Chua Sian Chin
Singapore
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I rise to speak on this Bill as a person who had been in Government for many years and before that in legal practice for more than eight years and now back in legal practice. While I was in Government, I had cognizance of the shortcomings of the legal profession.”
“It is 62 members out of a total of 1,335 practising lawyers. This has brought about a situation which no responsible government can let it pass in the public interest. The Government has good reasons to deal with this situation firmly. In fact, the present amendments have only made a small inroad in self-regulation.”
“At the same time, a minority group of activists has also chosen to take on the Government by calling an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Law Society to pass fierce resolutions against the Government. This group comprised only 62 members.”
“Though he has only limited Constitutional powers and acts on the advice of the Cabinet, he is the symbol of the unity, loyalty and aspirations of the people of Singapore.”
“- to hold classes for children of his constituents. What right has he got? The PAP MPs equally have no such rights. It is the right of the Government, if they think so, to have such classes. In fact, through the People's Association, they have been holding kindergarten classes in the community centres.”
“It is the Government who says that, and the Government has the right to say it because they are responsible for the Government of Singapore. And it is not what I say or what you say. Let me turn to the Member for Potong Pasir. He also produced some exhibits which are equally bogus.”
The complete record
Every one of 1,639 lines we hold for Chua Sian Chin, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 21 of 33.
“Sir, the Member for Anson's observation that there has been a recent spate of drug-taking incidents is not strictly correct. Our records have indicated that signs of drug abuse, especially amongst our youths, have started to decline. Strict enforcement action, such as the closure of discotheques in November last year, has to some extent helped to check the spread of drug abuse among youths. As to be expected, a number of existing young drug addicts have gone underground. However, a close watch is being kept on places that they are likely to gather. Eventually all of them will be sought out and action taken to help them rehabilitate. The Central Narcotics Bureau is doing all it can to raid all places and areas suspected of being haunts of drug addicts and abusers. The Director of the Bureau has since January this year sent 218 young drug addicts to St. John's Rehabilitation Centre for compulsory treatment and rehabilitation under section 33 of the Misuse of Drugs Act. In respect of the press report on sex and pot parties referred to by the Member, investigations have indicated that it has been highly exaggerated for sensationalism. The young people who gathered at Tanah Merah beach in Changi over the past few months did so in small separate groups. Most of them are teenagers, waiting for their examination results. The majority of them did not indulge in drug-taking or even in unseemly behaviour. However, surveillance has been kept by officers of the Central Narcotics Bureau. Since its inception in mid-November, 1971, the Central Narcotics Bureau has been very active. During 1973 a total of 3,339 arrests were made by the Bureau involving drug offences. Of these, only 507 or 6.4 per cent were committed by persons below 20 years of age. This is an encouraging sign.”
“This is a ridiculous follow up, Sir! First, it was a bowl of mee, and now it is because of dhoby charges, and so on. As I have said, this allowance is primarily for transport. We can go on ad infinitum - maybe he needs a pair of spectacles, and this too has now gone up in price.”
“Well, many group leaders. This is a matter of detail, but if the Member for Sembawang feels very strongly about it, he can write to me about it.”
“Sir, of course, if I can raise the allowance I will do so. But the point is that a good case must be made out before it can be raised. I find that a good case has not been made out to increase the allowance. Therefore, the suggestion will not be considered unless a good case can be made out to raise the allowances for the Vigilante Corps national servicemen. With regard to the two group leaders from Sembawang -”
“I hope the Minister will look into this matter more seriously, because I cannot accept the reasons that he has given for not increasing the allowance.”
“Sir, I do not think we need a parliamentary committee or a commission to look into this matter. As I said, public assurance has been given over and over again that any genuine complaint will be looked into and, if the culprit is identified, action will be taken against that person. I have also said: it is quite probable that the increase in the number of complaints means that members of the public are plucking courage to come up and make their complaints. It is a good thing. That is my feeling and assessment of the situation. Mr Lee Yiok Seng (Bukit Panjang)(In Mandarin): Sir, I would like to talk about the Vigilante Corps. I heard the Minister saying that he is not prepared to increase the training allowance for VC members. I feel that the reasons given by him are too simple to be credible. In actual fact, we should consider increasing the allowance for basic training. I understand that they are paid only 25 cents per hour for basic training, which is normally for a duration of four hours. Therefore, they get only a maximum of $1. Although they are given a concessionary rate for public transport, the minimum bus fare is 20 cents. Therefore, for a VC member to go to his centre for training, he spends 40 cents for his journey to and fro. Furthermore, he may spend 30 cents on drinks. This amounts to 70 cents. After the four-hour training at 10 o'clock, he may have a snack which costs about 50 to 80 cents. Therefore, according to my calculation, a VC member spends at least $1.20 to $1.50 on a night out for training. Therefore, to pay him $1 is inadequate. In the past, with $1 he could possibly have a balance of 30 cents to buy candy or sweets for his children. But time has changed.”
“Sir, we certainly do not want to be the proverbial monkeys or bury our heads in the sand. Let us look at it from a common sense point of view. If a person comes along with a complaint but is not prepared to substantiate it, what can we do about it? I can assure Members that these complaints go direct to the Commissioner of Police. They are investigated into, and if there is anything wrong with the investigation, then there are other avenues for further investigation. There is the Corrupt Practices Investigation Bureau, which can further investigate into the matter if we are not satisfied with the investigations conducted by senior Police officers. May I remind Members that these complaints are investigated by senior Police officers and, as the Member for Jalan Kayu has said, Police brutality is alleged to have been committed among the lower rung of officers. If the Commissioner of Police and the senior Police officers are involved with the investigations, what fear should there be?”
“Sir, I am not criticising the MPs. I am saying that they form a good channel through which such complaints can be made. I agree entirely with the Member for Jalan Kayu that before they put up complaints to the Ministry or to the Minister concerned, the matter must be properly presented. There must be statements and so on. I agree. But if the person who wants to complain refuses to give a statement, we can draw our own conclusions. Why do they refuse to give a statement? Members can say that the complainant is frightened. But what can we do if he is not willing to substantiate his complaint? The complaint must be substantiated with a statement. Is that so difficult for the complainant? If he does not want to give a statement, then what can we do? I appreciate the difficulties of the MPs. In the same way, if a person comes to the Ministry himself to make a complaint and he refuses to give a statement, what can we do? Then the matter must lie there. I am not criticising the MPs at all.”
“We have to be fair to both sides, and when the whole truth is out appropriate action can be taken.”
“Sir, may I clarify the point about Police brutality? It is not that the Minister or the Police Commissioner is not aware of it. The point is, as I have said, we do not tolerate Police brutality if there is a genuine complaint. If complaints are made, they will be investigated. In fact, if the Member wants to know more about it, he can put in a Question for oral answer and he will get a detailed answer as to whether any action has been taken in respect of such complaints. I think that will be more satisfactory. The other point is about complaints and why members of the public are reluctant to complain. The Member says that the Central Complaints Bureau is ineffective. I do not think the Bureau is ineffective. We do get complaints from the Central Complaints Bureau. But at the same time there is no reason why members of the public should not approach their MPs. Our MPs are very hard-working; they look after the interests of their constituents. In fact, one complaint came to me through one of the MPs, and it is being investigated. I do not think we should have another bureau. It is just bureaucracy being duplicated. The MPs are the persons to whom the complaints should be made. MPs have been writing complaints to me on behalf of their constituents, and there should not be any fear on the part of members of the public to make complaints so long as they are genuine complaints and not motivated by some other ulterior motive. Of course, in any organisation, we have the black sheep. II is only when these complaints are investigated that we can know who the black sheep are, so that action can be taken. Instead of making general complaints, it will be more helpful if particulars of the complaints are given so that the matter can be looked into.”
“They will be along the lines of the mass campaigns which we have had, for instance, the "Keep Singapore Clean" campaign, where Members of Parliament as well as the Citizens Consultative Committees are involved. I hope the Member for Sembawang will actively support this campaign.”
“But, of course, the Member has mentioned a number of cases where members of the Vigilante Corps were deployed in areas away from their residence. There might have been exceptions but as far as possible we try to deploy them in the areas where they live for obvious reasons. With regard to the complaint about long hair, the Member has thought fit to raise it again, although I had answered the question quite comprehensively last week. In any case, may I say that it is always our policy to take action against those who sport long hair. Of course, if the Member for Sembawang has seen any Government officer with long hair, he can himself make a report straightaway and action will be taken. He also mentioned that in some of the films, and I suppose he has seen them, the heroes have got long hair. He said that this should be discouraged. I agree with him entirely but I thought he should have raised this matter with my colleague, the Minister for Culture, when his Ministry came up for debate. He has also brought up the matter about fostering better relations between the police and members of the public. May I say that this has always been at the back of our minds, as a result of which we have been conducting Police Weeks. For the information of Members, this year we are going to have a much bigger campaign to foster this relationship. It will come on in June. In place of the Police Week we are going to have a "Keep Singapore Crime Free" campaign. Not only will the theme of good public relations with the Police be stressed, but there are also other themes, for example, how members of the public can help to prevent crime.”
“One of his complaints is that the Force is a bit too small. He wants it to be enlarged. At the moment the strength of the Community Security Force is about 2,400. However, because of the initial success achieved by the Community Security Force, plans have already been made to expand it to 5,000 by July, 1974. Although the present force is mainly deployed in the urban areas which are more crime prone, it may be possible later on to deploy them to the rural areas in which the Member for Sembawang may have a vested interest. With regard to the case put forward by the Member for Sembawang for increasing the travelling allowance to members of the Vigilante Corps, I would like to say that the Ministry will not consider any increase in the allowance given to national servicemen in the Vigilante Corps, in view of the increase in bus fares and in petrol prices. The reason is that members of the Vigilante Corps have been granted concession rates for travel on buses. For a revised fare of 20 cents to 40 cents, the Vigilante Corps national servicemen need only pay 20 cents. Thus, the total increase in bus fares would only be marginal compared to the total allowance paid for each duty session. On the question of giving an increased allowance to offset increases in petrol prices, I do not think that an affirmative decision will be consistent with our policy, which the House has heard for the last one week, to persuade owners of private vehicles to economise in their use of petrol. Furthermore, members of the Vigilante Corps are deployed for limited policing in increasing numbers, and they will patrol the vicinity of their own residence. Therefore, the necessity for travel will be considerably reduced.”
“For acts of brutality by members of the Police Force, which are substantiated, disciplinary action has been taken and will continue to be taken. Members can be rest assured of that. The other point was about a person who committed a traffic offence was found without a driving licence and was put in a lock-up. Of course, technically, if a person cannot produce his driving licence or an identity card to establish his identity, he will be arrested. But we have given instructions to members of the Traffic Police that in cases where a person cannot produce his driving licence or identity card, but if he can satisfy the Traffic Police of his identity, then he should not be arrested. Technically, of course, he can be arrested. With regard to the complaint about the Police Division under which jurisdiction Jalan Kayu is included, of course, that Division covers a vast area under the charge of an 0/C. It is a Rural Division. Therefore, coverage tends to be larger because there is less population. It is like the delineation of the constituencies. Some urban constituencies are much smaller in area than rural constituencies which are very large because the population in the rural areas is more sparsely spread out than in the urban areas. But I agree that the Police Divisions - we have eight Land Divisions - - which had been fixed years ago, have to be re-delineated. A review is now being made to re-delineate these Police Divisions in the light of developments which have taken place in recent years. With regard to the Member for Sembawang's comments, I would like to thank him for paying tribute to us for setting up the Community Security Force of the Vigilante Corps. Of course, he has also at the same time made some complaints which I will deal with now.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I say to the Member for Potong Pasir and the Member for Bras Basah that there are many items under which they can raise their points. They should not worry about them. They should not be too impatient. First, may I just touch on the point raised by the Member for Jalan Kayu? He raised the point that allegations or complaints of Police brutality are on the increase. As far as I can see, I do not know whether Police brutality is actually on the increase or because people are now more conscious of their rights that there have been an increase in the number of complaints. In any case, I would like to emphasise that, as far as the policy of the Ministry of Home Affairs or that of the Police is concerned, we do not tolerate Police brutality. I made this very clear in my speech last year at the annual dinner of the Police Force - I think it was sometime in September or October - that as far as the Ministry of Home Affairs is concerned, we do not tolerate Police brutality. I agree entirely with Members that if we do not check any instances of Police brutality, whatever we do in Police Week to foster good relations between the public and the members of the Police Force will come to naught. One instance of an actual occurrence of brutality can undo all the good work that has been done. In other words, one single shower can wet the whole field. Of course, there are always two sides to a case. Let us be fair. There will be allegations. Some are true. Some are motivated by revenge. Therefore, some may not be true or some may be true. But I assure Members that every complaint, whatever the motivation, is thoroughly investigated into.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, that I think is not a matter of policy.”
“I myself was very disturbed when I heard that. In fact, the Member for Anson should have written to me, but he thought it fit to bring it up only now. He should have brought it up to me in a letter, which lie normally does. The point is this, and I have said just now, we try to give prompt attention to emergency cases, but the trouble is that the non-emergency cases crowd into the Emergency Unit. As a result, genuine emergency cases may have inadvertently escaped attention. In fact, the doctors and nurses now and then pick cases which need urgent attention and they do give prompt attention straightaway. The non-emergency cases, of course, have to wait.”
“It is not possible to have all sorts of specialists in one ward. In so far as congestion in the ward is concerned, it is hoped to alleviate this situation when the new Outram Road General Hospital is completed, when we will then have more beds in the Paediatric Unit. Of course, the problem is that we will have more and more children, and that is why family planning has to be stressed. The Member for Anson also referred to non-paying wards in the Paediatric Unit in the Outram Road General Hospital. By this, I suppose he refers to C class wards, and his implication is that there is no crowding in the A and B class wards. In fact, in the Outram Road General Hospital there are no A and B class wards for children. With regard to patients being turned away because doctors have gone to the University to give lectures to medical students, may I say that patients, whether they are attended to by the University doctors or Government doctors, are usually requested to come on the appointed day. With regard to bills, they are never sent partially to the patient and the employer. As far as the Ministry of Health is concerned, bills are sent to either the patient or the employer. A bill is sent to the employer if the employer is willing to furnish a letter of guarantee. However, if an employer is not willing to furnish a letter of guarantee, the bill is always sent to the patient. In industrial cases where it is possible to identify the employer, the bill is always sent to him. However, in a manually operated system which has to cater for anything up to 180 bills per day, minor errors are bound to occur. However, Members may wish to know that the feasibility of computerising the billing system is under active study, and we hope to implement it before long.”
“Sir, in reply to the Member for Anson, I would like to enlighten him by saying that it is not true that doctors in the Emergency Unit do ward duties. For his information, there are 18 doctors attached to the Emergency Unit of the Outram Road General Hospital on full-time, and they do not do ward duties at all. Up to March, 1972, there were only 12 doctors attached to the Emergency Unit. This number was increased to 18 in April, 1972. The Head of the Unit is a surgeon, and these doctors are also not on 24-hour call-duty but on a shift duty of eight hours each. The Head of the Unit is a surgeon and he operates on cold cases as well. May I assure the Member for Anson that emergency cases are always promptly attended to by doctors. However, the problem here is that non-emergency cases come in to crowd the Emergency Unit, which is meant for emergency cases. As a result, there could be occasions when a genuine emergency case escaped notice and was not given proper attention. The Member has quoted some particular cases. If he wants me to look into them, he should write to me and give me the details. We will certainly give him satisfaction. He is in the habit of writing to my Ministry and myself, and I hope he continues with that habit. With regard to paediatricians, I would like to assure him that there is no shortage of specialist paediatricians. In fact, there are 12 trained paediatricians with higher qualifications working in the children's ward in the Outram Road General Hospital. In the past year more doctors have acquired a higher qualification in paediatrics. However, no skin specialists are available in such wards. Skin specialists are available in units specialising in this field, and references are made to such specialists, if necessary.”
“Sir, I just want to assure Members that we are concerned about this question of resignation of doctors and we are looking seriously into it. That is why I said that the Ministry has appointed a committee to look into the question of housing for our doctors. I think one of the attractions of retaining them in the service is the provision for housing. With regard to the National Wages Council, I do not know why the Member for Telok Blangah is very averse to the NWC. Of course, I quite understand him. He is a trade unionist. The point is: I did not say that medical officers should not have wage revisions. I said that it should be revised in the national context, not only for medical officers but also the other officers. That is the point which I want to put clearly.”
“Does the Member have the facts and figures?”
“No. They are erring on the side of safety as far as sodium hydroxide is concerned, because there have been deaths caused by caustic soda or sodium hydroxide, whether intentionally or unintentionally. With regard to methyl salicyclates, I have already said in my answer that we are now going to alter the classification of medicinal products and we will have that embodied in it in a comprehensive Medicines Bill. Perhaps the Member for Bras Basah will understand now that this matter was not taken in a light-hearted manner, though in a debate we do not want any fisticuffs. We take it with a sense of give-and-take, not in a fighting manner as otherwise we might end up with fists flying and so on. I am glad to see smiles on the faces of Members!”
“Sir, I think the Member for Bras Basah is a bit confused when he says that the Ministry of Health or myself has not taken this point very seriously. I do not think the Member for Bras Basah has even understood the Member for River Valley because his complaint is that they have been too strict about it. As far as sodium hydroxide is concerned ---”
“The trouble is that while he has made this allegation, I do not have the enforcement officer here to confront his charges. But since I represent them I will do as best as I can. Sir, I do not know of the actual instances where he says that they are unimaginative in their action. But to be fair, I always listen to both sides of the story and come to my own conclusion, not just one side of it.”
“Sir, if the Member for River Valley is less excited about the whole matter, I think he would have understood some of my answers. The trouble is he gets so excited that he does not understand me. With regard to the point he raised about Form A and Form E, may I say that if anyone buys from outside, that means he is importing. That is quite different from buying within Singapore. He may be an importer, a small time consumer or a big time consumer, but if he buys in Singapore, that is not importing. So different rules apply. With regard to the Poisons Advisory Committee which advises me as Minister, I am not saying that we will not consider his recommendation of a permanent committee. I am just pointing out to him that it is not fair to ask an ad hoc committee to meet regularly. He says this committee has gone to sleep. In fairness I must stand up to defend this committee. It is an ad hoc committee and it only meets when it is called to meet. So it is unfair to say that it has gone to sleep. The suggestion of the Member for River Valley was that we must form a permanent committee. Well and good, we will consider his suggestion. Perhaps I might even nominate him to be Chairman of this committee, since he is so well versed with the small details. If I do, then the suggestion made by the Member for Jalan Kayu will be met and I will be fed by a well-qualified chemist on matters of poisons. The other point complained of by the Member for River Valley is that these rules and regulations have not been implemented in the right spirit, but carried out to the letter of the law. There are always two sides to a question. That was his point of view, whereas the enforcement officer has his point of view.”
“For instance, all drugs including patent medicine classified as poisons if dispensed on a prescription need not be so labelled. Certain groups of medicine, e.g, insulin and antihistamine preparations, may be labelled with only the word "POISON" and in black letters. With regard to the Poisons Advisory Committee, this committee advises me on matters with regard to poisons and drugs. In fact, it is an ad hoc committee and not a standing committee. I do not think it is fair to say that this committee has gone to sleep. In fact, it is an ad hoc committee and a meeting of this committee is called when there is any matter to be discussed on and for their advice. In fact, this committee met on several occasions and made certain recommendations. With regard to further control to regulate the use of drugs, this is covered by two other Acts apart from the Poisons Act, namely, the Medicines (Advertisement and Sale) Act passed in 1968 and the Misuse of Drugs Act passed in 1973. However, may I say that additional controls are also being considered and my Ministry is now looking into measures for the registration of all medicinal products recommended for treatment of human ailments. The quality of control of all finished medicinal preparations are also being looked into. In fact, this is an all-embracing control and very much has to be done, and a thorough Medicines Bill is now in the process of being drafted. There may be some loopholes here and there with regard to medicines sold in Chinese medicine shops, and they will be taken care of when the new Medicines Bill is passed. At the moment, this very comprehensive Bill is being drafted.”
“Permits are issued free of charge to persons who have satisfied the Ministry that sodium hydroxide is necessary for their industries. In order not to inconvenience industrialists, permits are issued for quantities estimated for six months' requirements. Further, persons who wish to buy sodium hydroxide for resale, export or for scientific and educational purposes are exempted from applying for these permits. The rest of the rules consist of instructions to sellers when handling these permits and are well understood by all licensed sellers. With regard to the flexibility in labelling control which was referred to by the Member, may I say that poisons are controlled because of their toxicity and potentially harmful properties and in order to prevent accidents arising from their use. For the safety of workers handling these poisons, one basic requirement is that containers for poisons should be labelled with the name of the poison contained therein and with the cautionary words "POISON - NOT TO BE TAKEN" in red ink and any other specific cautions relevant to the form and danger of the chemical concerned. For example, sodium hydroxide is to be labelled "Poison - This substance is caustic." And the Poisons rule provides that they be printed in English, Chinese, Malay and Tamil. The requirements of labelling provided in the Poisons rules and enforced by the Ministry of Health are minimal for the protection of all persons handling dangerous chemicals in factories, laboratories, etc. These requirements are basic and universal. Any relaxation of these requirements would increase industrial hazards which I believe my NTUC colleagues would not support because it would be creating hazards for the workers. There are certain relaxations in labelling provided.”
“With regard to overcrowding of hospital wards, I have to inform the Member that now there is no overcrowding particularly after we took over the Alexandra and Sembawang Hospitals. Together, these two hospitals have an additional 469 beds. The Alexandra Hospital has at the moment 405 beds. This number will be increased to 430 beds. Furthermore a small hospital will be built in Changi to be called the Changi Chalet Hospital. This hospital will be equipped for the treatment of emergency, outpatient, and X-ray services and minor laboratory investigation. It will have about 36 beds. It is expected to be completed by the middle of this year. That is all I have to say with regard to the queries raised by the Member for Anson. Regarding the points raised by the Member for River Valley, I am glad, Mr Speaker, Sir, you ruled that this matter should have been brought up under a separate subhead. The whole tenor of the speech of the Member suggests that he was confused with regard to the rules pertaining to our Poisons Act. First, let me refer to the sodium hydroxide rules under the Poisons Act, 1958. May I inform the Member for River Valley that it is a simple piece of legislation with six paragraphs. Its purpose is to regulate the sale of sodium hydroxide, commonly known as caustic soda, so that it is available only to persons who require it for trade, business or industrial purposes. This has been made necessary to reduce the incidence of poisoning, intentional or otherwise, by this chemical which has caused death and injury prior to the introduction of this control. The rules require that licensed sellers may sell sodium hydroxide only to persons holding valid permits issued by the Ministry.”
“Sir, may I answer the Member for Anson first? For the Member's information, there is already an emergency unit at the Alexandra Hospital. It was opened in November 1971. However, at the beginning it was providing a limited service, i.e, only during office hours. In the middle of last year the hours were extended to 9 p.m, on weekdays and 5 p.m, on Sundays. But from the 1st of October last year, it operates a 24-hour service. At the same time, a new emergency complex, complete with operating theatres, X-ray department and intensive care area, was being developed in the Alexandra Hospital. This complex is expected to be comp1eted in May this year. This will certainly help to relieve the load on the Outram Road General Hospital. With regard to Sembawang Hospital, an emergency unit is also being constructed there, and this will be completed in the middle of this year. With regard to `Home Care' service as suggested by the Member, this is being looked into by the district nursing service which cares for patients who are discharged from hospitals. Similar care for mothers and new born babies after delivery are also provided by midwives. T.B., leprosy and V.D. patients are visited by investigators. However, all these services are in the process of being reorganised. It must, however, be pointed out that such services are not economical since considerable manpower has to be expended on the field. Whereas only four to six cases can be attended to per day by such visits, three or more times the number can be attended to at our Maternal and Child Health Clinics as well as the school clinics if the patients go to these centres.”
“Sir, may I clarify the point about sleeping on duty? What I said was this. If they are on call duty, it does not mean that they cannot sleep. When they are on call duty, they can sleep but have to wake up when somebody calls the bleep. It is very foolish while on 24-hour call duty to keep waiting for the bleep. I think the Member for Kim Seng understands what I have been trying to put across. With regard to the point that they work long hours, the situation was worse before, but not now. Because of the protests and so on, we have introduced a system whereby if a doctor is on night duty he gets an afternoon off on the following day. I cannot say that this system has been followed in every case, but it has been followed in the vast majority of cases. But, of course, being doctors they have to respond to the exigencies of the service. In fact, I know that in a few specialities, like surgery, obstetrics and gynaecology, they have to work longer hours than in the other specialities, maybe orthopaedic surgery.”
“Sir, the Member for Anson has not understood me. I have never made any promises as far as charges are concerned because they are levied according to the manual which is not put up by me. But if patients are to be charged, they will be charged. With regard to the difference between $3 and $2, I think I might have to take half an hour to explain to the Member for Anson for his enlightenment. This is in regard to specialist treatment for injuries and treatment of coughs and colds. Perhaps the Member for Kim Seng could help me explain to the Member for Anson outside Parliament the difference between specialist treatment and a simple outpatient service.”
“Yes, it is very easy for one person to change his tailor, but changing a contractor takes time. In any case, the contractor who gives the ill-fitting uniforms will be asked to change again and again, and that will incur more expense on his part. So that is his punishment. Of course, if he has been producing too many ill-fitting uniforms, he can be rest assured that he will not get the contract when the next tender comes up.”
“Not just words, but in practice. The other point is about ill-fitting uniforms. I think there may have been some cases. But one swallow does not make a summer. In fact, even if the Member for Telok Blangah goes to a tailor, he does not expect a right fit on the first fitting.”
“And as my colleague says, the union must also co-operate.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I have already explained the position. As far as post-basic qualifications for nurses are concerned, not all of them, in particular Staff Nurses, are entitled to an increment. But most of the courses do entitle the nurses to an increment. If they are entitled to it, they would have got it. The other point made by the Member for Telok Blangah is that too many Assistant Nurses and Student Nurses are around, and not many Staff Nurses. Let me just give him the figures. The student nurse population as at 1st March, 1974, is 763, as compared to 2,182 qualified nurses. In fact, each ward has a team of an average of 19 to 20 nurses, made up of Sisters or Nursing Officers, Staff Nurses, Assistant Nurses and Student Nurses at various levels of training. As far as shortage of nurses is concerned, every attempt has been made to expand the training school of nurses, and we have been getting larger intakes in the last year or two, in view of the expansion of our medical services. But, as you know, whatever calculations we make with regard to intake and projection, if we expand too fast, as we do at the moment, there is bound to be a shortage of manpower, including nurses. But the Member for Telok Blangah can be assured that we are training as many nurses as we can at the moment. In fact, when our calculations were made, they were based on a seven-night shift duty. But now because of the union's representation, we thought it reasonable and have changed it to a three-night shift. But surely the Member for Telok Blangah cannot expect us to do wonders and increase the population of nurses overnight. We do what we can.”
“In fact, those who are in private practice may have to work even harder, particularly when they are starting to establish their practice. On the analysis of resignation, Sir, among the doctors who have resigned there are those who do not go on 24-hour call duty at all, particularly those who work in outpatient dispensaries and school health clinics. The other point is the amendment to the Medical Registration Act which the Member for Anson has raised. The major change in the amendment to the Act is that we now have a local list of recognised medical qualifications. In other words, persons with qualifications which are not on this list, however, may be registered by the order of the Minister after they have satisfied the Singapore Medical Council that they have reached a standard of competence to practise independently. Normally the Medical Council makes its recommendations to the Minister, under the provisions of the new Act. The person would have to go through an examination set by the Medical Council to test his competency. This is quite important because we are letting him free to practise independently, and if he is not competent he will endanger the health and life and limb of members of the public. In 1972, two persons who did not have the recognised qualification were so examined. One passed and was recommended for registration. In 1973, there were six persons who applied for registration and were examined. One was successful and has been registered. This year one applicant will be examined in March/April, and six others have asked to be examined in September 1974.”
“A $2 fee is charged for each treatment in an ordinary outpatient dispensary, but a $3 fee is charged if one attends a specialist clinic attached to our hospitals. There is no such directive as the Finance Minister saying, "You charge $2 in this hospital and $3 in that hospital." With regard to the increase in hospital fees. I am glad the Member for Anson agrees with the Government policy that whoever uses the medical services should pay a token sum towards costs. This helps to check the abuse of these facilities, and perhaps instilling in our people an awareness that nothing is for free. However, it is not true to say that doctors often request patients to come back for check-ups after treatment. Requests for patients to come for second visits are only made when necessary. 3.45 p.m. With regard to the point about doctors being on call for 24 hours, may 1 enlighten the Member for Anson that this 24-hour on call duty is also true of doctors the world over, and certainly not peculiar to Singapore. However, I would like to say that it does not necessarily follow that the doctors do not sleep during such 24-hour duty. Perhaps the Member for Kim Seng can enlighten the Member for Anson on this matter. Nevertheless, doctors who are on call duty are given the day off the following day. With regard to the resignation of doctors, I may have something more to say when the Member for Kim Seng raises the matter under a different subhead. So I do not think I will deal with it in detail now. But may I just say that there are many reasons for a doctor to resign from Government service. It may not necessarily be associated only with working conditions. Some go out to be in private practice because they believe that they can earn more money.”
“But as she was adamant on her choice, her application was rejected. With regard to the promotion of those who have obtained this post-basic qualification, may I say that it is not possible to promote everyone who has this post-basic qualification. In a promotion exercise other considerations have to be met with. Moreover, not every post-basic qualification can be recognised. As far as nurses going abroad are concerned, they are always advised as to which post-basic qualifications are recognised. With regard to ill-fitting uniforms and shoes, may I say that uniforms and shoes are being supplied by a contractor. May I stress the fact that uniforms are made to measure. They are not ready-made uniforms. If, after measurement, the tailor does not give a fitting uniform then he will have to re-cut it at the expense of the contractor. Similarly with shoes. Therefore, it is not true to say that we are not aware of the fact. But such errors do occur sometimes, and when they do the contractor has to make good. With regard to fixed allowance for midwives, may I say that midwives serving in the City districts are paid $60 per month and those in the outlying districts are paid $70 per month. Those serving in the rural areas are paid $55 a month. This, of course, as you can see, is an anomaly inherited from the former City Council and the Rural Board, which paid different rates. The question of fixed allowances is now under review. Fortunately, no decision has been arrived at, at the moment, and because of the rise in fuel prices and taxi-fares it has been necessary to restudy the matter. With regard to the point brought up by the Member for Anson, may I just enlighten him on the $3 and $2 charges.”
“This was agreed to in principle with the union concerned, with the qualification that a pilot scheme should, in the first instance, be introduced at the Outram Road General Hospital. To-date, some hospitals have been able to implement completely this three-night duty cycle They are the Outram Road General Hospital, Middle-ton Hospital, and the Trafalgar Home. Some other hospitals, however, like the Woodbridge Hospital, Kandang Kerbau Hospital, and Thomson Road General Hospital have partially introduced the three-night duty shifts. The point is that it is not the Ministry of Health that does not want to introduce the three-night shift in all the hospitals. The reason why some hospitals have not introduced it completely is due to the shortage of staff. The Member can be assured that in due course the three-night shift duty will be introduced in all hospitals. With regard to granting of no-pay leave to nurses who wish to go overseas for their post-basic courses, the selection for granting this leave is based on the following criteria: (1) The training course must be directly related to the development and expansion of the medical services. (2) The course can be recognised for both post-basic increment, and (3) The course is not available locally. For the information of the Member, for the years 1972 and 1973, only two applications for no-pay leave to go on a post-basic course have been turned down. In 1972, 31 applications were received, of which only one was turned down. This applicant wanted to apply to go on a course at a time when many of her contemporaries were already abroad completing a course in plastic surgery. For the 1973 case, the applicant was advised to proceed on other types of courses which would meet the needs of the medical services.”
“Sir, may I refer to the Member for Telok Blangah first? He has raised this matter of uniforms of nurses. As a matter of policy, I would like to assure him, first of all, that it is not my policy to issue ill-fitting uniforms and ill-fitting shoes to our dedicated nurses. May I just move on to the other matters which have been raised? The first point he has raised is that there are too many Assistant Nurses around, and he thinks that we are taking in too many Assistant Nurses in order to exploit them. That is certainly not true. In fact, it is not true that there are more Assistant Nurses than qualified Staff Nurses. The other point which the Member has brought up is that Assistant Nurses have very little prospects for promotion or transfer to become student Staff Nurses. In fact, there is no lack of promotional prospects for them. Promotion from Assistant Nurse to Senior Assistant Nurse is based on merit and not necessarily based on the number of vacant posts. There are also opportunities for Assistant Nurses who do well in examinations to join as student Staff Nurses in the second year of the three-year Staff Nurse course. This is again based on examination results. Those who score 70 per cent and above are allowed to join these courses. Another opportunity also is given to serving Assistant Nurses who have failed to score 70 per cent but on the basis of good work are allowed to join the student Staff Nurse course. They are paid full salary while on this course. The other point raised is the three-night shift system for nurses in our hospitals. As a matter of fact, the Ministry of Health agreed to reduce the seven-night duty cycle to a three-night duty cycle for nurses.”
“Sir, I think the matter can be dealt with in the next subhead.”
“Sir, I object to the Member for River Valley raising the issue now when he has his own amendment under Head MA subhead AA 1105.”
“Sir, firstly, that supplementary does not arise out of the Question. Secondly, the first two phases of this new hospital will be completed sometime at the end of 1977. So I do not think I am in a position to answer the Member for Bras Basah on an event that will occur in 1977. SINGAPORE BUS SERVICE LIMITED (Tax exemptions) 7. Encik Abdul Aziz Karim asked the Minister for Finance if the Singapore Bus Service (Private) Limited is given exemption or concession in respect of payment of any duty or tax; and what is the rationale of continuing this policy when it has failed to serve the public interest.”
“When the design plans for the new buildings of the hospital are sufficiently advanced for visualisation of elevations, with models as well as more precise estimates of costs have been worked out, the donors of the Medical Progress Fund will be invited to a public meeting when the plans of this new development will be put to them.”
“The Government in accepting the report also decided that the recommended specialities of Neuro-Surgery, Cardio-thoracic Surgery, Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, Paediatric Surgery and Nephrology, should be developed within an integrated plan of expansion of the Medical Services in Singapore. This expansion plan included the building of new hospitals. The most significant of this hospital building programme is the re-development of the Outram Road General Hospital. The Government has now decided that all the major specialities which have been recommended for development will ultimately be housed in the new hospital to be built at Outram Road. This new hospital, which will be known as the Singapore General Hospital, will be Singapore's premier hospital and specialist centre. In July, 1973, the International Development and Construction Corporation (INDECO) was commissioned to build the new hospital at Outram Road on behalf of Government. The planning, preliminary site works and architectural designing of the new hospital are proceeding according to time-table. It is expected to be put to tender for the construction of the first two phases of the hospital before the end of the year. Since the original donations for specified schemes towards the development of the Institute of Medical Specialities have now been overtaken by these new developments as well as become inadequate as a result of rising costs, the Government has now decided to ask the donors to agree to their donations being used towards the development of this new premier hospital and specialist centre at Outram Road.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, in answer to part (a) of the Question, as at 28th February 1974, a sum of $3,548,359 stood to the credit of the Medical Progress Fund. (b) about 48 per cent or $1,321,757 of the total sum of $2,736,308 donated was to be used for specified purposes. A one-storey building for the Radiotherapy Department was completed in the Outram Road General Hospital in 1968. The cost of the project was $908,168. This comprised $620,690 for construction works and $305,478 for equipment and furniture. The equipment for the establishment of this speciality included the installation of a cobalt bomb unit. Half of the project cost, or $454,084, was met from the Medical Progress Fund and the other half by the Government in accordance with the Government's pledge of a dollar-for-dollar contribution. (c) interest accrued, from August 1965 to February 1974, on the moneys collected for the Medical Progress Fund amounted to $1,410,188. The interest has been put in fixed deposits for the purpose of generating further interest. (d) as originally conceived in 1965, the Institute of Medical Specialities was to have been built as a completely separate building within the compound of the Outram Road General Hospital. However, this concept has been superseded by events relating to the development of medical specialisation in Singapore. In December, 1969, I appointed a Committee to investigate the extent of development of medical specialities and to recommend a programme of development or creation of a number of selected specialities in order of priority, to achieve eminence as a centre of medical treatment, training and research. The report of the Committee of Medical Specialisation was received in October, 1970.”
“In 1972 there were a total of 154 suicides in Singapore of which 100 were males and 54 females. This number has decreased to 143 in 1973 with 87 males and 56 females. The suicide rates per 100.000 population for 1972 and 1973 work out to be 7.2 and 6.5 respectively.* (*The suicide rate per annum per 100,000 population (1966) for England and Wales was 10.4; Australia, 14.1; USA, 10.9; Japan 15.2 and Switzerland 20.1.) In 1972, 28 attempted suicides were reported to the Police of which 14 were made by males and 14 by females. In 1973, the number of attempted suicides dropped to 22 of which 12 were males and 10 were females. A breakdown of these figures according to the sex and age group is given 19 in the Tables+ attached. (+See cols. 323-4.) Table I - Suicide by Sex and Age-Group 1972-1973(Cols 323-324) The hon. Member may wish to be informed that the classification of a suicide by the Police is only made after investigations revealed that there is no suspicion of any foul play and that this verdict is confirmed at the Coroner's Inquiry. Cases of attempted suicides are recorded by the Police when the victims escape death and when it is established that they have made the attempt to take their lives. Table I - Suicide by Sex and Age-Group 1972-1973(Cols 323-324)”
“Sir, I am always willing to go out with the Member for Katong.”
“Sir, I can say that I am satisfied with the action that has been taken. But I cannot assure the Member for Katong that as a result of such action there will be no further infringements.”
“When the vehicle is stopped at this Checkpoint, the driver would be referred to the Bukit Panjang Police Station. The procedure would be the same as though the driver was stopped on the spot by a Police Officer. However, there are occasions when a warning would suffice for drivers who have committed minor traffic infringements. This is left solely to the discretion of the reporting or compounding officer. The Member for Katong is assured that action is always taken against vehicles displaying non-Singapore licence plates which violate traffic regulations irrespective of whether the driver is a Singapore resident or a non-Singapore resident.”