottish oil and gas sector or the north-east of Scotland. That is simply not true, as has been evidenced by other contributions that were made today, and it does not help us.”
“We could do more than have a party-political knockabout when it comes to this issue. Douglas Lumsden: To take the politics out of it, does the member support my call for an emergency summit at which Governments and trade unions could get together to look at what is happening in the oil and gas industry and try to do something about it? Ben Macpherson: The need to respond, particularly when there are job losses, and to see what can be done is absolutely something to consider. It would be appropriate for the Government to respond to that point. Alasdair Allan: Will the member take an intervention? Ben Macpherson: I ask the minister to use his own speaking time, as I have a few more things to say. That was a very constructive intervention from the member.”
“I remember going to the conference in Aberdeen when I worked in different roles in the private sector, and it was a great experience. It is a really important event that brings people from across Europe to our country to continue to develop our energy sector, including the oil and gas sector, and the just transition. The fact that the conference has moved to Glasgow is symbolic of the fact that this is now a wider issue than just what happens in the north- east. However, I hope that those who are in Glasgow today are too busy to be watching this debate, because of the way that we have gone about discussing this very serious issue—which, according to the latest figures, involves about 12 per cent of our gross domestic product and £25 billion of our gross value added.”
“I am grateful to speak in this debate on this important issue. I appreciate that it is particularly significant to colleagues who represent the north-east of Scotland. However, as I have said in similar debates such as the one that took place last year, the North Sea oil and gas sector and the wider energy industry are important to all of Scotland, including my constituency, where the port of Leith services many different shipping vessels that work in the industry and are at the forefront of the just transition to renewables. In addition, many of those in our service industries, such as in legal, consulting and planning, are based in the central belt but work in the North Sea. The sector is therefore important to all of us, as is the transition. That is symbolised by the All- Energy conference, which is taking place today and tomorrow.”
“He has gone through quite a few somersaults to try to mischaracterise that position. Liam Kerr: That is an extraordinary intervention, given that, when in their role as First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon and Humza Yousaf— who has run from the chamber because he does not want to be drawn on it—and the leader of the SNP in the House of Commons were delighting in the energy profits levy. It is an extraordinary intervention to make. The UK Labour Government presents a clear and present danger to Scotland’s oil and gas industry, but misdirection, revisionism and spin from the SNP are causing untold damage. The way to protect our oil and gas industry is by taking the steps that are set out in Douglas Lumsden’s motion, and that is why I support it. 17:06”
“However, in a response to Douglas Lumsden in March, the cabinet secretary said: “The £80 million is for when the Acorn project gets track status, in order to make the early developments to get it off the ground.”—[Official Report, 11 March 2025; c 5.] I have some wonderful news today: Acorn has been granted track 2 status. However, that was in July 2023. There can be no more blame shifting and no more excuses, minister. It is time to pony up. I will take the intervention. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Please make it very brief, minister. Alasdair Allan: I am seeking a little clarification from the member, because it is difficult to recognise his characterisation of the Scottish Government’s position on the EPL, given that we, as a Government, did not oppose the initial levy but opposed its extension.”
“When I asked in January what assessment the Government has made of the impact on investment and activity levels in the North Sea as a result of the presumption against new exploration for oil and gas, the answer was so devoid of detail—other than that it was clear that nothing was happening on that—that I felt the need to formally complain to the Minister for Parliamentary Business. Finally, before I take an intervention, the minister talked of Acorn and aimed both barrels at the UK Government, but failed to mention that, in 2022, the then energy minister promised £80 million to Acorn, with no conditions, no caveats and no contingencies.”
“Of course they do, because the continuing uncertainty caused by the SNP’s draft energy strategy, which was published more than two years ago, still includes a presumption against oil and gas licences. There is little that does more to stifle investment, innovation and entrepreneurship—and, indeed, shake business confidence—than years of uncertainty over Government policy. However, this Government has no idea what impact the uncertainty that it has created is having.”
“Will the member take an intervention? Liam Kerr: No. I will come back to the member after I have made my proposition. In fact, in a speech a few weeks later, Humza Yousaf said: “We support a windfall tax”. By extraordinary coincidence, he was introduced and welcomed to the stage that day by Stephen Flynn MP—he who led a Commons debate in March 2022 demanding extra taxes on companies such as the oil industry, and who recently described the windfall tax as “the right thing to do”. The minister does the usual diversion of saying that this situation is about the UK’s licensing regime, but she admitted that people want to know the Scottish Government’s view on the reserved issue of licensing. Alasdair Allan: Will the member take an intervention? Liam Kerr: I will make my proposition and come back.”