Goh Keng Swee
Singapore
“Sir, since that was not a supplementary question, may I be allowed to comment briefly on that. When we form a Committee of the House to inquire into an activity of the Government, the assumption must be that there has been something improper. In this instance, where is the impropriety?”
“The career of Brig-Gen Lee is well-known to the public. It has been published in the newspapers. Why then does he come out with all this drivel, other than to impute improper motives? Mr Jeyaretnam: Sir, I object to the term "drivel" as spelt out by the First Deputy Prime Minister. He should know better as a Member of this House.”
“Sir, this is getting most tiresome. So I will just say this - that Brig-Gen Lee Hsien Loong has proved himself in so many ways, both inside the Army and outside the Army, to be a person of outstanding quality. When the Member for Anson says the public are worried, he is again talking nonsense.”
“Sir, I rise to clarify. Actually, the limits are not set by me. I do not have a heavy hand. I regard the MAS as the implementing agency of Government, and in this respect I have to listen to the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Trade and Industry.”
“How you set them, how restrictive or how liberal, would determine two things: (1) the degree of imported inflation from abroad via goods and services from abroad, and (2), the degree of capital inflow from abroad which will affect our money supply in Singapore.”
“Sir, if the land could be more profitably used, say, for commercial or residential purposes and if the Minister for National Development requires such land, then, of course, the land will be acquired and the generous terms will apply.”
The complete record
Every one of 833 lines we hold for Goh Keng Swee, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 16 of 17.
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, In page 2, line 22, to leave out the bracket, and In page 2, line 23, to leave out the bracket. These are drafting amendments. Amendments agreed to. Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 7 -”
“The Member for Serangoon Gardens expresses the hope that we will not forget the P.D.F. - those who have volunteered so magnificently in the last year and a half and at some sacrifice. I assure him that we have the highest esteem for these volunteers and that their interest will be protected in every way possible. As regards uniforms, I absolutely accept his proposal that uniforms should be the same for all units, with, of course, differences in formation signs. The Member for Serangoon Gardens also asks whether section 21A covers the present P.D.F. Section 21A does not cover the present P.D.F. - that is, the obligation of the employer to grant leave to those on the national reserve to enable them to do their annual training. So the answer is `No'. But my Ministry' is thinking of amending the Ordinance to give members of the P.D.F. - that is, the volunteer members - the same kind of cover and protection. Finally, the Member for River Valley has asked me to deal firmly with evasion. I can give him an assurance that this is very much in my mind. Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. -[Dr Goh Keng Swee] Bill considered in Committee. [Mr Speaker in the Chair] 6.43 p.m. Clauses 1 to 4 inclusive ordered to stand part of the Bill. 6.45 p.m. Clause 5 -”
“I must ask him to remember that the national service we have here is compulsory and not voluntary. Anybody who is asked to join the full-time army and does not do so goes to gaol, and I do not think we have reached the stage where we will tell women, "Unless you do this, that or the other, you will spend six months in gaol." [Laughter] This is not a laughing matter at all. The Member for Bukit Timah makes a plea for families who may have two or three members called up. I do not see how this can happen unless, of course, they are twins and the particular parents are unusually prolific. Of course, in the law itself, there is allowance to exempt or defer national service on the ground of hardship where hardship can be proved. The Member for Bukit Timah and the Member for Ulu Pandan make a plea on behalf of students who are now studying in universities and ask that their service be deferred. I will lay them a bet of 100 to one that there is no student in Nanyang University or the University of Singapore who is liable to national service because this concerns only people aged 18 and those in the universities are at least 19, 20 years old or more. The Member for Ulu Pandan wants to retain voluntary participation in the Vigilante Corps and the People's Defence Force, and I think he has a valid point. We will, of course, try to take in people of other age groups who want to join up. But in the first phase of national service, I think the whole administration will be very hard put to it just to cope with the 18,000 or so who will have to do their national service this year. So when the machinery has settled down and we have more resources by way of instructors, barracks and classrooms, we will bear his suggestion in mind.”
“The Member for Joo Chiat has put forward a novel proposition that, instead of asking the youths to do four different kinds of service, they should all do the same service for two years and all part-time service. This is not practical, because if you do this, then you will not have an army because an army must be manned by full-time personnel. One way of getting everybody to do the same thing would be to get everybody to do full-time military training for two years, as it is being done in several countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Israel and others. But we have worked out the cost of this exercise and it is something that the Republic just cannot afford. In ten years' time, this kind of thing is guaranteed to make us completely bankrupt. The Member for Paya Lebar has made a very useful suggestion and that is that if in future non-citizens apply for citizenship, they should be required to do military service. I think this is a very valuable suggestion which the Government will bear in mind. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development is doubtful whether four registration centres would be enough and he thinks that all community centres should be mobilised into service. The point is that during the 16 days in which young men will be registered, there will be only 600 a day, and to deal with such a number a day, four registration centres would be sufficient provided that boys of 18 turn up on the scheduled dates. If, of course, they all turn up on one particular day, then the whole exercise would be busted. That can happen whether you have four centres or more than four centres. The Member for Tiong Bahru suggests that women should participate in national service.”
“We will see to it that the trumpets and bugles are properly tuned! The Member for Punggol has raised a number of important points. First, with regard to clause 5, he asks, "Why should the Minister and not the President issue the notice in the Gazette requiring people to register?" This, of course, is a routine administrative matter and it is not the usual practice to saddle the President with administrative measures of this kind. He asks, "Why not bring in youths from the ages of 18 to 25 into the national service?" And in this, he is supported by the Member for Anson. The answer is that the exercise will be bogged down by the sheer numbers involved. In each age group, you roughly have anything between 19,000 and 25,000, and if you extend it to say eight years, you may have to deal with something like 120,000 persons. We have neither the staffing, training nor physical resources to cater for national service on that scale, nor is it necessary really to do so. The payment of allowances for the Vigilante Corps is supported by the Members for Punggol, Havelock, Joo Chiat and Aljunied I am still of the opinion that service in the Vigilante Corps is voluntary and it should be made voluntary. I will try to make arrangements for free bus travel for those who have to attend training classes. The Member for Farrer Park has some curious notions about what sort of people would be required to join the full-time army. He thinks it will be the less intelligent and not the more brainy type. I can assure him that those joining the army will not only have muscles but will also have brains. So I think the fear that he has expressed that the personnel in Government service will be less and less intelligent is groundless.”
“So the Vigilante Corps will have a song-book before long, and I think, when the soldiers see that, they will insist that their professional officers produce a song-book which will be as inspiring. The Member for Bukit Merah objects to the practice of blowing a trumpet In the Infantry Regiments to announce meal-times. I myself cannot see anything wrong with it. If you do not have a trumpet, then you must have gongs or sirens or you let off fireworks. I do not know what the point is, whether meal-times should not be announced or should be announced with the use of some other instrument.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, may I, first of all, express my thanks and appreciation to Members of the House who have made so many useful contributions in the course of this debate. I think I am in general agreement with them as regards the necessity for taking the measures that we have to. Some Members have raised a number of points and have brought to my attention some problems which they think might arise in the course of the implementation of the Ordinance, and these points deserve comment from me. First, the Member for Telok Blangah has asked whether, if in future persons in military service are victimised in some way or other because they cannot do overtime as a result of military training, some safeguards cannot be found to protect their interests. The answer is, of course, in two years' time when these national servicemen, i.e, the full-time soldiers, go into the reserve and get employed under this Scheme of Direction of Employment, there will be no inducement for the employer to discriminate against the reservists, because if he does so and the reservist leaves his employment, what he will get as replacement is another reservist. The Member for Bukit Merah has brought up a theme very close to my heart, that is the singing of military songs by our soldiers. In fact, some months ago, I asked the professional officers to produce a song-book, but because they were trained in the British tradition, they could not see why an army should have a song-book. However, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture is producing a song-book for the Vigilante Corps. There are about 100 songs one third in the national language, one-third in Chinese and one-third in English.”
“Point of clarification, Sir. Before the hon. Member makes an error on this subject and confuses everybody, may I earnestly ask him to read the pamphlet which I gave the hon. Members of Parliament yesterday? At the age of 16½ the obligation is not to do national service but to register. This will give the Ministry something like 18 months in which to plan ahead. It is nowhere stated in the amending Bill that youths will be called up for national service at the age of 16½. All that is required is that they are to register and to give their particulars.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That Parliament do now adjourn. Question proposed. HUMILIATORY ARTICLES ON THE REPUBLIC IN THE UTUSAN MELAYU”
“Some might have wondered what this meant and might have dismissed it as so much talk. Now they know that it is not merely talk. Behind the exhortation lies a concept - a vision if you like - of the new society that must emerge in this island if we want to retain all the good that we have built in the past and move on to greater achievements. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.”
“The Central Manpower Base in Kallang will be open each day during this period from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. The Katong, Serangoon and Bukit Panjang District Offices will be open each day from 2 p.m. to 9 p.m. In the middle of May, medical examinations will take place and the final selection of who is to go into what Branch of National Service will be made in July. Enlistment notices informing young men in which Branch of National Service they will serve will be despatched as from the 11th of July. And National Service itself is scheduled to commence as from the 26th July this year. There are many complications in this exercise, as there are bound to be. I do not wish, to go into all of them. The Manpower Division of my Ministry has prepared a pamphlet which explains what those who are liable to National Service have to do. Five hundred members of the staff of the People's Association who work in the community centres have been briefed by the Ministry so as to enable them better to give guidance and answer questions about National Service. The booklet on National Service will be available at all community centres in the next few days. These pamphlets will also be distributed to schools. Any Association which wants copies of these pamphlets should apply to the Ministry of the Interior and Defence, Manpower Division, stating in what language or languages they wish to have them. At present, copies are available in English and Chinese. Copies in Malay and Tamil will be available shortly. Mr Speaker, Sir, with the passage of this legislation and its implementation, the Republic moves into a new era. Often in the past, people have listened to Ministers of the Government urging upon them the paramount need to build a rugged, closely-knit society.”
“It is my intention, when the training manuals on this subject have been drafted, to seek guidance of the Inter-Religious Council of the Republic, both on the content of moral instruction and on the method of implementation. I am sure that there is a substantial common ground among the great religions of the world, whose values, if imparted to our youth, will make them better men. Now a word about the mechanics of this exercise. The names, addresses, ages and other particulars of young men liable to national registration are known to the Government and, in fact, have been fed into the electronic computer in the Ministry of Finance. On the 17th of this month, i.e, in four days' time, pink cards which we call Registration Reminders will be sent by post to young men liable to registration. These cards will be sent to the last known address, but some of these cards may go astray in the rural areas there is no proper system in the numbering of houses, many of which were illegally constructed; and in the slums anything up to twenty families may share a house and letters often go astray. Therefore, if a young man does not get his pink reminder card in a week's time he should inquire at the nearest community centre. I may say, in passing, that not getting a reminder card is not a valid excuse for not registering. And all persons who do not register when they are liable to do so will, of course, be prosecuted. In the present exercise we are registering only those male youths horn between 1st January, 1949, and 30th June, 1949. There are approximately 9,000 of them. Those born after 30th June, 1949, will be registered in a later exercise this year. Sixteen days from 28th March to 18th April - have been set aside for registration and four registration centres will be in operation.”
“Sufficient numbers of such posts in Government service, the Statutory Boards and large private firms will be reserved for discharged National Servicemen. Legislation on this will be presented to Parliament shortly. We intend to select the pick of our youth, within each education grade, for the Army and there is no doubt that prospective employers will be very eager to obtain their services as they represent the best of our youth. Those not selected for the Army will be allocated to the People's Defence Force, the Vigilante Corps and the Special Constabulary. They will do part-time training during their off-work or off-study hours. This means that those who are now engaged in higher studies either in the Higher School Certificate classes or in the Universities will not have their studies upset. At the same time, it does not mean that by being posted now to the P.D.F., the Vigilante Corps or the Special Constabulary to do part-time training and work, they will not subsequently be called up for full-time military service on completion of their studies. There is need for quality in the Army, as in any other organisation, and the highly educated must do their duty along with the others. In all the four Branches of National Service - the full-time Army, the People's Defence Force, the Vigilante Corps and the Special Constabulary -National Servicemen will receive, in addition to technical training specific to their Branch, instruction in moral values. This will teach them what good citizenship means and explain to them the nature of their social responsibilities.”
“It is not a coincidence that sons of the British elite, as part of their classical education in the public schools, are taught not only Plato but also, among other works, "The Peloponnesian War" of Thucydides. Only in this way do you create a breed that can govern an empire. Because of our own historical past, ours is a society which is deficient in many qualities, excelling only in the ability to get on in life whatever the regime - Japanese, British or P.A.P. Some of the valuable and indispensable qualities such as social discipline and moral values have unfortunately not been instilled in our education system to the extent that one would have wished. The result is a generation of young people who are largely amoral. They are easy victims of all kinds of ideas, passions and fads - be they the subversive doctrines of the Communist underground or the seductions of Beatle music and Beatnik philosophy. Such aberrations in human conduct may be accepted with equanimity in large and wealthy societies. But when we are trying to survive in a tight situation, there is very little place for harmful or even meaningless activities. At best, these are irrelevant eccentricities; at worst, they lead the young into a world of fantasy and make them unfit for the strenuous exertions that may lie ahead. It is against the background of such considerations that our National Service scheme has been worked out. A minority of the young men will be selected for a two-year full-time stint in the Army. Those selected for promotion to the officer grade will do three years. At the end of their military service, they will be emplaced in civilian occupations appropriate to their ability and qualifications.”
“The nation-building aspect of defence will be more significant if its participation is spread over all strata of society. This is possible only with some kind of national service. If we were to depend only on a standing army of professionals, then we would get so many soldiers and no more. The civilians remain spectators outside the orbit of the defence forces except for the small number who take part as part-time soldiers. One important side to the nation-building process is that there are not many members of our monied and intellectual elite who have grasped the elementary point that their status and position and wealth can be justified and maintained only if they undertake a responsibility in the defence of the nation consistent with their position. In a society like Britain where class distinctions are strong and traditional, you will find that up to very recently it has been the ruling class, the landed aristocracy, who have supplied the military and naval commanders, with whose exploits every school-boy in our English language schools is doubtless familiar. The British ruling class has never abdicated its right to govern through unwillingness to bear arms on behalf of the nation. Ours, of course, is a different kind of society with many regrettable weaknesses. Our intelligentsia and wealthy citizens would do well to read that part of Plato's "Republic" dealing with the inevitable decline of oligarchies of rich men whose sons are spoilt by easy living and whose flabbiness becomes obvious to the citizens whom they govern, so that they, the citizens, eventually decide to take over power from them and deprive them both of their wealth and their positions.”
“By the same token, if small States can manage their affairs efficiently and can raise sufficient defence forces to deter others from risky adventures by making them costly, then they would add to the stability and security of the whole region. The survival of small States within their original territorial boundaries has today much greater prospects of success than one would have thought from a cursory view of the situation. For the two nuclear super powers apparently are in favour of freezing existing boundaries as one method of reducing the danger of nuclear war between themselves by eliminating any temptation to be involved in quarrels between other nation-states. Where a small State is strategically situated, as Singapore is, it is important that it should maintain adequate defence forces. It goes without saying that the real security which we want can be found, not by our unaided efforts alone, but in an alliance with others. In the long term, Singapore should work towards the establishment of some kind of regional defence arrangement, possibly within a larger international framework. In this kind of regional defence alliance, we are likely to be a more valuable partner and hence can exert more influence, if we can make a defence contribution of some significance, rather than if we were to be utterly dependent on the arms of other States. There is another aspect to our defence effort. This is a contribution it can make to nation-building. Nothing creates loyalty and national consciousness more speedily and more thoroughly than participation in defence and membership of the armed forces. This has been the experience of other countries; there is no reason why it will not hold true in Singapore.”
“Yet this has not prevented them from spending enormous sums of money in defence. The two nuclear super powers have found themselves paralysed in a balance of terror and yet both continue to devote enormous resources to defence. One cannot but regret all this - that the keenest scientific minds today are devoted to discovering and developing more effective methods of mass destruction rather than trying to bring about more human happiness and progress -- but that is the world as we find it today, and for small States like ours, we have to accept the position as it is, not as we would like it. Singapore is not the smallest of the independent States, nor is it the poorest. One of the unexpected developments of the post-war world has been the proliferation of small States consequent on the process if decolonisation. Especially in the last ten years, large numbers of new States, often with artificial boundaries, small populations and dubious economies, have come into existence. If their present position is uncertain, their future prospects are even more doubtful. Small States are likely to be a great source of trouble in this world if they cannot look after themselves. If the management of their domestic affairs is so bad as to invite civil war and disorder, there is always the risk that larger States may be tempted to intervene. Where this happens to a small State situated in a strategic area, as, for instance, South Vietnam, the great super powers may get mixed up and the risk arises of escalation to something more dangerous than a local conflict. Therefore, unstable, badly managed and poorly defended small States pose a threat to the security and peace of the world.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." I have the President's recommendation to proceed with the reading of the Bill. One of the difficulties confronting me as Minister of Defence is the novelty of my responsibility. There are no precedents to fall back upon. When one thinks of what elements should be taken into account in framing a meaningful defence policy for Singapore, one has to begin from first principles. A useful starting point is to ask oneself, why bother about defending Singapore at all? I am not being facetious in asking this question, for there are people, laymen as well as experts, who say that we should not. They tell you that the island is quite indefensible, and if there is a sustained major attack upon it, it is unlikely that, without major assistance from outside, Singapore can hold out. There are, however, excellent reasons why we should bother about defence. I believe that the people who hold the contrary view are mistaken. For the logical conclusion drawn from their premise must be that Singapore should revert to a colony or a satellite of whoever wishes to afford it protection. If you are in a completely vulnerable position, anyone disposed to do so can hold you to ransom and life for you will then become very tiresome. I consider it to be wrong to believe that there is nothing we can do or should do about defending ourselves, even though we cannot achieve complete invulnerability by our unaided efforts. In a sense, even the larger countries of the world today, other than the nuclear super powers, are indefensible. For instance, none of the European States can hope to survive a nuclear attack by the Soviet Union either singly or in combination.”
“Mr Speaker, I beg to move, That Parliament do now adjourn. Question proposed. ACQUISITION OF ALSAGOFF ESTATE IN GEYLANG BY GOVERNMENT”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for 1967, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.”
“But, of course, if they give nothing away, I agree that it is quite deplorable. If the Member has any concrete information, I suggest that he lay a complaint before the police so that the culprits can be apprehended and dealt with. 7.30 p.m.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I agree with a lot of what the hon. Member has said, particularly as regards the cultivation of national consciousness. This has to be done not only in the Defence Forces but I think throughout the entire population. So far as the Defence Forces are concerned, my Ministry is establishing an educational corps which will consist of officers and N.C.O.s whose duty would be to do just this kind of thing, to tell soldiers how to conduct themselves and what their duties and responsibilities are, so that they can fulfil their functions more effectively. On the implementation of the plan for civil service officials to do P.D.F. and army duties, this will be carried out as announced, that is, next year. All new employees in Government and statutory bodies will be called up to do this service. On children gambling, I do not know what the Member has in mind. Does he want the police to arrest them when they are found gambling? The police have been arresting children when they are engaged in gambling in public, as this is against the law. But I think the main responsibility lies with the parents to see that their children are brought up properly, that they do not gamble in public or, for that matter, anywhere else. The best deterrent is to whack the child on his bottom. I think leaders of opinion and Members of Parliament have a responsibility to help bring about this state of discipline among children. About hawkers' tikam-tikam, I do not know. When I was in school, I remember an ice-cream man doing this sort of thing. But you always get something. You do not lose. You either get a big portion or a small portion. So if hawkers are doing that, I do not know whether that is against the law.”
“That is the point. So there will be less classes at the Police Training School. Inche Mohd. Ariff(In Malay): I beg to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.”
“The hon. Member is quite wrong about his facts. The police intake is not on the increase, it has greatly decreased this year. Soon after we left Malaysia, there was a very substantial recruitment drive for the police force. In fact, the first intake after we became independent was the largest in history. Something like nearly 800 recruits were taken in in one draft. But since then, most of the police vacancies have been filled. The next intake for January will be just over 100. These teachers' allowances are not paid merely to people teaching the national language. They are also to provide instruction in various promotion tests, examinations for corporals, inspectors, sergeants and so on. One reason why the provision for next year is less than that for this year is that the sum allocated for this year has not been spent fully. We find that many policemen prefer to attend adult education classes rather than classes provided at the Police Training School. So as the demand is less, the supply will have to be accordingly adjusted.”
“I can give no assurances that it will not happen next year. In fact, I think it will happen next year. I see no merit in decorating the General Post Office building. It is not a singularly outstanding piece of architecture. The policy at the last National Day parade was to move away from the decoration of Government offices to the decoration of the town as a whole, particularly Chinatown both north and south of the river. So with a given sum of money and a fixed budget to operate on, we have to decide whether we want to brighten up the city, particularly the slum areas, North and South Bridge Roads, or whether we want to spend money on brightening up Government offices. Previous to the last National Day, the practice had been to spend large sums of money on decorating buildings with bunting, coloured bulbs, and so on. That was so even in the old colonial days. But I confess I cannot see any merit in that. I think it is better to brighten up the main streets and the main thoroughfares of the city where people live, so that everyone will be made more conscious of the importance of the occasion. After all, National Day is a holiday and people do not go to Government offices on that day because they are all closed. 7.15 p.m. The General Post Office was not the only Government building that was not decorated. All the Government buildings along Empress Place were not decorated. The reason for making this decision is that these places are not along the route of the march which took place on National Day.”
“As regards poor activity in Tampines, I do not think the reason is the absence of travelling allowances, because we have very active Vigilante Corps units in other places where travelling allowances are not paid. It could be that there is poor leadership in this unit. What should be done is to replace the leadership rather than to pay travelling allowances.”
“Sir, as regards a women's Vigilante Corps, some community centres have already formed their own women's Vigilante Corps and I see no harm in other community centres doing the same. But for the time being, so far as the training programme goes, we are concentrating on the men first. Maybe in a year or two when we have sufficient activities organised for the men, we may make a properly-organised effort to raise a women's Vigilante Corps. So the answer, in brief, is that if the management committees of community centres want to invite women members to join the Vigilante Corps, they can do so. The expenses and training must be borne by these management committees. The Member for Mountbatten has raised a number of points. As regards compensation, the compensation rules are in force. If the two cases which he has referred to the People's Association have been stuck, I think the fault may rest with these two applicants. In the first instance, they should not have submitted their applications to the People's Association. They should address their applications to the Vigilante Corps Headquarters. If the Member will give me further details, I will try to see what has gone wrong in this instance. It could be, of course, that they do not qualify for any compensation if the injuries sustained are very trivial in character. The other point is travelling allowances. I see no case for giving them travelling allowances. Vigilante Corps service is intended to be a voluntary service given by patriotic young men and women to the community. There is no case for travelling allowances because the duties of the Vigilante Corps are carried out very close to their homes, and all they have to do is to walk to their place of work.”
“Yes, I am coming to that. When a group of enterprising farmers tried this in Britain, there was, of course, a tremendous uproar among the respectable farmers who reared pigs on land. They said, "This is unfair competition." Presumably then it must be more economical and more competitive to raise pigs in this unnatural way in concrete buildings than to raise them in the natural way, i.e, on farm land. I think the Minister might get his officials to have a look at this idea. And if it is possible to build very cheap structures, much cheaper than, say, structures needed for housing human beings, then this may be one way of encouraging the growth of the animal husbandry industry. It may mean, of course, Government forking out money. But, as against that, if it is possible to save on land, then the saving in the cost of acquiring or buying land, the price of which will go up from year to year, can go into a fund which could be used for lending money to farmers to enable them to build this kind of structure. 6.12 p.m.”
“No. I am not saying it could be done in flats. It could be done in specially built structures. And since pigs and poultry are lighter than human beings, you can build a light and presumably less costly structure.”
“Some years ago in the United Kingdom an extraordinary development took place in agriculture, and that is the development of what are called "concrete farms". Some farmers of pigs - I think they were mainly concerned with pigs -decided that you could raise pigs in flats! After all, the rearing of a pig or for that matter a chicken, is really a process whereby you put into its mouth corn or what have you, and then you convert vegetable carbohydrates into animal protein. And that is what chickens and pigs are meant for! And you can do this in a building. In fact, even in Singapore, when they rear poultry by modern methods, they do not let the poultry run about the farm; they put them in cages, and pigs are kept in pig sties. [Interruption] No, no. No health hazards, because then you can arrange for automatic sprinklers and so on. You can put detergents, or whatever they are, at the right time and in the right place.”
“(Temporary Occupation Licence) for a fairly nominal payment of something like $5 or $2 a year sometimes. Of course, this is not the economic rent. It does not reflect the real value of land which the Government could get, say, from renting the land for other purposes. It is the cheapness of land which has somewhat distorted the picture and has not impressed upon farmers that land is very scarce. Supposing they have to pay something like $200 a month for an acre of land, which may be the market price for land, then I think they will be more careful about the use of land and will be able to raise very large flocks of birds or large numbers of pigs in small areas. So here we are. We are faced with a situation where land is limited by nature and, at the same time, there is a substantial demand for the use of land for raising poultry and pigs because it is a paying occupation. The Member for Bras Basah says that the solution would be to give more than two acres per farmer and asks Government not to limit the grant of resettlement land to two acres. It is all very well to say, "Let us be generous." But at whose expense? After all, the acreage on the island is limited and if you give more than two acres, then only a certain number of people will be able to get it and large numbers will have to be turned away without any land. So the idea of giving people larger grants of land may be all right in individual cases, but I think as a policy it is self-defeating. Now, I want to put forward for the consideration of the Minister one solution which was experimented with in the United Kingdom. I am not a farmer by profession or a gentleman farmer; so I do not know at all whether it will work here, but maybe his staff can work out the economics and the technical side of this idea.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I had not intended to enter into the debate on the subject until my interest was aroused by certain statements made by the Member for Bras Basah and the Member for Choa Chu Kang, among others. I think the ordinary citizens of Singapore do not realise that livestock farming is a considerable economic pursuit on this island, and that, far from importing poultry, eggs and pork, this City State of ours is a very substantial exporter of food - pigs, eggs and poultry - to surrounding countries. We have reached this rather unusual and surprising position because of certain advantages which we enjoy in livestock farming. Firstly, in the post-war years it was possible to control diseases and pests, particularly among poultry, by injections, especially anti-ranikhet injections. This enables large flocks of birds to be raised with small risk of substantial losses when the whole flock dies during an epidemic, which used to happen regularly before the war. In addition to this, Singapore has excellent communications and could, therefore, buy feeding stuffs like maize, fishmeal, and cod liver oil from the cheapest markets in the world. Cheap supplies combined with excellent banking and credit facilities have enabled our farmers to get feeding stuffs on very favourable terms to enable them to raise large flocks of poultry either for the table or as laying birds, as well as to raise large numbers of pigs. From the economic point of view, there is one rather ridiculous feature about the livestock industry in Singapore. This is the absurdly low prices at which farmers are able to rent or lease their land. A farmer can get, say, 5 or 10 acres of Crown land from Government on T.O.L.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, at present the number of posts in the establishment of policewomen is something like 245 - in that order of magnitude - I have not got the actual figure. Most of these posts are filled. There are only a few vacancies, possibly about half a dozen. These will be filled in the normal course of work. EAST EUROPEAN COMMUNIST COUNTRIES (Setting up of Embassies or Trade Representations) 4. Mr Chow Chiok Hock asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether the Government intends to set up embassies or trade representations in East European Communist Countries.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, it is the Government's policy that women should share in the task of safeguarding the security of our young Republic. They take a rightful place in the ranks of both the Police and the Army. The number of policewomen required is, however, limited by the fact that in the field of criminal activity, particularly where violence is used, women have not yet achieved equality with men. Therefore, it is necessary to employ more policemen than policewomen. Similarly, in the Army, women cannot be used as combat troops, but they are usefully engaged in clerical, nursing and communications work. Madam Chan Choy Siong (Delta)(In Mandarin): Sir, can I supplement my question? If there are posts at present which need women to come forward to serve the country, especially posts in the Police Force, will the Minister consider providing women with these facilities? According to him, certain posts are not quite suitable for women, but I understand that in the Police Force, certain posts are quite suitable for women. Will he consider providing better facilities for women to join the Police Force?”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, the answer to both parts of the question is "No". No improvement to the building will avoid flooding during heavy rains. The People's Association is considering building a community centre elsewhere in the constituency. WOMEN IN SINGAPORE POLICE FORCE 3. Madam Chan Choy Siong asked the Minister of Defence whether it is Government policy that women could and should also share in the task of safeguarding the security of our young Republic and whether he will take immediate steps to create more opportunities for them to serve in the Police Force.”
“The presence of troops from other countries in Singapore is regulated by defence treaty, defence agreement and such types of legal document. So far as British military forces are concerned, their position is governed by Article 13 or clause 13 of the Bill to amend the Constitution of Malaysia which was passed in the Malaysian Parliament. This provided for the continuation of treaties, agreements, conventions entered into before separation between the Government of Malaysia and other countries. In other words, until they are expressly re-negotiated, then they continue to remain in force. Therefore, the defence agreement between the Malayan Government and the British Government governing British troops in this area will continue in force until it is re-negotiated by us, presumably some time this year. So the position of the British Army, Air Force and Navy is sanctioned under this agreement. As regards the Malaysian troops, although we have not entered into a treaty on external defence provided for in Article V, and, therefore, strictly speaking, none of them have any right to be here, nevertheless, it was agreed that such a treaty would be entered into to provide for the presence of some of their troops and the use of some of the bases. So those units and those bases which come within the ambit of Article V (3) are here quite correctly; that is, it is within the constitutional rights of both Governments to allow the continued presence of such troops. The point I was making is that this particular Battalion staying in this particular camp does not come under the provisions of Article V (3) or any other article of the separation agreement. IMMIGRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL Order for Second Reading read. 3.58 p.m.”
“The money to build this Camp was voted for by this Assembly out of the funds of this Government and meant for the use of our troops.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, it is not, of course, for me to make a defence on behalf of the Malaysian Government. But I do wish Members to remember that they are engaged in defending their territories against military aggression from Indonesia. They are in the process of expanding their defence forces both on land, sea and air, and they are having an extremely difficult time. So the point is this; because of their preoccupation in these matters, they may not have sufficient time or sufficient energy to deal with our request as expeditiously as they should have. At the same time, four to five months have passed since we raised the question and I do wish that we can see some finality in it. I am as anxious as, indeed more anxious than, the hon. Member in getting back our ships, our lorries, our signals equipment and other things which are due back to us.”
“Of course, this would have to be taken in a number of steps. The first to be taken is, I think, by the British Government. They have to decide whether they want to run down their bases. At this present moment, I believe a debate is going on in the British Parliament on the White Paper on Defence. So when the British Government have made up their minds, no doubt in the course of this year, approaches will be made to us and to the Malaysian Government to discuss, negotiate, and conclude appropriate defence agreements between ourselves. Whether it will be two separate agreements -between Britain and Singapore and between Britain and Malaysia - or whether it will go into one combined defence agreement, these are matters on which we shall decide at the proper moment when the issues become clearer. I do not think I want to anticipate these issues now.”
“Mr Speaker, discussions at Staff level already took place yesterday. They have not been as fruitful and productive as I wish them to be, but we are very anxious to have this matter settled satisfactorily and as quickly as possible. I entirely share the feelings of the hon. Member that it is a most regrettable matter that our troops on their return from Borneo have to continue to live under very distasteful conditions. Mr Ng Kah Ting: Mr Speaker, Sir, I hope our Minister of Defence will answer this question. When will negotiations for a defence treaty or treaties commence? Will the treaty or treaties be tripartite or bi-lateral?”
“Sir, we are trying to settle this issue with the Malaysian Government by discussion, by reason, and by logic. I do not think I am being assisted in this task by the use of strong words by the hon. Member. However strongly he may feel about this matter, I do implore him to bear in mind the wider implications of this subject. Of course, one admires the courageous attitude he has taken in this matter, and no doubt his recent military training may have something to do with it.”
“I can say quite clearly and categorically that there is no secret agreement or understanding other than the open agreement published and presented to this House. Mr Ho See Beng rose -”
“For instance, the main naval base of the Malaysian Navy is in Woodlands, that is, in Singapore, and the Malaysian Government, therefore, has the right to continue to maintain this base and use it in whatever manner it thinks necessary for the external defence of Malaysia. Similarly, there are other units with which I need not burden the House. The point that I am making is that this agreement extends the right to the Government of Malaysia to use these bases and not to establish new ones or occupy them with new troops. It is not, in my opinion, correct for the Malaysian Government to invoke this particular Article to support the continued stay of the Malaysian Infantry Battalion in Camp Temasek. Should it want to station its battalion here for whatever purposes it has in mind, this is something which we are always willing to discuss with it and reach an amicable settlement. But it is not correct to say that the agreement gives it the right to do so.”
“Mr Speaker, Sir, I thought I talked at length on this subject in my statement. But in the event the hon. Member had not understood everything that I said, I think it is best if I read the relevant sections of the separation agreement. Now, under Article V, there are four sections. I think I had better read the whole of Article V because this is the one that deals with Defence. 'Article V The parties hereto will enter into a treaty on external defence and mutual assistance providing that - (1) the parties hereto will establish a joint defence council for purposes of external defence and mutual assistance; (2) the Government of Malaysia will afford to the Government of Singapore such assistance as may be considered reasonable and adequate for external defence, and in consideration thereof the Government of Singapore will contribute from its own armed forces such units thereof as may be considered reasonable and adequate for such defence; (3) the Government of Singapore will afford to the Government of Malaysia the right to continue and maintain the bases and other facilities used by its military forces within Singapore and will permit the Government of Malaysia to make such use of these bases and facilities as the Government of Malaysia may consider necessary for the purpose of external defence; (4) each party will undertake not to enter into any treaty or agreement with a foreign country which may be detrimental to the independence and defence of the territory of the other party.' Now, paragraph (3) of Article V is the most relevant one. Under this the Malaysian Government will have the right to continue and maintain its bases. The Malaysian Government does maintain a number of bases and military establishments in Singapore.”
“The S.I.R. returned to Singapore in batches, beginning with the first week of February. As I said in my statement, the advance party found accommodation at Camp Temasek. But as later groups came in, there was no more space at Camp Temasek and they have had to be accommodated under canvas in Farrer Park.”
“Could the hon. Member please ask one question at a time? I have lost count of all these questions!”
“On the other hand, if the Malaysian Government were to insist on having its own way regardless of the legality of its actions in international law, then the whole issue will acquire wider implications and it may eventually become necessary for us, in order to have our sovereignty in these matters recognised and respected, to have recourse to appropriate international tribunals. I am certain that it is not the desire of the Malaysian Government to bring matters to such a pass, and that they are as prepared as we are to arrive at a mutually satisfactory solution of all outstanding issues. On our part, we have acted with the utmost circumspection, and indeed the public revelation of the disagreement over the Malaysian Infantry Battalion in Singapore was not made by the Singapore Government but by the Malaysian Prime Minister. Inche Mahmud Awang (Kampong Kapor) rose -”
“Both Malaysia and Singapore do not have adequate defence forces at their command to deter aggression from their larger neighbours, nor are they able successfully to fend off any major assault that may be mounted upon us. So for some time, until our defence forces are substantially increased, we shall have to depend on the military shield provided by our Commonwealth Allies. But our Commonwealth Allies will be willing to provide us with this shield only if they find their international political position a tenable one and the domestic scene stable enough for their defence effort to be effective. If the Governments of Singapore and Malaysia are unable effectively to co-operate in their common defence effort, this must in turn adversely affect the efficacy of the defence arrangements with Britain, Australia and New Zealand who are expending large sums of money and men in retaining their military commitments in this region. So co-operate we must, but this co-operation must be as between two sovereign States and not as between big brother and his satellite. It is therefore necessary that the Malaysian Government should revise its attitude towards the Singapore Government in defence matters. Peremptory requests, stone-walling and obviously dilatory and evasive tactics in dealing with legitimate requests and enquiries from us can only lead to increasing exasperation. If the Malaysian Government is prepared to accept Singapore both in word and in deed as an equal partner in the defence arrangements of the whole region, then I do not see that there is any problem that cannot be resolved to our mutual satisfaction.”
“Similarly, there are large numbers of Malaysian citizens in the Singapore army. Attempts to have this matter sorted out so that citizens may return to their own armies, have so far made very little headway. However, a message has been received from Kuala Lumpur recently that suggests that there is hope that this vexatious issue will be settled shortly. Not only is the army transport and camp accommodation taken over by Malaysian units, but a large part of our signals equipment and personnel have also been taken over by them. There are 60 officers and men of the Singapore Armed Forces posted to the Fourth Malaysian Infantry Brigade. It was agreed in November last year that these officers and men and their equipment should return to Singapore units in a phased programme. Here again, no progress has been made to carry out this phased programme, with the result that the operational efficiency of our Battalions in carrying out internal security functions is reduced. Again, armoured cars, equipment and personnel belonging to Singapore were attached during Malaysia to the Federation First Independent Reconnaisance Regiment and all our attempts to unscramble this have met with no success. As regards our Navy, the story is even more extraordinary. Before we joined Malaysia, we had a naval ship, the renowned "Panglima". This ship has disappeared under Malaysian Command, and attempts even to find its location have not met with any success. Sir, where do we go from here? It is important that we should never lose grasp of the proper perspective of the fundamentals of our defence policy.”
“, having served a gruelling campaign in the jungles of Sabah in the defence of Malaysia, surely deserve better treatment on their return to Singapore than to find that their camp has been occupied by Malaysian troops. The second observation is that a disagreement of such a nature could have arisen in the way it did is symptomatic of a deeper malaise in the relations between the two Governments on defence matters. This issue is but one of the many outstanding issues which had arisen between us. I do not wish to overburden the House with the minutiae of the many points of unresolved disputes arising between the Ministries of Defence in Singapore and Kuala Lumpur, but an outline of some of the matters may be illuminating. The Second Battalion, S.I.R., has not only been deprived of its camp accommodation, but also of the greater part of its Battalion transport. A search party is now in Batu Gajah to try to collect the Battalion's transport which has found its way there. So far their efforts to locate their trucks, jeeps, landrovers and other vehicles have met with only limited success. Nor is the First Battalion of the S.I.R. in a better position. Much of its transport had been taken over by the Fourth Malaysian Infantry Brigade Headquarters during the time when Singapore was in Malaysia. In spite of repeated requests over the last four or five months for the return of the transport to the First Battalion, S.I.R., both the trucks and the drivers still remain with the Fourth Malaysian Infantry Brigade, who maintain that until they receive instructions from Kuala Lumpur, they are unable to make any move. On Singapore Day, there were large numbers of Singapore army personnel, some three hundred in number, posted in various units of the Malaysian army.”